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Old 17-12-2002, 08:46:17   #1
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LoTR: The Two Towers

Markus, all I can say is.... fuckin' awesome. Better than the first, bigtime.

Best movie of the year. Won't say more so as not to spoil anything for anyone, but go see it. Wow!

Oh yeah, one thing... gotta suck to get your ass kicked and stomped on by a tree.

A MightyTree at that. (You'll know.)
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Old 17-12-2002, 08:49:27   #2
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I wondered how your visit to your friend's went. Sounds like a great night out then!
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Old 17-12-2002, 08:49:34   #3
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That's what they say in the music forum!
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Old 17-12-2002, 08:57:34   #4
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Just got home about 3 am or so... maybe 3:30. Started the movie at about 11:30. Over by 2:40 am. Excellent beginning trailers as well. (Previews of upcoming fliks for those that may not know)

My middle daughter came to the show as well. It was great.
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Old 17-12-2002, 09:10:56   #5
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I ordered tickets for this online, but now I can't recall what time I ordered them for....

I know it's Wednesday. I'm not a total moron.

Usually.
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Old 17-12-2002, 09:17:18   #6
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Was this in the film forum?
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Old 17-12-2002, 09:23:34   #7
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No. :-P~~
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Old 17-12-2002, 09:25:46   #8
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There are other forums?
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Old 17-12-2002, 09:31:10   #9
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Nah... he's just pulling our legs.
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Old 17-12-2002, 09:34:01   #10
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I'm going to see it on Sunday.
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Old 17-12-2002, 09:53:25   #11
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I'm going to see it after winter break, because the theatre back home is terrible.

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Old 17-12-2002, 09:58:51   #12
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So is the film forum
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Old 17-12-2002, 10:11:10   #13
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Originally posted by Funkodrom
I'm going to see it on Sunday.
Me too. See you there!

I did watch the Extended DVD edit of Fellowship of the Ring last weekend and it was fantastic. Looking forward to TTT.
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Old 17-12-2002, 13:43:43   #14
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Gonna see it tonight!
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Old 17-12-2002, 14:35:01   #15
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Tonight's show sold out on Friday

I'm getting too slow.

Edit: that would be tomorrow's show.
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Old 17-12-2002, 15:40:03   #16
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Seeing it tommorrow. Eeeep
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Old 17-12-2002, 15:50:35   #17
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:-p~~
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Old 17-12-2002, 16:59:29   #18
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You get more like OW every year. :-p~~
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Old 17-12-2002, 18:19:31   #19
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Seeing it Thursday. My cynicism is melting away in the face of it, being, well, the Lord of the Rings. But I will be strong! I will not allow myself to be disappointed again.
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Old 17-12-2002, 20:26:15   #20
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Originally posted by MDA
You get more like OW every year. :-p~~
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Old 18-12-2002, 03:51:40   #21
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Ok, I've just come back from the midnight premiere ...

Like Tom I'm not going to say much for now. Basically I think it was a major disappointment. This movie is one major fuckup ... aimless, chaotic, that's how one of my friends described it fittingly. It has some good moments, but also LOTS of bad ones, cheesy scenes, bad dialogue, bad acting and waaaaay too much kitsch.

I'm going to watch the English version of it some time in the next couple of days. Maybe it'll change my opinion somewhat ... although I doubt the translation played a big role in my disappointment.

This movie is one class worse than FotR IMHO.
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Old 18-12-2002, 05:26:28   #22
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I for one am boycotting the movie, since it's obviously trying to cash in on the September 11th tragedy. George Lucas is such an insensitive pigfucker for so callously trying to cash in on human suffering.
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Old 18-12-2002, 06:12:37   #23
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Quote:
You get more like OW every year.
You have no idea how much that hurts him.

Markus, sorry you were disappointed. That sucks. For me, I thought all the fighting and action were great. But I tend to like mindless random mayhem death and destruction in movies. Makes it easy to not have to think. ( I do too much of that in reality. I like to escape with my entertainment)

Like I said, I hate it for you to feel it was a major drag to see this movie. Maybe next years' finale will make up for it.
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Old 18-12-2002, 11:16:12   #24
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MT... do you remeber Korn469 from owo and ACOL? He just did a semi review in a thread I started on LOTR on that incredibly nerdy civ site. Basically it is how I viewed it as well.

I think I'll see it again this weekend. For free. :-P~~

Helm's Deep battle was too frickin' cool ... .
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Old 18-12-2002, 11:44:58   #25
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Mt, although you have just shattered my dreams of a better second film, I will ask you one question: do you normally like the dubbed version of a film? I can’t stand them. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon becomes a lot worse when dubbed.
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Old 18-12-2002, 11:51:15   #26
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I hate dubbed films. Even if you don't understand the language being spoken by the original actor, you still pick up alot of their mannerisms and acting effort through their voice. Dubbed voice-overs just don't ever replicate it.
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Old 18-12-2002, 14:56:38   #27
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Sean:

I usually only start to dislike the dubbed version of a movie once I've seen the original. As I said, the English version of TTT may improve the movie for me, but I doubt it will be a big improvement. It just has too many flaws that can't be related to the translation. The music was horrible BTW.

Tom:

I've just read Korn's review, and he likes the movie because the pacing is good and it's funny and lighthearted. I say the movie was hectic, confusing and was badly missing a thread. One of my friends who hadn't read the book said he couldn't follow the movie at all. The movie was certainly funny and lighthearted ... in fact it was way too funny, and some of the jokes were just really lame. I'm sorry but humor and this kind of film just don't fit well together ... a lot of the jokes seemed really 'forced'. Also, in the books Gimli doesn't have a single funny line, in the movie he doesn't have a single serious one. He's the court jester of the movie and that just really SUCKS.

You say you like mindless mayhem, death and destruction in movies. Well, I have no problem with that either. In fact I think the fight sequences were the best parts of the movie because hardly anybody had to chance to deliver yet another cheesy, kitschy line. BUT even in the action scenes there were a lot of things that were just highly unrealistic and exaggerated and made you go .

I'm not going to begin talking about the changes made from the book. Let's just say that 90% of them were just unbelievably stupid and didn't make sense at all.

So what was good about the movie in my eyes:

- the Ents
- Gollum, with one exception
- Brad Dourif as Wormtongue was GREAT
- Eomer was well-acted
- Helm's Deep was worse than I expected it, but still good

Can't think of more now ...

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Old 18-12-2002, 16:09:16   #28
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You really didn't like it then?
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Old 18-12-2002, 16:35:26   #29
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Own goal.

No, I really meant what I posted.
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Old 18-12-2002, 17:02:22   #30
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So, I don’t like FotR that much, Mightytree hates TTT…Funky’s turn for the third?
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Old 18-12-2002, 17:30:02   #31
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I don't really have much hope for the third part. Jackson described it as even more 'epic' than TTT ... and what that means I don't really want to imagine, having seen that kitsch yesterday. On the other hand I didn't really think that there'd be such a dramatic difference in terms of quality between the movies, since all parts were shot in one go. Maybe I'll be pleasently surprised by the third ... and maybe it'll also help that I won't have high expectations then.
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Old 19-12-2002, 01:11:07   #32
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Saw it twice ( - don't ask...) today (*checks time*), yesterday...
I preferred the first one. The book and the film both manage to bore me with Frodo/Sam/Gollum powerplay and whinging about the ring. Which I guess proves the film lives up to the book; but it doesn't entertain. And the way the three strorylines were interlinked came close to being annoying at some points. I wanted to follow the battle, and kept being whisked off to see some big-ass treeherd (not their best CG rendition IMO) going "Hummm, Hooom".

I was surprised that Rohan was portrayed as quite so desolate, it's meant to be farmable at least...

Oh, and having read the book last night/this morning, I can confirm the plot changes. Not as major perhaps as missing Tom B out, or introducing a random Arwen scene as in FOTR, but certainly enough to be annoying, as they seemed to do little to advance the story any more than Tolkien's version would have done.

But it wasn't bad. Gandalf's 'death' and return were done well, Helm's Deep was great, though the battle did not follow Tolkien's script, and some elves came in to help for some reason. The Nazgul are awesome. The last march of the ents was done well, and the journey across the dead marshes. Gollum looks good, despite his over-schitzophrenic personality.
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Old 19-12-2002, 01:42:43   #33
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Oh, and having read the book last night/this morning, I can confirm the plot changes. Not as major perhaps as missing Tom B out, or introducing a random Arwen scene as in FOTR, ...
There were lots and lots of major plot changes, also including a random Arwen scene. That Arwen part was the biggest catastrophe of them all. I didn't really mind her in FotR, but now I'm beginning to think that Jackson should have left her out of the movies, just like it is in the books. He apparently never had the idea of just skipping the Aragorn/Arwen wedding in the end instead of inventing a whole lot of stupid stuff extra for her. That Arwen scene in TTT is just super misplaced.

Quote:
... but certainly enough to be annoying, as they seemed to do little to advance the story any more than Tolkien's version would have done.
That's exactly the point. Most of the changes in FotR were quite reasonable ... but what happens in TTT is mostly just incredibly stupid and senseless.

Quote:
But it wasn't bad. Gandalf's 'death' and return were done well, Helm's Deep was great, though the battle did not follow Tolkien's script, and some elves came in to help for some reason. The Nazgul are awesome. The last march of the ents was done well, and the journey across the dead marshes. Gollum looks good, despite his over-schitzophrenic personality.
Gandalf's death was done quite well, I agree. But for the most part that was because it was an action scene and nobody really had to say or act anything. His return scene was just really bad. Helm's Deep was good and so were the Nazgul and the Ents (but as usual only because of the effects and action, acting and dialogue were awful in all of that). The journey through the marshes was ok I guess ... could've been better and was way too short. Gollum was very good almost every time ... but his schizophrenia really started to get on my nerves at a certain point.
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Old 19-12-2002, 06:00:49   #34
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I just found a very nice post concerning TTT on the Minas Tirith forums by someone called Gandalf the White. Sums up perfectly what I thought about it, except that I could without a doubt add lots more stuff that I disliked. Here it is:

Quote:
I saw it last night at the midnight showing, and I was thoroughly dissapointed. Faramir has been my little hero Tolkien character ever since I read the trilogy, and PJ removed every quality from him that made him Faramir.

I loved the destruction of Isengard and the Ents, though I would rather have seen more Ents using their own hands to tear down stuff rather than chucking rocks everywhere.

Balrog flashback was kinda cool, but when they showed Gandalf dying on the mountaintop, I think they should have left out that whole space-travel looking part. It was just a bit out of place.

Dead Marshes were kind of cool, but they could have left out Frodo's perspective when he fell in. That whole thing was just weird...

The Legolas/Gimli relationship building was wonderful, and the butchering of Gimli's character was disgusting.

Gollum was done quite well, especially his voice... The part where he was arguing with himself was quite interesting, but very confusing to a normal viewer.

Elves at Helm's Deep was the second worst change in the movie. The whole point of Helm's Deep is that it's always been held by Men, so when hundreds of elves suddenly arrive, that whole idea is destroyed. There should have been more actual soldiers at Helm's Deep, not just a bunch of villagers with weapons.

Was quite glad when Haldir died... I clapped...

There were a few too many times where they give you the impression that someone is dead, and then POOF! They're alive!

Aragorn's dreams were crap, and his little flashbacks that were saying that he is no longer "with" Arwen were quite stupid.

Legolas's stunts got a little too fancy for me... Got very angry at stupid audience who clapped every freakin time he did something.

Theoden was kind of an idiot, but I actually DO see why they did that. Aragorn did most of the leading at Helm's Deep, which was kind of weird, but good because it shows his skills as a leader of men.

I will probably see it another time or two, but only because I want to try and enjoy the movie, but I will never be able to forgive PJ for his violation/rape/destruction/molesting of Faramir.
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Old 19-12-2002, 07:35:12   #35
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Saw it today.

The first half was pretty much perfect, or as close as you can hope for in the movie. There's quite a lot that would have benefited greatly from being extended just a bit, like, say, the fight between the Orcs and Uruk-hai over the fate of the hobbits.

I have to agree with the commentary about faramir being an appalling rewrite. The less said there the better, but it's certainly the worst move in two parts we've had so far - even more than Arwen and Frodo at the ford after the river has washed the dark riders away.

Elves at Helms deep is neither here nor there. Haldir was a lot better in this movie than in the FotR. I do have to agree the the mighty horse lords looked a bit understrength at Helm's deep - too few warriors and too many tradesmen. How, with those numbers, are they supposed to come to the aid of Gondor?

The Ents were plain fantastic. So was the Black Gate and most of the stuff at Isenguard.

Towards the ending a couple of things broke my suspension of disbelief, however. The five horses charging out of helms deep through dozens of Orcs without slowing at all, and then the other 500 horses charging down the near 1/1 gradient shale bank (into an army of pikes no less!). Additionally, the siege doesn't seem to FEEL right, especially with an army of 10000 Orcs involved. When the walls are breached, it really looks like the whole game is up for the defenders, but in fact only maybe a couple of hundred orcs even seem to notice there's now a gap in the walls and they should do something about charging through. Mass infantry warfare is supposed to be something like a looser version of a rugby scrum, where the sheer weight of numbers pushing in can overcome any opponent, however skillful. Instead, you get the impression that Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas could hold any gap by themselves indefinitely.

The fight scenes during the siege are often very chaotic, with clips spliced together so fast it's often hard to tell what's happening because there's too much blurred movement/camera movement. A huge amount of extension would be of benefit here. Additionally, there are no obvious quality bad-guys in this movie - just LOTS of Orcs. If you liked the Cave Troll or the Baelrog from the first one, you'll be a bit disappointed here. In many ways, this is the main problem with TTT - heroes are measured against the foes they face, and here the foes are all pretty much random cannon fodder instead of any challenging opposition.

Gandalf the White is a twat.

Neither of the Wizards' performances, actually, are a patch on their work in the first movie. The continuation of Gandalf's fight with the Baelrog is kinda humdrum, once again, there wasn't enough time spent on establishing the situation and it wound up being 10 seconds of quick camera changes (but what seemed like hours of falling down...) Saruman just fails to look threatening at all during the whole movie.

But the worst part of all, IMO, is right before the start of the siege, where Aragorn is supposed to give a big tough speech to the Orcs and their commander replies in kind. If ever there was an oppotunity to build him up into a potential king of men, this was it. Instead: Nothing. Some old idiot fires an arrow, hits an Orc, the Uruk-hai army gets offended and all of a sudden the battle starts. What the fuck kind of rewrite is that?!?

It's a bit hard to judge whether this movie is better, the same, or worse than the original. As of first viewing, I would say it is worse (like the second book isn't as good as the first one), but then I've had the DVD and then the extended DVD of FotR to watch and go over a dozen times, and the good bits have grown on me while the bad bits have receded. I also had similar misgivings about the first movie the first time I watched it - most of which had evapourated by the time I had seen it for the third time in the cinemas (Most - the bit at the ford still urks me greatly for its idiot soppyness and being completely unnecessary).

But in general this movie follows the style of the first - the bits that stay true to the book are generally great, the rewrites are generally crap (sometimes shockingly so, but occasionally sometimes not crap at all), and it's still by far the best thing you are likely to see all summer - if you like this kind of thing.
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Old 19-12-2002, 09:00:47   #36
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Actually the:

"Oh my god, you killed Faramir!"

"You Bastards!"

Sentiment seems to be all over the internet at the moment.

Aeowyn's never going to fall for a wanker like that...
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Old 19-12-2002, 09:27:23   #37
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The second book isn't as good as the first one?

Fellowship of the Ring is a trial by boredom until you get to all the good stuff in the second two books. OK exaggeration, but twice I've started reading and not made it through Fellowship but whenever I do I always get to the end of the trilogy.
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Old 19-12-2002, 10:42:33   #38
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In my opinion, Mike. Perhaps only in, too. But still.
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Old 19-12-2002, 10:51:21   #39
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I was pleasantly surprised with FotR 'cause they managed to make that book interesting, and even made it so that watching more of the boring stuff from the book, like hobbiton, in the SE was more interesting!
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Old 19-12-2002, 10:54:48   #40
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What's good about Fellowship?

There's a good bit when they are escaping the black rider. All the rest is boring filler, especially Tom Fucking Bombadil.

Actually I don't hate it that much, I'm just in a funny mood today.
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Old 19-12-2002, 11:18:49   #41
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good post shining, I don't agree with all but it's broadly what I feel

i think I was unable to really enjoy TTT on this first viewing because I was too busy comparing the movie with my memories of the book, and with my expectations. A second and third viewing will clarify matters.

despite my mild disapointmnt, I already can't wait for the longer dvd version
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Old 19-12-2002, 11:26:02   #42
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Old 19-12-2002, 11:31:55   #43
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Tom Bombadier is worth skipping, true. That just didn't work.

As for the rest, I really liked hobbiton, the long country walk, Rivendell, especially Moria, especially Lothlorian, and then the breaking is quite good too. In the Two Towers, you get a feeling that Tolkien, while he can describe a walk through the country in agonisingly precise detail, has no idea where to start when it comes to siege warfare. Helms deep is confusing to say the least and the bit with Faramir just seemed a bit odd for the hobbits when they are supposed to be deep into enemy territory.
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Old 19-12-2002, 12:01:57   #44
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Rivendell = gay.

Can't remember most of the story.
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Old 19-12-2002, 12:11:36   #45
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There are so many people who are disappointed in the movies because the movies are not the book that I've made a vow not to reread the books until RotK is out.

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Or to take arms against a sea of bitch-ass motherfuckers
And by opposing fuck them up?

-- Samuel L. Jackson as Hamlet
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Old 19-12-2002, 12:21:14   #46
Shining1
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Wise.
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Old 19-12-2002, 12:28:49   #47
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…it's still by far the best thing you are likely to see all summer - if you like this kind of thing.
Bloody southern hemispherers.
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Old 19-12-2002, 12:31:32   #48
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There are so many people who are disappointed in the movies because the movies are not the book that I've made a vow not to reread the books until RotK is out.

SP
That's ridiculous though, they were never going to be the books and if he'd tried to make them exactly the same as the book they'd have been horrible horrible films.
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Old 19-12-2002, 12:37:26   #49
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It’s weird, thinking about going to see this. In a way it’s like when England are in a sporting tournament and I’ve got head versus heart, head saying they might do quite well but not win it, heart saying of course we’ll win. Even worse is that I didn’t like Fellowship as much as you lot, so while there is the possibility I’ll be less disappointed, there’s also the possibility I’ll think it’s an actively bad film.
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Old 19-12-2002, 12:39:52   #50
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It's not important like football, it's only a film. Just go and enjoy it. If you don't, there's nothing you can do about it so just don't worry about it.
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