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Old 07-11-2002, 17:26:37   #151
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"The bladder" as categorical archetype in the collective singular, of course.

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Old 07-11-2002, 17:28:54   #152
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I thought you might be refering to the "Black Adder".
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Old 07-11-2002, 17:32:35   #153
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Old 07-11-2002, 17:35:30   #154
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If that's your position on the matter.
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Old 07-11-2002, 17:40:30   #155
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It is on Black Matter.
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Old 07-11-2002, 17:41:54   #156
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Dark matter, get your PC shwerve on.
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Old 07-11-2002, 17:43:52   #157
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Sorry. Dark matter.
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Old 07-11-2002, 17:50:07   #158
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That's better, now don't let it happen again.
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Old 07-11-2002, 18:08:28   #159
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Originally posted by Roland
So Chris, we're back to some happy little flaming ?
Saying your full of shit isn't flaming, it's fact.

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Oh poor thing.
See?
Never an answer.

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Let's go through it quickly:

Economy: You can't even tell if the unemplyoment rate is falling or rising. Really want to debate economcis ?
Sure.
I worked on the trading floor of NYSE for three years, in my current profession we only deal with fincial firms, and my bro still does work there, for 25 years now, currently for Goldman Sachs.
I'll bet I know TEN times you do about how the stock market is really run in the US anyday.

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With maybe one significant guy. But face it, little progress.
It is you that needs to "face it", dear boy.
As usual, you can't back it up.
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And I'm still curious about the whole islamist network in the US. Very little on that front....
So far, there are 12 suspects of possible cells, but it's very difficult to probe because US law does not permit survalence of Mosques or other religious meeting places.
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AQ pattern. That point has merit if it still holds one year from now.
Typical stonewall answer by you.
No attack, therefore they are mearly setting up the next one.
Sorry, doesn't hold water.

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Mexico had the same reservations, and France pretty much got what it wanted. And it seems you are completely incapable of grasping a broader picture of US relations.
It actually seems you are incapble of viewing events OUTSIDE a Eurocentrict worldview, IE "we are against it, everyone therefore is".
Sorry, the world doesn't work that way.

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Don't blame me for your reading comprehension problem.
Another evasion.
You really have no substance, do you?

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Oh come on. You said "greatest Pres since Truman" or something like that, I said "total disaster". We're even on that. If I have to be fully objective I'd have to rate individual policies. Like say a D on foreign policy, nothing on economic policy (tough to rate a non-existing policy), a clear F on dealing with the corporate problems, F for long term fiscal, C for short term fiscal.... etc.
Better, you actually provide an opinion here.
Let's look at those grades, shall we?
D on foreign policy?
Bush was able to secure international support for Afghanistan, and is continuing to gather support for Iraq.
Surely you don't claim that outside of France and possibly Russia, any other security council member will attempt to block the current resolution?
A "C+" would be a more accurate grade.
Let's talk about his economics, he has put forth a package, but it was mired in the senate, where it has languished for over a year, that is hardly Bush's fault.
Do you deny that the US economy started to fall in the last months of Clinton's administration, and that Bush was left 'holding the bag" so to speak?
Since he has been so far unable to move here, incomplete is warrented.
An "F" on corporate problems?
Dead wrong here, Bush intructed the Attorney General to make the CEOs be held completely responcible, there has been no attempt to let anyone off the hook through illeagal means.
A "B" would be far more accurate.
As for long and short term fiscal planning, you yourself claimed he had no plan, how can he have a "C" and "F" when you have seen no plan you can critize?
Could it be your just letting your dislike of Bush rule your judgement here?
Very likely.

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Next time I'll throw a "you're anti-french full of shit never back it up" tantrum when you go french-bashing.
I rarely bother with French bashing, I hold most of the European contenent outside of Britain in equal contempt.
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Old 07-11-2002, 18:17:02   #160
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Look Chris it is the usual logic problem with you.

"AQ pattern. That point has merit if it still holds one year from now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Typical stonewall answer by you.
No attack, therefore they are mearly setting up the next one.
Sorry, doesn't hold water."

What my statement says is that "no attack for 1 year in US" is insufficient to judge whether they are inoperational or just setting up the next one. As you do not get such nuances...

"As for long and short term fiscal planning, you yourself claimed he had no plan, how can he have a "C" and "F" when you have seen no plan you can critize?"

I said no economic policy. There is inevitably a fiscal policy cause usually there is a budget every year. Another one of your snafus.

"my bro still does work there, for 25 years now, currently for Goldman Sachs"

Ouch.
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Old 07-11-2002, 18:25:01   #161
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Originally posted by Roland
Look Chris it is the usual logic problem with you.
Not at all, you always post on the assumption you know more then the next guy, and as becomes apparent rather quiclly, outside the law, you don't.

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What my statement says is that "no attack for 1 year in US" is insufficient to judge whether they are inoperational or just setting up the next one. As you do not get such nuances...
Yet another stonewall responce.
The last few attacks had the advantage of firm fincial backing and solid protected bases in Afghanistan from which to plan and train.
Do they still have such facilities?
I love that logic jump of no attacks=big attack in planning.
Bin Laden was sharp enough to know the US would strike back heavily, if he could have, he would have launched something big.
Hard to do that when your organization is a shambles and at least 4 of the 6 top men are confirmed dead.

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I said no economic policy. There is inevitably a fiscal policy cause usually there is a budget every year. Another one of your snafus.
You just cliamed there was no policy, now you say there is one yearly, and it's my Snafu?
Nice try, but no dice.

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Ouch.
And more bad news on that, the exchange is going for more automation, they plan on releasing another 2,000 personel in the next fiscal year, even now my firm is designing the equipment that will replace them.
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Old 07-11-2002, 18:52:47   #162
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roland
I take rhetoric freedom. There are very few people with whom to have a serious debate, so don't expect me to be fully objective, not snide, whatever, all the time. Or just most of the time. "Pinning down" on those things is like grabbing colours.
I'm not the only one who finds you slippery.


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Btw, you do not think the sucking up to the tax lobbyists of campaign contributors is corrupt ?
Sure...but that is a whole different issue than "stunning corruption". (That phrase brings to mind, parcels of cash being passed over to legislators.) Your point is weakened by joining the two arguable issues.

And somehow arguments over whether banana-tarrifs are more craven don't cut it for me in terms of defining "stunningness". Also, as usual (like in the blue jean debate) I get more the impression that you are arguing the side of Europe versus America rather than what you beleive proper trade policy should be.

Last edited by GP; 07-11-2002 at 18:55:54.
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Old 07-11-2002, 19:05:00   #163
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Originally posted by Roland
I wonder how many gazing errors you have to make to concede a point...

Anyway, the economy is set for the next recession (mostly Greenspan's and Rubin's fault, but the Bushies made it even worse). The "war on terror" is going nowhere since Afghanistan. US foreign policy is losing international support at a record rate.

I won't go through the laundry list - suggest a topic.
This is so weak. He asked for examples of disaster and you refer to things in the future. And within one of your "points" is a success story (Afghanistan). Come on. Get on message.
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Old 07-11-2002, 19:24:48   #164
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Originally posted by maroule

I'm not convinced, many extreme left groups are still surviving long after the collapse of the USSR (hence, as you imply, without their logistical support). On the other hand, our 'enlightened policies' did bring results : despite all its problems, many were heartened by the progress in Ireland, however fragile they still are. The solution is not military, it showed but political with, when needed, military means.
I deliberately left out unresolved terrorist problems like the Arab/Musim one, the Irish one, the perpetual Basque strife and the increasing problems on Corsica. The red terrorist problem is the only one that was ever semi-satisfactorily resolved, you see. Oh, sure there are still leftist nutty groups all over the place, but I rather doubt Ulrike Meinhof would be impressed by their recent showings. And the red terror problem was solved by the collapse of their support stucture - incidentally, by America winning the cold war against the SU. As far as we know, crushing the states that support terror is the only way to deal with it - it's the only way we ever saw an end to any kind of terrorism, as you point out yourself in your reply above.

With this in mind, if there's anything to blame the US for, it's probably mostly that their current campaign is way too timid and that their target acquisition leaves a lot to be desired; taking out Saddam and letting the Saud's remain in power isn't all that rational. Not that taking out Saddam doesn't have a value all by itself, mind.
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Old 07-11-2002, 19:30:44   #165
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The best anti-terror action ever taken was bombing Khaddafi. Haven't heard much from him after that. (Note all the "help" we got from allies who refused overflight...)
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Old 07-11-2002, 19:31:53   #166
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Originally posted by moomin
I deliberately left out unresolved terrorist problems like the Arab/Musim one, the Irish one, the perpetual Basque strife and the increasing problems on Corsica.
Depends what you mean by unresolved; are you going to dismiss the good work done in dealing with terrorist organisations because the job isn’t finished yet?
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Old 07-11-2002, 19:41:18   #167
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Of course not. The Irish problem, in particular, seems promising. There may be occassional setbacks, but the general trend seems positive. Then again, so was the Israel/Palestine problem before the outbreak of the second intifada.

I'm just pointing out that the one successful case of eliminating terrorism we have is one that's more similar to current US policies than EU suggestions. If any of the remaining problems would actually be resolved by the means Europe is proposing as an alternative, bashing the US for not adopting them would make more sense.
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Old 08-11-2002, 08:26:23   #168
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Quote:
Originally posted by GP
The best anti-terror action ever taken was bombing Khaddafi. Haven't heard much from him after that. (Note all the "help" we got from allies who refused overflight...)

GP, check your facts. France had been at war with Libya before you woke up to the problem, namely in intervening militarily in Tchad, directly against Lybian troops. It's not well known on your shores, probably, no Delta troops there... therefore no 'help from allies', I suppose. It's not because it's not shown on CNN that things don't happen.
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Old 08-11-2002, 08:48:05   #169
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Quote:
Originally posted by moomin
I deliberately left out unresolved terrorist problems like the Arab/Musim one, the Irish one, the perpetual Basque strife and the increasing problems on Corsica. The red terrorist problem is the only one that was ever semi-satisfactorily resolved, you see. Oh, sure there are still leftist nutty groups all over the place, but I rather doubt Ulrike Meinhof would be impressed by their recent showings. And the red terror problem was solved by the collapse of their support stucture - incidentally, by America winning the cold war against the SU. As far as we know, crushing the states that support terror is the only way to deal with it - it's the only way we ever saw an end to any kind of terrorism, as you point out yourself in your reply above.

With this in mind, if there's anything to blame the US for, it's probably mostly that their current campaign is way too timid and that their target acquisition leaves a lot to be desired; taking out Saddam and letting the Saud's remain in power isn't all that rational. Not that taking out Saddam doesn't have a value all by itself, mind.
So you leave out all terrostist problems except the one you choose to underline your point... how convinient...

- My point about being leftist terror groups surviving without the USSR logictical support was larger, and looking at latin america (colombia and Perou) where other financial means have allowed them to persevere. Hence, leftist groups can survive without 'foreign help' hence the USSR collapse alone cannot explain their decline in Europe. It declined also for 'ideological' reasons, namely the model of development describded by communist parties lost all credibility and intellectual backing (who would place bombs for North Korea?). What about 'nihilistic' terrorism, existing in Europe at the beginning of the 20th century? it disapeared not because it was militarily repressed, but because the ideology at its core looked more and more foolish.
- "And the red terror problem was solved by the collapse of their support stucture - incidentally, by America winning the cold war against the SU." the republicans and the US in general like to claim they 'defeated' the USSR, by account of the bogus space program obliging the USSR to boost military spending to the point of bankrupcy. Frankly, it's open to discussion. I'd reckon that it sped up the process, but did not cause it. The system was rotten at the core, for socio-economic reasons more than military ones : one example, from 1979 on, infant mortality rose again in USSR (remember it was one of the major 'gain' of the revolution).

Moonim, you're giving too much credit to military actions, like the israeli are doing right now. How much better have they done by chassing terrorists for 50 years without adressing the cause of the injustice? Palestinians don't need 'foreign' support. Home made bombs are cheap, and loosing your life when it's worth shit is not much of a sacrifice either.


"their target acquisition leaves a lot to be desired; taking out Saddam and letting the Saud's remain in power isn't all that rational. Not that taking out Saddam doesn't have a value all by itself, mind."
Yes, I'd agree with both. But still it's not enough. What regional balance you propose after taking out one or both? How committed are you in enforcing it?

I don't mind the big stick policy if there is a follow up. From what we are seeing in Afghanistan (the US seem fairly inept in boosting/rebuilding it right now, and AQ propaganda won't have much problem 'recolonising' the place if long term development issues are not addressed), I'm not convinced.

Last edited by maroule; 08-11-2002 at 08:49:47.
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Old 08-11-2002, 09:03:41   #170
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I'm not the only one who finds you slippery.

While that is a funny line, for fuck's sake, you still don't get it....
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Old 08-11-2002, 09:09:18   #171
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Moomin:
"And the red terror problem was solved by the collapse of their support stucture - incidentally, by America winning the cold war against the SU."

ATTENTION - 100 % serious, objective, fact post!

That is an oversimplification. Their support structure from the sympathizer field was more important than the aid they got from the east. It also looks like the Stasi had already reduced its engagement with the RAF to allowing their terrorists to retire in the GDR, in the 1980s.

Another terror group that pretty much disappeared was the neofascists in Italy that carried out the Bologna bombing. One that completely disappeared (but also wasn't well organized) was the south tyrolians in the 1960s.

end

And America won the cold war ? So Gorbachev really was a CIA agent...
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Old 08-11-2002, 11:18:51   #172
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Originally posted by maroule
So you leave out all terrostist problems except the one you choose to underline your point... how convinient...
How did you arrive at that conclusion? You'll note my reasoning above is strenghtened by your examples, although, being unresolved, they add nothing to the quest for recipes of ending terrorism.
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- My point about being leftist terror groups surviving without the USSR logictical support was larger, and looking at latin america (colombia and Perou) where other financial means have allowed them to persevere. Hence, leftist groups can survive without 'foreign help' hence the USSR collapse alone cannot explain their decline in Europe. It declined also for 'ideological' reasons, namely the model of development describded by communist parties lost all credibility and intellectual backing (who would place bombs for North Korea?). What about 'nihilistic' terrorism, existing in Europe at the beginning of the 20th century? it disapeared not because it was militarily repressed, but because the ideology at its core looked more and more foolish.
Again, you're making my point. Red terrorism all but wanished from Europe with the collapse of the SU, while it managed to stay alive and kicking in South America, where communism as an ideology remained popular among broad masses - certainly easy to understand given the amount of Juntas that held sway there until recently. In recent years, as the stank of the dead corpse that is communism has reached even SA, the red terror groups that remain in action are the ones that managed the transformation into drug cartels profiting from the "War on Drugs". No such option was possible for our local variety and so they vanished when their support structure - ideological as well as logistic - disappeared.
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Yes, I'd agree with both. But still it's not enough. What regional balance you propose after taking out one or both? How committed are you in enforcing it?
I don't know. Given how the shining initial success in Afghanistan is now slowly dissolving back into the same old tribal warefare, you'd certainly be right in the suspicion that the US would happily win the war, but remain largely inept at winning the peace.

As for myself, I rather think the entire Muslim world needs dismantling and that neo-colonialism would work wonders. You'll note that idea is certainly more inopportune here in Europe than it is in the US, although I bet it isn't exactly popular anywhere.
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I don't mind the big stick policy if there is a follow up. From what we are seeing in Afghanistan (the US seem fairly inept in boosting/rebuilding it right now, and AQ propaganda won't have much problem 'recolonising' the place if long term development issues are not addressed), I'm not convinced.
I agree totally with the above. But then again, I'm simply not convinced that doing nothing - or paying danegeld, as various appeasement proposals ultimately amount to - are better solutions. And since nobody else seems to be in the know, I find the loud vocal criticism of Americas current policies wrong-headed.

At least the Americans are trying. What, exactly, do we do except bitch and moan?
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Old 08-11-2002, 11:22:11   #173
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As for myself, I rather think the entire Muslim world needs dismantling and that neo-colonialism would work wonders. You'll note that idea is certainly more inopportune here in Europe than it is in the US, although I bet it isn't exactly popular anywhere.
So what's wrong with the Israeli model then ? Did they just screw up badly on their civilatory burden?
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Old 08-11-2002, 11:30:06   #174
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roland
ATTENTION - 100 % serious, objective, fact post!
Management should probably frame this and hang it somewhere. It really only happens once in a blue moon.
Quote:
That is an oversimplification. Their support structure from the sympathizer field was more important than the aid they got from the east. It also looks like the Stasi had already reduced its engagement with the RAF to allowing their terrorists to retire in the GDR, in the 1980s.
Of course it's an oversimplification. It doesn't nohow diminish the fact that the overall reason we don't see much red terror round here these days is that the commie ideology was so heavily discredited with the fall of the SU. As for the Italian fascists, didn't Italy deal with them by appeasement? Why bomb things when they've got Gianfranco Fini in the bloody government.

These South Tyrolian chaps apparently needed better PR - what were they after? Bigger ale stoops? Enforced lederhosen for adults? Inquiring minds want to know!

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And America won the cold war ?
Own goal.
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Old 08-11-2002, 11:34:16   #175
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moomin

"Management should probably frame this and hang it somewhere. It really only happens once in a blue moon."

Another one.

"Why bomb things when they've got Gianfranco Fini in the bloody government."

That was a bit before his time.

"These South Tyrolian chaps apparently needed better PR - what were they after? Bigger ale stoops? Enforced lederhosen for adults? Inquiring minds want to know!"

Returning southern tyrol to Austria. Amd probably the Lederhosen thing too.
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Old 08-11-2002, 11:36:57   #176
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Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
So what's wrong with the Israeli model then ? Did they just screw up badly on their civilatory burden?
Own goal!

Well, it is that. Still, come on, Roland. Don't be disingenuous. What Israel is doing has nothing to do with the policies I propose, for reasons that should be so self-evident a lawyer ought to be able to grok them all by himself...
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Old 08-11-2002, 11:39:03   #177
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Well it has one thing in common - occupation. Don't you think that could be a little problem ?
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Old 08-11-2002, 11:41:12   #178
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Originally posted by Chris

The last few attacks had the advantage of firm fincial backing and solid protected bases in Afghanistan from which to plan and train.
Do they still have such facilities?
I love that logic jump of no attacks=big attack in planning.
Bin Laden was sharp enough to know the US would strike back heavily, if he could have, he would have launched something big.
Hard to do that when your organization is a shambles and at least 4 of the 6 top men are confirmed dead.
If you seriously believe this you've got to be one of the most naive people i've ever met.
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Old 08-11-2002, 11:49:58   #179
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They just don't have the long term experience of terrorism over there. Although a quick search of the number of IRA leaders shot or inprisoned and the amount of attacks the IRA still managed to pull off should quickly dispell that myth.
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Old 08-11-2002, 11:51:21   #180
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Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
Well it has one thing in common - occupation. Don't you think that could be a little problem ?
No, I certianly don't imagine occupation to be a smooth, easy process. Still, if the alternative is a spiral of increased terrorism with access to weapons of mass destruction and clamp-downs on our own freedoms in futile attempts to curb it, I think it's preferable.

Occupation as a such has an undeservingly bad rap; amazingly constructive results where produced with occupations in post-war Germany and Japan. The devil is in the details.

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Old 08-11-2002, 11:54:05   #181
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Oh and isn't timing beautiful sometimes!!! Breaking news:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2420327.stm

Quote:
Al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden is alive and planning further terrorist attacks around the world, the head of Interpol has said.

...


''The terrorist threat... is at least as great now as it was before 11 September. Sleeper cells are in place, unknown to the police, who are ready to act from one day to the next," Mr Noble said.
Although I bet Chris knows more about it than the head of Interpol.
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Old 08-11-2002, 12:00:55   #182
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Although that is just the guys personal opinion

statement 1) OBL is alive
statement 2) I believe he is alive becasue i've no proof he is dead.

No actual new evidence of anything.

And saying there are active cells...because you don't know about.. them is also foolish.

However it's exactly the same thing that I was saying

I guess it's one of those...learning the lessons of History things

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Old 08-11-2002, 12:06:13   #183
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Exactly. That's the assumption you have to work under, no matter how many you stop there will still be more of them out there waiting to blow something up the day after someone gets up and says "Al Qaeda is no longer a threat" or something.

I don't think that the sleeper cells is speculation, but the Osama thing clearly is. It's the correct theory to work under though. You have to constantly assume that AQ is out there planning attacks.

That Bali bombing was only a few weeks ago and that was an AQ linked group from all the reports we're getting.
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Old 08-11-2002, 12:07:31   #184
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I disagree that it's foolish to assume there are cells out there plotting attacks though, it's the way you HAVE to think as someone working in anti-terrorism.
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Old 08-11-2002, 12:12:05   #185
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I still remember the good old days of IRA 'ceasefires' which we always knew had finished on the day there was another bombing...always stupidly thinking it was a prospect for peace and not just so that they could pause, reequip, replan, redistribute and start another bombing campaign.
As far as i'm aware that's the way it's happened in most places with ongoing 'terrorist' problems.
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Old 08-11-2002, 12:15:02   #186
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Yep.

And the UK government has released a general terrorism warning today too, I guess, bring it back to peoples attention.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2419115.stm
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Old 08-11-2002, 12:21:50   #187
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Anyhow, to be fair I don't think the Intelly ppl are taking the whole thing quite as blase as the idiot public, it's just your usual case of tell the papers it's under control, your thick public will believe what they read, won't panic, and so your social and economic infrastructure won't collapse around your ears. Meanwhile you can get on with the business of finding out what's really going on.
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Old 08-11-2002, 12:28:47   #188
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Yeah but that won't wash here. The public know damn well that when the government says they have it all under control they don't 'cause the terrorists are too hard to stop like that. Our government has to be more realistic 'cause they've seen in the past the political damage from saying it's all OK and then getting something blown up. And the British public doesn't seem to panic that easily. Most people have grown up with bombing whether it's the Blitz or the IRA.

Plus you need the public looking out for suspicious shit all the time. Not that most of us are any good at that.
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Old 08-11-2002, 12:35:55   #189
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Maybe not anymore, but then the legacy is still there, no rubbish bins at train stations for example. And staff are trained to look out for stuff like bags lying around. Anyhow I agree with what you say, but the statement was more directed towards the 'merican public. You don't want people running round panicing at everthing, as tends to happen in that sort of sitution, though again I think that has probably died down for the most part...post afghanistan anyway.
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Old 08-11-2002, 12:39:49   #190
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I keep wondering what the criteria are at the station for starting to play that "unattended baggage will be removed and may be destroyed" message are. It doesn't seem to be every day, but some days they play it every 5 mins or so.
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Old 08-11-2002, 14:31:52   #191
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GP, check your facts. France had been at war with Libya before you woke up to the problem, namely in intervening militarily in Tchad, directly against Lybian troops. It's not well known on your shores, probably, no Delta troops there... therefore no 'help from allies', I suppose. It's not because it's not shown on CNN that things don't happen.
They refused overflight.
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Old 08-11-2002, 14:47:01   #192
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Because they didn't think that the American bombing would help the problems they were already having with Libya? Maybe?

Thatcher allowing the US to use it's UK bases was very contentious here at the time.
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Old 08-11-2002, 16:36:20   #193
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No, I certianly don't imagine occupation to be a smooth, easy process....
Occupation as a such has an undeservingly bad rap; amazingly constructive results where produced with occupations in post-war Germany and Japan. The devil is in the details.
If you want to draw the Red analogy, then containment should be the strategy of choice. Of course the situation is a bit different, we don't have an islamist bloc, we don't have an islamist army that's worth shit apart from the Iranians, but a lot of whacky movements....

For Iran, the idea to let them simmer in their own stone age ignorance seems to be working in a way somewhat similar to Poland, Hungary etc....

Occupation, however... the arab or muslim world is not Germany 1945 or even Japan. That's not just details, that's a another world.
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Old 08-11-2002, 19:30:17   #194
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If you seriously believe this you've got to be one of the most naive people i've ever met.
What's Naieve is people like you insisting Ireland and Osama are an accurate comparrison.

Mikey, my dog knows more then the head of interpol.

BTW, Bush got his resolution, just like I said he would.

So far, in the last year, I'm 100% on predictions.

Keep telling me I'm wrong.
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Old 08-11-2002, 20:17:29   #195
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Nice response,
What's naive is people ignoring a whole lotta history to insist that they know best about something they've never experienced before.

I bet there's a whole lotta people out there scared at your uncanny predictive ability. To be fair I don't give a toss if you of people like you insist on sticking your head in the sand because there are a lot more intelligent and experienced people who do actually do something about it.
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Old 08-11-2002, 20:31:30   #196
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Yadda , yadda, yadda Shaker, your telling me you know shit.

How many airliners did the IRA crash into buildings in Britain?

How many Royal navy ships where attacked by the IRA?

How many British embassies were attacked by the IRA?

The truth is, your comparison is simple minded, because Al Qaeda is a different kind of enemy with different goals then the IRA.

In short, you know jack.
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Old 08-11-2002, 20:38:47   #197
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Perhaps he knows Sean?
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Old 09-11-2002, 00:23:03   #198
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Could be.
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Old 12-11-2002, 09:04:05   #199
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Chris, you're not half as clever as you think you are and your knowledge of both history and current affairs is patchy at best (as is your command of your native language). I posted a few questions last week, you apparently forgot to answer any of them. Would you care to try now? Or is trumpeting your Republican faith all you can do?


"here are a few questions, with a french gay hand flip:

- would you say that Sharon's policy, with the explicit support of Bush, are bringing us closer to a solution to the palestinian problem?
- about the energy consumption/waste generation of the US (measured per inhabitant, for example), do you think this current pattern can be held for long?
- tarifs and trade measures on steal in the US : how contradictory with the seemingly 'liberal' stance of the bush administration?
- after the proposed intervention in Irak, what will be the status of the Kurdistan republic the opposing parties to Saddam (that the US are supporting) try to create? wouldn't a kurdistan republic be a factor of regional tension between Iran, Turkey and Irak? More generally, and considering the sky high popularity of the US in the region, would a US controlled Irak create more resentments the region, or less? Wouldn't a UN mandate be less risky? (But then why would the UN support an action that was taken by the US alone?) "


A discussion/debate is not about hammering its prejudices. Try harder.
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Old 12-11-2002, 09:32:50   #200
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Originally posted by Chris
Yadda , yadda, yadda Shaker, your telling me you know shit.

How many airliners did the IRA crash into buildings in Britain?

How many Royal navy ships where attacked by the IRA?

How many British embassies were attacked by the IRA?

The truth is, your comparison is simple minded, because Al Qaeda is a different kind of enemy with different goals then the IRA.

In short, you know jack.
They are still terrorists working in small cells killing people by attacking innoccents. And the principle is still the same. A small cell can still do a lot of damage with very little money even if it's leadership has been cut off completely. At the end of the day the 9/11 terrorists were a few fanatics armed with knives. A lot of organisation but not much money required there. You seem to be suggesting that Al Qaeda is bigger, more complex and more powerful than the IRA because it strikes bigger and harder targets but yet for some reason it's also less powerful because it can't sustain hits to its leadership like the IRA could. That doesn't make any sense. If anything you should see how the IRA bounced back and regrouped and assume that Al Qaeda will bounce back just as well. It's even easier for them because they have fanatics who aren't worried about being killed. They have no need to plan escape routes for all their people. You can guarantee that AQ will have learnt all the lessons from the last 50 years of the war against terrorism even if you aren't prepared to accept them yourself.

I don't see your government being stupid enough to suggest that Al Qaeda is no longer a threat. I have no idea why you think that should be the case.

As for different goals... they aren't that different. In one case you have Palestine as the trigger, the other Northern Ireland.

ps. The "our terrorists are bigger than your terrorists" argument you appear to be trying to use is really out of order.

And Maroule's questions are worth thinking about.
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