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Old 12-09-2002, 07:36:03   #101
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Well, we really prefer the Power Behind the Throne deal, Chris. We can certainly be grouped/viewed as an empire. In the late 1900s, we certainly were an empire. We transititioned out of direct control to power behind the throne (ruler's best friend deal, etc).
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Old 12-09-2002, 07:39:20   #102
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Old 12-09-2002, 07:42:54   #103
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Maybe time saved us. By the time we got into the business, most territories had already been claimed or were already independent.
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Old 12-09-2002, 07:43:53   #104
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We can be viewed as an economic empire, but not in the Imperial sense of the word, at least these days, as the last Imperial war was 1898, and the results of that are two independant countries (Philliphinnes and Cuba) and a solid common wealth (Puerto Rico).

As far as economically, the US held almost 60% of all manufacturing in 1900, and has lost quite a bit of that, but in real terms it wasn't resulted in a heavy shift in economic prosperity, the US is still the most sucessful single nation on Earth as far as production goes.
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Old 12-09-2002, 07:47:09   #105
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Nothing but us being to busy in our own business stopped us. And make no mistake, we tried like hell. Ask the Japanese. We used our mighty White Navy against them, to force them to do business with us. We'd have taken them over like other places in the Pacific, but we just weren't that crazy. Something about there being 100 of them per 1 of us or something set off the thoughts 'It's better to make a buck and take over lesser populated places'.

Yep. C-Beast lives. I don't feel like hunting it in such a serious thread. Not that I knew it was C-Beast time already.
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Old 12-09-2002, 07:49:51   #106
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And Japan was a quick study. By 1905 they were shooting it out with Russia.
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Old 12-09-2002, 07:51:08   #107
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An oversimplifaction of the 1850s there, the US was only interested in trade and protecting it's sailors in 1853.

In fact, from the start the US promissed independance to the Phillips and Cuba, PR didn't want it.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:17:03   #108
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Ahhh common error....
Mistaking Caeser for the Senate.

Unfortunately City Hall was in the hands of the mob, and has been ever since.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:25:28   #109
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We took Cuba from Spain, didn't we? It's been a long time since I studied that. Once we had it, we didn't know what we wanted to do with it, and turned it over to the locals. Common, it's 60 miles from Florida. We could take it anytime we wanted. That's not a matter of being nice... we just cannot bother with running the place constantly.

We promised Hawaii it would remain independant, as I recall the history I was taught in school. Changed our minds, darn quick.

And it took us a long darn time to give the Phillips back, didn't it? We haven't returned the US Virgin Islands, have we? Wonder what's valuable there...
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:32:50   #110
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Darkstar, Chris, etc. ... ... I think I'm going to collect some phrases and make sure they're always ready to be copy/pasted in case a topic on US foreign policy and terrorism comes up. And you should too, it's a major waste of time otherwise.

GP, you're just one major asshole. I'm not going to waste another second of my life thinking about a response to your idiocy.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:34:00   #111
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Cuba was debated in congress, some wanted it to be a state, others a dependancy, a common weath, ect, before it was decided to simply make it a country.

Hawaii was taken as it was needed as a coaling station for the asiaitic fleet, and it turned out they liked being part of the US.

The Phill thing did take longer then needed, but in the end the right thing was done.

PR and VI like their current status, the US protects them, and they don't pay federal income tax.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:35:20   #112
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Actually this is rather a general Euro vs. US thing, so everybody would be better off doing that.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:37:04   #113
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How can you make billions making cigars...??

:P
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:38:58   #114
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Sell em to Euro twats.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:39:31   #115
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Euros suck!


...better?
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:40:11   #116
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MightyTree... Cool. Like I said, just too much of all these things in one thread for me. I'll try to remember that in the future.

Chris, PR is always debating about becoming the 51st state of the Union, from what I hear, but that gets shot down and fought against, by more then just PR.

And that's right. Hawaii was taken, and they were told they were going to like being a part of the Union. Or they'd be dead. That's exactly what I was taught about Hawaii. Although they threw in a few more details about how we killed a bunch of them that weren't happy with being a part of the Us until we reached one smart lady who didn't want to die.

And how did we come by our property in Cuba by Guatemo Bay? From taking it from the Spanish and dictating terms to the Cuba? Or something else?
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:41:00   #117
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Chagarra, Cigars are good money. Haven't you played Tropico?
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:41:54   #118
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Let's talk about Columbia, Panama, and the canal while we're at it.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:41:55   #119
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We made a deal with the Cubans in 1898, a 99 year lease with a US option for 99 more.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:43:11   #120
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Sure, Panama was part of Columbia, we promissed to help them gain independance if they let us build a canal, they did, and we did.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:43:25   #121
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Good one, Deacon.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:44:59   #122
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Yeah, but they didn't want independance until we convinced them that they needed it. Lots of hanky panky, and normal US handling of the 'banana republics' from what I dimly recall about.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:51:02   #123
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Quote:
Originally posted by walruskkkch
I pity you don't recognize that appeasement won't work either. It won't suprise me at all if another attack occurs since the terrorists can hid behind the Europeans obstruction of any constructive action on rooting them out. Your lack of support for us simply translates into support of them whether you wish to admit so or not.
I see the brainwash propaganda has worked perfectly well on you.

Has US policy caused the attacks ? Sure. Before you jump up and down, use the proper definition of cause. Cause is anything you can't think away without the event not happening. It has nothing to do with blame or right/wrong.

Where do you see european obstruction ? In Afghanistan ? In police and intelligence cooperation ? Where ? Put up or shut up.

Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with this. Even the pathological liars in the adminstration had to backpaddle on those claims.

The appeasement story: This is about as braindead an analogy as you can get. Who would you appease ? There is no Fundamentalist "Germany" waiting to roll the tanks all over the world. It's a completely different problem.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:56:13   #124
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It's a waste of time, Roland. Those bloody Americans will never understand ...
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:57:38   #125
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And I can still vent.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:58:53   #126
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Sure, I'm fine with that.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:01:23   #127
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Seems that both sides disagree.

Like I said, believe what you want.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:01:29   #128
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One day there'll be a day when walrus, Chris and Darkstar will ask us for forgiveness for not having believed us earlier. That day will come, I can feel it.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:03:30   #129
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Why, is hell about to freeze over?

Someday (probaly january) the Eurotwats will be begging to join the peacekeeping in Iraq, having missed the show, and still wanting to look like they did something, ALA Afghanistan.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:04:33   #130
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Yeah, Roland. Of rampant povert, illiteracy, and stupidity. Of money grubbing elite protecting their rights and privs, and keeping the masses in poverty, illiterate, and stupid. On both sides. But now that we've had it shown that we have to respond, we will. Wherever in the world we think needs it to run these dogs and their kindred down.

This is about revenge, and sending a damn loud message to anyone else that wants to push the Great Satan too far, Roland.

We will see what Bush presents to the UN. We should be occupying Baghdad in between 9 months to 18 months from now, one way or the other. Whether it's a glass crater or not. Bush and his people have been pushing too hard. Probably don't feel they can back down.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:08:17   #131
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Well, the Euros plan to stamp their foot and yell impotently as we destroy Saddam, same as always, then the next day it will be buisness as usual for them.

Tell, oh learned Germans, is there anything you steadfast fellows would EVER fight for? (outside of an Austrian nut with a Moe hiarcut that is)
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:08:22   #132
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Well, we have that case with the German authorities not handing over a 911 suspect over fears that the Ams would fry him.

But in reality, the obstruction is more political. Opposing the US on this account is to send a clear message to the islamofascist - your behaviour isn't yet bad enough for us not to side with you on this issue.

Bad enough obstructionism.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:11:34   #133
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Quote:
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Why, is hell about to freeze over?

Someday (probaly january) the Eurotwats will be begging to join the peacekeeping in Iraq, having missed the show, and still wanting to look like they did something, ALA Afghanistan.
The German government maybe, depending on who wins the elections (maybe not even depending on that but we'll see). I for sure won't.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:12:04   #134
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Comte De Richleiu I believe.

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Old 12-09-2002, 09:12:38   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkstar

This is about revenge, and sending a damn loud message to anyone else that wants to push the Great Satan too far, Roland.

Deterrence doesn't work against terrorists. You'll just escalate this "war".
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:13:06   #136
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I don't think that Iraq will actually be as easy as Afghan. They aren't as desperate to be free of their leadership, for one thing. They aren't really in the stone ages either. They've also had 10 years to get ready.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:13:19   #137
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Of course not, nothing is worth risking your life for, let some other sucker do it for you, that's what you pay him for, right?
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:14:13   #138
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What war... I believe people were discussing pest extermination..

The Spartan way.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:14:33   #139
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AFAIK, several of the nuts we're interested in have been arrested in Europe.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:15:43   #140
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"Someday (probaly january) the Eurotwats will be begging to join the peacekeeping in Iraq, having missed the show"

lol

Apart from the worst case scenario, that is moderate arab governments falling en masse, Europe will profit from the Iraq war with having done extremely little.

"Tell, oh learned Germans, is there anything you steadfast fellows would EVER fight for?"

We grew a bit tired of stupid wars. It's a history thing.

"(outside of an Austrian nut with a Moe hiarcut that is)"

Buddy, wanna crack a walnut on your head like a real man?
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:16:07   #141
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Quote:
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I don't think that Iraq will actually be as easy as Afghan. They aren't as desperate to be free of their leadership, for one thing. They aren't really in the stone ages either. They've also had 10 years to get ready.
They had the Soviets helping them last time, now they have nothing.

If it lasts more then a week it will be surprissing, only the air phase will last longer, the ground phase should take less then two days.

In case you think that's just talk, ask Roland, I gave him the EXACT scenario and timeframe for Afghanistan last january.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:16:15   #142
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And war is not about Geneva. It never was, and never will be. All enemies don't subscribe to convention.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:16:53   #143
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Quote:
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Of course not, nothing is worth risking your life for, let some other sucker do it for you, that's what you pay him for, right?
US since early 70s.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:16:59   #144
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"moderate arab governments". Nice concept.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:17:37   #145
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Well Roland, we may follow Bush, but your nut beats ours by a landslide.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:18:26   #146
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Quote:
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I don't think that Iraq will actually be as easy as Afghan.
There could be some ugly fighting in the cities but apart from that Iraq is dead as soon as the thing starts. Unless some yanks have funny ideas about Wunderwaffen and such...
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:19:19   #147
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Who is our nut ? Adolf ? He's left active politics a while ago, you know....
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:20:00   #148
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Tell, oh learned Germans, is there anything you steadfast fellows would EVER fight for? (outside of an Austrian nut with a Moe hiarcut that is)
Maybe it's about time you have a war in your very own country, so you see what it's like. It's just all too comfortable for you sitting on your fat arses watching other people fight and die on TV, and then bragging about what a great country you are. What do you think it would be like to have 9/11 for a couple of months every day?
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:20:26   #149
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Oh, I don't think the taking will be very difficult. We haven't let them get assembled much since then. But the occupying... that will be nasty, I think. Much worse than Afghan, as the Afghan generally wanted us there to help get rid of the Talibhan. I am getting the feeling that people that count, you know, military, seem to think Iraq would be a repeat. From what I've heard, we got off light in dealing with the Afghani. More problems from local disagreements then the people genuinely not wanting us there to help them out, and help them rebuild.

Hell, that's one of the few things I hear other nationals admit we do well... rebuild nations.

And aren't our 'friends' in Iraq working with the Al-Qada scum we chased out of Afghan?
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:21:30   #150
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It'd make Boing stock go through the roof, that's for sure.
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