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Old 16-08-2002, 16:09:13   #101
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What is this thread about?
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Old 16-08-2002, 16:09:23   #102
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Old 16-08-2002, 16:09:42   #103
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On second thought, never mind.

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Old 16-08-2002, 16:10:13   #104
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I'll be setting up my leaderboard this weekend.
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Old 16-08-2002, 16:10:54   #105
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It's about how the rest of the world views geopolitics like it was a CivIII game.
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Old 16-08-2002, 16:11:09   #106
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Old 16-08-2002, 16:11:37   #107
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x-post, mine was for DaShi.

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Old 16-08-2002, 16:12:06   #108
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Old 16-08-2002, 16:15:54   #109
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Sure it was.
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Old 16-08-2002, 22:13:22   #110
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I like my arguments in my first view posts in this thread. I feel that they truly describe the state of the world today.
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Old 16-08-2002, 22:21:45   #111
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What a twatish thread.

To poly with you all!
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Old 16-08-2002, 23:53:09   #112
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This thread is so typical Poly, it really hurts.
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Old 17-08-2002, 01:42:10   #113
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Are you twats opening a Poly poster Welcome Wagon?
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Old 18-08-2002, 13:52:06   #114
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This thread is so typical Poly, it really hurts.
No it isn't. I don't post at Poly, therefore it's nothing like it.
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Old 18-08-2002, 14:17:37   #115
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No it isn't. I don't post at Poly, therefore it's nothing like it.
Yes it is. You post just like a lot of posters at Poly.
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Old 18-08-2002, 16:53:37   #116
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Several folks here don't post at that incredibly nerdy civ site, but it still reminds me of that incredibly nerdy civ site because many posts are made without any real knowledge of the situations at hand.

Carry on .
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Old 18-08-2002, 19:14:03   #117
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you'll have to provide references to back up that statement.
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Old 18-08-2002, 21:20:37   #118
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Originally posted by OldWarrior_42
Several folks here don't post at that incredibly nerdy civ site, but it still reminds me of that incredibly nerdy civ site because many posts are made without any real knowledge of the situations at hand.

Carry on .
Hey! I only post what I know. Whether it's true or not is for psychiatrist to decide.
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Old 18-08-2002, 21:33:39   #119
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Quote:
you'll have to provide references to back up that statement.
I don't really wish to go back through this whole thread and quote all the things and then answer them, to prove a point that I don't really care too hard to disprove.

I made a simple observation that people in general sometimes post with no real knowledge of the situation, or why things work as they do, and state them as though it was written in stone. And seeing that here, reminded me of that incredibly nerdy civ site, where it is much more prevalent.

Just one simple example... and I don't remember who posted it or the exact words..... but it was to the extent that regional conflicts do not matter as they are a regional problem and not global.

This is in fact, a bad assumption as everything that happens now, wherever in the world it may be, it has global implications. Be it war, sanctions....economic or political, destroying rain forests for profit, pollution whatever it is. It is simply no longer safe to say that it is a regional problem and has no global impact on the rest of the world.

One other thing... a statement by Walrus, and again I am not singleing him out or anyone else in particular, but to think that the US is not capable of some stupid one crop dusting plane moron maneuver to impact agriculture in Cuba is closeing your eyes to the possibility, and I stress possibility, that this may in deed have merit. Might not, but it doesn't hurt to look into it. I put nothing past any single government to do what they think is in their own best interests to achieve their own goals... sometimes self serving ones.

But coming from Cuban sources does give it a suspect appearance.

Power, money all that stuff brings on the possibilities of many things most average people would look at in a way of thinking that this is simply unbelievable.

Couple examples. I ain't looking for no more, right now, so take what we all say here on this silly little tiny gaming community with a grain of salt, and when one of us gets a job working for the SAS, or CIA or NSA or wherever else they would be privy to sensitve information, they can come here and share with us the actual facts surrounding them.... preferrably start a thread in the Competitions forum.
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Old 18-08-2002, 21:40:24   #120
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Sadly, those of us who are privy to sensitive information aren't spilling the beans. Darkstar!! I looking at you. Come on, we know about the aliens and their tech already. Just admit it.
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Old 18-08-2002, 21:42:22   #121
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I myself , happen to be the Grand Exalted PuhBah of Mars.
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Old 18-08-2002, 21:44:25   #122
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It's Grand Exalted Pooh Bear, FYI.
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Old 18-08-2002, 21:46:14   #123
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Not on The Honeymooners , it isn't.
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Old 18-08-2002, 21:47:29   #124
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Or was that The Flintstones.

Can't remember now. One had the Raccoon lodge and the other had the Loyal Order of Water Buffalos.
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Old 18-08-2002, 21:49:09   #125
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Water Buffalos=Flintstones

But wasn't there an elephant one: "An elephant never forgets. . .a friend."
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Old 18-08-2002, 22:01:05   #126
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I know that the Raccoon Lodge was The Honeymooners and that The Loyal Order of Water Buffalos was the Flintstones.... I just forget what the so called Big Cheese was on both shows.

I am pretty sure that The Grand Exalted PuhBah was from the Honeymooners, though.

Doesn't really matter though, does it. I am he.
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Old 18-08-2002, 22:02:20   #127
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Don't know about no elephants, though. ?
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Old 18-08-2002, 22:21:03   #128
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You expect me to read that long and boring post Tom?

Your outta you freakin mind.
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Old 18-08-2002, 22:31:59   #129
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Twas but a followup to my first short post... when I said this thread reminded me abit of that incredibly nerdy civ site. ...agreeing with some others on that point.

Shakey made me do the followup. Blame it on him, not Bossman.
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Old 18-08-2002, 23:44:47   #130
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Yikes. A serious thread. I think I've changed.
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Old 18-08-2002, 23:58:39   #131
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It's STILL Bossman's fault.
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Old 19-08-2002, 01:28:34   #132
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Qweeg sounds like he needs pyschiatric help.
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Old 19-08-2002, 01:29:12   #133
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And unlike qweeg, I have proof of my accusation, just look at his post.
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Old 19-08-2002, 01:38:00   #134
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Bush wants Saddam out (quickly) so that hopefully they can get a friendly regime in (lol) and in the process seriously destabilize OPEC's control over gas prices which could topple several of those goverments if they don't have the money coming in like they do now per barrel - and several are unstable enough as it is. Why do you think he ordered the filling of the Strategic Oil Reserve, he wants Saddam out so all his friends stock can rise and he gets some prize money in the end (with the reserve filled, we can keep prices in check during a short war). He is an oil man remember? The middle east doesn't want Saddam out (not even Kuwait), not because of the threat of nuclear or bio weapons (some recent defectors close to Saddam said he wouldn't use them, as he knows it would seal his fate, hell Isreal would drop the bomb before our ICMB even lands if Saddam used WMD, we'd be turning glass into even into even more glass), but because having a hellhole right in the middle of the middle east means that the US winds up being their military protection from outside aggressors, leaving their forces free to curb freedom of speech and also, it helps them keep their gas prices high.
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Old 19-08-2002, 08:43:03   #135
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Welcome to Poly East.

Walrus, US is a Super Bitch to the world. We play big bully, lots. We sometimes play good friend/protector to the down trodden, but it's rare.

We like to get other people to waste their soldier lives for our interest. Mostly because soldiers vote, so they make a good way to fudge election results .

Removing the US goverment would probably do the world a lot of good.

I heard the plan was to remove Saddam and keep Iraq.

Oil is a long way from running out. About 5 centuries. They aren't worried about it. Although when that runs out, they want to use the methane hydro ice in the top of the sea bed. Only about x12000 versus all the oil known about, and they haven't really even finished looking at it. Just noticed how fuel useful and easy it would be to collect. Too bad it's like serious concentrated green house gases.

Walrus, our government do more dumb and evil shit then even the anti-US people would concieve. It's done to keep the US #1 and uncontested, to improve profits, or just for fun/profit. No serious conspiracies... just a few to a few dozen people doing what they think is in the best interest of the American people. People's conscious very often takes a walk when it's for the 'Greater Good'. Remember that.
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Old 19-08-2002, 08:48:00   #136
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Removing the US goverment would probably do the world a lot of good.
Yes, such petty details as governing y'all could be easily handeled from Ottawa.

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Old 19-08-2002, 15:41:22   #137
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How could Canada have let the situation get so out of hand- I thought you guys were meant to be keeping an eye on the place, ensuring the Canadian-backed puppet-governments of the USA were kept in line and away from the tempting and evil path of super-powered arrogance.

Here is the evidence to support my wild and irresponsible accusations, starting with the evil American scientific atrocities inflicted against the sweet and innocent good folk of Great Canada:

In 1953, the US Army used air-blowers on trucks to disseminate potentially dangerous zinc cadmium sulfide through the city of Winnipeg as part of its chemical and biological weapons tests.
Baltimore Sun, August 15, 1980, p18

~~~

I won't bother mentioning US saturation of Vietnam with Agent Orange and its dioxin fallout, we all know about that one already. And I wont go into China being 'bombed' with turkey feathers and over animal waste infected with dangerous bacteria during the Korean war becous of the red-propaganda that saturated those reports- although it should be noted that in 1979 the US Army conducted research into the use of turkey feathers as a BW vector.

~~~

In September 1970, the Americans used sarin nerve gas (military designation CBU-15, or GB) in their operation Tailwind to prepare their entry for an attack on a small Laotian village. The village contained a base camp where a number of American military defectors were being kept. The Americans succeeded in killing in excess of 100 people, military and civilian.

When the Americans were making their getaway, they were confronted by a superior force of North Vietnamese and communist Pathet Lao soldiers. The Yanks called for backup from the air, the airforce arrived and dropped canisters of sarin gas on the enemy, killing the enemy and adversely (to this day) affecting some of the American soldiers who had not been fully protected against the gas.

The story was reported in June 1998, on the tv program NewsStand:CNN & Time", and featured Admiral Thomas Moorer(Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff 1970) as well as other military personnel who corroborated the incidents described above.

After the American media-control agencies heard of the story it was shutdown, rebuked and stonewalled of course, but more details can be found in this report Tailwind: Rebuttal to the Abrams/Kohler Report" July 22, 1998
available on the internet.

~~~

Cuba

In August 1962, a British frieghter under Soviet lease, damaged its propeller on a reef and crept into San Juan, Puerto Rico for repairs. It had been bound for the Soviet Union with 80,000 bags of sugar on board. The ship was put into dry-dock, and 14,135 sacks of sugar were unloaded to facilitate repairs. While in a wharehouse, the sugar was contaminated by the CIA with unknown-substances. When President Kennedy learnt of the contamination he was furious becouse it had taken place in US territory and if discovered would be a propaganda coup for the USSR (as well as set a dangerous presedent for the rules of cold-war engagement).

The CIA man who helped direct world-wide sabotage efforts against Cuba later revealed that "There was lots of sugar being sent out from Cuba, and we were putting a lot of contaminents in it" Taylor Branch and George Crile III, "The Kennedy Vendetta", Harpers (New York), August 1975, p25

~

In the same year, a Canadian agricultural technician was paid $5000 by "an American military intelligence agent" to infect Cuban turkeys with a virus which would produce fatal Newcastle disease. Subsequently, 8,000 turkeys died. Washington Post, March 21, 1977, pA18

~

In 1971, the CIA turned over to Cuban exiles a virus which causes African swine fever. Six weeks later, amn outbreak of the disease in Cuba forced 500,000 pigs to be slaughtered to prevent a nationwide epidemic. The outbreak- the first ever of its kind in the Western hemisphere was called "most alarming event" of the year by the UN Foods and Agriculture Organization. San Francisco Chronicle, January 10, 1977

~

In 1956 and 1958, declassified documents have revealed the US Army loosed swarms of specially bred mosguitos in Georgia and Florida to see whether disease carrying insects could be weapons in biological war.The mosquitos bred for the tests were of the Aedes aegypti type.
San Francisco Chronicle, October 29, 1980, p15

In 1981, an epidemic of dengue fever (DHF) spread across the island of Cuba, transmitted by blood-eating insects, usually mosquitos the disease produces severe flu-like symtoms and incapacitating bone pain. Between May and October 1981, over 300,000 cases were reported in Cuba with 158 fatalities, 101 of which were children under 15. The Center for Disease Control later reported that the appearance in Cuba of this particular strain of dengue (DEN-2 from Southeast Asia) had caused the first major epidemic of DHF ever in the Americas.
Bill Schaap, "The 1981 Cuba Dengue Epidemic", Covert Action Information Bulletin (Washington, DC), No.17, Summer 1982, p28-31

~

In 1967 it was reported by Science magezine that at the US government center in Fort Detrick, Maryland, dengue fever was amongst those diseases that are at least the objects of considerable research and appear to be amongst those regarded as potential BW [biological warfare] agents. Then in 1984, a Cuban exile on trial in New York on an unrelated matter testified that in the latter part of 1980, a ship traveled from Florida to Cuba with:

a mission to carry some germs to introduce them to Cuba to be used against the Soviets and against the Cuban economy, to begin what was called chemical war, which later on produced results that were not what we expected, becous we thought that it was going to be used against the Soviet force, and it was used against our own people, and with that we did not agree.

Covert Action InformationBulletin (Washington, DC) No.22, Fall 1984, p35; the trial of Eduado Victor Arocena Perez, Federal District Court for the Southern district of New York, transcript of September 10, 1984. p2187-89.


~

On a clear day, October 21, 1996, a Cuban pilot flying over Matanzas province observed a plane releasing a mist of some substance about seven times. It turned out to be an American crop-duster operated by the US State Department, which had permission to fly over Cuba on a trip to Colombia via Grand Cayman Island. Responding to the Cuban pilots report- the Cuban air controller asked if the US pilot was having any problems, the answer was "no".

On December 18, Cuba observed the first signs of a plague of Thrips palmi, a plant eating insect never before detected in Cuba. The insect attacks practicaly all crops and is resistant to a number of pesticides. Cuba asked for clarrification of the October 21 incident. Seven weeks later the US replied that the State Department pilot had emitted only smoke in order to indicate his location to the Cuban pilot. In responce to the query, the Federal Aviation Administration stated that emitting smoke to indicate location is "not an FAA practice" and that it knew of "no regulation calling for its practice"
In April 1997, Cuba presented a report o the United Nations which charged the US with "biological aggression" and provided a detailed description of the 1996 incident and the subsequent controversy.
UN General Assembly document A/52/128, April 29, 1997

~

There are many more examples of US actual use of chemical and biologicqal weapons against militray/civilian and agricultural targets, those listed above are just some of those examples. The USA has a history of the use of WMD and BW, this cannot be denied. Somehow though- this means nothing becous America are the 'good guys'.

The usual excuse of 'National Security', or in the 'National Interest' is worse then the ex-nazi excuse of "I was just following orders", anyone can claim to be acting 'In the national interests", who is America to dissallow others to show their patriotism in the same way they do. Saddam Hussien would be doing no less if he ordered the use of chemical weapons in defence of Iraq, or to oppress the Kurds that would overthrow Iraqi government if they could- there is absolutely no difference between Iraq acting in its national interests with bio/chemical weapons and America doing so. The idea that anything nasty America does was probably in "The national interests" is something even the Third Riech could have claimed with a straight face, and counts for nothing when certain lines have been crossed (unless the national interest is an abiding interest in evil and hypocracy).
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Old 19-08-2002, 15:51:28   #138
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Like anybody is gonna read that.
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Old 19-08-2002, 15:57:47   #139
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Don't, but you can't say I have no sources to point at. You guys just keep on denying- shout me down for daring to point out some of the American governments atrocities, I can understand how you don't wanna hear anything like that, that might challenge the reality you prefer to endorse- with the USA as the good guys and everyone else as ungrateful scheming foreigners with blue blood and no interest in family life.
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Old 19-08-2002, 15:57:58   #140
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Don't bother, it's all innuendo and no facts. Plus alot of supurfluous US bashing.
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Old 19-08-2002, 16:00:40   #141
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Oh I see, write it off, don't read it- close your mind- ignore it, its all just communist propaganda.
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Old 19-08-2002, 16:00:42   #142
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Who cares if it's true?

it's boring.
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Old 19-08-2002, 16:01:17   #143
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Yes- it's boring, yawn- who cares anyway, we're number one.
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Old 19-08-2002, 16:03:04   #144
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Oh I see, write it off, don't read it- close your mind- ignore it, its all just communist propaganda.
I read it. It's not proof of anything. Just some quote, coincidences and assertions. I'll except the agent orange thing as I have seen proof of that occuring, the rest of your assertions are just that, assertion without a shred of evidence.
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Old 19-08-2002, 16:03:39   #145
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Now your talking!

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Old 19-08-2002, 16:06:45   #146
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A plane flies by, sometime later people get sick. Proof postive! Perhaps Castro should have let a full blown UN investigation come in, but then he would have let them see first hand the crap life his people lead.
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Old 19-08-2002, 16:07:53   #147
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Originally posted by walruskkkch


I read it. It's not proof of anything. Just some quote, coincidences and assertions. I'll except the agent orange thing as I have seen proof of that occuring, the rest of your assertions are just that, assertion without a shred of evidence.
I've given you all you need had you suddenly become obsessed with wanting to know "Is this True" to follow up and decide (should take more then five minutes to come to any meaningful judgement, all those [American] publications to chase up and at least one UN document).

I wont pretend I saw any of this with my own eyes, but then- how do I know America even exists? I've never been there myself so...>shrug< belief is a matter of effort in my opinion- you put the effort in to examining the evidence, I can do no more of that for you then I've already done.

Right it off- you know you can't be asked to do anything else.
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Last edited by Qweeg; 19-08-2002 at 16:10:13.
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Old 19-08-2002, 16:08:01   #148
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Old 19-08-2002, 16:11:18   #149
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As soon as you actually present evidence and not accustions I'll peruse them and weigh in with an opinion. Frankly you've added in multiple items which we weren't discussing and your evidence for the one incident we were discussing is non existent. Lacking any proof to the contrary I will gladly assume that it's a fabrication by Castro's regime.
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Old 19-08-2002, 16:13:03   #150
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