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Old 25-12-2010, 20:51:52   #1
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EVE Online Newbie - Economy edition

So EVE Online is a game I've tried about 3-4 times now, each time I couldn't really get into it but I'd mostly done the mission things.

About once a year I feel like trying it again doing something different.

This time I'd like to try the economy route -- to build a successful business type thing, or at least make a fortune trading.

Are there any good guides for this?
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Old 26-12-2010, 08:43:32   #2
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I took this route a few years back - there was a website tha showed price history for commodities

Think it was this one http://eve-central.com/tradetool/

you need a fortune to build a fortune though - I didn't realy get going till I had a billion in the bank - then you can start putting in the large orders and afford to wait until filled.
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Old 30-12-2010, 21:35:36   #3
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Trade is how I make most of my money these days (and pay for the game thru PLEX!). It's also the thing that still keeps going when you're not playing - either in game time, or if you don't have any game credit (you need to take a break from the game from time to time IMO, so why not still be earning money up to 3 months away from the game?) What more could you want, but make money not doing anything...!?

The secret is finding stuff that is both highly profitable and highly sought after and trying to corner the market. Assuming you're not in the Lonetrek region of Caldari space, you should look at the surprisingly profitable Expanded Cargohold II market - if you are in the same space, I've just given myself some unwanted competition!

The other thing is controlling the whole supply chain from resource procurement to manufacture and then sale. I own a whole host of blueprints for stuff I'm always using, such as ammo etc that I make for myself, so why not sell the excess?

There's also this Planetary Management thingy I'm looking to dabble in...

Plenty to keep you occupied! I even went for an impromptu mining session the other day, just cos I felt like it...
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Old 13-01-2011, 05:18:23   #4
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Reactivated my account (Grimaze) to find I had 3.8 million skillpoints refunded. Double-edged sword: now I've got all of the recommended trading & industry skills (and more mining), but I blew all 7 million ISK I had on buying the skills.

Now I've got the skills, but no seed money to start my trading.

I've still got a bunch of combat ships -- Battleship, Cruisers, Destroyers, etc that are outfitted so I guess I'll still have to run some missions to buy mining gear, or run enough missions to get enough money to start buy/selling things.
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Old 13-01-2011, 11:13:53   #5
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You could start by repackaging and selling all the ships and their modules that you don't use any more.

I might even send you some ISK if I'm feeling generous.
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Old 13-01-2011, 17:32:24   #6
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Just join MOBIUS' Corporation and dip into the vault.
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Old 14-01-2011, 04:13:14   #7
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Thanks MOBIUS!
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Old 14-01-2011, 09:56:47   #8
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No worries, just a little something to help you on your way...
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Old 15-01-2011, 18:44:46   #9
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I know people who were great at it. I am pretty terrible, heva lost over 8b from laziness/etc.

I still play, occasionally, will watch out for you.

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Old 16-01-2011, 21:16:15   #10
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So, dumb question.

I've got a Retriever mining barge. How do I mine in 0.5 or lower space? I get attacked by raiders every time and there's no way I can defend myself...
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Old 17-01-2011, 11:13:28   #11
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Short answer: You don't.

When you say raiders in < 0.6, I assume you mean human ones? In which case you're lucky not to have been destroyed already! You either need big balls and a keen attention to your overview, or join a Corp for mutual protection.

Stay in 0.6 or above so you at least have the safety cloak of CONCORD to prevent attacks by other players.

If it's NPC raiders, stick some scout drones in for defence and they should mop them up with your retriever acting as a decoy for damage.
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Old 17-01-2011, 15:18:59   #12
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In High Sec/Low Sec, never mine anything other then trit or scordite. (which is readily available in High Sec)

If you do mining exploration sites, you can find better things.

Mining is really really dull, very different than industry/trading.

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Old 17-01-2011, 16:07:26   #13
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Why trit or scordite?

And I meant NPC raiders.

I did more research and apparently with a Hulk it's possible because they can shield tank long enough for drones to destroy even 0.0 NPC rats. But retriever, not so much.

I'm mining plagiocase in 0.9 space in a Retriever with 5 Warrior I drones, and it seems to work.

I'm doing mining only when I'm doing other things. On the weekend I actually had EVE open on my laptop doing AFK-mining in 0.9 space while I played WoW on my desktop.
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Old 17-01-2011, 16:08:48   #14
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I'm still trying to figure out how to be good at industry/trading. How do you identify lucrative trade routes?

How do you know what's good to make? Where do you make it?
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Old 17-01-2011, 17:50:42   #15
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What is good to mine is based on prices, my alliance does a lot of industry and so what is profitable is known to me a little bit.

There are 3rd party programs which you can use to calculate costs to build things and so on...

One thing to do is to buy up a lot of meta objects for little in mission systems (or other systems), then move them to trade hubs and sell them (Rens/Jita/Amarr). At least, I think it is one way to start trading.

Good traders take like 30 minutes a day, and make billions (or more) a week. I have generally lost money on whatever industry I was doing because I was pretty terrible at just leaving stuff for a month or a year (while it would depreciate).

Often times things like ammo/etc are good things to sell far away from a trade hub. People will run out of ammo, and won't want to travel to the trade hub to buy it, so will pay more where they are at.

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Old 17-01-2011, 18:16:03   #16
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What are meta objects?

And do you have links for the programs to calculate costs, etc?
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Old 17-01-2011, 18:31:36   #17
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A good site to read:
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewforum.php?f=38

I don't know the current software out there, I last did much of it several years ago.

The type of objects for a given item is:

T1 (meta 0)
Named (meta 1-4, what I meant with meta objects, comes from missions)
T2
COSMOS
Faction
Complex
Officer

T3 are so far all 'different' types of objects.

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Old 17-01-2011, 19:16:02   #18
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Cool, I'll keep a look out for that.
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Old 17-01-2011, 19:32:14   #19
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http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/v...ic.php?t=35338

This appears to be the program thread.

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Old 19-01-2011, 04:36:07   #20
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Do you twats still use the counterglow channel?

It's lonely in there.
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Old 19-01-2011, 10:34:12   #21
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I no longer really do. I think I and Mobius are the only people who still play.

The new Character Creator seems amazing, http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard...1450771&page=8 has some funny pictures. Particularrly http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard...50771&page=1#8 .

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Old 19-01-2011, 10:50:02   #22
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I mostly just log on to keep my trades ticking over and to develop my skills. I love how this game is slowly evolving and want my character to stay involved and 'on the inside' as it happens - quite excited about all the developments recently!

Saying that though, I think I accidentally joined a player corp last night...

What was the name of the CG channel again - is it as obvious as 'Counterglow'?
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Old 19-01-2011, 10:53:04   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JM^3 View Post
The new Character Creator seems amazing, http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard...1450771&page=8 has some funny pictures. Particularrly http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard...50771&page=1#8 .

JM
It does look pretty awesome - I'm in love with the new me!

Best quote and pic on that thread is on the first page:

Quote:
how does this damn camera even work, how am I supposed to know that it's on?
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Old 19-01-2011, 15:32:56   #24
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I did quite like the new chargen, I made my new portrait last night.

And yeah, the channel is counterglow.
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Old 19-01-2011, 15:39:25   #25
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Someone made Freddie Mercury...

http://www.shrani.si/f/3D/WH/26csIq8f/668773800512.jpg

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Old 20-01-2011, 17:56:22   #26
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Found an awesome tool.

Trade Finder! http://eve-central.com/home/tradefind.html

I've got a Iteron V industrial with a current cargo capacity total of ~25,200 m^3. That'll be great to run trade routes with. Once I get some cargo optimization rigs, it can get to 37,000 m^3...

Need to get more seed money. I'm currently making ~5mil ISK an hour doing afk-mining in the evenings while I read a book/post on Poly.
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Old 22-01-2011, 09:07:37   #27
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Still doin okay at making some seed money. Upgraded to Modulated Strip Miner II's on my Retriever, making some decent ISK by afk-mining and reading/watching TV.

I'm still trying to determine what I should manufacture, and how. I'm not in a corp right now, I'm told it's a good idea to but I'm not really sure which to join and what advantages it would give me.
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Old 24-01-2011, 13:08:28   #28
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If you wanted someone to invest in you, I could (loan you a couple hundred million, you return it with interest after a couple months).

Advantages of corps can include:
Cheap Ships/Equipment (made by friendly industrialists)
Cheap Services/Services (done by friends)
People who know how to play
People to gang up with and do things with (PVE, like exploration and wormholes and so on... even mining)
Access to new resources (Wormholes, 0.0, Moons, etc)
People to gang up with and do things with (PVP, big fleet battles/etc)
People to gang up with and do things with (PVP, small gang action/anti-pirate/pirate/etc)
People to Roleplay with
People to chat with
More efficient activities (due to leadership, note this can be done with alts)

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Old 24-01-2011, 16:01:11   #29
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I think I'll be good just making money by afk-mining. Pulling in an effortless 20 mil ISK a night right now.

Thanks though.

As for corps...my SO started playing again too, so I'm still in the corp we share for now. Will evaluate joining a larger corp once I find one I think would be a good fit.
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Old 24-01-2011, 16:42:32   #30
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BTW, another easily way to make effortless ISK is to use mine planets for resources using the new Planetary Interface, which has just been upgraded to improve it. Just find some planets and mine away - if you choose the slowest speed method you can leave it ticking over for 4 days at a time without having to go back to it.

I've also recently moved into researching datacores through agents. Another way to get the game to make you money for no effort even if you just sell the datacores for a few 100k ISK at a time...

My favourite is still the hoovering up of stuff through cheap buy orders and selling them in situ to someone else at many x the buy price - don't even need a ship to move the stuff that way!
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Old 24-01-2011, 17:02:49   #31
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Do you do that through the contract system?
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Old 25-01-2011, 12:45:50   #32
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No, that's for selling specific items than can't normally be sold through the market. Such as specifically fitted battleships with rigs, or modified blueprints.

The skills needed are Procurement for remote buying, and Marketing for remote selling.

For an example: Currently Heavy Missile Launchers are going for a very low 4,800 (normally 16-20K) in my region, but can be sold from 30-70K depending on local demand.

Without moving from my station, I can therefore buy and sell things from the same remote stations and make a hefty profit without even having to transport it.
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Old 25-01-2011, 15:38:09   #33
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Oh, that's fantastic. I've L4 in both of those.
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Old 25-01-2011, 15:59:34   #34
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So how does that work? If you buy remotely, you don't get the goods transported to your location as I understand it.

And when you sell remotely, the goods don't get transported to that location as I understand it.

So doesn't this only permit you to buy from something many jumps away, and put it back up for sale over there?
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Old 25-01-2011, 16:29:22   #35
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Do they let you walk around yet in this game? How about a cockpit view?
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Old 25-01-2011, 16:49:45   #36
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So how does that work? If you buy remotely, you don't get the goods transported to your location as I understand it.

And when you sell remotely, the goods don't get transported to that location as I understand it.

So doesn't this only permit you to buy from something many jumps away, and put it back up for sale over there?
Correct on all points and those are the inherent problems in this approach. It is certainly a random scatter gun method as a 20 jump limit (assuming you choose that) ends up being most of the systems in a region, but it works for me now that I am able to make lots of money.

However, if you choose your markets correctly with several different items, it can slowly build up a picture for you as to which are the busiest systems and stations (usually where you're buying lots of stuff) and where you buy most stuff is usually, by an obviously happy coincidence, where most people buy exactly the same stuff that just got sold to you!

Initially you might want to limit to, say 5 jumps, because one of the side effects is the dilution of your buying power across all these systems as you buy stuff - this way it's not too onerous to go round collecting stuff and concentrating your selling market.

Another great tactic is buying up the stock of someone who comes in and massively undercuts you. A good example are Expanded Cargohold IIs (I cannot overstate how lucrative these things are!!!):

Buy orders are anything between 400-540k, whereas sell orders can range from 540-900k in my region. Currently I am selling a lot in the region for about 800k in a number of several systems (as well as at lower prices), which are often undercut by other players by 250k. My solution is to simply buy their whole offer, which removes the competition and replenishes my stock - either for that system or ones nearby.

I sell dozens and dozens of ECIIs every single day - they are my best line ever!
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Old 25-01-2011, 16:52:42   #37
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Do they let you walk around yet in this game? How about a cockpit view?
Only a matter of time. The new avatar application makes you customise the whole body of your character.
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Old 25-01-2011, 17:31:14   #38
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So you basically just buy out the cheap sell orders at a station, remotely, then put them up for more money as sell orders?
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Old 25-01-2011, 19:50:34   #39
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Er, yeah.
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Old 25-01-2011, 19:50:59   #40
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Old 25-01-2011, 20:12:55   #41
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I just don't see how you can make so much money doing that. Aren't there usually tons of buy/sell orders around the same price?
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Old 25-01-2011, 20:18:10   #42
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You'll be surprised. And yes, one side-effect is having to modify a lot of your prices quite often - but that doesn't take very long at all.
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Old 26-01-2011, 16:05:19   #43
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The planet stuff seems pretty cool. Free money.

Got 2 planets going.
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Old 27-01-2011, 11:51:23   #44
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Yeah, and apparently it's a lot better now after they massively upgraded it only a couple of days ago. I haven't looked at it since then though, as I want to upgrade my skill for what size of command centre I can use, with L4 being optimum without spending masses of skill learning time on what is only going to be a sideline earner for me.

One important thing is to try and group whatever it is that you are mining in such a way as you can both process and refine it to both add value and reduce the mass size of what you are storing and then transporting.

It helps if you have a practical goal in mind too. For example, I've been getting into overheating my ships' modules in combat and then making the necessary repairs in space using nanite repair paste - so all my initial production so far was based on getting self sufficient in as many components of nanite paste as possible.

I'd only got as far as two planets so far because of the impending improvements and the fact that if you upgraded your control centre before, you basically had to rip everything up and start again with everything AND incur the costs - not sure if that's still the case - need to read the upgrade notes!

Quote:
Nanite Repair Paste is a manufactured item; you need to have the blueprints, at which point, you use the blueprints with the materials gotten from PI to produce the paste.

I use 6 planets to produce the paste: Lava, temperate, barren, gas, ice, and storm.

On the Storm world, I make the superconductors needed for the bio-gel matrix.
On the Ice world, I make the Supertensile Plastics for the data chips.
On the Gas world, I make the Oxides for the bio-gel matrix.
On the Barren world, I make the first batch of nanites, and the biocells for the bio-gel matrix.
On the Lava world, I make silicon for the data chips, and reactive metals for the second batch of nanites. I also use this planet to combine the oxides, superconductors, and biocells to make the bio-gel matrix.
On the temperate world, I import the silicon to combine with the internally-generated industrial fibers to make microfiber shielding, which I combine with the imported supertensile plastics to make the data chips.
Here's the complete EVE resource flowchart, if you haven't come across it already:

EVE PI Material Diagrams

I have the Gas and Barren world steps sorted, plus in a couple of days I'll have a maximum efficiency Nanite Repair Paste BPO completed. I think I'll ultimately still end up buying stuff in as I don't think I'll be skilling up to mining 6 planets as L5 skills are so tedious to learn!

Trust me to pick something complicated to manufacture!
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Old 27-01-2011, 15:29:45   #45
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Yeah, now you don't need to restart to upgrade. Just click the CC and select upgrade, then you get more power/CPU.

I'm going to coordinate with my SO to produce Tier 5 stuff. I made the 2 planets and then discovered you could automate/route the goods automatically between planets. I was avoiding interplanetary dependencies as I didn't want to ferry the stuff daily...
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Old 27-01-2011, 17:15:03   #46
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Great, well I know what I'll be doing next!

That second bit is cool as well, and new.
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Old 27-01-2011, 18:06:35   #47
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Apparently I was mistaken. Still need to haul.
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Old 01-02-2011, 15:59:29   #48
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Hmmm, well it is definitely a lot better now as I noticed after redoing my two planets and setting up another one. I do need to sit down and work out a concrete strategy when it comes to the planetary stuff because at the moment it is all over the place. I think I may just concentrate on certain high yield items and then just trade for what I want - though I would prefer the control of keeping it in house. Great tool here: PI Profit Calculator - good to note that the top two are both components of nanite repair paste. Actually that's a good suite of tools there, like the trade hubs ranking - I think I might be relocating my base of operations! I noticed Lonetrek (where I am) is the best trading region in the whole of EVE!

Been trying to invent T2 Industrial Blueprints, so far unsuccessfully. Luckily it's quite cheap if I fail, as I am in control of the supply chain up to that point.

Dabbled in some PvP (I'm flying frigates as they're cheap) recently in a cheap jump clone and suddenly realised how cheap the small rigs are to produce with the mountain of salvage I have, so I've bought a bunch of small rig BPOs.
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Old 11-02-2011, 20:34:02   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOBIUS View Post
Only a matter of time. The new avatar application makes you customise the whole body of your character.
Still, what about cockpit view? It's far more immersive to feel like you are actually sitting in your ship and piloting it than hanging back outside and staring at its ass.
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:19:29   #50
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So I was mining while reading, some assshat steals from my can in a mining-equipped cruiser. The guy's been around for three years, he knew what he was doing. He probably assumed I was strictly mining/industrial spec.

I went back to the base, switched to my battleship, came back and destroyed his ship pretty quickly. Very satisfying.
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