Counterglow Forums  

Go Back   Counterglow Forums > General Discussions > CounterPoint

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-06-2009, 12:35:13   #1
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
European Elections

I was going to say this was british politics but I guess some other countries have the same election?

With our current MP expenses scandals it seems we might be on course for a record low turnout! Woo.

God knows what the EuroMPs get away with on expenses.

I've voted already though, by post. Are the voting rules the same all through Europe?
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 12:42:54   #2
The Mad Monk
The REAL Nick Fury!
 
The Mad Monk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: S.H.I.E.L.D. Helicarrier
Did you vote Tory, or did you vote for more scandals?
__________________
At least he died doing what he loved. Insulting someone else's mother.

I will crush you. With happy little apples.

I am a happy little sig. virus. Please put me in your happy little sig. so I can continue to happily replicate. A little.

The Mad Monk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 13:03:18   #3
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
No I didn't vote Tory.

*indignant*
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 13:22:02   #4
The Mad Monk
The REAL Nick Fury!
 
The Mad Monk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: S.H.I.E.L.D. Helicarrier
What scandals are you looking forward to this year?
__________________
At least he died doing what he loved. Insulting someone else's mother.

I will crush you. With happy little apples.

I am a happy little sig. virus. Please put me in your happy little sig. so I can continue to happily replicate. A little.

The Mad Monk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 15:19:00   #5
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
I voted for the rent boys and alcoholics party.
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 16:18:53   #6
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
On reflection, a very CG party.
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 16:43:42   #7
Immortal Wombat
carbon-based
 
Immortal Wombat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: kthxbye
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Monk View Post
What scandals are you looking forward to this year?
Non-Tory ones
Immortal Wombat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 17:25:42   #8
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
No, the electoral system varies by country to harmonise with local systems. Here it's pretty much the same as for the national parliament (proportional, party lists-with-personal selection possible, 4% lower limit) but with only 18 parliamentarians.

The interesting thing that's emerging from Sweden in that the Pirate Party, a party that works for the legalisation of file sharing and increased internet privacy, looks extremely likely to gain one or even two seats. Personally, I'm very much engaged in a smaller party, the Feminist Initiative, which is also hoping for a seat - I spend pretty much all day campaigning for them.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown

Last edited by Scabrous Birdseed; 01-06-2009 at 17:28:24.
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 19:26:03   #9
*End Is Forever*
Registered User
 
*End Is Forever*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Counterglow
I think we're going to get more votes than Labour in Salford, which must be the first time for a while. A while being, I think, about 1935.
*End Is Forever* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 19:30:04   #10
Oerdin
Ho Ho Ho
 
Oerdin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In hiding.
Where is the moat which got cleaned?
__________________
Try http:/wordforge.net/index.php for news and debate.
Oerdin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 20:28:10   #11
Provost Harrison
Registered (alcohol ab)User
 
Provost Harrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: People's Republic of Salford
*End Is Forever*'s house, of course...of course when he is in power, he will be claiming for the upkeep of his portcullis, moat, thick city walls, several thousand serfs, grand castle and a small regiment of pikemen...
Provost Harrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2009, 08:17:07   #12
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scabrous Birdseed View Post
No, the electoral system varies by country to harmonise with local systems.
Funny because I only asked because our European system is so different to our other systems. Local councils and national elections we vote for individuals, Europeans we vote for Parties in a PR system.
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2009, 09:24:16   #13
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Quote:
Originally Posted by *End Is Forever* View Post
I think we're going to get more votes than Labour in Salford, which must be the first time for a while. A while being, I think, about 1935.
Your dear leader finally showing his colours when it comes to Europe: Tragic, unwise: Conservative grandees turn on David Cameron over plans for European Union

Just a salient few snippets...

Quote:
The fears of Britain's most senior serving diplomats, one of whom described the Tory plans as "bonkers", are only being voiced in private.
Quote:
"I do not understand a rigid commitment to impotence," he said. "I do not understand why [the Czech and Polish parties who will form a new group with the Tories] are preferable to Angela Merkel or Nicolas Sarkozy, or why they think the route to influence lies that way."
Quote:
The Tories have pledged to withdraw from the EPP-ED grouping, which consists of all the major centre-right parties within the EU. Instead, Cameron will establish a new group, principally with Poland's deeply conservative Law and Justice party, whose leaders have banned gay rights marches. It will also include the Czech ODS party, whose founder, Václav Klaus, disputes that global warming is man-made. Cameron met leaders of the ODS in the Czech Republic last night and in Warsaw tomorrow will meet leaders of the Law and Justice party.
Quote:
The Tories have also been talking to the Lavtian Fatherland and Freedom party, some of whose members attend ceremonies to commemorate a Latvian unit of the Waffen SS.
I mean, WTF!?
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2009, 09:30:17   #14
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
It is nice that I feel my vote counts in this one though. Like in council elections but unlike general elections 'cause we're a tory vs labour seat.
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2009, 09:42:53   #15
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Your vote always counts - even if its futility during the General Elections is to make a mockery of this country's undemocratic First Past the Post voting system.

I'm hoping that one positive to come out of this whole MPs scandal is that it appears those who have been calling for PR for decades are finally being heard by the public:

Also, hopefully, people will start questioning why the Euro elections are PR and the General Elections are not?

The government is supposed to refect the wishes of its people, er, apparently...
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2009, 14:44:43   #16
*End Is Forever*
Registered User
 
*End Is Forever*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Counterglow
Quote:
Your vote always counts - even if its futility during the General Elections is to make a mockery of this country's undemocratic First Past the Post voting system.
Well, if you'd prefer some dodgy backroom deal that nobody voted for, fair enough...

As for the EPP exit (although actually the Conservative Party left the EPP years ago and sits with the affialiated European Democrats - hence EPP-ED). I don't see what the problem with wanting to sit with like-minded groups in the European Parliament, and the EPP is by-and-large a group of Euro-federalist Christian Democrats.

As for the "extremist" nonsense, that's just a smokescreen either from the tiny minority of Euro-federalists within the Conservative Party (like Lord Patten) or by political opponents trying to make political capital. The Shadow Foreign Secretary has given an assurance that we won't sit with unacceptable parties, and in any case, the two major groupings in the European Parliament already contain their share of nutcases:

Within the "moderate" EPP, along with the Sarkozys and Merkels of this world, we have:

Here's the Deputy Speaker of the Polish Sejm rejoicing in a court's decision to deprive a lesbian mother of custody of her four-year-old daughter: "The court didn't bow to pressure from the aggressive homosexual lobby, which came to make a scene as usual" - http://monitoring.kph.org.pl/index.p...wsen&Itemid=14

Here's a blatantly homophobic poster from last the Italian general election ("Daddy and Papa? This isn't the family we want!") - http://farm1.static.flickr.com/37/12...b172c4.jpg?v=0

Here's the first minister of Hesse calling for deportations: "We have too many criminal young foreigners... Germany has had a Christian and Western culture for centuries, and foreigners who don't stick to our rules don't belong here" - http://www.spiegel.de/international/...525734,00.html

Here's the Austrian party whose Secretary General recently called for the banning of burqas, adding: "If we allow consultations to be held in Turkish, we will one day become Turkish ourselves" - http://wien.orf.at/stories/190038

All these parties are currently in the EPP. They are, respectively, the Polish Civic Platform, Forza Italia, the German CDU and the Austrian People's Party.

Of course, given Berlusconi's new alliance with the post-fascists in Italy, the Alleanza Nazionale have now joined the EPP as well - and these are the people we are being castigated for leaving...?

---

...and while we are on the subject, here are some of the friendly people that sit with the Labour Party in the PES:

Proinsias De Rossa MEP (Ireland)

Born Francis Ross, Proinsias De Rossa is PES MEP for the Dublin constituency and former member of the IRA. De Rossa was interned by the Irish government in the late 1950s for his involvement in the IRA’s border campaign – a campaign which caused the deaths of six British policemen.

Democratic Society Party (Turkey)

Despite being outside the European Union, the Party of the European Socialists has awarded the Turkish Democratic Society Party associate membership of their party. According to the European Union Institute for Security Studies, it is an “obvious secret that [the Democratic Society Party] is connected to the PKK, the militant terrorist organisation headed up by Abdullah Öcalan. Following a KPP terrorist attack in October 2007, Labour’s very own David Miliband had the following to say: “The PKK is trying to destroy the Turkish government's efforts to improve the situation of people in the south east of the country, provoke conflict between Turkey and Iraq and damage regional stability... I call on the international community to be unequivocal in its condemnation of PKK terrorism and to support Turkey in restoring stability”.

Self-Defence of the Republic (Poland)

The Self-Defence of the Republic party claims to represent the interests of poor, agricultural workers against big business. It is more famous, however, for the erratic behaviour of its leader Andrzej Lepper, the recipient of two honorary degrees from the anti-Semitic Interregional Academy of Personnel Management which counts, amongst others, American white supremacist David Duke as an honorary professor. According to the BBC, his party anthem once featured the line "this land is your land, this land is my land [and] we won't let anyone punch us in the face" – somewhat unsurprising, given Lepper’s multiple convictions for assault. The Party of the European Socialists welcomed a Self-Defence MEP into their grouping in December 2004.

Giulietto Chiesa MEP (Italy)

A former communist party official and television journalist, Giulietto Chiesa has sat with the British Labour delegation in the Party of European Socialists since 2006. Over the past five years, his parliamentary activities have largely focussed around organising screenings in Parliamentary buildings of his 9/11 conspiracy theory film “Zero” which alleges that the Pentagon was actually hit by a missile and that the Twin Towers were really detonated by explosives placed inside the building. Turning to other international events, Chiesa stated his opinion that “Russia did precisely what had to be done” during last year’s Georgia crisis.
*End Is Forever* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2009, 15:38:36   #17
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
Yes, let's compare two kooks from tiny parties and two freedom fighters from likewise tiny parties to the immense dark force of right wing extremism sweeping across Europe. Belusconi and Sarkozy and their more openly fascist allies/strategists are an immense threat against freedoms and human rights - asylum rights, workers' rights, gay rights, abortion rights.

This election is an opportunity to take the fight.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2009, 16:07:12   #18
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by *End Is Forever* View Post
...and while we are on the subject, here are some of the friendly people that sit with the Labour Party in the PES:
You're battling MOBIUS problems with the Conservatives bedfellows with Labour bedfellows? I'm sure he'll just say well fuck the Labour party too.

What nutters are ALDE mixed up with?

Anyway this kind of thing is one of the downsides of PR you end up with all the sensible(ish) parties in bed with loonies.
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 11:41:18   #19
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
u r all greasy twats, Lib Dems FTW

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/8077101.stm
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 11:49:10   #20
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funko View Post
You're battling MOBIUS problems with the Conservatives bedfellows with Labour bedfellows? I'm sure he'll just say well fuck the Labour party too.
Yeah, I thought that was funny too when I first read it...

I also like how Iaiaiaiain's excuse for turning to parties even more right wing than EPP-ED is by coming up with examples of the EPP-ED's extremism...

Iain, as you say yourself - you're joining a political grouping even more right-wing than Alleanza Nazionale!

Quote:
What nutters are ALDE mixed up with?
Dunno, it's led by a LibDem. At least our nutters are generally harmless...

Quote:
Anyway this kind of thing is one of the downsides of PR you end up with all the sensible(ish) parties in bed with loonies.
If you want a proper democracy - deal with it.
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 11:50:16   #21
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funko View Post
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:16:06   #22
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Anti-gay, climate change deniers: meet David Cameron's new friends

Seriously Iain, how can you support this policy - or David Cameron for that matter...?
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:17:52   #23
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOBIUS View Post
Anti-gay, climate change deniers
Tories?
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:19:39   #24
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Well yes, we know that, but generally they have learned the good sense of hiding those views from the public...
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:23:48   #25
Debaser
Badass Monkey
 
Debaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: In a tree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOBIUS View Post
Just a salient few snippets...
Quote:
The fears of Britain's most senior serving diplomats, one of whom described the Tory plans as "bonkers", are only being voiced in private.
I mean, WTF!?
Is Dizzie Rascal a senior serving diplomat now? How very modern.
Debaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:26:36   #26
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
No, he's just a rascal.
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:33:26   #27
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Aha, I knew it was out there somewhere: Many Tory MPs still sceptical on climate change

So, on the single most important issue to affect humans since we stopped living in caves...

Of those that responded:

32.72% of Tories are still sceptical.

12.08% of Labour.

11.76% of Lib Dems.

Where do you stand, Iain?
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:39:22   #28
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
And once you strip out the "don't knows":

19% of Tories.

7% of Labour.

4% of Liberal Democrats.

Clearly if you are worried at all about climate change, you should back the Lib Dems as the party that actually cares enough to give a damn!
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:44:01   #29
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
Wait, what a minority of party members believe doesn't affect the party policy does it? To be fair Cameron has been fairly good on climate change.
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:44:32   #30
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Parliamentary Climate Change Survey

Basically it gets worse when you look at it on a local government level - both the two main parties come out looking very bad.
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:46:24   #31
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
That question is open to interpretation as well. Your statistics abuse, and abuse, is the kind of negative party politics I hate.
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:46:53   #32
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
Unlike my comment about tories being anti-gay climate change deniers which was a cheap troll and therefore ok.
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:51:07   #33
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funko View Post
Wait, what a minority of party members believe doesn't affect the party policy does it? To be fair Cameron has been fairly good on climate change.
True, but it still betrays an underlying prejudice that can adversely affect climate change issues in those MP's constituencies - which is still bad in my book.

And yes, I suppose he has, on the face of it - imagine how shocking the Tory results would be if Cameron himself hadn't embraced the climate change issue, at least publicly.

However, I still remember the fiasco about his cycling to work followed by his car - or installing a pointless wind turbine on his roof. I don't honestly think he cares all that much about climate change past how many votes he's likely to gain from gullible people sucked in by his PR stunts...
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:54:54   #34
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
I don't think it'd make a difference to how most people vote TBH. People care about climate change as long as it doesn't affect their lives too much. They vote on jobs, how well off they feel, schools, health.
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:57:46   #35
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funko View Post
That question is open to interpretation as well. Your statistics abuse, and abuse, is the kind of negative party politics I hate.
It's a straightforward Y/N question IMO. I'm not trying to bend the stats round to say things I want them to - I don't actually need to. That's not abuse in my book.

The point is that this sort of info needs to be out in the public domain - or people end up voting for people they might not otherwise. Which I think is what Cameron is relying on with his new alliance of right-wing parties in Europe - your average 'get Labour out - the Tories look OK' voter will never bother finding out who his new European bedfellows are likely to be...
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 13:02:58   #36
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
I think that even more than Local Elections, people see the European elections as an opportunity to give the government a kicking in an arena that's not going to affect them that much.

And it's PR so on that basis, it's not get labour out, it's vote for anyone else. No 2 party excuse for the Lib Dems here.
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 13:04:31   #37
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funko View Post
I don't think it'd make a difference to how most people vote TBH. People care about climate change as long as it doesn't affect their lives too much. They vote on jobs, how well off they feel, schools, health.
Which is the whole problem - by the time it starts appreciably affecting them - it will already be too late!

That is why we rely on our politicians to understand the situation properly and educate the public on what needs to be done.

Which, incidentally, is why we're all doomed to failure. Well, I'll be mostly OK. I'm just thinking of children growing up now...
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 13:08:54   #38
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
No-one's going to win votes telling people they have to give up their car, can't buy new PCs, TVs, ready meals or that they need to pay four times as much for their food and electricity. They'd rather work out ways to strip mine the moon for He3 or whatever.
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 13:09:32   #39
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funko View Post
I think that even more than Local Elections, people see the European elections as an opportunity to give the government a kicking in an arena that's not going to affect them that much.

And it's PR so on that basis, it's not get labour out, it's vote for anyone else. No 2 party excuse for the Lib Dems here.
Well, I was thinking more about the GE. But yes, you have basically hit the nail on the head - Cameron is basically going to get away with his ties to extremist European parties - because not enough people will notice!

I myself hardly know a think about European politics, for example.

However, to me, who he hangs around with provides a vital clue as to what really makes him tick - finally, I think, you are beginning to see the real 'Dave'...
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 13:11:00   #40
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
He hasn't announced any policies yet has he? If he did I missed them.
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 13:18:49   #41
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funko View Post
No-one's going to win votes telling people they have to give up their car, can't buy new PCs, TVs, ready meals or that they need to pay four times as much for their food and electricity. They'd rather work out ways to strip mine the moon for He3 or whatever.
You're right. I don't think you should try. Most of the positive changes an individual can make should actually save them money - hundreds of pounds a year!

It seems to me that when people talk of the carrot and stick approach - no one has even bothered with the carrot: Positive education and enablement on how people can improve their lives, health, bank balances - which actually, coincidentally, happen to reduce carbon emissions.

Like Cardiff Museum, for example. Until the carbon trust did an audit of their systems they were in blissful ignorance of how much money they could save - in the end it was something like £10k a month!!!

Money ultimately that, as taxpayers, we save on our bills.
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 13:21:11   #42
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funko View Post
He hasn't announced any policies yet has he? If he did I missed them.
EXACTLY!

He's relying on Gordon and Labour to cut their own throats and for the public to vote him into the vacuum without actually checking what he's about!
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 13:22:27   #43
Funko
Pubs Minister
 
Funko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Banned
Of course, why not? It's working just fine. Worst thing he could do would be to tell people he was going to do something they didn't like.
Funko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 13:31:41   #44
MOBIUS
Ho! Ho! Ho!
 
MOBIUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goosestepping all over Greece!
Hey, I agree from a strategic POV - however I personally could not vote for a person whose policies I knew nothing about...

Which is why I find Cameron innately untrustworthy. In that vein he reminds me too much of Blair before he got elected - someone else I disliked the moment they came to my attention.
__________________
"If Greg walks around our store with his hood on, he'll miss lots of special offers." TESCO - Gaylord Branch

Last edited by MOBIUS; 03-06-2009 at 13:34:28.
MOBIUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 18:41:21   #45
The Shaker
Bag of Cabbages
 
The Shaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The big X
So far locally i'll probably vote for the guy who actually came to my door and I chatted to, rather than the current incumbents who havn't even bothered to send junk through the door, or the other party (whose leaflet with headline 'This is Exeter not Westminster' was distributed with a leaflet of support from the local MP).


Euopean wise....does anyone give a shit... I'll be going for some independant probably.
I think Katie Hopkins from Apprentice lack of fame is one of the candidates.
The Shaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 19:07:51   #46
paiktis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
cancel

Last edited by paiktis; 05-06-2009 at 05:54:39.
paiktis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 19:15:23   #47
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
Upwards of 60%-80% of all local government decisions are implementations of EU directives. Now, in Greece you may just ignore what the EU tells you, but here in Sweden what directives come through make a huge difference.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 19:19:50   #48
paiktis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
We don't ignore it. No country in the EU has the capacity to ignore EU directives. They are translated into national law automatically. What I'm saying is that EU decisions are still being taken through national concensus and not so much through supra-national bodies, such as is the european parliement.

Last edited by paiktis; 04-06-2009 at 19:22:41.
paiktis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 19:27:24   #49
paiktis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Then again, maybe you're right. We don't respect even national law. You probably are more "obidient" (not saying this in a bad sense) to the law. Yeah, I guess the european parliement can initiate legislative procedures. But there's a bottleneck in the council of ministers. That's where most decisions are validated but only though national (aka national governmental) basis.

Anyway, I don't know. I think... I don't know. Maybe I'll rethink it.
paiktis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 20:21:12   #50
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
The Parliament has considerably more to say than they used to, too. Sure, the big stuff is out of the parliaments reach, but look at the recent telecoms package - a few votes made a huge difference to its contents.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bullshit, europeans are retarded, politics, serious
Forum Jump

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 15:53:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© Counterglow 2001-2012. All rights reserved.