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Old 06-03-2007, 05:24:25   #1
Greg W
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EU III

Or Europa Universalis III. Thought I may as well start a new thread for it.

For HK and Chris, here's my take on trade (with some help from the EUIII Wiki.

Each province has a resource. From wheat to sugar to gold, just click on the province and it'll tell you what resource it has.

And then there's Centres of Trade (CoTs - or more correctly CsoT). A Centre of Trade is where merchants meet to buy and sell resources. They're scattered around, but all up there's about 10 in Europe and the Mediteranean.

So, each province sends its resource to its respective COT, and each resource has a dollar (or ducat) value attributed to it. The CoT says "I have this much value in resources, come get it". So, you send Merchants to the CoT and they vie for the money on offer.

There's space for 20 merchants at each CoT, and I am not 100% sure if the money is evenly distributed, but it's split between each merchant there in some way. There may be a larger slice for having more merchants, or not. But each country can have as many as 5 merchants at a CoT. At least until you get to trade lvl 7 and can form monopolies with a 6th merchant.

Anyway... When you send a merchant to a CoT, if there's less than 20 merchants there, he just jumps straight in and tries to set up shop. His success is apparently based on:
Base chance: 35%
Prestige rank (-10% to 10%)
Stability multiplied by 5 (-15% to 15%)
Monarch Administrative Skill multiplied by 3 (3% to 18%)
Trade Efficiency divided by 2

If there's already 20 there, he tries to compete away an existing merchant from another nation. The chance is apparently based on:
Base: 50%
Stability (-3% to 3%)
Monarch Administrative Skill (1% to 9%)
Trade Efficiency divided by 2
Badboy points reduce competitiveness in foreign CoTs by 1% each
Owning a CoTs with non-accepted cultures reduce competitiveness in foreign CoTs by 15% each
Lucky AI nations get an additional 10% bonus to compete chance.

You add up your merchants score and theirs, and come up with a percentage chance to knock them out. BUT, and here's the rub, all you do is kick them out, you don't replace them. Which is why it's always a good idea to send at least two merchants to a full CoT. One to compete away, and another to try and get his foot in.

And that's pretty much it. People on the forums (and I have seen the screenshots) state that they can get 5 merchants in every CoT and keep them up reasonably well. Which brings in massive amounts of money. If you're not sending merchants, you're getting no money from trade - the AI doesn't fill in for you unfortunately (AFAIK).

I mentioned monopolies earlier - they're another story. If you can get tech level 7, and a 6th merchant, you monopolise the trade, getting a much richer share of that CoT. The downside - normally when AI competes for spots in CoTs it's somewhat random who they pick on. When you have a monopoly, it's always you they pick on. From what I read, keeping a monopoly in place can be very hard.

A few things I noticed. Playing as Castille, every time I formed a colony in the New World, it went to my CoT (Castille has one in Andalucia(?)). Which is kind of good, as sending Merchants takes time and money, and apparently if the CoT is close by, it's cheaper, less time consuming, and also easier if it's your CoT (though that's not reflected in the figures above).
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Last edited by Greg W; 06-03-2007 at 05:27:12.
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Old 06-03-2007, 05:41:39   #2
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Oh, and as a reply to Chris' last post:
Quote:
From what i have seen about combat, don't bother making war unless you have cannon and leaders.
Well, it is okay before you get the tech for cannons, but they help massively in seiges.

Quote:
You can get more than vasselization, I have built England into Great Britain by defeating Scotland a few times, the last two wars I demanded all territory leaving them with just one province, and waited for France to again attack (they were allied) so i could annex the last of it.
Yeah, I was reading up a bit on it. In order to force annex you need:
You may only demand annexation when you have a 100% war score.
You must currently occupy every province that is owned by the enemy country.
If the enemy owns more than one province, you can only demand annexation if it is a pagan tribe.
If the enemy is not a pagan tribe, you can only demand annexation if the country owns only one province.

Quote:
The easiest way to colonize is to exterminate the locals, this can be tough early. But once I got the hang of it, it becomes simple.
Yes and no. If they have low aggressiveness (it's rated 1-9) of 3 or less, it can be beneficial not to exterminate them. I picked up 1500 free citizens by not exterminating one province which had that many locals. Plonking a garrison on the province in question helps too.

Quote:
The best thing to do is to only have POWERFUL allies, little shits drag yoiu into war and do not help.
Yeah, I am beginnign to notice that. Helpful if you want wars against other small countries, but not otherwise.

Quote:
Because I took Hamberg early (they declared war on me) I had a toe hold in germany, and managed to be not only the controller of the Pope but the Holy Roman Emperor as well.

These two titles always make me supreme in any alliance, and since I control the seas Britain cannot be touched, but I can get my Allies (Austria, portugual and Milan) to do a lot of heavy lifting.
I have been elected Papal Controller a few times (without trying), but I haven't played with HRE yet.

Quote:
Somehow I inherited the throne of Poland which gave me 2 provinces in eastern Europe.
You would have arranged or agreed to a Royal Marriage with them.

Quote:
One thing I don't like is you can't trade provinces, you can only sell them.
Yeah, that is a shame I must say.

Quote:
The Frogs kept demanding Calais early, they occupied it, instead of a costly invasion of France I simply blockaded them, and sized Jamaca and all their small colonies in the Americas, they soon accepted peace, now they love me (and I still own Calais).

There appears to be no real penalty for staying at war, so NEVER give in to occupying bullies, many of them attacked me and demanded Ducats which I never provided, i simply waited for my allies to start hammering them, the HRE is a very effective coaltion.
Actually, War Weariness is reflected in the revolt risk for your provinces. It probably won't bother your core provinces, but if you start occupying enemy territories, it can make them much more likely to revolt. But that is the only effect I am aware of.
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Old 06-03-2007, 17:19:43   #3
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Wow, read this all and you could easily speak about EU2 without noticing the difference

Trade works exactly the same as before, makes me wonder what the innovations are..
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Old 06-03-2007, 17:35:19   #4
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Ah, ok, read the "What is new in EU3?" section in the link Greg posted

If this one is true
Quote:
The event engine has undergone a drastic change. Rather than EU2's largely country-tag-based predetermined events, EU3's event engine has been rewritten from the ground up, relying primarily on underlying cause and effect criteria. This allows events to trigger when they are contextually appropriate for any nation that satisfies the trigger conditions. This is essentially a blend of the best features and functionality of the event engines of EU2, CK, Vicky, and HoI2.
it absolutely rocks.
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Old 06-03-2007, 22:17:28   #5
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Yeah, the events are not linked at all to real history. In my game England has colonized the east coast of south america and lithuania and I have control of most of North america. As for the wars, theya re almost always by large countries gobbling up smaller ones. If you are in an alliance you willg et dragged into war after war until your ally borders no small country, and you have to take them over/annex/vassal them to do that. Its pretty hard to get big countries to fight, I had to get a REALLY bad reputation for it to happen, multiple wars, broken truces, annexations, vassals, spamming merchants, sending warnings and insults.


I started a new game and played about 100 years as castille.

I still feel its a big step back from HOI2. Its ok, and with the land expansion the game has some features that you could never do in HOI, but the interface is clunkier, getting any useful info is harder, diplomacy is interesting, etc.
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Old 06-03-2007, 22:55:33   #6
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I have to play more now that I have that trade info, I had no clue how it worked.

Basically I was making money by making improvements and colonizing so i didn't much care about trade.

I never played the earlier EU series, so I had no pre concieved notions on this game.

About getting natives into citizens, its a 'who cares' as the natives revolt and cause problems, I lost quite a few colonies from this before I decided to kill em all and let god sort em out.

About the HRE, I didn't do anything to get elected head of it, it just told me I was the big cheese, I presume because Britain is the #1 nation in the world.

As for cores and revolts, I noticed that over time colony cities becomes cores and rarely revolt, its places taken from others that love to revolt.

I was going to write my review tonight, but now I want to try the trade stuff first.
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Old 06-03-2007, 23:53:11   #7
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Trust me on the natives thing. Just try it with a native province that has a low aggressiveness (3 or below seems best, but 4 and even 5 can be made to work with patience and a garrison). After you get that first colony set up, it's a cake walk (in most cases - I won't say there's no exceptions). And by the time you get it to a city size, you'll appreciate the extra 1500 pop you just got for free.

The garrison is the real factor if they're aggressiveness 3-5 though. Even if they do revolt, the garrison kicks their arse and you won't lose the colony. But in my last game, I have now had 3 out of 5 colonies I have turned into cities not need exterminating. The other two, which had aggressiveness 5, needed to be wiped out, but that was cool, cos they had gold.

Oh, and with trade. Started another game last night, and I am having sooooo much more a difficult time with trade for some reason. I'm struggling to keep one CoT filled with 5 merchants, let alone the three or four I managed last game. Seems every time I get ahead, one of mine gets knocked off yet again.
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Old 07-03-2007, 03:15:10   #8
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Well, I have something like 30 or 40 colonies at this point, and they work fine.
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Old 07-03-2007, 07:41:34   #9
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Oh, it works by wiping them out, and in some cases I do for the hell of it. But if there's a native population of, say, 1000, if you can get to a city sized colony, those 1000 natives are added to your 1000 settlers for a 2000 pop. And some provinces have much more than 1000 - the most I have seen is 4500, give or take.

About the only good thing about wiping them out is that you don't need to keep a force to guard against uprisings. And you get an improved chance at succeeding when you send colonists. Weigh that against that much free pop, and if I don't have to kill them, I won't.

Ialso don't tend to go running any more than 2-3 colonies at the one time. Mainly cos you're better off having one size 10 city than 10 size 1 colonies. Except of course if you need to grab territories before someone else does.
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Old 07-03-2007, 12:06:28   #10
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Sigh, I know I'll have to buy this game.
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Old 07-03-2007, 12:33:27   #11
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Since the game is almost 400 years, I believe its better to get as many colonies as possible.

They may all be large cities before long.
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Old 07-03-2007, 12:42:50   #12
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One bad thing about colonies. If someone you're at war with lands troops on your colony, they suddenly own it. No seige, no end of war negotiations, they just own it. Just something else to consider, though I do see your point, and with that way of playing, I can see why you'd not bother with keeping the natives around.

Just completed a war with France, who picked on my ally, Portugal. They were also at war with England at the time, so I thought I'd be ok, especially as I way outstripped them navally, and with only three provinces to defend, it would be hard for them to get in behind me.

Absolutely smashed them. At first anyway. But then the constant seiges kept wearing down my attacking forces, until it looked like France would be able to get back at me. Fortunately just at that time, they offered peace, so I grabbed it, as well as the Spanish province they previously conquered off Aragon, and one of theirs as well.

Unfortunately they got to keep two of Portugal's provinces, as me signing the peace treaty meant that Portugal's war score counted towards mine, being the senior partner in the alliance.
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Old 07-03-2007, 15:03:26   #13
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I tend to concentrate on two-three colonies at a time, adding peasants until they reach city size.

Since I went for the new world doctrone early, I beat everybody to America and had cities there before anyone else even had a colony.

Right now I own all east of the missisippi as cities, as well as cuba, hispanola and most the winward islands including trinidad.

I also own Bermuda (took it off the frogs) as well as constantine and algiers which I converted to my religion.

In Europe I now control all of the german North Sea provinces and all of Denmak except Copenhagen, I even own two Norwegian provinces, the Muscovites own the rest.

My only other colony is in west africa where I have the Grain coast, seirra leone and the gold cost as core cities.

I found a great place to send merchants, now that I understand how to use them, China. China has four trade centers, I have 14 merchants in them right now, the euro markets are just to crowded.
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Old 10-03-2007, 15:37:02   #14
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Well I am done witht eh game at least until a few patches come out past the 1.1.

A nice bug that hit me, corrupt save games that corrupt the game itself requiring a reinstall.

Suddenly you may lose control of your economy, the sliders do nothing at all, although the numbers change. Load the same game as a different country, same deal, starta new game as any country same deal. Remove and reinstall fixes it, unless you put one of the old savegames in and try to play again.

Oh well. Maybe versuon 1.5 will work.
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Old 10-03-2007, 15:40:44   #15
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Oh, plus the game is too easy. On the hardest setting I was castille, had grenada, port, and aragon as my vassals and allies, had all of the americas explored, annexed all the tribes, fully colonized most of the US east coast and great lakes, colonized ALL the n/s american gold mining regions, and had just started a colony in the far east. All in 80 years...

Not to mention I modded the game so the non-europe countries didn't get penalties to everything they did, so it wasn't simply europe canwalk over all others.
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Old 11-03-2007, 00:27:10   #16
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I finished teh review game, it is way to easy, and I didn't get a good feel for teh history, taking out the historical events without randomizing a chance for them sucked.

There was no 30 years war, none of the long european wars like the 7 years war, odd nations like Milan had colonies in the Americas, no American Revolution, nothing.

It was ok to play but got really dull as it went along, many of the improvements to provinces were heavily expensive at first and the game doesn't explain their value well,

Its an ok game, not a great one, a step backwards from Doomsday and Vickyt for sure.
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Old 11-03-2007, 01:03:43   #17
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One thing HK, had you tried a large scale war against one of the major European powers? Comments I have seen on the forums (and AARs) lead me to believe that that's where the true challenge lies.

Colonisation does seem way too easy if you can manage to stay peaceful for long periods and don't go off conquering half of Europe. And Castille is a particularly easy country to settle the new World. I had a very easy game as Castille doing just what you did, but then playing now as Saxony, it's a completely different story (though I do think that becoming HRE is somewhat unbalanced).

And yeah, it's deliberately supposed to be not historical like EUII from what I read. It's supposed to be an alternate "what if" type game. The American Revolution is in the game, but like all other events, it's random if it goes off (they all have a MTTH value).

Just like there's a Brazillian independance event, an event to make Great Britain (and then events for England, Scotland and possibly Wales and Ireland to break away again - though not in their historical provinces necessarily).

I was also getting a little bored playing as Castille, but as I said, playing now as Saxony is making it interesting all over again.
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:36:35   #18
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Yeah, the previous game that I stopped playing to give everyone equal tech footing I had taken over about half of europe, all of north africa, and was raping the ottoman empire.
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:38:19   #19
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Oh and the reason? I allied with other nations and kept getting drug into wars until my bad boy rating hit bottoma nd the major powers all declared war on me. I had no choice but to gobble them up. I did vassalize more in that game since I couldn't keep my order really high.
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Old 11-03-2007, 04:09:52   #20
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Who were you playing in that previous game out of curiosity?

One thing that I have discovered is that going to war doesn't effect your babdoy. It's only taking (or inheriting) provinces that does. Even making someone your vassal doesn't seem to effect BB much (if at all, I can't remember 100%).

In this game as Saxony, my rep got down to something along the lines of "rather bad" - 20 or so BB points after I inherited Brandenburg. And Austria kept dragging me into wars in which I'd usually take a province or two. Then I discovered that if I honoured my alliance, I would lose stability (and as the HRE, I have stability coming out of every orifice), but not BB. So I'd go fight some battles for something to do, but wouldn't bother taking any provinces.

I must admit though that I am by no means a "powergamer", so I am not pushing the AI all that hard, especially as I haven't played any of the previous games, so I'm still learning. This is my third game, and the first in which I have actually realised that in peacetime I should set my maintenance sliders down for my army.

Perhaps a good reason why it's a challenge to me. Tho as I said, some of the AARs I have been reading, the AI seems to put up a decent fight if you're evenly matched. /shrug
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Old 11-03-2007, 04:52:50   #21
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people want to conquer the world, so they make it easy

they don't make it so it is hard work to just stay independent.. and really impressive if you conquer 1-2 other countries

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Old 12-03-2007, 13:31:31   #22
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Picked up this (along with Sims 2: Seasons ) this w-e.
First impression is not bad
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Old 13-03-2007, 16:19:48   #23
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My review can be found here.
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Old 14-03-2007, 17:08:20   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fistandantilus
Picked up this (along with Sims 2: Seasons ) this w-e.
First impression is not bad
Not enjoying Seasons? Hasn't added much imo, but haven't played much of it.

As for EU3, maybe I will play again after some more patches and some nice player made mods, like those that are out for HOI2.


Greg, see if you can find a torrent of HOI2, test it and buy it if you like it. the difference is noticable. EU3 is a step backwards.
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