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Old 07-10-2006, 03:32:22   #1
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BSG begins year three

Watched the two hour premire, some interesting notes.

This season the Cylons are like Nazis running the warsaw ghetto, some wanting to exterminate the humans and others wanting to convert them, even by force, to their god.

The final scene where Tom and Rosiland appear to be executed appeared to have been stolen from the great escape.

The Sharon cylon is now again a galactica officer.

Tigh's ho wife is not only banging a cylon but now has betrayed the resistance.

Apollo got fat, not sure if its a fat suit or if the actor actually got fat.

Starbuck seems to believe the little girl is really hers, I think its a trick.

I knew Geta was the man inside giving info, it was too obvious.

Baltar may indeed be a cylon.
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Old 09-10-2006, 20:23:50   #2
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Fat suit on Apollo.

And an interesting beginning to the season. Not sure I've fully recovered from the bullshit that was the great time leap forward, but I'll be sticking around.
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:50:00   #3
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A lot of people are saying the show is now a metaphore of Iraq, with the suicide bombings (which are stupid.)
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Old 10-10-2006, 11:42:44   #4
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I would say there are certainly parallels.
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Old 10-10-2006, 20:24:24   #5
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In so far as there are suicide bombings and occupation, but I think that's where the parallels end. The people who want to compare it to Iraq are the people that call everyone fascists and draw parallels between Iraq and road construction.

It much closer to Nazi occupation of Europe than anything else.
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Old 11-10-2006, 04:35:01   #6
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That is my opinion also, New caprica seems like the Warsaw ghetto.
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Old 11-10-2006, 17:41:30   #7
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The people who want to compare it to Iraq are the people that call everyone fascists and draw parallels between Iraq and road construction.
Are you denying there's a connection? Filthy Bushists and your Transportation Department cronies are screwing the world over for oil and orange cones.
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Old 11-10-2006, 18:02:23   #8
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Oh, you could have done better than that. You should have said the government is delaying road construction so that traffic is worse and more gas is used. Thereby screwing the world over for oil. I award you no points.

One thing I've been thinking about constantly is how the hell they're going to get the people off the planet and back on the ships. How do you evacuate several thousand people to space when your rescue force is out numbered 5-2?

Of course, maybe death incarnate Tigh will single handedly (and eyedly) smash all the cylons like an angry, geriatric Incredible Hulk.
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Old 12-10-2006, 06:36:24   #9
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That would be cool.
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Old 14-10-2006, 04:43:57   #10
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That would be fucking awesome.

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Old 14-10-2006, 16:11:32   #11
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Ok, second episode of the year is done, and they have ramped up the effectiveness of the nhumans considerably.

The Cylons are inept moropns, easily gunned down by the humans.

The Dean Stockwell Cylon is a moron in all versions, and we now learn that eash rebirth is getting more difficult for the cylons.

What is with the Lucy Lawless Cylon knowing the Sharon baby lives, just because an oracle told her?

The Sharon good cylon will eventuially find out Adama lied to her and I bet she tries to kill him again.

Baltar is a broken man, but its clear that dopey blonde cylon loves that loser.
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Old 21-10-2006, 20:17:44   #12
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OK, the rescue is done.

Pegasus burned up over new Caprica, but at least Lee is a hero again.

The scene were Col Tigh kills his wife was one of the best in the series, they really loved each other, it was terribly tragic.

Starbuck proves she is a dumb bitch again as the little girl wasn't even her daughter.

Geta should have killed Baltar on the spot.

Blatar was actually a sympathetic character at the end, a man always in over his head who wants nothing else but to die for his mistakes.

Tom turned into a good guy and someone Rosinlind can trust in the clutch.

The Cylons have baby Hera, how long before they use this against Sharon?

Olmos is fantastic in this series, his Bill Adama is the best rounded Sci Fi Captain ever.
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Old 27-10-2006, 01:51:12   #13
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Alright. I finally got caught up on the last 2 episodes.

Who knew that Ellen Tigh was actually a good woman? Misguided, sure. But good at heart. And Tigh is a completely broken man now. He's going to drink even drop of alcohol in the fleet now.

Pegasus jumping in and wrecking 3 baseships in a final sacrifice was great. But damn the cylons suck now. Why the hell was Galactica even running in the first place if it could easily stand up to 2 baseships? Adama only got worried when 2 more showed up.

Also, it was obvious from the beginning that the Cylons were playing Starbuck, and she fell for it hook, line and sinker. She is indeed, a dumb fuck.

I'm very interested in seeing how things play out from here. They've got my full confidence back after it was damaged from the whole 1 year later jump.
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Old 31-10-2006, 15:49:48   #14
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gonna be some big time conflict between the New Caprican survivors and the fleet jockeys. Starbuck has already lost her god damn mind, and Tom Zarek remains an evil bastard.
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Old 07-11-2006, 11:46:03   #15
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finally caught up yesterday night with the last one (6)...

"The Cylons have baby Hera, how long before they use this against Sharon?" yep, I hope the scenarists don't use that rope too obvioulsy

"Tom Zarek remains an evil bastard" not sure, I'm ambivalent, he's got guts, and his offer of special courts was really positive (taking the dirty work off the president, really similar to Germany in 1919 when they had to put down the spartacus mouvement)

5 remaning unseen Cylons: pretty cool, opens up a lot of new options, the obvious one being Baltar and his ability to project himself. I was very disappointed by Baltar but I still think he'll redeem himself

The infected beacon: quite intriging as well

new caprica was heavily inspired by varsaw but even more nazi France (the milicia sub plots and the "epuration" was straight from the fight between the FFF and the Vichy Milices)

the human bombings were obviously drawn from Iraq and Israel: how far are you ready to go when you think your cause if just. I was very impressed by the show ability to underline that in a very adult way (far from "the terrorists are not humans" blabla).

Fat suit: yes, very probably

The rescue mission with the Galactica dropping like a stone and throwing vipers in the wind was absolutely great, and the Pegasus bowling was very satisfying as well

Overall the show remains absolutely great, and easily holds number one spot at the maroules' these days (I didn't think my wife would get into it but she did - she's a big fan of Geta and Chief)
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Old 07-11-2006, 13:54:19   #16
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just thinking about it, after the last episode we have the proof Baltar is not a cylon
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Old 07-11-2006, 14:07:48   #17
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We've got a pretty good idea. So far as we know now. There are 5 more models. He could still be one of those. Extremely doubtful, but still possible.
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Old 07-11-2006, 14:12:15   #18
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Also, the scene of Galactica falling and jumping out again was one of the most awesome special effect scenes I've ever scene on TV.
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Old 07-11-2006, 14:25:59   #19
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Quote:
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We've got a pretty good idea. So far as we know now. There are 5 more models. He could still be one of those. Extremely doubtful, but still possible.

my wife came with an interesting idea: the cylons don't want to talk about the 5 because they've split and are trying to help the humans... maybe then Baltar would be one the the "good 5" (without knowing it of course), who have planted the beacon and made sure they would be immune
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Old 07-11-2006, 14:31:42   #20
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That would be a very cool idea. I think we would have seen something of them by now though if that was the case. Especially after the whole Love movement that started when Six bashed Xena's head in with a rock. Still, cool idea.

I think another possibility is that the other 5 are flawed models and have been taken offline and put in storage or what ever you want to call it.
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Old 07-11-2006, 15:41:21   #21
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methink the scenarists have bigger plans for the 5, this is just too good to pass (i.e. having the viewers wondering whether one of their favorite character is one of the 5) plus the blonde sex godess had a curious look on her face when she said "we do not talk about them", a build up which probably means they're sawing the seeds for a bigger story coming up

so good guys, rejects that have gone awol, prophets that left the others to get closer to God, else?
I bet you we're going to know more about it soon...
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Old 07-11-2006, 16:07:59   #22
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I hope so. I don't need this turning into another Lost like pile of shitty questions never being answered.

I will say that I think that beacon was planted by humans. Either as a weapon to cover their tracks (they had to be aware of the scrolls too, right?) or as a waypoint for humans. It's possible the virus was a built in defence, or just an accident of incompatible technology. I suspect we'll find out more about that this week.

Now that Baltar is among the Cylons, I hope he wreaks as much havoc upon them as he did upon the humans. He's off to a good start. By not reporting the existence of the beacon to the Cylons so they could recover or destroy it, he's handed a powerful weapon to his former people.
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Old 07-11-2006, 16:37:47   #23
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funny, in terms of AD&D alignment, Baltar is "pure neutral" (preserving the balance by always helping the other side)... or is it "chaotic good" (good heart but too obsessed by self preservation)...
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Old 13-11-2006, 16:51:25   #24
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after episode 7



great episode, but there was one side of the moral debate that wasn't covered
That Helo decides according to "what he believes in" is fine, and that he believes "we'd be like them if we did commit holocaust" is possibly right, still he took a decision on his own, for the sake of the whole of humanity (who could be wiped out the next morning)... there was nobody (yet) to point that he's not elected, he didn't consult anybody, etc. You can't decide on other people's survival, however strong your feelings are.

I felt that was treated a bit quickly, without much suspence (who could believe in the magic silver bullet eliminating the threat not even half way in the season...)
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Old 13-11-2006, 18:07:11   #25
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I thought this episode was the weakest of the season so far. That was a half-assed morality debate about genocide. Both sides completely left out important details as to why this isn't your typical case of genocide.

And they could have added so much more depth to the story if they wouldn't have been fucking around so much (both this episode and last) with Baltar's existential mind fucking and it's effect on Cylon religion. If Athena is immune to the virus, then she could just kill herself and give the Cylons the cure, or how is the virus going to infect all Cylons when only 1 resurrection ship is in range. It all just seemed like a excuse to turn Helo into a big, dumb, Cylon sympathizer.
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Old 13-11-2006, 18:58:15   #26
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agreed

what rankles badly is indeed the lack of debate on the status of the cylons: there are cases for saying they are just machines, one for saying they are sentient beings, one for saying they are almost "humans" and have a soul (but if they are, does it mean we're Gods?)

since that debate wasn't exposed, the following discussion was a bit empty

potentially such a discussion would be great for scenaristic purpose: it happened during the 16th century about indians (do they have a soul?), and it became a great book, and a great play

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Gi...Sep%C3%BAlveda
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Old 13-11-2006, 19:04:46   #27
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I keep thinking about this episode and all I come up with is more questions. At best, none of them have answers. Yet. At worst, they contradict things that have gone on in past episodes.

I think I'm starting to hate this episode.

At least it had more Racetrack. I like Racetrack.
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Old 14-11-2006, 05:20:16   #28
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Helo is a dickhead, they had a chance to wipe out those killer machines but since like to stick his prick in one what's left of humanity has to deal with them.


Helo should join Jammer in the airlock.
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Old 20-11-2006, 09:31:23   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by maroule

potentially such a discussion would be great for scenaristic purpose: it happened during the 16th century about indians (do they have a soul?), and it became a great book, and a great play

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Gi...Sep%C3%BAlveda
Well, with the exception that it was about slavery, not genocide and the native americans were a bit less aggressive than the cylons.. but yes, some sort of discussion on this instead of Helo disobeying orders and take decisions on his own for the sake of humanity would be better.

We already have a dickhead who always questions orders and decisions from above in starbuck and that's enough imo.

Besides, the whole "if we do this we'd lose our humanity" argument is very "star trek"ish.
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Old 20-11-2006, 10:08:38   #30
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I think the scenarists are former start trek guys

yes I take your point about slavery, but the underlining argument was really about do they have a soul (for religious types, or a human like conscience for the rest of us). That's pretty much what they had to assert in order to discuss about the idea of an holocaust (you can't holocaust without it).


Last episode: pretty good, even if the whole episode looked a bit spurious at times. I especially like how they have fleshed out the Saul (sol?) character in this season.
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Old 20-11-2006, 12:28:44   #31
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Tigh developed in one of the characters I like the most, that old drunk bastard is tough.
Even starbuck trusts him so much she went to Saul (and not the admiral) to tell the story that the cylons allowed Bulldog to escape.

Now when will they discover that there is a cylon model per colony and baltar is the 13th (the earth one) and start hailing him as god?
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Old 20-11-2006, 13:07:30   #32
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Average episode overall. I see we're in the humanize the Cylon period of the show now. With the requisite "The War was Our Fault" plotline.
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Old 20-11-2006, 13:14:15   #33
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which is somehow ironic
we're not sure the Cylons are "humans", but they sure wouldn't be human at all if they hadn't attacked us... victimise others whenever you can get a benefit out of it has certainly been a guiding principle of humanity...

on Adama's idea he caused the war, it is a bit candid indeed: after a first war we've been told "created a lot of damage on both sides", the cylons didn't need a minor armistice line infridgement to conceive hate and prepare an attack
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Old 20-11-2006, 15:34:24   #34
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The attack must have already been well into the planning (and indeed execution, what with all the deep cover moles being planted) by the time Bulldog's mission was done.

We know that the attacks were 2+ years ago (the exact amount of time is impossible to say). Bulldog's misison was 3 years ago. The Cylons had to have been on the Colonies for more than the 8 or 10 (or possibly fewer) months between the two events to infiltrate everything so thoroughly.
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Old 06-12-2006, 09:01:16   #35
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It seems I forgot to say anything about the last episode; let's do it now: Kara Thrace is a drunken slut.
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:50:34   #36
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yeah, I can't help but not feeling very interested by what happens to her

this is the soft underbelly of the season, quality is variable, but I have full trust in the writers to do something fantastic with the last third of the season
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:47:14   #37
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I hate Kara Thrace. And I did enjoy Helo beating Apollo's ass.

Another thing I hate....Flashbacks.
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Old 08-12-2006, 10:21:35   #38
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Apollo is such a numb nut.

Kira really got him with that sloppy second comment.
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Old 18-12-2006, 09:31:28   #39
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The last two episodes were very strong I felt
The last one in particular got me on the edge of my seat, again...


I still like Baltar I felt really bad for him
I'm still hoping for a redemption
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Old 18-12-2006, 11:10:31   #40
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I don't see that happening, but there's always hope. I like Baltar too
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Old 18-12-2006, 12:59:27   #41
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There's nothing Baltar can do to be redeemed. Nothing.
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Old 18-12-2006, 13:22:58   #42
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aaahhh, time for a bet

I bet Baltar will be redeemed. It could be in any of the following way:
- an heroic deed saving the fleet or humankind (possibly resulting in his death - but I doubt it, he's too valuable a character)
- the revelation of his higher destiny (13th cylon, one of the 5, an "earthian", etc), that goes above his misdeeds (which are not so bad after all - he had a gun on his head to sign the execution papers back on New Caprica... which makes his decision/signature void)
- Coming back with the kid
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Old 18-12-2006, 14:03:06   #43
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Forget his crimes on New Caprica. He'll always have to answer for the near genocide of the human race. That's his greatest crime, and the one that can never be atoned for.

Saving one kid or even saving the fleet does not make that go away.
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Old 18-12-2006, 14:41:56   #44
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"near genocide of the human race"

are you gilty of a crime you don't willingly commit, and you don't know about?

same thing that was reproached to Kat (cat?) the fighter pilot the other day who had allowed cylons to get to earth (in her discussion with starbuck)... a lot more people were fooled, and are still being fooled (remember how the cylons wrecked havoc in the fleet, caprica 6 and the fake tv journalist...)...

same to say that Columbus was responsible for the genocide of the indians... or FDR of Pearl Harbour, because he didn't pay enough attention to intelligence reports warning of a jap attack (I'm aware some people are reproaching him exactly that)...

as the head scientitist, Baltar was a prime target, and as a weak bachelor was instrumentalised by the hottest girl possible (by your own admission)... and that's the whole extent of his fault...

I'd say his only genuine crime so far has been to give the nuke to a deranged caprica 6 (not only it killed thousands, but also allowed the Cylons to find New Caprica)... so it's pretty bad... but I stick to my bet...
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Old 18-12-2006, 15:06:16   #45
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He's guilty because he covered it up and potentially exposed the survivors to further damage. If you remember back to the mini-series. His first thought wasn't to expose the infiltration, it was to call his lawyer. Now that's completely in character of course, but is perhaps the defining aspect of just how irredeemable he is. He cannot do the right thing if his own skin is on the line.

the difference for Kat is that there wasn't any proof that she did anything wrong. There's proof Baltar was involved with the Cylons. Lots of proof.

They may try to redeem him, but in my eyes there's nothing he can do to be redeemed. In order for me to at least understand him, they'd have to make him a Cylon.
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Old 18-12-2006, 15:21:13   #46
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a radiation resistant cylon then... aka one of the deus ex machina plotting this whole 2 races death struugle/stellar treasure hunt towards earth

which brings me to one more way he could redeem himself with: finding earth


On him exposing the exfiltration: his skin was on the line all right! as you remember, he thinks (probably rightly) that he'd be lynched if he tells the truth, and tries to unmask the cylons nonetheless (finding an excuse to get rid of the beacon above the command table)

he's not the only one in the series to lie to cover up something... and the others don't even face certain death for revealing the truth...
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Old 18-12-2006, 15:46:45   #47
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He's the one that most deserves certain death.
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Old 18-12-2006, 16:26:00   #48
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Originally posted by Venom
He's guilty because he covered it up and potentially exposed the survivors to further damage. If you remember back to the mini-series. His first thought wasn't to expose the infiltration, it was to call his lawyer. Now that's completely in character of course, but is perhaps the defining aspect of just how irredeemable he is. He cannot do the right thing if his own skin is on the line.
Exactly. He's way too selfish to sacrifice himself for the benefit of others. He does have a sense of guilt though. But he's ready to win the fight against his conscience the cheap way.

Like when he asks number 3 if she saw his face among the cylons while downloading. Why?
"Because if I were a Cylon I'll stop to be a traitor to one set of people and be a hero for another."

So, to be a cylon looks like a big relief to him, right?
His character is well thought and coherent, that's why I like Gaius Baltar.
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Old 18-12-2006, 16:57:34   #49
maroule
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yes
besides, it would be a shit show if all we got were morally irreprochable characters... they all have fairly tainted histories, and what makes president roswell and adama great is the fact they rose from their mistakes...

in the words of I don't know how "what is admirable is not a man standing up, it is a man picking himself up from the ground" (which sounds better in French)... which is precisely what I think Baltar will do...

now of course the question remains: will he do enough to get back in Venom's good books? that will be a stiff challenge...
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Old 18-12-2006, 17:08:18   #50
Venom
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He'd have to wipe out the Cylons, find Earth, develop cold fusion, save baby Hera, build 10 new Battlestars, make gold out of granite, and die in the process of all that. Then, maybe, I'd think of him as a neutral force.

He's a fun character though, that's for sure.
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