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Old 27-01-2005, 23:48:48   #1
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my nuts hurt

damn anatomy for beginners on tv. my nuts started hurting in sympathy for some dead geezer.

they just pulled his whole pubic bone out/off with his sex organs intact. I thought they were going to give it to an audience member.
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Old 28-01-2005, 01:06:02   #2
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He wasn't dead, that was Venom, he needed money.
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Old 28-01-2005, 01:06:59   #3
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stop this thread
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Old 28-01-2005, 01:25:27   #4
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I started to watch it, whilst eating...gave up and had to change the channel after about 5 minutes, thank fuck I never got to see what he did to the female
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Old 28-01-2005, 02:37:14   #5
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Old 28-01-2005, 02:39:41   #6
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I do! It was great watching the people in the studio grimace though
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Old 28-01-2005, 02:40:42   #7
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Yeah, it meant I didn't need to look in the mirror to have an idea what my own face looked like...
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Old 28-01-2005, 02:42:03   #8
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I'm so glad I never have to see anything like that again
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Old 28-01-2005, 03:00:23   #9
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That just shouldn't be done. Even to a dead man.
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Old 28-01-2005, 04:51:16   #10
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Another anatomy story!

Most med schools keep well dissected bodies for years after they are dissected. For example, our demo body was dissected by the instructor 15 years previous when he arrived at the uni.

Besides the full bodies they need lots of preps and dissected regions for demos but don't want to store full bodies that have to be stored in certain ways, so they chop the bodies up.

For each body reagion there was a "sack" of that body part.

The sack of crotches was untertaining, but nowhere near as creepy as the sack of arms when poured out on the table.
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Old 28-01-2005, 06:31:50   #11
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Old 28-01-2005, 07:32:21   #12
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I never found the time to visit the body farm in Knoxville, Tenn.
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Old 28-01-2005, 10:00:32   #13
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Originally posted by HelloKitty
The sack of crotches was untertaining, but nowhere near as creepy as the sack of arms when poured out on the table.
when 18 I was stewarding (or wardrobing, can't recall, whatever) at a knee surgery congress, and before the practice session began a sluggish nurse walked in with a bunch of legs under her arm and started distributing them to the participants... I thought: "cool!"
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Old 28-01-2005, 10:02:18   #14
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anyway, anatomy for "beginners"... what do you intend to "begin", actually?
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Old 28-01-2005, 10:52:25   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by HelloKitty
Another anatomy story!

Most med schools keep well dissected bodies for years after they are dissected. For example, our demo body was dissected by the instructor 15 years previous when he arrived at the uni.

Besides the full bodies they need lots of preps and dissected regions for demos but don't want to store full bodies that have to be stored in certain ways, so they chop the bodies up.

For each body reagion there was a "sack" of that body part.

The sack of crotches was untertaining, but nowhere near as creepy as the sack of arms when poured out on the table.
yeah that is a bit gross, we have a few legs in storage in the institute.
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Old 28-01-2005, 10:59:06   #16
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So does Venom, what's unique about that?
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Old 28-01-2005, 10:59:32   #17
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I think we must have reached the absolute pits of entertainment when we have programmes featuring subjects like dissecting bodies, cleaning filthy houses, following bin men around. We are literally wading through the detritus of our own society. No matter how they dress it up, its pure voyeurism. Its like we've all become so disengaged from each other and the real world that we have to watch a kind of pornography of excess to be satisfied.
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Old 28-01-2005, 11:07:13   #18
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I was going to sneer at a culture that features A & P videos as entertainment, but then I remembered all those Faces of Death videos I watched in high scool...
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Old 28-01-2005, 11:09:39   #19
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I think that, generally, a culture that'd allow this on TV is superior to one that wouldn't.
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Old 28-01-2005, 11:11:05   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by sleeping_satsuma
I think we must have reached the absolute pits of entertainment when we have programmes featuring subjects like dissecting bodies, cleaning filthy houses, following bin men around. We are literally wading through the detritus of our own society. No matter how they dress it up, its pure voyeurism. Its like we've all become so disengaged from each other and the real world that we have to watch a kind of pornography of excess to be satisfied.
what a remarkable attitude, you sound like some religious nut

autopsies are medical science in action. they show to common folk like me that scientists and doctors know an incredible amount about the way that the human body works and help to spread confidence in the concepts of medical science

your remarks are akin to describing sex ed as porn
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Old 28-01-2005, 11:12:24   #21
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Oh how I wished sex ed was porn when I was at school...

Apparently at Darkstar's school it was!
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Old 28-01-2005, 11:15:32   #22
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Couldn't agree more, how old fashioned.

I didn't see the program, but am I correct ion thinking it was with Prof. Gunther von Hagens? He did the body worlds exhibition on brick lane, which was incredible.
Suffice to say there were a fair few religious nuts demonstrating against that, but if they had taken the time to walk around the exhibition they would have been nothing else but amazed.

He also did a public disection that I would rwally have loved to go to.
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Old 28-01-2005, 11:16:19   #23
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Yep, that's the dude.
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Old 28-01-2005, 11:19:01   #24
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Well, just about every period film of England with science in it has somebody dissecting something, so I think it's more of a pastime than a testament to some innate evolutionary leap.
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Old 29-01-2005, 17:09:45   #25
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I appreciate the educational value of what he is doing, but the manner in which he is doing it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Damien hurst as i recall upset a few people with the cow and calf art, he didn't put any spin on it trying to describe it as anything other than a form of entertainment, this man from the 6 programmes i have seen him involved in, takes bad taste entertainment to a whole new level, and it is entertainment there is no other word for it.

The programme's could have been done alot more educationally than they were had that been the intention. The use of nude models to highlight the area's removed and explored was pure titillation and nothing else, a dummy would have sufficed.

I'm sure this man has said many times he is about entertainment and not education which i suppose is what leaves this lingering bad taste. I do not want to be entertained by my anatomy i want to be educated about it.

If i wanted to be entertained by my anatomy i would spend more time in bed with AH and less watching the TV.
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Old 29-01-2005, 18:28:45   #26
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I learned alot from the program. Diane would have loved it (she was at her evening class) because she's really into anatomy. I'm pretty interested too. It's gross at first but then you get over it.

I also love watching operations on TV. I find them absolutely enthralling. You can learn so much. Brain and eye surgery particularly fascinate me.
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Old 29-01-2005, 18:37:04   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by DevilsH@lo
The use of nude models to highlight the area's removed and explored was pure titillation and nothing else, a dummy would have sufficed.

I do not want to be entertained by my anatomy i want to be educated about it.
That's just stupid. If you are exploring the workings of the human body then you should show the human body, they used a live model because they couldn't ask the dead one to stand up.

If you have a problem with seeing what humans look like outside and insode then don't watch.

I personally want to be entertained while I am educated and so do alot of people. If you are enjoying the learning process then you will retain the information and continue to enjoy the subject. That's why Adam Hart-Davis is so good. I would never have thought that I would be interested in long forgotten Victorian scientists but when it's presented to me in such an enjoyable way I don't even realise I am taking on board information.

I'm sure you want to be entertained while you are educated about cars or whatever it is you find interesting. Would you prefer to watch Top Gear or a boring monotone mechanic mumbling on about mundane car statistics for half an hour?
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Old 29-01-2005, 22:42:47   #28
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Most anatomy textbooks use live nude photos alongside the dissections as well. It is not meant to be erotic, it is meant to show the body as a whole. Once you peel the skin off and start to tear things apart they look very different.
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Old 29-01-2005, 23:04:08   #29
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It seems a teeny bit absurd that someone would want to see something other than a human body in a lecture in which the subject is "the human body".
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Old 29-01-2005, 23:43:42   #30
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Originally posted by King_Ghidra
what a remarkable attitude, you sound like some religious nut

autopsies are medical science in action. they show to common folk like me that scientists and doctors know an incredible amount about the way that the human body works and help to spread confidence in the concepts of medical science

your remarks are akin to describing sex ed as porn
KG, Funko, Nills

this has nothing to do with religion or taking that attitude , I object to what is essentially using a dead person as entertainment.

Why does the average person have a need to see this? are you going to perform surgery? No. In context ie among doctors I have no issue with showing or filming this kind of thing but if you truly believe that this has been screened as anything other than a shock value prog to pull in an audience you're either a) dumb b) naive c) in denial. How can you possibly have confidence in any doctor who takes his practices out of the surgery and into the TV studio? All it says is 'Hi, I'm here for money and i have no respect for human beings!' Its been done to create publicity.

This stands in the same category as the Derren Brown Russian Roulette bollocks, and showing 24 hour live footage of the gulf war complete with missiles going down chimneys- if you want to raise the subject of sex ed, this is akin to actually showing people shagging on prime time tv in order to 'demonstrate' what its all about, rather than keeping things firstly in an arena of learning like a classroom, and secondly doing it with some taste/discretion. This is just another kind of pornography. Its symptomatic of our society's recent trend of literally wanting to see inside other people's lives, bodies, houses, trash cans, to see them put through trials, and now dissected. and it just shows a total cultural void. No one actually writes programmes anymore, they just stick a camera in someones hand.

If you think its old fashioned to think that television might actually have some standards and show some creativity instead of showing whatever they want because its a ratings winner then fine- I don't.
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Old 29-01-2005, 23:56:14   #31
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Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
Couldn't agree more, how old fashioned.

I didn't see the program, but am I correct ion thinking it was with Prof. Gunther von Hagens? He did the body worlds exhibition on brick lane, which was incredible.
Suffice to say there were a fair few religious nuts demonstrating against that, but if they had taken the time to walk around the exhibition they would have been nothing else but amazed.

He also did a public disection that I would rwally have loved to go to.
that would be the dissection that he did deliberately knowing that he was breaking the law then? Gosh, how educational and not at all done for personal publicity.

Have you read about this guy? He's a shyster of the highest order:

The shows have been surrounded by controversy for a number of reasons. Von Hagens prepared some "artistic" exhibits, such as a man carrying his own skin (based on a 16th century drawing by Gaspar Becerra); a man on horseback holding his brain in one hand, the horse's brain in the other; or a man kneeling in prayer, holding his heart in his hands. These are seen by some as denigrating the deceased. Some religious groups object to any public exhibition of human corpses. Others accuse von Hagens of sensationalism. Supporters counter that all displayed people did sign over their bodies to von Hagens.

There have been allegations that von Hagens used the bodies of executed Chinese prisoners. These have been backed up by documents from the corpse-processing facility in Dalian, in northeastern China. Further controversy surrounds von Hagen's use of the professor title he obtained from the University of Dalian. In January 2004, the Düsseldorf Ministry of Science officially forbade him from using the title in future publications.

Von Hagens maintains strict copyright control over pictures of his exhibits. Visitors are not allowed to take pictures, and press photographers have to sign agreements permitting only one publication in a strictly defined context, followed by return of the copyright to von Hagens. Because of this, a German press organization has suggested that the press refrain from reporting about the exhibition altogether.

In 2003, officials of Munich tried to prohibit the exhibition there, arguing that it violate human dignity and laws regulating burials. Von Hagens appealed and managed to obtain a temporary injunction allowing the exhibition but requiring that the artistic exhibits mentioned above be covered.

The exhibition in Hamburg in 2003 took place in the rooms of an erotic art museum on the Reeperbahn. Initial objections of a local official to the artistic exhibits were overruled by officials of the Hamburg Senate.



doesnt seem quite so scientific once you know he's a fake professor with 'artistic' leanings and exhibiting in erotic art museums does it?
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Old 29-01-2005, 23:58:59   #32
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Bollocks.

Just because you are disgusted/turned on/confused by human biology and science, it doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

You might actually learn something if you watch. You always make yourself out to be an expert in medical science but when it gets down to the real thing - exploring the human body - you find it shocking.

If you aren't interested then don't watch it. Simple.
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Old 30-01-2005, 00:18:09   #33
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what a load of cock

I am disgusted by the attitude of the television channel, not the human body.

And I don't consider myself an expert in medical science just because I'm not willing to place all responsibility for my body into the hands of anyone who claims to have a science degree. I've had many experiences where doctors have proved to me or my friends/family that they get things wrong frequently, prescribe wrongly or badly, diagnose wrongly or badly, and treat people like cattle (not all doctors, but a fair few) so why should I trust them implicitly? I've learnt far more by actually listening to my own body and researching things myself, whether you like that or not.

I don't watch it, but if its raised in a forum, why shouldnt I comment on it? You seem to feel free to comment on what I say.

I notice you don't comment on the legitimate concern that he is using this as entertainment and instead turn it into a slanging match.
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Old 30-01-2005, 00:41:08   #34
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So I imagine you'd want to ban Discovery Health for showing autopsies, operations and accident and emergency documentaries all day every day?

Are you really shocked that Channel 4 has brought something controversial and educational to our screens?

It's not as if... hold on... Did you say you don't actually watch the programme but you are still disgusted by it? Where do you get your information from then? The Daily Mail? You know the Ayatollah Khomeini didn't read The Satanic Verses right?

Just what do you think the programme is? A crazy german nazi doctor with a chainsaw and a nervous tick slicing up bodies and dancing around to techno while an audience votes on which bit should be cut off next?

For your information then - the programme is a televised lecture on anatomy and it's written for people who don't have an extensive background in human biology. Very much like the christmas university science lectures on BBC2. The cadavers are skillfully dissected by Dr Gunther von Hagens while pathologist Professor John Lee gives a commentary on how the various parts of the body work and their names.

The episode in question was about the sex organs. You know, the furry front bottom and the dinkle. I learned quite a bit about my bits that I didn't know. Like why the vas deference takes such a weird route from the testes to the penis and that sperm taken direct from inside a testicle wouldn't fertalise an egg.

Quote:
what a load of cock
talking about cock, the penis looked pretty amazing without the skin on.
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Old 30-01-2005, 01:16:55   #35
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Protein i have no problem seeing how the human body works on the inside outside upside downside or whatever, i have issue with the way this man operates.

He is in it for the fame and the money, not the education of others he is out to shock and as such probably does a very good job in most cases.

I have watched these programmes and i have also been watching another programme which is being run at the minute about an american female pathologist. Only the american actually is a PHD.

Let's be honest it's no more shocking than an ozzy osbourne concert. Having said that i think ozzy osbourne was more interested in educating.

This guy is about pure entertainment he couldn't give a flying fuck wether you are educated by his art, he is in it too make money. And that fucking stetson just confirms what complete contempt he holds the people whom he is "skilfully" chopping up in.
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Old 30-01-2005, 01:32:08   #36
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I don't have to watch it to know its being done in a spirit of sensationalism. I'm not arguing that people shouldnt be allowed to know about their bodies, I'm not living in Victorian Britain, nor do I wish to be. Believe it or not I took biology at school and I read quite a lot about stuff to do with the body. My mother's job also entails gruesome stories of bodies and death so I;ve grown up with a healthy respect for the body (although I am ridiculously squeamish hence why i cant watch anything featuring blood/organs without passing out involuntarily- runs in the family unfortunately) however, I think this guy is the kind of guy that a few centuries ago would have been peddling a freakshow (at the very least you have to question the motives of someone who makes exhibits of men holding their own skin, or holding their brain in their hands and uses the bodies of ex-prisoners), and the TV channel is more than happy to flog his wares for ratings. That doesnt say education to me, it says voyeurism and money making. I read an interesting article about this subject and the writer opined that it was grotesque, not because the subject matter was inherently so, but because it was taken so vastly out of context by being televised and made into entertainment. Thats kind of my point.

I dont see hordes of people banging on channel 4's door demanding to know more about their bodies, I just see channel 4 looking to cause a stir. Otherwise this guy could have released a series of videos for the interested to buy. You only have to look at his track record to see what his primary motives are- self publicity and making money out of shock value.

What I question here, is what next? Whats the next shock value TV prog going to be? Live conception? Paedophile island? and when do we decide we've hit the bottom? The exploration of 'reality' in television has long since dropped its 'psychology' angle and become torture for fun, so where exactly do things like this lead us? I just find the whole thing distasteful (along with many other progs that are similarly pitched) and indicative of a kind of cultural emptiness where all we have left is raking through each other's shit and pornographising our own lives.

Whether you agree with me or not, and I'm not asking you to, a lot of people feel this programme is out of context, and that it is voyeurism for voyeurism's sake.
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Old 30-01-2005, 01:32:56   #37
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Right, so you disagree with the showing of this highly entertaining and educational mini series because the person doing the cutting wants to be successful and because he wears a hat?

I know you're sticking up for Angel Satsuma but really the only possible real argument against the enjoyment of the program is from some sort of religious/mora/psychicl standpoint she has against science and your "hat of contempt" and "hunger for success" arguments are a little, well, poor.

Would you perhaps ban Adam Hart-Davis for wearing lurid lycra clothing and cycle helmets and wanting to be successful?
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Old 30-01-2005, 01:50:13   #38
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AH, hmm. well, I just disagree that it is sensationalism and I think what I saw of the programme was fascinating. the body is a work of art and people should stop running away from seeing it and from seeing death. we all have blood and gore inside and we all die in the end.

the programme really does have the same feel as one of the christmas lectures (to me) and I found it as interesting a Operation or Trauma. http://health.discovery.com/schedule/a2z.jsp

maybe because you are squeamish you think pathoology is unpleasant and shocking and should be hidden from the public?

i reckon it's important to know about the body but I'm not going to do biology evening classes I am going to watch programmes like this. I honestly don't care if the doctor is also an artist or wears a hat or is german or wants to be successful.

the main thing was that it was on channel 4. you aren't going to find jim davidson's generation game or coronation street type programs on that channel, it's more cutting edge.
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Old 30-01-2005, 01:54:03   #39
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he isnt sticking up for me- he does have his own mind you know, we didnt even know the other one was posting at the same time.

You're just doing the usual patronising counterglow thing of 'you dont agree with the majority so you are WRONG and we will shout you down'

I have no religious, moral or 'psychicl'?? standpoint here- I've told you what MY beef is- sensationalism. What DH thinks is up to him.

i have nothing 'against science' either, I just dislike the way a lot of scientists (and the ones on here only convince me more) seem to think they know everything about everything and want us mere mortals to trust them completely and not question them, when clearly they get it wrong reasonably often and still know little about many things. I think its great that we know as much as we know, but questioning something is surely the whole point of being human- you know, actually making up your own mind about stuff? And I would have thought it was essential to scientists, but in my experience they are the most dogmatic group of people I've met.
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Old 30-01-2005, 01:55:13   #40
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Bollocks to chivalry, i am disagreeing with the fact that this can be in anyway considered educational, if it were then why not show it at a reasonable time and in schools??

Now if this were set at the appropriate level of say "a man's interpretation of art" i could quite understand it, but it would appear that message would be lost on the vast majority of viewers, this man "Displays" in galleries, not in museum's or foundations of science or any other medical institution.

As for Adam Hart-Davis, i've met the guy his wearing of cycle helmets and lycra are a farce, purely due to the fact that the man cycles possibly 100 yards per episode and is chauffered the rest of the time, he also has very little interest in the subject he has generally introduced. He did a programme on the fire beacons system which was the original early warning system and i was posted at one of the few remaining sites when he was filming.

I would much prefer a programme presented by Fred Dibnah or Robbie Coltrane to one presented by a man who apparently wears lycra just for the sake of it.
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Old 30-01-2005, 02:02:17   #41
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AH, hmm. well, I just disagree that it is sensationalism and I think what I saw of the programme was fascinating. the body is a work of art and people should stop running away from seeing it and from seeing death. we all have blood and gore inside and we all die in the end.

the programme really does have the same feel as one of the christmas lectures (to me) and I found it as interesting a Operation or Trauma. http://health.discovery.com/schedule/a2z.jsp

maybe because you are squeamish you think pathoology is unpleasant and shocking and should be hidden from the public?

i reckon it's important to know about the body but I'm not going to do biology evening classes I am going to watch programmes like this. I honestly don't care if the doctor is also an artist or wears a hat or is german or wants to be successful.

the main thing was that it was on channel 4. you aren't going to find jim davidson's generation game or coronation street type programs on that channel, it's more cutting edge.
I can't help being a fainter i'm afraid- I have an uncle who faints when he has his hair cut and an aunt who once passed out when a coffee grinder was turned on, its just always been there since I was young and it annoys the fuck out of me. It doesnt affect my opinion on this since I realise other people are not so squeamish, doctors thankfully being among them. As for running away from death, I was with my dad when he was dying, so I've done that thanks.

I think this is just a difference of opinion- I personally dont think that this has been done for entertainment, I think its part of a trend as I've said. I'm glad you are getting something out of it and watching it for educational purposes, but I suspect a lot of people will be watching it to gross themselves out or as dares with their beered up mates. We all like looking at car crashes, because we can. This guy says he is educating yet makes 'art' out of the body. That is entertainment, which is quite different. i appreciate that its a grey area but for me this crosses the line.

Anyway, I've said my bit. I don't really have anything to add.
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Old 30-01-2005, 02:07:57   #42
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I'm not going with the majority at all. I've never been one to do that. As for patronising, that's a big word, aren't you clever etc etc... No I'm not doing that. I do find your views a little odd sometimes and then the rest of the time you seem to make more sense than everyone else here.

I think that maybe you should watch the program and then come back to the thread. I reckon after two minutes of feeling a bit queesy you'd be enthralled.

I reckon the "wacko jacko" trial will be the low point in entertainment you are on about and to be honest it sounded like you were looking forward to it*

*although you could have been making a clever statement about the horrible sorded nature of tabloid/celebrity culture and I was a bit too thick to notice.
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Old 30-01-2005, 02:20:13   #43
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I'm not going with the majority at all. I've never been one to do that. As for patronising, that's a big word, aren't you clever etc etc... No I'm not doing that. I do find your views a little odd sometimes and then the rest of the time you seem to make more sense than everyone else here.

I think that maybe you should watch the program and then come back to the thread. I reckon after two minutes of feeling a bit queesy you'd be enthralled.

I reckon the "wacko jacko" trial will be the low point in entertainment you are on about and to be honest it sounded like you were looking forward to it*

*although you could have been making a clever statement about the horrible sorded nature of tabloid/celebrity culture and I was a bit too thick to notice.
I did actually go back to the WJ thread and admit I was being facetious (is that how its spelt?)

yes it will be a new low- as are all these 'extreme makeover' shows.

yeah i know my views don't always go with the mainstream science based view, but as i keep saying, I dont think science yet has all the answers and that it has a disproportionate power in our society. I'm by no means a luddite, I just like to trust my intuition and research and I take 'the science bit' into account always, just alongside everything else, and to be honest its stood me in good stead. Its informed me about a lot of things my GP knew sod all about. i find a lot of the info science people on here come up with really interesting, I just hate being told that it MUST be true and perfect and that I must bow in awe before it, because most of it is in fact far from concrete. I like to take a fairly holistic approach to life rather than putting all my eggs in one basket.

And speaking of odd views protein I'm not the only one on here am I?
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Old 30-01-2005, 02:22:11   #44
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PS I couldnt watch an autopsy, I'd be out cold within two minutes, possibly less. I have fainted from paper cuts before. Low blood pressure or something.
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Old 30-01-2005, 12:28:15   #45
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that would be the dissection that he did deliberately knowing that he was breaking the law then? Gosh, how educational and not at all done for personal publicity.

Have you read about this guy? He's a shyster of the highest order:

The shows have been surrounded by controversy for a number of reasons. Von Hagens prepared some "artistic" exhibits, such as a man carrying his own skin (based on a 16th century drawing by Gaspar Becerra); a man on horseback holding his brain in one hand, the horse's brain in the other; or a man kneeling in prayer, holding his heart in his hands. These are seen by some as denigrating the deceased. Some religious groups object to any public exhibition of human corpses. Others accuse von Hagens of sensationalism. Supporters counter that all displayed people did sign over their bodies to von Hagens.

There have been allegations that von Hagens used the bodies of executed Chinese prisoners. These have been backed up by documents from the corpse-processing facility in Dalian, in northeastern China. Further controversy surrounds von Hagen's use of the professor title he obtained from the University of Dalian. In January 2004, the Düsseldorf Ministry of Science officially forbade him from using the title in future publications.

Von Hagens maintains strict copyright control over pictures of his exhibits. Visitors are not allowed to take pictures, and press photographers have to sign agreements permitting only one publication in a strictly defined context, followed by return of the copyright to von Hagens. Because of this, a German press organization has suggested that the press refrain from reporting about the exhibition altogether.

In 2003, officials of Munich tried to prohibit the exhibition there, arguing that it violate human dignity and laws regulating burials. Von Hagens appealed and managed to obtain a temporary injunction allowing the exhibition but requiring that the artistic exhibits mentioned above be covered.

The exhibition in Hamburg in 2003 took place in the rooms of an erotic art museum on the Reeperbahn. Initial objections of a local official to the artistic exhibits were overruled by officials of the Hamburg Senate.



doesnt seem quite so scientific once you know he's a fake professor with 'artistic' leanings and exhibiting in erotic art museums does it?

I'm not even gonna counter argue this as we did this one to death at the time of the Body World's exhibition. All the "Sinister" allegations of Von Hagens were stupidly misinterpretations from the very people who were taking offense to his work.
He freely admits he is also an artist, the human body is a beautiful thing, the way he displyed the bodies was nothing short of incredible.
Did you go to the exhibition? If you went and still thought it was sensationalism then fair enough, otherwise I don't think you can comment.

Regarding the public dissection, another way you could look at it is that they used to be done all the time, then someone came up with a law against it. He just wanted to demonstrate the public interest in it and why this law is wrong. (No one forced the hundreds of medical students, doctors and generally interested members of the public into coming along)
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Old 01-02-2005, 07:46:09   #46
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I just hate being told that it MUST be true and perfect and that I must bow in awe before it
Sleeper, no scientist is going to tell you something is true and perfect in science. Unless it is math.

As for the entertainment versus education debate... this comes up quite often. If you want to educate the masses, you end up having to make it "entertaining" or they will stop paying attention. Making it entertaining usually results in diluting its "educational" value.

If a few people that see these programs get an interest in anatomy and pursue some career in science, biology, or medicine, then it is a success as an educational tool, isn't it? If some viewers actually learn from them, again, they are educational, aren't they? Even if they are just "freakshow" entertainment level, if you pack in a few facts into the show, people still learn. For instance, protien sounds like he enjoyed the show (entertainment) and learned things (education). That's probably the target of the show, isn't it? The fact that a few people would find that offensive, then that is just a bonus, isn't it? Controversy makes for good publicity and all that, doesn't it? Got you three talking about it, didn't it? Drew a bit more attention.

Quote:
You're just doing the usual patronising counterglow thing of 'you dont agree with the majority so you are WRONG and we will shout you down'
That is a function of communities. I believe its called "peer pressure". Be like us! Be like us! Act like we want you to! Act like we want you to! Luckily, this is the internet, and all people can really do here is put you on ignore.



And I'm bubbling this up cause it is more interesting then all Vincent's recent "show us what we are missing in the Music forum by posting all the band/music threads in Main" spat.
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Old 01-02-2005, 14:58:16   #47
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Old 01-02-2005, 14:59:05   #48
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Old 01-02-2005, 15:03:24   #49
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I should read before I post more often.

It would prevent spam like this.
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