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Old 18-07-2004, 03:39:12   #201
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The law is the law, and its there for a reason.
Perhaps you could quote me that reason, and explain how it is applicable in our case, and how it would extend to both our sexuality and our emotions?

Furthermore I would ask you to explain that why something is the law, we are thus compelled to follow it on an ethical/moral basis and not simply one of sociological retribution.

Case in point: I smoke cannabis. I smoke in my room, the only person I harm is myself, and I deem the negative effects as being outweighed by the benefits, for example, enhanced creativity and control of migranes (it's healthier than 1600 mg of paracetamol per day). I am breaking the law in doing so. I am breaking the law, ergo I should desist... explain to me how, in this case and generally, that reasoning should necessarily hold, because I just don't see it.

Stuff like murder, rape, assault etc is understandable, because you can levee numerous utilitarian and relativistic arguments agaisnt it, but not in this case, real or hypothetical as both above.
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:39:24   #202
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Originally posted by TV4Fun
Yes, the law is completely perferct and there is absolutely no situation whatsoever where it's ever wrong.
If you think its wrong, lobby Parliament or write to your MP.
Chasing underage girls wont win you any friends.

And what if she were a few years younger? You move the age of consent ad you start allowing child sex basically, so regardless of how stricken by hormones you all are and how unfair you think it is, the law is there to protect you and your underage girlfriends.
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:42:20   #203
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She is not a few years younger and I will not argue my own case against a purely hypothetical situation. And you mean to tell me all I have to do ask for a few laws to be changed and I can live in my completely perfect world?
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:46:31   #204
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Originally posted by Thales
Perhaps you could quote me that reason, and explain how it is applicable in our case, and how it would extend to both our sexuality and our emotions?

Furthermore I would ask you to explain that why something is the law, we are thus compelled to follow it on an ethical/moral basis and not simply one of sociological retribution.

Case in point: I smoke cannabis. I smoke in my room, the only person I harm is myself, and I deem the negative effects as being outweighed by the benefits, for example, enhanced creativity and control of migranes (it's healthier than 1600 mg of paracetamol per day). I am breaking the law in doing so. I am breaking the law, ergo I should desist... explain to me how, in this case and generally, that reasoning should necessarily hold, because I just don't see it.

Stuff like murder, rape, assault etc is understandable, because you can levee numerous utilitarian and relativistic arguments agaisnt it, but not in this case, real or hypothetical as both above.
The cash you hand over for illegal drugs goes to fund crime and forced prostitution, hope you're happy with that. So yes, you are in fact harming many more people than yourself.

YOur 'emotions', based though they surely are on wanting to shag a young teenage girl, have no bearing on whether you should follow the law. Its part of living in society, you arent exempt because you're at college, you are required to obey the law to ensure the greater good of society, in many different areas of life. If you want to protest against the law there are various channels for doing that. In the meantime, you're still an internet groomer.
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:47:34   #205
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And I think being 19 is a lot more 'adult' than being 15. YOur balls had barely dropped at that age, yet at 19 you have full legal rights. You've done a lot of growing up in that time (allegedly)
Mine had dropped by 12, what's your point? Are you saying that the changes in my life in the preceeding four years have rendered me capable of having a relationship in the interim?

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Chasing underage girls wont win you any friends.
If I sought to change the law, I'd take your advice. If I want to follow my heart, I won't let narrow-minded bigotry and overly generalised dogma that is rendered academic by ones subjective characteristics stop me. Note that such things are reciprocal so you can't just take my word for it

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And what if she were a few years younger? You move the age of consent ad you start allowing child sex basically, so regardless of how stricken by hormones you all are and how unfair you think it is, the law is there to protect you and your underage girlfriends.
Not good enough I'm afraid, thats opaque reasoning. You're best bet in this debate would be to answer my questions in the previous posts.
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:48:27   #206
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Nut dropping discussion. Now we've got a thread.
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:48:59   #207
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He is attracted to a girl a few years younger than him. If they were both a year or 2 older you wouldn't say a word. What is the difference? And I do think drugs should be legalized just because it is illegal drugs that fund crime.
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:50:01   #208
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Nut dropping discussion. Now we've got a thread.
you dropped your nuts? *snicker*
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:50:22   #209
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Originally posted by TV4Fun
She is not a few years younger and I will not argue my own case against a purely hypothetical situation. And you mean to tell me all I have to do ask for a few laws to be changed and I can live in my completely perfect world?
I'm saying your case is unsound because it relies purely on your situation- 'I think its unfair I cant shag a 15 year old, so the law should be different'. YOu havent thought through what changing that law actually means for others.

You can campaign for laws to be changed, and they can be changed, as with the Poll Tax, but you would need support from other people, and I suspect you'd find yourself in unsavoury company on this one. And the world will never be perfect, no matter how many laws you change.
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:51:47   #210
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So you agree the law isn't perfect and will never be perfect, no matter how it's changed?
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:53:39   #211
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Guys, fact is that the law has to make a strict line in the sand w/r to age of consent. You can argue all you want about how unjust, how unrealistic, or how unfair it is. But regardless, the law is the law. Just cos you think a law is unfair, doesn't make it allright to break it. If you honestly believe that it is unfair, try and have it changed. Otherwise, respect it.

It's like arguing that driving at 5kmh over the speed limit it okayy. Or that driving .02 over the legal drinking limit is okay.

Sorry, no it isn't. You cannot argue against the law unless you're willing to fight to have it changed. Otherwise, you're just whining aboiut things that you consider are unfair.
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:55:43   #212
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Many places do actually allow a little wiggle room with the age of consent if the older person is close to the age of the younger person.
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:56:55   #213
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The cash you hand over for illegal drugs goes to fund crime and forced prostitution, hope you're happy with that. So yes, you are in fact harming many more people than yourself.
I grow it myself, from hemp seeds I bought from a pet shop!

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YOur 'emotions', based though they surely are on wanting to shag a young teenage girl
If you want to be pedantic, my sexual fetish is older girls, and it is a testament to the personality of my love that I can relate to her in ways so much more wonderful than the superficial, and in that former regard, I regard her as an equal in any case.

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Its part of living in society, you arent exempt because you're at college, you are required to obey the law to ensure the greater good of society, in many different areas of life.
Ah! A classical utilitarian. You would have to explain then how one specific case (and thus judged on those merits) affects the greater good. Or perhaps you are a Kantian in which case you would have to explain why one following ones heart is necessarily inferior to obeying a law designed to stop 13 year old girls in the 19th century being sold into prostitution by their desperately poor families in industrial London and Manchester?

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In the meantime, you're still an internet groomer.
Ad hominem, you can do better than that. Please explain the specifics of this example that lead you to that conclusion, and I will refute you on definition.
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:57:02   #214
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Yes, and in some countries, it is legal to set your wife alight if you even suspect her of adultery. Do you agree with that law? No? Then don't try and use that argument please...
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:58:38   #215
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Why not? You are.
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Old 18-07-2004, 03:59:34   #216
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Originally posted by Thales
Mine had dropped by 12, what's your point? Are you saying that the changes in my life in the preceeding four years have rendered me capable of having a relationship in the interim?

They've given you more life experience, and ability to make decisions about things such as sex, certainly than a 15 year old has.


If I sought to change the law, I'd take your advice. If I want to follow my heart, I won't let narrow-minded bigotry and overly generalised dogma that is rendered academic by ones subjective characteristics stop me. Note that such things are reciprocal so you can't just take my word for it

YOu arent following your heart, you're following your cock. And Its not bigotry, its a well respected law thats put there to stop adults fucking children. And rightly so. Relativism doesn not ensure safety to minors.

Not good enough I'm afraid, thats opaque reasoning. You're best bet in this debate would be to answer my questions in the previous posts.

'Opaque reasoning'??? You're such a teenager. I'm just waiting for you to say 'define your terms!' Adding as many long words as you can to each sentence doesn't make you more correct. The fact is the law protects minors and it has to do that in a consistent and comprehensive way. It cannot make exceptions because Joe Bloggs fancies a shag with Sarah-Jane down the road. If you don't understand that, you're too dumb to be having sex.

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Old 18-07-2004, 04:01:16   #217
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Yes, and in some countries, it is legal to set your wife alight if you even suspect her of adultery. Do you agree with that law? No? Then don't try and use that argument please...
we arent in that country. YOu dont get to break laws just because some laws in other places are unfair. The age of consent is a reasonable and reasonably enforced law.

Otherwise, I'd love to hear an alternative.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:01:43   #218
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So you can think of no situation where a man can fall in love with a girl 3 1/2 years younger than him?
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:01:52   #219
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Originally posted by Thales
Ah! A classical utilitarian. You would have to explain then how one specific case (and thus judged on those merits) affects the greater good.
Okay, so I can drive at 100kmh above the speed limit. Cos hey, it's only a one off case and won't effect the greater good, and I have a good car (BMW) designed to drive at such speeds, and I am a very good driver.

Sorry, you'll have to do better than that...

As soon as one person is allowed to break the law, then why not everyone else? Explain how allowing one person to break the law is for the greater good, and not opening the flood gates for anyone and everyone to do so?

Bah, damn flu is making me argumentative. You're still wrong tho.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:02:48   #220
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Originally posted by Angelhorns
i didnt say you were, I said pregnancy is used by men to hold women back in business. Which it is. If it wasnt, boardrooms would be 50% run by women. They're not.
Two senior male members of staff within my own company have (carelessly) remarked to me that they find it very inconvenient when women get pregnant and they take it into account when promoting etc...and guess what!! No women in the boardroom, except the obligatory HR head. There are also few women in senior management and almost no males in positions of lesser responsiblity such as admin.
This happens in companies all over Britain. I've worked for a few, my friends work for some. Thats how it is.
I think it is pregnancy does hold women back. They end up taking maternity leave and often don't come back. That has an impact on the organization.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:02:53   #221
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Originally posted by TV4Fun
So you can think of no situation where a man can fall in love with a girl 3 1/2 years younger than him?
Not when she's underage.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:03:34   #222
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Originally posted by Angelhorns
we arent in that country. YOu dont get to break laws just because some laws in other places are unfair. The age of consent is a reasonable and reasonably enforced law.

Otherwise, I'd love to hear an alternative.
I'm on your side, silly.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:04:48   #223
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Originally posted by TV4Fun
So you can think of no situation where a man can fall in love with a girl 3 1/2 years younger than him?
yes, but he should have the good grace to respect not only the law, but her arrival at the age of consent before making decisions about sexual relationships.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:05:02   #224
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So not before her birthday he's just a pervert looking for a shag, but as soon as midnight comes he's a man with a perfectly legitimate love for a woman?
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:05:27   #225
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I'm on your side, silly.
yes I misread it, just realised what you meant
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:05:27   #226
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Originally posted by TV4Fun
So you can think of no situation where a man can fall in love with a girl 3 1/2 years younger than him?
Or, if it were true love, you'd be more than happy to respect the age of consent laws until she came of age.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:05:43   #227
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:06:00   #228
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I'm saying your case is unsound because it relies purely on your situation- 'I think its unfair I cant shag a 15 year old, so the law should be different'. YOu havent thought through what changing that law actually means for others.
Strawman. The argument doesn't rest upon "unfair". The argument rests upon a fundamental question of existential individual responsibility and that is decided upon an individual basis, not by statute. The law in this case is, in that context, irrelevant. Sociologically speaking I am a utilitarian which would allow for it, both classical, Millian and post-modern interpretations (and their myriad incarnations) which would applaud the greater generation of happiness and welfare as a result.

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You can campaign for laws to be changed, and they can be changed, as with the Poll Tax, but you would need support from other people, and I suspect you'd find yourself in unsavoury company on this one. And the world will never be perfect, no matter how many laws you change.
This isn't a question of the law per se, this is a question of why I should obey it, and to respond with the stick is to beg the question of my judgement of its threat to me, but that's sidetracking anyway. Nonetheless, I call democracy fallacy. Popular opinion is no objective source of truth in this matter.

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Guys, fact is that the law has to make a strict line in the sand w/r to age of consent.
How so?

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Sorry, no it isn't. You cannot argue against the law unless you're willing to fight to have it changed. Otherwise, you're just whining aboiut things that you consider are unfair.
Habra una respuesta, la dejo ser. One can argue against the law on ethical, philosophical or personal grounds and not seek to have it changed. You can argue against the law itself only if you believe that were the law to be removed its consequences are universalisable, because such a law is an inherently Kantian concept. I prefer utilitarian laws myself, but then I am a consistency junkie . The car analogy is flawed because *your* actions affect others directly and unintentionally. In this case, ones actions only directly affect the couple, other effects are secondary, consequential and thus environmental.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:06:03   #229
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Originally posted by Angelhorns
yes, but he should have the good grace to respect not only the law, but her arrival at the age of consent before making decisions about sexual relationships.
So someone under the age of consent will never be able to make a decision about a sexual relationship?
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:07:16   #230
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So not before her birthday he's just a pervert looking for a shag, but as soon as midnight comes he's a man with a perfectly legitimate love for a woman?
It's all about the law. You can't break the law just because you think you're a special case. You don't like the law? Change it. Otherwise, at least respect it.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:08:38   #231
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So not before her birthday he's just a pervert looking for a shag, but as soon as midnight comes he's a man with a perfectly legitimate love for a woman?
as the law sees it, yes.
I think the point is that he is a potential pervert and thats why she is allowed to be 16 and supposedly of sound and mature mind before she makes decisions of that nature.

As I've said before, this situation has nothing to do with your individual feelings, its to do with protecting the greatest amount of people from harm.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:09:54   #232
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So someone under the age of consent will never be able to make a decision about a sexual relationship?
They shouldn't , and shouldnt have to
Its obvious from the amount of teenage pregnancies that they do.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:11:21   #233
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So this law, which is designed for the most common cases and not the rare ones, should have no exceptions to it whatsoever?
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:12:40   #234
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I don't think you should be having sex with someone who is still dependant on their parents. If she is out and earning her own keep, that is fine. But if Mom and Dad are still feeding her, she's still a baby.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:13:00   #235
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They shouldn't , and shouldnt have to
Its obvious from the amount of teenage pregnancies that they do.
So even though they're hitting puberty at 12 and 13 and younger, you really think they're gonna just ignore it all together until they get to 16 or 18, or whatever the morally correct is in their jurisdiction?
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:14:00   #236
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No. I think it is fine if they fuck at 12. I just don't think their parents should have to take care of them any more.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:14:55   #237
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This country was built by people leaving home at age 12.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:22:27   #238
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Originally posted by Thales
Strawman. The argument doesn't rest upon "unfair". The argument rests upon a fundamental question of existential individual responsibility and that is decided upon an individual basis, not by statute. The law in this case is, in that context, irrelevant. Sociologically speaking I am a utilitarian which would allow for it, both classical, Millian and post-modern interpretations (and their myriad incarnations) which would applaud the greater generation of happiness and welfare as a result.



This isn't a question of the law per se, this is a question of why I should obey it, and to respond with the stick is to beg the question of my judgement of its threat to me, but that's sidetracking anyway. Nonetheless, I call democracy fallacy. Popular opinion is no objective source of truth in this matter.



How so?



Habra una respuesta, la dejo ser. One can argue against the law on ethical, philosophical or personal grounds and not seek to have it changed. You can argue against the law itself only if you believe that were the law to be removed its consequences are universalisable, because such a law is an inherently Kantian concept. I prefer utilitarian laws myself, but then I am a consistency junkie . The car analogy is flawed because *your* actions affect others directly and unintentionally. In this case, ones actions only directly affect the couple, other effects are secondary, consequential and thus environmental.
Using a load of pretentious drivel, doesnt justify your argument. You obey the law, campaign against it, or fuck off to another country where they'll let you shag anything you like. Thats how democracy works, and you're living in one.

The law is not irrelevant to you because you consider yourself to be a special case, or cleverer than the law. But please do go for a walk on a motorway to prove me wrong.

As for why should you obey the law? Maybe you should think about what happens when people stop obeying the law.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:23:59   #239
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So this law, which is designed for the most common cases and not the rare ones, should have no exceptions to it whatsoever?
for practical reasons, no it shouldnt- what message would that give to people who want to harm minors?
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:25:43   #240
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Using a load of pretentious drivel, doesnt justify your argument. You obey the law, campaign against it, or fuck off to another country where they'll let you shag anything you like. Thats how democracy works, and you're living in one.
How about talking about what he's saying and not how he's saying it?
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:29:35   #241
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So even though they're hitting puberty at 12 and 13 and younger, you really think they're gonna just ignore it all together until they get to 16 or 18, or whatever the morally correct is in their jurisdiction?
No one ignores it, but sexual intercourse carries responsibilities a 12 or 13 year old cannot and should not have to shoulder, and therefore they should refrain. Its not that difficult, I waited till I was nearly 20 and it didnt kill me.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:30:10   #242
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Originally posted by Angelhorns
for practical reasons, no it shouldnt- what message would that give to people who want to harm minors?
We're not talking about people who want to harm minors, we're talking about people who want to have a legitimate relationship with someone who may be under the statuory age of consent in their area. And the issue we're dancing around is that you believe the law should be strict inflexible, and I believe it should allow for exceptions in special cases. As you yourself said, the law is to do with protecting the greatest amount of people from harm. That means that there will always be people for whom the law is not doing a service and is in fact doing them poorly. Are these people supposed to just live with this necessary imperfection, or should they not try to do the best they can with their situation?
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:30:56   #243
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Yes, and in some countries, it is legal to set your wife alight if you even suspect her of adultery. Do you agree with that law? No? Then don't try and use that argument please...
Informal fallacy. Since that law does not apply to me, I cannot use the same argument with it. I only make a prescriptive argument for myself, and a descriptive argument for others. This law would affect me, whereas that would not, so I can only be descriptive with the latter.

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Okay, so I can drive at 100kmh above the speed limit. Cos hey, it's only a one off case and won't effect the greater good, and I have a good car (BMW) designed to drive at such speeds, and I am a very good driver.
In my example, my actions only directly affect the consenting individual with me, and none others unintentionally, whereas that one does. In that case, utilitarianism would forbid your speeding regardless of driving ability, whereas not in this case.

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As soon as one person is allowed to break the law, then why not everyone else? Explain how allowing one person to break the law is for the greater good, and not opening the flood gates for anyone and everyone to do so?
Kantian logic, which is to say that if a million other people were in my identical position, would I advise them to take the same action? Of course! If a million other people were in variant positions vaguely similar, then not necessarily. A 30 year old with a 4 year old? Hell no. A 17 year old with a 14 year old? Judge it by merit. A 19 year old with a 15.7 year old. Why not? A 19 year old with a 16 year old? Why not?

If you want to talk about the effects of premarital relations, then use those arguments, not the preoccupation with people coming of age “before they’re supposed to”

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You're still wrong tho
On what grounds do we determine “right”? What about individual subjectivity? Are you claiming an objective truth in this fundamentally existential/psychological/sociological debate?

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Or, if it were true love, you'd be more than happy to respect the age of consent laws until she came of age.
Not once did I suggest that a relationship would result in de facto sex! Tell me why you jumped to that conclusion?

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ve for a woman?

It's all about the law. You can't break the law just because you think you're a special case. You don't like the law? Change it. Otherwise, at least respect it.
Strawman.

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as the law sees it, yes.
I think you’ve just refuted yourself there.

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I think the point is that he is a potential pervert and thats why she is allowed to be 16 and supposedly of sound and mature mind before she makes decisions of that nature.
He could be a potential pervert with 18 year olds, and yet you are attempting to argue by intent, but with a consequentialist conclusion? .

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As I've said before, this situation has nothing to do with your individual feelings, its to do with protecting the greatest amount of people from harm.
Then tell me how I am going to harm the greatest number of people? The only law I’ve ever broken is smoking cannabis, note I’ve never slept with anyone under the age of 16 before, I don’t carry and STI and I’ve always used a condom. I’ve never hit except in self-defence and I pick up my litter. How will my actions hurt the greater number? Do you think that my actions are an automatic endorsement of breach of AoC, or an automatic endorsement of flexibility, following ones heart, and the irrelevancy of an essentially academic 14 weeks?

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They shouldn't , and shouldnt have to
You’re describing the need of the AoC there, not the actual one present. Consider the alternatives to the current one, that line of reasoning is a red herring.

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I don't think you should be having sex with someone who is still dependant on their parents. If she is out and earning her own keep, that is fine. But if Mom and Dad are still feeding her, she's still a baby.
What do you base that on?

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Using a load of pretentious drivel, doesnt justify your argument. You obey the law, campaign against it, or fuck off to another country where they'll let you shag anything you like. Thats how democracy works, and you're living in one.
I’ve been debating with “pretentious drivel” since my very balls dropped, with people who are trained to debate with such “pretentious drivel” even before I was trained accordingly to do the same, so if you want to question my choice of terminology, discourse or reasoning, please elaborate on your complaint. If, on the other hand, you don’t understand, feel free to ask, or get out of the proverbial kitchen.
I think I’ve adequately explained why I don’t have to necessarily obey the law where it does not apply in any ethical sense, and furthermore am able to provide reasons questioning the existence of the law in the first place (defense and offense), and why ones moral conduct is not determined by the state but by ones own individual pre-disposition. Your choice of language would seem to indicate that you are being more affected by emotion than any rational disdain for my argument, so at this point I must ask you what it is about this particular situation that has you so irate, or apologise accordingly if my impression is mistaken about you.
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The law is not irrelevant to you because you consider yourself to be a special case, or cleverer than the law. But please do go for a walk on a motorway to prove me wrong.
I think I’ll tell you what my position is, and how I think, and my place relative to the law, and you shall either accept that and debate accordingly unless you can provide necessary reasons why I am in error regarding my cognisant motivations (which only those who know my personally will be able to, should they exist which I hasten to add, they do not), or desist from the debate. On the other hand, I’m as up for a flame war as anyone…. Just need to clean the barrels first

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As for why should you obey the law? Maybe you should think about what happens when people stop obeying the law.
You assume the law to be a single entity and that my views are a vindication of the view that the law full stop is irrelevant. Nowhere did I suggest that, indeed with my comments about murder, rape and assault I said the exact opposite, so I suggest you read what I write. Nonetheless, buenos nochas!!
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:31:33   #244
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Originally posted by Angelhorns
No one ignores it, but sexual intercourse carries responsibilities a 12 or 13 year old cannot and should not have to shoulder, and therefore they should refrain. Its not that difficult, I waited till I was nearly 20 and it didnt kill me.
Well good for you. Maybe not everyone has the same kind of personality as you do. Maybe some people who actually like doing it would be perfectly ok with doing it a little younger.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:32:38   #245
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Originally posted by TV4Fun
How about talking about what he's saying and not how he's saying it?
if he wants to blather on about sociology, thats up to him, but I did all that when I was 18, and its pretty boring frankly.

The issue remains the same. We need an age of consent, we need people to respect it, and waffling about what a special case you are, makes not a jot of difference.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:33:47   #246
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Strawman again! Wow a hat trick!
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:36:36   #247
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if he wants to blather on about sociology, thats up to him, but I did all that when I was 18, and its pretty boring frankly.
Well I'm sorry but if you want to talk about effects on the greater good, you're going to talk about sociology. If you're going to talk about effects on the individual, you're going to talk about psychology and existentialism. If you're going to talk about individual liberty, you're going to talk about ethics and politics. If you want to talk about a conflict between society and the individual, you're going to talk about philosophy and history. If you dislike that, you know where you can go
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:38:33   #248
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Originally posted by TV4Fun
Well good for you. Maybe not everyone has the same kind of personality as you do. Maybe some people who actually like doing it would be perfectly ok with doing it a little younger.
Christ- you really dont get it do you? Its not about whether you like sex, its about whether you are old enough to decide to engage in a relationship that exposes you to all kinds of potential hazards. And its about saying to adults- you do not have the right to tamper with a group in society that has not had time to reach maturity. Children are too vulnerable to persuasion and coercion to allow anything else.

Maybe you should read up on some of the harmful effects sexual abuse has for people.
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:41:02   #249
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You are repeating yourself. We have established that the assumption that one is not sexually mature until a statute in law says so is simply unsatisfactory and that the semantics of "children" and "adult" are woefully insufficient here. Sexual abuse? Where did that come in?
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Old 18-07-2004, 04:41:50   #250
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Originally posted by Thales
Well I'm sorry but if you want to talk about effects on the greater good, you're going to talk about sociology. If you're going to talk about effects on the individual, you're going to talk about psychology and existentialism. If you're going to talk about individual liberty, you're going to talk about ethics and politics. If you want to talk about a conflict between society and the individual, you're going to talk about philosophy and history. If you dislike that, you know where you can go
you can debate what you want in teen theory world, the rest of us have to live in the real world. I was waiting for you to say 'define your terms' and you just have. If you cant figure out what the greater good means in terms of a democratic society or the issue of sexual exploitation, without a 12 hour conversation about it, its not worth continuing.
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