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Old 01-07-2004, 13:01:25   #101
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Old 01-07-2004, 23:26:23   #102
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Originally posted by Angelhorns
she doesnt like me- we had an argument after I suggested her 'bad luck year' was all in her mind and she could do something about it instead of just taking it.
You mispelled "After I mistook someone just trying to vent for someone asking for my amateur, and piss-poor, psychoanalysis." Hope this helps.

I may have a less bitchy response after I read through the rest of this thread.

-- Kory (Not promisin' anything.)
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Old 01-07-2004, 23:28:56   #103
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Old 01-07-2004, 23:33:59   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kory
You mispelled "After I mistook someone just trying to vent for someone asking for my amateur, and piss-poor, psychoanalysis." Hope this helps.

I may have a less bitchy response after I read through the rest of this thread.

-- Kory (Not promisin' anything.)
I didnt try and psycho analyse you. I tried to offer some helpful advice as you seemed like you couldnt cope with what was going on. I think its fair to say you over reacted and jumped down my throat, but lets not go over it again.
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Old 01-07-2004, 23:35:04   #105
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Why people complain that there aren't enough women online I can never understand.
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Old 01-07-2004, 23:36:09   #106
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yeah, men never argue on this site
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Old 01-07-2004, 23:36:15   #107
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Anyhow.

I do not make a living as a writer, in any form, shape, or fashion, unless you count the part of my job that involves tech writing and documentation.

What makes me a serious writer is that I actually have a stack of rejection slips. What makes me a serious writer who will probably be published in the forseeable future is the fact that half of them came back with comments. That's short stories, which is not my main focus; my first novel goes out to its first rejection, er, I mean, consideration, sometime in the very near future, whereas my second one goes to beta readers sometime this month. The third one's sitting around waiting for me to write the sequels, and the fourth one is merely in outline form at the moment.

(Actually, I am published, just not as a fiction writer... but that's neither here nor there.)

What makes someone a serious writer is two things: you write. You submit your writing. Nothing more, nothing less. Writer's groups, books on writing, and similar things are tools. Some people want and need them. Some people don't.

Sit down. Write. Repeat. Let your writing marinate a while in its own juices when you complete something. Go back. Re-read. Revise. Then submit it somewhere. And be prepared for it to come back with a note that says "Sorry, we don't want it." If you're lucky enough that they give you some details as to why they don't want it, remember them. Revise the story in accordance with them if you agree. Watch for it in future writing. Remember it next time you submit to that publisher.

Repeat this regularly until published.

Everything else is immaterial.

-- Kory (And read a lot. You can't get a feel for good writing if you don't encounter it elsewhere.)
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Old 01-07-2004, 23:36:53   #108
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Old 01-07-2004, 23:39:28   #109
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what type of novel/story do you write Kory?
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Old 01-07-2004, 23:40:05   #110
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"You're taking responsibility for other people's problems."

"You spend far too much time on the computer and not enough time relaxing or having fun."

"It sounds like you have borderline depression or are heading that way."

Sound familiar? That's not 'advice'. That's amateur pop psych babble. You probably should learn the difference.

If you want to be a writer, understanding language and how your writing comes across are probably things you should concentrate on.

-- Kory (No. Really.)
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Old 01-07-2004, 23:43:45   #111
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you were taking responsibility for others problems, you said yourself you werent having enough fun and were working flat out and that kind of stress does lead in some cases to mild depression. Its hardly psychobabble.
In any case I was trying to be nice & helpful and you were just bitchy back.
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Old 02-07-2004, 00:02:34   #112
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*eyeroll*

See, there you go again.

Okay, let's point out the ways in which you are wrong.

1. I wasn't "taking responsibility" for anyone's problems. I was upset and unhappy that my friends were hurting. There is a big difference. Knowing you can't do anything to help someone you care about is not "taking responsibility", it's just simple frustration.

2. Advising someone they "must be depressed" is psychobabble. Why? Because depression is the disease du jour. Twenty years ago, you would have been suggesting I take a valium. Now you suggest I get treated for depression. It's also psychobabble because situational depression and actual major depression are entirely different things, something you'd know if you knew more than pop psych level psychology.

3. "I was just trying to be helpful". No. Telling someone they're clearly fucked up and how you know better than they do isn't 'being helpful'. It's being self-righteous.

4. I was not bitchy. I deliberately deleted the long response so I could explain to you that I wasn't looking for advice. "Please learn the difference" was at worst snippy. Telling you that I valued my doctor's advice above yours was just a statement of fact.

5. Which reminds me... I'd been to doctor and discussed all that, something you decided to assume I was too stupid to have done. So even if you were somewhere near right about my problems, assuming that I was just flat out too stupid to do anything about it without your wonderful (wrongheaded) advice actually makes you the bitchy one.

I've met people like you before. You're so committed to being right that you can't possibly admit that you may have screwed up. You think you're helping people when really you're just trying to show off how smart you are... except, of course, that trips you up when you're talking to someone with 6 years of psych field experience and what you're dispensing advice on is psych stuff. You are right that I don't like you. It took precisely one post from you for me to take a bad shine to you; the rest of the ones here pretty much shored up my initial opinion. I think of the two of us, you're the one who needs counseling for depression; I sense some deep-rooted self-esteem issues.

-- Kory (Hey, "just trying to be nice and helpful".)
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Old 02-07-2004, 00:06:55   #113
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BTW, that was me being bitchy. See the difference?

-- Kory (Time to go home now.)
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Old 02-07-2004, 00:12:17   #114
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Go Kory!

I was worried for a few moments that someone giving you static might be a spur to not bother visiting us here. But I see you aren't about to let a beta female keep her illusion she's an alpha.
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Old 02-07-2004, 00:17:57   #115
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Would you like some welly boots there Darkstar, in case you want to wade in a bit deeper?
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Old 02-07-2004, 00:22:15   #116
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For what? Kory seems to be having fun. And its nice to see Kory in action again without being her target.
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Old 02-07-2004, 01:05:52   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kory
*eyeroll*

See, there you go again.

Okay, let's point out the ways in which you are wrong.

does being wrong = being a bitch? You seem to think it does.

1. I wasn't "taking responsibility" for anyone's problems. I was upset and unhappy that my friends were hurting. There is a big difference. Knowing you can't do anything to help someone you care about is not "taking responsibility", it's just simple frustration.

and you cant say that in a non-bitchy way? I think most people would infer from what you were saying that you were overloading yourself with guilt/stress from others probs and indeed I think a few other people did say that

2. Advising someone they "must be depressed" is psychobabble. Why? Because depression is the disease du jour. Twenty years ago, you would have been suggesting I take a valium. Now you suggest I get treated for depression. It's also psychobabble because situational depression and actual major depression are entirely different things, something you'd know if you knew more than pop psych level psychology.

I didnt say you MUST be depressed. I said you sounded like you MIGHT be borderline. You're putting words in my mouth. DOn't patronise me and tell me what I do and dont know please. Having suffered from the thing, I know a lot more than pop psychology about it, and having seen other people go through it you tend to pick up on it in other people and the early triggers- thats obviously difficult from one post but I was worried (foolish me) you were heading down a slippery slope. It doesnt take Freud to know that stress when overwhelming can lead to mild depression if it isnt picked up early. And did I attempt to make a formal diagnosis of the type of depression? no? I'm well aware there are different types (something you'd know if you weren't so desperate to badmouth me), not that I had even raised the subject- you're trying to deflect attention from the fact you're overreacting. Again.

3. "I was just trying to be helpful". No. Telling someone they're clearly fucked up and how you know better than they do isn't 'being helpful'. It's being self-righteous.

Again, putting words in my mouth and assuming my motives. In fact I was just trying to say to you 'take it easy and watch out you dont tip over the edge with stress' which seemed like a supportive thing to do since you seemed to be asking people for their reaction, otherwise why post a huge list of why everything was so bad? I never assumed I knew better than you, but thats something you keep doing to me ironically, filling in the blanks with your own malign interpretation of what i 'must' think and feel.

4. I was not bitchy. I deliberately deleted the long response so I could explain to you that I wasn't looking for advice. "Please learn the difference" was at worst snippy. Telling you that I valued my doctor's advice above yours was just a statement of fact.

Its the way in which things are said Kory, as you well know. I think you need to discern between people unwantedly sticking their nose in your business and people expressing concern over the amount of stress you appear to be under when you make a massive post about how much stress you are under. If you wanted to keep all these feelings private why post them?? You were offering them up for comment it seemed. You also seemed to be confused about what to do about it, so a few people were making 'helpful' comments.

5. Which reminds me... I'd been to doctor and discussed all that, something you decided to assume I was too stupid to have done. So even if you were somewhere near right about my problems, assuming that I was just flat out too stupid to do anything about it without your wonderful (wrongheaded) advice actually makes you the bitchy one.

Fair enough Kory, so you'd been to the doctor, so clearly you too were worried about the implications of how you were feeling (thus completely invalidating your above tract on how 'wrong' I was for thinking you might be depressed or heading that way), so why couldnt you just say 'yeah I was worried about it but my doctor says i'm ok'? How the hell you work out I'm bitchy for suggesting you might think about seeing a doctor I'm not sure. A lot of people dont even link the two in my experience, and having seen friends 'suffer in silence' I would say the same to anyone. At no point did I assume I knew more than you or your doctor, or that you were too stupid (??) to do anything about it. Sounds like you are very insecure and assume people are thinking the worst about you.

I've met people like you before. You're so committed to being right that you can't possibly admit that you may have screwed up. You think you're helping people when really you're just trying to show off how smart you are... except, of course, that trips you up when you're talking to someone with 6 years of psych field experience and what you're dispensing advice on is psych stuff. You are right that I don't like you. It took precisely one post from you for me to take a bad shine to you; the rest of the ones here pretty much shored up my initial opinion. I think of the two of us, you're the one who needs counseling for depression; I sense some deep-rooted self-esteem issues.

Have you? You know me do you? Its funny how you tell me *I * assume too much and *I* think you're stupid and *I* think I know better than you, and then you come out with that gem. YOu're the only person doing the assuming and dispensing advice here Kory. At no point was I trying to be 'smart', I was merely trying to offer some thoughts on what you seemed to be having trouble coping with. And you've admitted above that I was on the right track so how I was 'tripped up' I'm not sure. Most people (without huge chips on their shoulder) would see what I said as a well intentioned gesture, even if they didnt need or want it. It seems to me that you are the one here who has decided she knows me from one post, although one would assume that someone so experienced in psych would actually recognise that people are far more complex than the sum of one post. Now you are trying to put me in my place by telling me (unsuccessfully) who I am and what I think and what a bad person I am. And if telling me I have self esteem issues (which I dont) isnt psychobabble I'm not sure what is. I gather you added that for a touch of sarcasm.

I don't know why you have this problem with me from this one post, or why you think you in any way know my character, but its really sad that you can't recognise or accept when someone is trying to be nice and extend a helping hand even if they dont know you intimately. Its sad that you cant see the difference between someone wanting to be right, or wanting to do the right thing. Even if you dont want help or advice or attention, there are ways of saying so without being so very nasty, sneering, and snide.

I'm not really interested in pursuing this further since we obviously disagree on this point, indeed all points, but rest assured I won't make the same mistake twice. I can appreciate I might not have expressed myself well or that you might not have wanted my comments but I don't think that gives you cause for your character assassination. You seem determined to find fault with me and place yourself above me on the moral ladder, so go ahead, knock yourself out, I have many faults and I'm sure you'll have fun.

-- Kory (Hey, "just trying to be nice and helpful".)
what you meant to say was: 'just trying to put you down because I want to be superior to you'


See comments above
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Old 02-07-2004, 14:29:54   #118
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I love it when girls fight. It makes me feel more at ease with my primative male intellect.

BTW I too plan on writting a book. The first one will be on the history and future of Psychological Warfare and Propaganda and the second one I'm thinking about is on the history and future of NATO. I realize that neither one will be best sellers but maybe a certain type of person will be interested.
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Old 02-07-2004, 15:03:57   #119
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Old 02-07-2004, 15:21:05   #120
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I'm with Chris... The quality of posts are being sacrificed for quantity... not that I would know however
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Old 02-07-2004, 16:13:38   #121
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Why people complain that there aren't enough women online I can never understand.
If it's any comfort, I made the same mistake but I'm still significantly lacking in ovaries.
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Old 02-07-2004, 21:52:29   #122
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No, Angel, I'm not trying to put you down so I feel superior to you. I simply am superior to you.

-- Kory (Self-confidence is my middle name. My parents were weird.)
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Old 02-07-2004, 22:05:28   #123
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a word for you Kory:

arrogance

\Ar"ro*gance\, n. [F., fr. L. arrogantia, fr. arrogans. See Arrogant.] The act or habit of arrogating, or making undue claims in an overbearing manner; that species of pride which consists in exorbitant claims of rank, dignity, estimation, or power, or which exalts the worth or importance of the person to an undue degree; proud contempt of others; lordliness; haughtiness; self-assumption; presumption.

I hate not you for her proud arrogance. --Shak.

Syn: Haughtiness; hauteur; assumption; lordliness; presumption; pride; disdain; insolence; conceit; conceitedness. See Haughtiness.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.



well you did want me to learn about language
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Old 02-07-2004, 22:14:52   #124
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...and the crystaline, eight-armed elephant/octapus god is superior to us all so he wins.
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Old 02-07-2004, 22:19:43   #125
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I got a word for both of you:

Catfight, n [no idea what is suppose to go in here. See ignorance] The act of two or more females engaging in sexually explicit or generally male or lezbian inticing fight-like behavior in which clothes are shed in a greatly exagerated manner revealing bare flesh being pressed semi-violently between the scantly clad women. In most intances of catfights friction mediums such as water, mud, or jello(TM) are imployed to enliven the fantasy that usually results in the two (or more) women forgiving each by making passionate love to each other.


---

See, everything I write turns into porn
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Old 02-07-2004, 22:21:19   #126
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Originally posted by Kory
You mispelled "After I mistook someone just trying to vent for someone asking for my amateur, and piss-poor, psychoanalysis." Hope this helps.

I may have a less bitchy response after I read through the rest of this thread.

-- Kory (Not promisin' anything.)
Just as an outsider, they read as basically the same thing.
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Old 02-07-2004, 22:23:53   #127
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Originally posted by Kory
Anyhow.

I do not make a living as a writer, in any form, shape, or fashion, unless you count the part of my job that involves tech writing and documentation.

What makes me a serious writer is that I actually have a stack of rejection slips. What makes me a serious writer who will probably be published in the forseeable future is the fact that half of them came back with comments. That's short stories, which is not my main focus; my first novel goes out to its first rejection, er, I mean, consideration, sometime in the very near future, whereas my second one goes to beta readers sometime this month. The third one's sitting around waiting for me to write the sequels, and the fourth one is merely in outline form at the moment.

(Actually, I am published, just not as a fiction writer... but that's neither here nor there.)

What makes someone a serious writer is two things: you write. You submit your writing. Nothing more, nothing less. Writer's groups, books on writing, and similar things are tools. Some people want and need them. Some people don't.

Sit down. Write. Repeat. Let your writing marinate a while in its own juices when you complete something. Go back. Re-read. Revise. Then submit it somewhere. And be prepared for it to come back with a note that says "Sorry, we don't want it." If you're lucky enough that they give you some details as to why they don't want it, remember them. Revise the story in accordance with them if you agree. Watch for it in future writing. Remember it next time you submit to that publisher.

Repeat this regularly until published.

Everything else is immaterial.

-- Kory (And read a lot. You can't get a feel for good writing if you don't encounter it elsewhere.)
I hang out on some forums with wannabe SF and Fantasy writers (and some pros). They consider me a bit of a troll and I was hated for a while, but now am tolerated. I can point you all to that stuff (and good stuff from SFWA and the like on how to write and to submit and all that) if you don't already have it all.
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Old 02-07-2004, 22:30:31   #128
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Originally posted by Kory
BTW, that was me being bitchy. See the difference?

-- Kory (Time to go home now.)
and long-winded. And belaboring subtleties. Should I go on?
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Old 02-07-2004, 22:31:59   #129
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Would you like some welly boots there Darkstar, in case you want to wade in a bit deeper?
I'm swimming in the shit. Dove right in.
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Old 02-07-2004, 22:33:58   #130
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Originally posted by Angelhorns
a word for you Kory:

arrogance

\Ar"ro*gance\, n. [F., fr. L. arrogantia, fr. arrogans. See Arrogant.] The act or habit of arrogating, or making undue claims in an overbearing manner; that species of pride which consists in exorbitant claims of rank, dignity, estimation, or power, or which exalts the worth or importance of the person to an undue degree; proud contempt of others; lordliness; haughtiness; self-assumption; presumption.

I hate not you for her proud arrogance. --Shak.

Syn: Haughtiness; hauteur; assumption; lordliness; presumption; pride; disdain; insolence; conceit; conceitedness. See Haughtiness.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.



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Girls, girls, girls. Come on patch it up. You could abuse me. I'll say something like "it's possible boys are better at math" and you can go after me. Ok sistahs?
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Old 02-07-2004, 22:35:24   #131
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Boys ARE better at math, and they make better leaders too.

Women, however, are better at sewing and sweeping floors.

So at least there is an even trade off.
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Old 02-07-2004, 22:36:30   #132
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They can give birth and milk as well.
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Old 02-07-2004, 22:44:35   #133
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Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

Though the man gets screwed in that trade off by having to put up with her and her horomones... When wifey gets pregnant I'm buying a tranqualizer.
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Old 02-07-2004, 22:57:00   #134
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wish the girls weren't asleep. i like bothering them
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Old 02-07-2004, 23:04:26   #135
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oh well, they'll read this eventually.

I have always contested that men make better writters than women.
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Old 02-07-2004, 23:05:05   #136
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Oh come on...we only argue about US politics, religion and cars here...let's not lower this to personal stuff.


*spreading love mode on*

I think something we all fail to consider sometimes (and it seems to dovetail with this writing thing) is that our text voice is often easily misconstrued in regard to intent and concern. With the lack of body language, inflection, etc., it is easy to think someone is giving us grief or, especially in my case, being a pompous ass.
I remember I left a neighbor a note one day because his stupid Guinea pigs were loose and our housecats were having a field day with them. When I saw him later, something he interpreted as the tone or whatever of my note had really pissed me off and he was ready to throw down over the whole thing. It really perplexed me because I thought I had only conveyed a neighborly concern.
Having people give a shit about our lives, whether their response appears to be unsolicited advice, pop psychology or what have you is better than having no one care at all.
I reveal a lot of personal things on this site and the varying responses (often positive, sometimes insensitive, rarely mean spirited) are the price of poker in my opinion. You have to expect a response and it is not always going to be one that you enjoy or hoped for.
Let's take it with a grain of salt, shall we?
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Old 02-07-2004, 23:17:02   #137
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Doesn't really matter much at this point; Angel has joined the one other person on my ignore list.

Although thanks for quoting her message, HTCO. Because it gives me a new tagline.

-- Kory (Arrogant elitist bitch.)
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Old 03-07-2004, 11:06:54   #138
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awww poor little Kory doesnt like hearing responses to her malignant world view

BGH, while what you say makes sense, Kory would rather put her fingers in her ears so she can be right than admit she over reacted and assumed a load of stuff that wasn't true.

Game over
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Old 03-07-2004, 11:47:09   #139
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If anyone wants to put this in context, it kicked off here-

http://www.counterglow.com/forum/sho...highlight=year

Funny how these things erupt. It's getting to the point where I'm not even sure I can call BGH a "stinking shit fuck" without it being misconstrued as a negative comment in some way.
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Old 03-07-2004, 11:49:23   #140
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FUCK YOU ALL!!! YOU FLATULENT AND STINKING LITTLE ARSEHOLES HAVE DRAGGED ME DOWN TO THE DEPTHS OF HELL AND PISSED ALL OVER WHAT REMAINS OF MY BRUTALISED SOUL!! DIE IN AGONY WHILE I LAUGH!!!!


See? Bet someone starts accusing me of negativity again.
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Old 03-07-2004, 12:02:30   #141
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You never hit me as hard as I expect, Trappist.

Now, I gotta fucking turn sigs on (hate that) just to see Kory's sig.
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Old 03-07-2004, 12:05:24   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angelhorns
awww poor little Kory doesnt like hearing responses to her malignant world view

BGH, while what you say makes sense, Kory would rather put her fingers in her ears so she can be right than admit she over reacted and assumed a load of stuff that wasn't true.

Game over
Who fucking cares. You all are arguing about who over-reacted. That's like secondary or tertiary or quaternary on the list of things to get into it about. I still stand by my statement that there is no difference in how Kory portrayed your comments and how you portrayed them. Feel my dialectic making opposites the same.
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Old 03-07-2004, 12:05:53   #143
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Sometimes I feel a little dirty from my shit-stirring.
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Old 03-07-2004, 12:06:20   #144
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Where's devilmunchkin? Need to get her going.
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Old 03-07-2004, 12:31:40   #145
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blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah
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Old 03-07-2004, 12:32:41   #146
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bleh
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Old 03-07-2004, 13:19:19   #147
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And another CG thread shows the caring and understanding we all have come to know around here.
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Old 03-07-2004, 13:24:56   #148
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What BGH said.
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Old 03-07-2004, 13:28:41   #149
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hey I tried to be helpful, and look what I got for it. Sod it.
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Old 03-07-2004, 13:30:03   #150
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Sod is expensive.
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