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Old 02-04-2004, 06:25:15   #151
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Originally posted by Angelhorns
2) you need the egg not the sperm for reproduction
Actually you don't. What science cannot do without are natural wombs currently. It has no artifical ones at this time.

There is already developed techniques that allow any cell to be de-nucleated, and then act as the recieving egg in normal sexual reproduction. There is also already developed techniques to strip other cells down to be injected into the "empty egg". Right now, better success rates and economics (cheaper) favor using harvested eggs. But it's the incubator that is needed. And that means surrogate mothers (of whateve species is being messed with) for us "higher" life forms.
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Old 02-04-2004, 06:40:39   #152
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Trust me, I'm a scientist.
will that work with girls at bars?

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Old 02-04-2004, 07:15:49   #153
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Try it and see.

Its not the line, its how you deliver it.

I'll bet "What's your sign?" can work if you set it up right.
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Old 02-04-2004, 07:20:26   #154
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Sure does.
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Old 02-04-2004, 07:32:59   #155
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If woman rule the World there would be at least as many wars as now ...
War is menstruation envy
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Old 02-04-2004, 07:34:07   #156
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This thread was already too long to read when I first came across it, but the thing is that it is only a matter of time before science can handle the lot. And it only takes one of those global disaster things to set the human race back so science don't have the facilities any more.

It would be a foolish species that left reproduction to non-natural means.

And if sticking to natural methods, the idea that one gender will die out is an evolutionary dead end since one needs to mix the genes to prodcue variety and resilience. Very important for higher (larger/more complex) life forms.

As for women doing better academically. there are a variety of reasons. Probably the 2 most important being the way things are taught in schools now-a-days, and the cultural drift towards macho, "don't need to conform and learn" type attitudes among young males.

These things go in cycles. It'll change with time.
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Old 02-04-2004, 08:21:21   #157
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Certainly science and technology are now the relevant factors. Evolution is dead.
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Old 02-04-2004, 08:30:13   #158
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Evolution isn't "dead". It's merely the tolerances need to survive long enough to reproduce has widened. That allows for less "efficency" in our bio-mechanic suitability.
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Old 02-04-2004, 08:33:14   #159
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Darkstar:

Organic Evolution is a process that occurs over tens of thousands of years.

Technological Evolution is a process that occurs over decades.

Which do you think is more likely to be relevant to our future?
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Old 02-04-2004, 08:37:28   #160
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btw, how many mammals have eliminated the male chromosome?

How likely is something like that to happen to a high order organism that had not happened before to simpler ones?

This thread is pretty stupid.
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Old 02-04-2004, 08:56:35   #161
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Did I get the wrong thread?
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:01:23   #162
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Shining1, my friend...

I am not convinced that organic evolution occurs over thousands of years, at this time. It is more reasonable in my current world view, but that doesn't mean it's real science. And real science, AFAIU, is unsettled on this matter.

Technology's evolution started before humans. Several of our primate ancestors had technology. Technology is just tool use.

We ourselves have had extreme boughts of technology advancement, and then collaspe. Technology has, over human's history, advanced as slow as human society. Currently, our technology advances are coming at a quick pace, but it is becoming much easier for some small, highly aggressive group of humans to send all of us back to "stone age" levels. if that happens, then evolution will probably advance as fast as technology... until such point as society and food technologies both allow technology to grow more quickly.
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:17:46   #163
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What's your point, exactly?
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:25:37   #164
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That technology evolution, while very quickly now, may not continue to be so. That historically speaking, it advanced in pace with human society in the human species.

And that technology may cause a global environment "reset". That would be a dead end, wouldn't it? Not due to losing the Y chromosome... which would show that evolution is the correct path for survival. At least until the sun bloats up and burns the Earth to a cinder... and then eats it.
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:27:37   #165
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Either way then, as far as we're concerned as a species, techology is where it's at.
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:30:38   #166
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Right now. Hell yeah!

If the damn corporations weren't so greedy, we might have clinical immortality and endless, clean power available in 25 years. But of course, human greed will prevent both of those...
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:34:54   #167
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Of course, if there was no payoff for doing stuff, we probably wouldn't have them either...
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:38:12   #168
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Well, if nanites really come close to what they keep promising... IP is going to become the most important thing in the world. People will probably end up with "Trust" chips in their head, that keeps them from using anything they haven't got an explicit license for.
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:42:10   #169
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Yeah, people will vote for that...
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:47:38   #170
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VOTE? It will be a condition to use the tech! Bam! You will sign over those rights... they aren't going to allow their IP in an non-secure setting, S1.

Besides, they might not even need to add a second one. Your government is going to want to chip you. They promote it as the next logical extension of National ID, and for National Security so it never gets voted on by the poeple... done. What are you going to do? The politicians will sign off on it... they are being pro-active against terrorism. And there is going to be the occasional terrorist atrocity in major population centers. The governments will make sure of it if they have to. Heck, after recent events, I expect local and national political backing to start using "terrorism" events... all to make the other side look like it's "failing" to protect the people. It is a definate will happen... just a matter of when now.
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:50:33   #171
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:55:26   #172
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Exactly!

And if you want to make yourself the latest Nike Supers, you'll just click that "accept" terms button. Bam! OW! Cool, now I can make me a new pair of Nikes!

Of course, hackers will have a grey and black markets for exchanging matters. And there will be Open Source sneakers/trainers. But they won't be as desirable as something that is protected/designed.

Besides, half your head will be part of the government's net... after all, what is the value of money when you can just turn your own crap into gold? Or food for your cat/dog/personal bio-robotic intimate assistant? Your taxes to the government will be being a node on its net. And they aren't going to trust people to not look into all that government data sliding through your own brain! So again, "trusted initiative" security platform/chip.
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Old 02-04-2004, 10:35:19   #173
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President Blaire is stirring it up about ID cards again. The bastard. He can stick them where the sun doesn't shine.
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Old 02-04-2004, 11:04:15   #174
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Wasn't all this supposed to happen by 1984 anyway?
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Old 02-04-2004, 11:10:07   #175
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Old 02-04-2004, 12:24:15   #176
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[noisy]the title of this thread should be 'men, your futures are sealed' [/noisy]
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after that, it's the same old fucking thing all over again.
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Old 02-04-2004, 15:56:35   #177
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Not necessarily, as "men" is a collective noun and therefore "future" is a single posession of a collective group.
I think.
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Old 02-04-2004, 15:59:00   #178
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yeah you may be right actually, something just sounds wrong about it to me
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i check my hair at the elevator mirror and the highlight of my day when I say hi to a girl who's opposite of the elevator door at my floor. the one i went out with.
after that, it's the same old fucking thing all over again.
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Old 02-04-2004, 16:05:37   #179
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If only we weren't straight men...what a torrid love we'd have!
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Old 02-04-2004, 17:37:29   #180
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I think you already all fancy each other judging by the amount of mutual back slapping you've done in this thread.

I find it really amusing, considering how 'logical' you lot seem to think yourselves, that none of you could actually bear to say hey maybe there's some evidence, maybe there isnt, maybe there were some interesting points, maybe there weren't. You know, actually reason it out or talk about reasons why it may or may not be true. I didnt make the programme, and I didnt say I believed it all 100%, I simply found it interesting and could see that some of it may happen. (Its also true that a 1 hour programme filmed as a documentary set in the future is never going to appear entirely credible or be really in depth, and hence the series it came from is called 'If...' Its a series about postulation)

Instead you've all gone mental apart from Funko and MDA and started calling me a sexist bitch, saying I uncritically believe scientists when they back up feminist theories, I have childhood issues, I am prissy (you fucking wish), I am so wrapped up in feminism I'm desperate to believe anything, I'm talking crap about women's academic standards here, blah blah blah. Not to mention all the laughing at women's academic/scientific achievements over the last century. You've just made yourselves look utterly infantile.

and they say women are hysterical
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Old 02-04-2004, 17:41:30   #181
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Actually culture would stop without men. Imagine a world with female directors, composers and writers ...
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Old 02-04-2004, 17:42:09   #182
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Maybe starting your topic with "Do you feel a little sad at being evolutionary outsiders, useless except as our genetic baggage handlers? Do you like how they slipped the word 'homunculus' in there?" has something to do with the reaction...
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Old 02-04-2004, 17:44:16   #183
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheSilentOne
I watched the program, I thought it got off to a good start but after about halfway through I started losing interest because frankly it was just a (poorly made) drama loosely based on what is essentially just sociological theory... which in this point in time has very little factual base. Where it get's it right is the fact that women are outperforming men in school/college and to a smaller extent university, and are also fast becoming dominant in call centre and customer service environments, which is also the fastest growing sector in most developed societies. In my 6 or 7 years of working most of it has been in those sectors and this is not a dig at women, but the women bosses I had in that period simply did not know how to deal with their male employees, they were either over friendly/chatty or bitchy towards their female underlings and just plain indifferent to the male ones. So much for the emotional intelligence?

But I digress, the show only showed men to be oafish/aggressive/paranoid/inadequate and useless, whereas the main female character was a complete insensitive smug "bitch" (fault me on using that word if you want, but i bet that was in her script description). She already had 3 daughters but she went to a futuristic family planning clinic at the age of 50+ asking for a new baby, then when asked what sex she wanted she said "i think i want a girl" to which the doc answered "of course". Then explanation about how you don't even need sperm anymore, can just graft another cell into the egg and voila, an embryo. And was the (scientifically very shaky) scaremongering about the y chromosome really necessary in a program supposedly outlining the possibilities of what may happen in the year 2020?

The show tried to make out it was unbiased with the little segues showing men's movements, who are feeling threatened etc, but it was clearly a show designed to thrill women that they may be rid of men... pfft.
Well, I can see how you can interpret the programme like that, but I thought it porrayed men quite sympathetically. I thought it was absolutely right in saying that if men start to feel more marginalised we will see more of these fathers rights protests and similar. I know from my friends that men are treated like crap when it comes to custody and paternity rights and they're starting to notice and get angry. Rightly so.

I think the point of the high powered women also showed that while women may potentially become more dominant in the workplace, they will still have to sacrifice at a personal level.

I dont think it was designed to thrill women at all, I think it showed good and bad sides to both sexes, and it gave as much thought to the subject as you can in a 1 hour show. I think the whole series is really thought provoking, whether you agree with what they present or not.
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Old 02-04-2004, 17:49:21   #184
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
Maybe starting your topic with "Do you feel a little sad at being evolutionary outsiders, useless except as our genetic baggage handlers? Do you like how they slipped the word 'homunculus' in there?" has something to do with the reaction...
Well I would have thought most of you would have had the nouse to see a lightheartedly fun-poking comment as just that. Jesus, if I hated men I wouldnt be living with one, I'd be sailing away to the isle of Lesbos. The bit about using the word homunculus would have been my first clue that I wasn't being entirely serious and setting forth my actual views. I was just being provocative based on the content of the articles, which it seems, none of you read.

Guys, basically you always accuse me of having no humour when it comes to feminism, and it is a subject I get passionate/angry about, but when the boot's on the other foot you react the same way.
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Old 02-04-2004, 17:51:35   #185
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angelhorns
The bit about using the word homunculus would have been my first clue that I wasn't being entirely serious and setting forth my actual views.
No own goal attempt: What makes you think you got serious replies?
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Old 02-04-2004, 17:52:47   #186
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Hey, you're ruining it!
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Old 02-04-2004, 17:54:49   #187
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sorry. but I'm a member (Ersatz mit Glied) of our equal opportunity comittee.
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Old 02-04-2004, 17:55:46   #188
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
No own goal attempt: What makes you think you got serious replies?
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Old 02-04-2004, 17:57:59   #189
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Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
sorry. but I'm a member (Ersatz mit Glied) of our equal opportunity comittee.
Isn't that a pillar?
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Old 02-04-2004, 17:58:19   #190
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent
Actually culture would stop without men. Imagine a world with female directors, composers and writers ...
so there have been no excellent female musicians writers or artists in any medium?

Jane Austen
George Eliot
Iris Murdoch
Virginia Woolf
Vanessa Du Prix
Charlotte Church
Sofia Coppola
Tracey Emin
Stella/Linda Mc Cartney

to name a handful

did you know it wasn't considered decent for women to write or participate in the arts until the early 20th Century? You can't look at the effects of a sexist society and use the effects to justify the means.
More women are joining the arts, in fact its one area that these days they are doing pretty well in.

I think its slightly incongruous that you've all been arguing that you're enlightened non sexist men, and telling me I'm over reacting and you keep coming out with statements like this.

I particularly liked the one about how its women teachers fault boys are failing to perform at school. Its our fault when we do badly and its our fault when you do badly. Convenient that isnt it?

As the Aussies would say- you really do have tickets on yourselves dont you?
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Old 02-04-2004, 17:59:43   #191
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angelhorns
so there have been no excellent female musicians writers or artists in any medium?





Not to sound like a chat kiddie, OMFG.

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Old 02-04-2004, 18:00:18   #192
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Anyway, everybody you named sucks ass.
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Old 02-04-2004, 18:01:19   #193
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big time
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Old 02-04-2004, 18:01:31   #194
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
No own goal attempt: What makes you think you got serious replies?
oh I see...it was all an elaborate joke
calling me an insecure sexist bitch with childhood issues was the centrepiece
hilarious
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Old 02-04-2004, 18:05:30   #195
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What's wrong with being sexy?
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Old 02-04-2004, 18:32:30   #196
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angelhorns
oh I see...it was all an elaborate joke
calling me an insecure sexist bitch with childhood issues was the centrepiece
hilarious
Well personally I prefer calling people rightwing extremist nutjobs.
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Old 02-04-2004, 19:06:05   #197
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
Well personally I prefer calling people rightwing extremist nutjobs.
That's completely true.
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Old 02-04-2004, 19:07:47   #198
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I know.
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Old 02-04-2004, 19:08:25   #199
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do me a nutjob!
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Old 02-04-2004, 19:08:46   #200
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Nutella!
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