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Old 21-02-2002, 23:41:47   #1
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Attention K Hunters

In the most recent K hunt (33K), Darkstar raised a question about the reliability of the front screen for identifying the owner of the kill. Has anyone seen this situation before?

I would appreciate your comments/views on whether this is an isolated event or whether we should disregard the front screen and manually count back for verification.

DS's comments are here

Whatever the outcome the existing leaderboard will stand.
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Old 21-02-2002, 23:44:18   #2
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I could go into the technicality of how the database is updated and what commands are run first. But I can assure you Darkstar is talking out of his arse.
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Old 21-02-2002, 23:46:15   #3
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Matt the award of the K to you stands but please go into the technicalitys so that the verification of future K's is reliable.
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Old 21-02-2002, 23:47:17   #4
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Hold on, I'll open the files up *this will take some time *
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Old 21-02-2002, 23:49:00   #5
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Thanks.
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Old 21-02-2002, 23:50:11   #6
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I am curious as to how DS’s math ‘remains consistent’ when all he posted was his view of the main forum page.
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Old 21-02-2002, 23:52:05   #7
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I don't know but histrorically he gets it right and that means I have to accept there may be a problem. Lets see what the others think in the morning.

Oh MattHiggs. I'm not going to worry about this tonight. It can wait til tomorrow.
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Old 21-02-2002, 23:52:10   #8
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Please do. Is it multiple queries? A dynaset? Snapshot?

If anyone is talking out their ass, Matt, it's you. If the MATH doesn't match, either the THREAD is wrong, or the forum summary page is. I'm inclined to believe it's the summary page.
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Old 22-02-2002, 00:01:54   #9
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I run three windows... one displaying the forum summary, one displaying the thread list, and one displaying the thread. You capture the state of the forum... do a back count. Repeat three times. If your forum isn't stable between the 3 screens refresh, then you start that particular cycle again.

In this thread's case, the ONLY thread to have any activity was the K hunt... makes for exact count backs.

You run the back trail check a few times, to make SURE you didn't get the very end or very start of change which would foul out the math process, and give an erroneous result.

During that checking, I had the fun of watching the forum summary change who it listed as last poster, but not it's count. That's what I'm curious about... how it can be right and wrong. If the NUMBER doesn't change, isn't the last poster going to remain consistant? Logic says it should, but that is not what I witnessed.
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Old 22-02-2002, 00:07:30   #10
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OK, I’m not too hot on you describing that as ‘math’, implying rigorous proof, but I accept your explanation (because it makes sense).

And I think it’s mutiple queries, but MySQL may be doing something different at its end.
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Old 22-02-2002, 00:29:34   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spartak
I don't know but histrorically he gets it right and that means I have to accept there may be a problem. Lets see what the others think in the morning.

Oh MattHiggs. I'm not going to worry about this tonight. It can wait til tomorrow.
"histrorically"? I think we should be told what this means!

DS is a Belbin 'plant', like me. He gets it right about 70% of the time, but is big enough to admit it when he is wrong, so let's just wait and see. The only real verification is by post number - as has been said before - as far as I can see.
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Old 22-02-2002, 01:56:38   #12
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I can't look at the files at the moment, due to the stupid F2S servers. Rest assured, I will look into exactly what the process is of updating the thread, creating the database entry and updating the forum view.
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Old 22-02-2002, 10:42:27   #13
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Dont know anyting about the technical side but I've had my doubts about the last post counter/thingy.

I remember one when someone had a post count screenshot like higgsys but if you looked at the current post count and counted back it didnt correlate (if i remember rightly there were about three-four post to count back and that was one more (or less) than the post that allegedly was the K)

I should declare a inside interest as it was me that had the K on countback but someone else one the post count.

couldn't we arrange some sort of experiment here - open another forum and get people to do some attempts to hit certain numbers and see if we can replicate it...
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Old 22-02-2002, 10:44:26   #14
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quick test post to see if I can catch the counter rolling
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Old 22-02-2002, 10:45:06   #15
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and another
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Old 22-02-2002, 10:49:42   #16
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I raised the issue over the 32K hunt as well.
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Old 22-02-2002, 11:04:00   #17
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You should rename yourself to "parasitic konsumer"
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Old 22-02-2002, 11:14:37   #18
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I have always enjoyed challenging conventional wisdom.
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Old 22-02-2002, 11:15:03   #19
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I'd point out that a posting of a screenshot of a K win can be easily faked and so shouldn't be taken as absolute evidence!
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Old 22-02-2002, 11:16:44   #20
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How dare you, you iconoclast!
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Old 22-02-2002, 13:02:53   #21
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I've been saying this shit has been wrong for weeks now.
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Old 22-02-2002, 13:11:18   #22
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Yeah! It's just not a K-hunt without controversy. And I was worried that the forum summary page would ruin it.
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Old 22-02-2002, 13:18:52   #23
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It's all arbitrary anyway.
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Old 22-02-2002, 15:00:26   #24
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Is the consensus then that we should resume manual counts?
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Old 22-02-2002, 15:09:22   #25
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Only if I get points for 32K
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Old 22-02-2002, 15:12:24   #26
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Do you really want to revisit every previous K hunt thread?
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Old 22-02-2002, 15:14:24   #27
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No. But that was the one where I raised doubts, then reinforced in the 33k thread.
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Old 22-02-2002, 15:15:12   #28
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And only if I get credit for the partials I'm due.
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Old 22-02-2002, 15:18:56   #29
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I'm not going to revisit every thread but if venom is prepared to give me a list, I'll consider it.
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Old 22-02-2002, 15:20:16   #30
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Nah. I'm just fucking with ya. I really don't give a damn.
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Old 22-02-2002, 15:21:26   #31
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But I'd believe RC in the 32k, I was all over other threads messing that one all up.
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Old 22-02-2002, 15:34:25   #32
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RC! RC!
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Old 22-02-2002, 15:37:56   #33
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Just booted 8K up to show another mismatch. For record I tend to work like DS - have a window open showing the summary then count back using the updated thread (ie if it says tizzys post is X998 and then you have 2 posts after it that one must be the K whatever the score card says)

As long as you have the summary pre K and the thread post K (and the thread list to check noones posted elsewhere) you cant get it wrong.

when it comes to me seeing something and the computer seeing something I know whos more likely to be right...
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Old 22-02-2002, 15:40:02   #34
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Yes you can get it wrong because whenever you refresh both threads, someone could post second after that so the windows you're looking at are wrong. Of course it's easy to compensate if it's just one person, not so easy if it's 3 or 4.
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Old 22-02-2002, 15:42:30   #35
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Look I got 33K not MattHiggs... I demand recompense!
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Old 22-02-2002, 15:44:19   #36
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I wouldn't doubt MattHiggs cheating. I think his screenshots are awfully blurry on purpose. To cover his tracks.
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Old 22-02-2002, 16:20:42   #37
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Reading over 8K, I think vBB should be the judge, unless two members can produce different screenshots. Of course I read over 8K and not this thread, so there may already be better ideas.
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Old 22-02-2002, 16:22:29   #38
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Hmm, then I saw Nav's screenshot...
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Old 22-02-2002, 16:51:37   #39
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Venom - thats why you do it several times.
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Old 22-02-2002, 16:58:58   #40
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I'ld like to claim 37K in advance!!!
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Old 22-02-2002, 17:24:26   #41
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I think the vB count is accurate though...
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Old 22-02-2002, 17:41:07   #42
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I posted the screenshot withing a minute of getting K, I swaer I'm not cheating. You can check the post id numbers if you want.
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Old 22-02-2002, 18:24:11   #43
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The post ID's don't mean anything anymore according to Darkstars thoughts.
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Old 22-02-2002, 18:52:52   #44
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Why not just write a little PHP script that opens all posts in this forum, then goes to the x000th?
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Old 22-02-2002, 19:01:22   #45
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That suggestion has already been posted but so far we await the management's pleasure.......
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Old 22-02-2002, 22:37:30   #46
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Please see the announcement in the Leaderboard.

Link in my sig.
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Old 22-02-2002, 22:39:31   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sean
Why not just write a little PHP script that opens all posts in this forum, then goes to the x000th?
That has been suggested before. It would make for a perfect showing. That's what MtG did for a couple of the Ks on FFZ, by the way.

And as Beta1 says, that's why you get a stable 'shot' set. And why our manual count method includes double and triple checks.

I am very curious to see the scripting for the forum summary.

I do not think Matt was cheating.
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Old 22-02-2002, 22:42:27   #48
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I'm sure he wasn't. Thank you for drawing this problem to my attention DS. Its manual recount time for future hunts.
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Old 22-02-2002, 23:04:07   #49
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Actually, I can see a problem with it. If there’s a post which counted towards a K (i.e. was posted before the K hunt) but is subsequently deleted, it will bugger up the count. Can’t see that happening too often, though.
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Old 22-02-2002, 23:07:06   #50
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Its not been a problem before.
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