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Old 13-12-2003, 15:55:00   #1
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Bowling for Columbine

I just watched this film and I thought it was really good. What does everyone else think?

I found it really upsetting to actually see footage of the rampage at the school and also the twin towers footage still makes me flinch.
I think its true that there's a culture of fear to be held accountable, its getting more like that here too, although as he points out, we do not have the availability of guns the US have. I have no doubt our death rate would be higher if we did.
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Old 13-12-2003, 16:36:58   #2
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I think it is a great film. It doesn't seem to find any answers though.
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Old 13-12-2003, 17:39:29   #3
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Film forum. I can’t even be bothered to !!!!! or that.

(It didn’t deserve the Oscar; The Kid Stays in the Picture was far more entertaining.)
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Old 13-12-2003, 19:43:39   #4
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I thought it had some good points, but it absolutely reeked of emotional manipulation, which invalidated for me everything the guy said.

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Old 13-12-2003, 22:14:26   #5
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I wasnt really trying to talk about the film per se, but the issues raised in it. It would be interesting to hear what the americans on here think.
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Old 13-12-2003, 22:21:15   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Penguin
it absolutely reeked of emotional manipulation
Wasn't that the point?
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Old 13-12-2003, 22:25:21   #7
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I thought he used less emotional manipulation than Charlton'I think I'm still in a film' Heston
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Old 14-12-2003, 10:43:09   #8
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why do they call it bowling? What do guns have to do with bowling?
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Old 14-12-2003, 10:59:12   #9
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The Columbine high-school kids went bowling the morning before their big rampage.
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Old 14-12-2003, 11:03:55   #10
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I think it is an American expression. Bowling for... soup?
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Old 14-12-2003, 11:04:20   #11
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Maybe Lurker can explain.
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Old 14-12-2003, 11:08:22   #12
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I just explained motherfuckers!

I guess it's just a reference to how casually they went about commiting a terrible crime.
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Old 14-12-2003, 11:41:36   #13
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Nah, a cheezy old game show...Bowling for Dollars
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Old 14-12-2003, 12:13:59   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
Wasn't that the point?
I find it hard to believe that Michael Moore is dedicating the whole of his life to making a point about the media being manipulative. And even if he is, there are better ways of doing so.

c.f. http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/
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Old 14-12-2003, 14:36:03   #15
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It's actually a fraud in many ways, more distorted a number of things, as he's an activist.
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Old 14-12-2003, 14:43:19   #16
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Obviously he's arguing the case from his point of view, but what's distorted?

An activist is just someone actively trying to do something. It isn't a bad thing to be.
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Old 14-12-2003, 14:55:20   #17
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It is if you lie and distort the opposing view, two things Moore does.

And I'm the most anti-gun person you will ever meet, BTW.
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Old 14-12-2003, 14:57:28   #18
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Do the ends justify the means?
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Old 14-12-2003, 15:03:57   #19
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What lies did he tell? (I'm not arguing obtusely, I'm actually interested.)
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Old 14-12-2003, 15:10:54   #20
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everything in that film was pretty fact based from what I could see, and his books are full of footnotes references and indexes so you can check he's not making stuff up

Its called bowling for Columbine because the kids went bowling that morning and he draws the point that while the media blamed marilyn manson, why not blame bowling for the crime? Manson acquits himself very well I thought.

I dont think he's devoted to exposing the media; he's dedicated to showing how he American government behaves illegally, irrationally and controls the populus through fear and ignorance. For that reason two years ago, having come to that conclusion myself, I stopped watching TV, but maybe that makes me more likely to accept Moore's views. Britain is definitely going the same way.
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Old 14-12-2003, 15:13:23   #21
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I find it quite funny that they chose Manson to blame because they obviously did'nt realise that he is a highly intelligent and articulate guy who can easily defend his corner.
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Old 14-12-2003, 15:29:44   #22
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yeah he is, and considering one of his songs is about not being a slave to guns, it was quite badly judged too
The more I see of Marilyn Manson the more I like him. I like the way he's just a big geek strutting around in daft clothes and weird makeup, and he's having a ball doing it.
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Old 14-12-2003, 15:58:06   #23
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Michael Moore is more dedicated to the service of Michael Moore than any other cause.
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Old 14-12-2003, 16:09:34   #24
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I like the way he is the guy from the wonder years.
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Old 14-12-2003, 20:49:25   #25
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It's a well made film, unfortunately it is northing short of propaganda.

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/
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Old 14-12-2003, 21:09:05   #26
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Er, I'm reading that site and it appears to be a bunch of bollocks.
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Old 14-12-2003, 21:21:13   #27
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The movie? Yes.

It should've been obvious to anyone that it was a bunch of bollucks.

Especially obvious to Canadians watching the bit on Canada in it.

It's simply bullshit, total bullshit.
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Old 14-12-2003, 21:25:53   #28
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It's a terrible film. Filled with lies, bullshit, and manufactured quotes and statistics. It's only rivals are old Nazi propaganda films.
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Old 14-12-2003, 21:40:03   #29
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Just who was Geobells anyway?
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Old 14-12-2003, 22:01:55   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sean
I find it hard to believe that Michael Moore is dedicating the whole of his life to making a point about the media being manipulative.
Well he is manipulating from his corner by halftruths and how he arranges them. That's a pretty mild satire of the extreme rightwing propaganda that rules US public discourse.
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Old 14-12-2003, 22:35:36   #31
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The first sentence is true, but I think Moore only claims it to be satirical or deliberate in retrospect or when challenged. Otherwise it seems he just does it because, hey, that’s what he does, like the guys at Fox.
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Old 14-12-2003, 22:38:47   #32
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I don't think he claims satire. He claims to be fair and balanced, rather, or?
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Old 14-12-2003, 22:51:51   #33
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ok, having seen that site, I agree that some of what Moore says in it is manipulative, even deceptive, and I already thought that the Heston nterview was pretty disgraceful, however some of the points on the website are just as manipulative.
Its an emotive subject and therein lies the rub, because its almost impossible to be emotionally detached.
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Old 14-12-2003, 22:55:54   #34
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"Roger and Me" is a far better film.
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Old 14-12-2003, 23:01:00   #35
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Asher- I'm reading that "Bowling for truth" site you linked, and I'm inclined to agree with SB. Can you recommend an anti-Moore site that isn't raging drivel?

Quote:
Moore NRA Racism

This trick is a very clever one, slipped into the scene. At the rally, a poster is shown very too quickly for the casual viewer to grasp it as it requires a good couple seconds to comprehend. The poster, as shown below, shows photos, left to right, Hitler, Castro, Qaddafi, and Stalin.



The text reads: "The Experts Agree. . . Gun Control Works!" Although it's hard to tell in the exact frame here below - the poster is shot in such a way that Hitler is the most prominent eye catching face and Stalin is off to the right. In 1.5 seconds, only speed readers and robots can read the text, so the intended effect seems to be to associate the NRA with Hitler.
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Old 14-12-2003, 23:09:04   #36
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Sure, it's fanatical, but it serves as a nice counter to the equally fanatical and equally ridiculous Bowling for Columbine.

Roger Moore is simply a manipulative bastard, and too many people are too stupid to realize what he's doing -- so they pay to watch propaganda and then sing its praise.
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Old 14-12-2003, 23:14:07   #37
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Yeah...I liked him better when he didn't fancy himself the liberal darling.
He had a bit more heart and compassion.
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Old 14-12-2003, 23:28:17   #38
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Have you read Hunter S Thompson? I suspect Moore is his direct descendent.
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Old 14-12-2003, 23:34:57   #39
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Uh...Hunter S. Thompson is a gun blazing, coke snorting maniac.
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Old 14-12-2003, 23:47:50   #40
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actually they blamed Rammstein as well as Marylyn Manson.
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Old 15-12-2003, 00:30:49   #41
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Am I missing something?? What has Roger Moore done thats so bad except make some dodgy TV movies and go skiing in G'staad?
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Old 15-12-2003, 00:35:20   #42
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Roger Moore was my favorite Bond.
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Old 15-12-2003, 00:44:59   #43
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View to a Kill is the best Bond- best theme, best villain best plot-to-take-over-the-world.
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Old 15-12-2003, 00:49:31   #44
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Christopher Walken made that movie.

He is my favorite actor. Brilliant.
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Old 15-12-2003, 00:49:47   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigGameHunter
Uh...Hunter S. Thompson is a gun blazing, coke snorting maniac.
Ya that's him

One of my favorite writers
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Old 15-12-2003, 00:54:10   #46
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Christopher Walken is always brilliant in any movie. Its his psycho eyes. I'm trying to remember his classic line in View to a Kill... help me out!
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Old 15-12-2003, 01:00:00   #47
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Yup, Walken is great in everything. My particular favorite Walken moments are when he dies at the end of King of New York and, obviously, his scene with Dennis Hopper in True Romance.
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Old 15-12-2003, 01:02:39   #48
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He's my all-time favorite host of SNL.

Just the other day I re-downloaded the infamous Cowbell scene. Great stuff.
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Old 15-12-2003, 01:05:25   #49
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I love him as Annie Hall's brother in Annie Hall. That scene is classic- one of the best cameos ever
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Old 15-12-2003, 01:12:36   #50
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Does he fish? He must.
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