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Old 19-11-2003, 15:06:02   #201
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I can't help feeling that is illegal under the terms of the WTO. I guess it's a bit more unilateralism.
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:06:33   #202
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It is but so are the steel tarifs.
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:10:31   #203
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great sense of timing

anyway, the fortress america doesn't make sense : remember, the whole world pays for the US interior debt (through the $) because it expects the US economy to continue performing better than others. You don't perform well economically with an Albanian economic policy.

No fortress America up until the US pays up its debts, and it ain't going to happen
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:11:32   #204
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the sad, awful truth is that we all need each other, if we want to reasonnably prosper...
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:13:03   #205
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Absolutely.
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:17:09   #206
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Quote:
Originally posted by Funkodrom
It is but so are the steel tarifs.
that's what I was referring to
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:17:32   #207
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Personaly I think the WTO has merely backfired on American industry, usually it's spends its time battering into 3rd world economies so that they can be hollowed out by American and Western coprorations.

On a seperate note, I think I have to admit to being anti-American, I can't help it... not the people, but their State, I think I learnt too much about their foriegn policy in history. I've lost innocence, and I regret that. The world looks a much shittier place as a result.
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:17:42   #208
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Oh.

OK, in that case pretend I said yes.
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:21:39   #209
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Actually, to expand on Qweeg's comments - I have to say that as well as being anti the govt, it stands to reason that those who actively support his policies are a bunch of wankers as well.

Still, that does leave a majority of Americans who aren't the immediate subject of my ire...
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:22:08   #210
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Quote:
Originally posted by maroule

great sense of timing

anyway, the fortress america doesn't make sense : remember, the whole world pays for the US interior debt (through the $) because it expects the US economy to continue performing better than others. You don't perform well economically with an Albanian economic policy.

No fortress America up until the US pays up its debts, and it ain't going to happen
exactly right - the US boom can only continue as long as the rest of the world keeps investing there matching their current account deficit. If Bush were to spark capital flight from America then the US boom would come to a shuddering halt and he would look like a patsy of special interest groups to the newly impoverished American consumer by the time of the next election.

It can reasonably be argued that it would require spectacularly inept handling to allow that state of affairs to come to pass......

But, in seriousness, the reality is more prosaic but all it needs is a shift in sentiment towards not continuing to finance this and the brakes could well be applied to the economy and nobody in Butthump, Wyoming or wherever will really thank Dubya for that.
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:23:46   #211
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Quote:
Originally posted by Resource Consumer

It can reasonably be argued that it would require spectacularly inept handling to allow that state of affairs to come to pass......

So we can expect it with almost certainty.
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:24:42   #212
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Quote:
Originally posted by Qweeg
On a seperate note, I think I have to admit to being anti-American, I can't help it... not the people, but their State, I think I learnt too much about their foriegn policy in history. I've lost innocence, and I regret that. The world looks a much shittier place as a result.
Didn't they teach you any British history? We were loads worse than they are now.
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:27:33   #213
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Ah, but now we are just slightly better than them! The moral high ground is ours!
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:30:08   #214
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YEAH!!! Maybe we do sell 'training' jets to genocidal indonesian dictators but when we do it we'll make sure we say they can't be used for operations against their own people. If they ignore that... well. We'll sell them slightly less in future. Which'll teach them.
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:30:32   #215
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Quote:
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Didn't they teach you any British history? We were loads worse than they are now.
And wasn't it you who mentioned not bringing up the past in this thread - I could be wrong?

If we were talking about past UK shit, I would be one of the first to condemn it as I do when we have those threads - the point is that America is acting like we used to and it's shit, as we all know...

I mean, we still do shit stuff, like illegally invading Iraq and suchlike - but it is a lot less than we used to.

Last edited by MOBIUS; 19-11-2003 at 15:34:10.
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:31:29   #216
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Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
So we can expect it with almost certainty.
I had a bet with myself as to who would be the first one to feed on that line. I think the last paragragh is the more likely scenario.
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:32:28   #217
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No, it wasn't me.

My point really was that America acts like we still act, just on a bigger scale. We are over there in Iraq with them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/ethical/0,2759,181072,00.html

Not that I'm supporting us doing it but we're no better than them.
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:34:14   #218
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RC:

The correction is inevitable. But Bush and co will do everything to get elected, and they seem genuinely clueless. Eg the brewing trade war with China and the EU, Snow's campaign for a free floating of asian currencies... so I really think that at one point they'll do a blunder big enough to get things unravelling.
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:37:37   #219
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Actually, come to think about it - it's probably because we're now a shitty little country with no power and if we did have the power of the US we'd be just as shitty as them...

Wow, rather sad that...

Perhaps we should do ourselves a favour and nuke the hell out of each other (well, I haven't seen 'Threads' for a start!) as we obviously don't deserve to exist as a race...
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Old 19-11-2003, 15:38:53   #220
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Yep, and pinko liberals like us would protest against it and nothing'd change
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Old 19-11-2003, 16:05:16   #221
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Quote:
Originally posted by Funkodrom
No, it wasn't me.

My point really was that America acts like we still act, just on a bigger scale. We are over there in Iraq with them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/ethical/0,2759,181072,00.html

Not that I'm supporting us doing it but we're no better than them.
Exactly! Which is why we must always argue from a non-patriotic/in my countries best intrest standpoint.
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Old 19-11-2003, 16:27:09   #222
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I watched Bush's speech today.

I wish they had put him in a glass box like David Blaine.
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Old 19-11-2003, 16:40:04   #223
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Darkstar should be writing science fiction. He's got such a fertile imagination.

The rest of you are all gay twats.

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Old 19-11-2003, 20:59:50   #224
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I wish you guys would learn, and not discuss this stuff.

All it does it get people pissed off, and I have no desire to get mad reading stuff here.
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Old 20-11-2003, 00:17:41   #225
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Stop reading it then. This is pretty tame stuff...

I did see something interesting on the news this morning. They ran a Gallop poll that showed that over 70% of all British subjects polled support the US 100%. Of course, they had the protestors on for the video, so it was rather funny.

I guess many of you Queen's subjects are the 3 out of 10 that don't swallow every the Big Sister Statia does as good for you as well then?

Venom, we are not going to dump or shut out our friends of the UK. They own over 40% of the US, in the first place. Our economy is so intertwined, it would be impossible for anyone to even start figuring out how to cut them out. We'd have to ANNEX them... make the States #51 through #57 or so...

Germany is another country we'd have a very difficult time shutting out. They are #3 for total ownership of America, right after the Canadians. And again, our industries are practically extensions of each other.

This is just the whining and complaining of smaller nationals with a few worries. If things were reversed, and we were the minor and they the major super-power, we'd be whining and they'd be telling us to go fuck of, they are going to make Fortress Germany or Fortess Brown Card or whatever. The behavior of the big dog and the littler dogs complaining about it has not changed since people have first started raising flags and claiming to be citizens of countries.
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Old 20-11-2003, 00:21:39   #226
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Are you sure it was Gallup, DS, or are you using that as a generic term? I wanted to find more about it but can’t see it on their site.

Of course, if they did it for someone else they may not carry that information in an easily-accessible way. But if you have any other details, I would appreciate it.
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Old 20-11-2003, 00:24:21   #227
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As far as the steel tariffs go... last I heard, "we" were not worried about UK products... just cheaper stuff that was inferior from other parts of the EU. Are UK products getting tariffed to prevent the old shell game of shipping through UK and having it stamped "made in UK" or whatever?

I do know that there are some serious Big Boy in Bush's Old Boy Network that have special "Defense" status for their Steel Mills, which make of the majority of the mills left in the US, and that under various "Defend America/Patriot" Acts, HAVE to have their will down by the Fedies. All that, you know, to prevent having all the mills move to India and China, and then they become a new Axis of Evil and start conquering the world, leaving no steel to make the instruments of liberity to keep America (and our friends) safe. Seriously. No SF there, Lurks...

Personally, I find that Patriotically Protected status ridiculous, since the number of mills that are being kept and babied are much too small to keep the War Machine fed. Or even allow for the building of enough new mills to get the War Machine running in a reasonable amount of time, according to the DoD's own projections of a "Fortress America/UK" scenario.
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Old 20-11-2003, 00:28:18   #228
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Sean, I'm not *positive* it was Gallup. It was featured on FoxNews (broadcast), and most of their polls are Gallup, so I presumed.

They also ran a bit about the history of that approval rating, according to previous poll ratings. They had been saying that UK subject for support had been bouncing around, but was on the rise again. They said right after Sept 11, US support shot to 95%, then dropped and steadied out to 75% up until the Iraqi invasion. Then it dropped to 55%. Once "Major Hostilities" had ceased, approval had started to rise until it had reached it's current peak of 70%.
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Old 20-11-2003, 00:42:57   #229
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argh we all know america are acting like twats, and that we used to act like twats with our Colonial ways but we do have a good alliance with them in many ways, and they do do some positive things in the world (although the Bush Administration is making that hard to remember).

I don't agree with the process of the Iraq thing but the net effect was to get rid of a torturing murdering genocidal bastard. No one complained when we raized Dresden to the ground to try and lower German morale and oust Hitler. Husseins crimes are on a par with Hitlers but probably went on for longer. We just didnt care about it for ages because the people in Iraq are brown and speak funny. In my view, deposing the genocidal old c*nt can be nothing but a benefit to the people of Iraq and the surrounding countries and America are pouring billions into reconstructing the country's infrastructure and ability to trade. Enforcing democracy is undemocratic, but I think its good they are getting a chance to live normally.

However the fortress America attitude is what puts people's backs up- America likes to believe it doesnt need the outside world but it does, and sept 11 was a big wake up call to that fact. They need us for trade, alliance, intelligence and cooperation. Why can't America respect other countries instead of always acting like its doing us a favour? Americans as individuals often bring up WW2 as an example of how America 'bailed us out' but realistically they took three years to bother getting involved and then only when their own interests were threatened. yes they helped but they didnt win for us. Its this patronising attitude I think Brits find galling. Plus when does the statute of limitations apply? Do we really still have to lick their arse now because of something 60 years ago? SImilarly, do Brits have to apologise for disliking American foreign policy now because we used to go invading places like India?

I think most countries have/will have a shot at being World leader.
We had it, Rome had it, etc. America should take heed at the drastic fall of Empires before it and temper its attitude & approach sometimes. It should listen to countries who have more experience in world affairs and not assume that money and firepower wins the day and the argument.

However much we dislike their policies and domination tho, its a scary thought as to who would take over as world leader if they collapsed...worth thinking about.

I'll have fries with that.
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Old 20-11-2003, 00:45:29   #230
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that was very long and quite rambling wasnt it?

I'm on the fence basically
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Old 20-11-2003, 00:47:26   #231
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Actually, if we take heed that we won't be top dog forever, then we REALLY should get in our licks now.

China, Japan, India, and Indonesia are all top of the list for who is posed to take over as Top Dog, according to a State Department list on "Who takes over when the US stumbles". Personally, while I can understand that group of 4, I think the next top dog isn't really that easily predicted at this time.
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Old 20-11-2003, 00:50:26   #232
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I think it will be Tuva, and they will use their commerical imperialism to force the rest of the world in learning throat singing.
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Old 20-11-2003, 00:50:44   #233
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It still takes military power to be the top dog. Even though the pussy peaceniks think otherwise. Japan don't have that and neither does Indonesia. China or India are most likely.
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Old 20-11-2003, 00:53:54   #234
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Japan is going to abandon their limited military stance in a short amount of time... It's been building for a long time now. They've already had 2 different votes on the matter. Pretty soon, they'll have some real military, to guard and look after "Japanese interests" throughout the world.
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Old 20-11-2003, 00:56:02   #235
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I hope to fuck it isnt China

I believe America is already on the decline, I think we could see a major change of fortunes in the next hundred years.
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Old 20-11-2003, 00:58:02   #236
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‘We’?

Hoping for an improvement in anti-aging treatments?
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Old 20-11-2003, 00:58:24   #237
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Aging? Ageing?
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Old 20-11-2003, 00:59:36   #238
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Ageing
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Old 20-11-2003, 01:00:38   #239
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It's "aging" as far as I know.

And it certainly is possible, considering that a few nano-carbon structures are already highly targetted at cancer cells... If we can actually get nano tech to do a few more things, and it is easily possible you'll live for a couple of centuries. The only serious question is what kind of mental capacity will you have for that extra 140 or so years...
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Old 20-11-2003, 01:02:02   #240
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I ain’t got much to lose.
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Old 20-11-2003, 01:05:08   #241
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Nanotech...HA! Not anytime soon.
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Old 20-11-2003, 01:08:00   #242
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its ageing...
I studied English
Now thats something I do hate Americans for- the invasion, rape and pillage of the English language

Fuck off my land you Yankee bastards!!
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Old 20-11-2003, 01:11:30   #243
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Yeah Sean, you Yankee bastard.
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Old 20-11-2003, 01:12:47   #244
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Hey, I was supporting the Marlins.
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Old 20-11-2003, 01:13:29   #245
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As well you should.
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Old 20-11-2003, 01:14:38   #246
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angelhorns
its ageing...
I studied English
Now thats something I do hate Americans for- the invasion, rape and pillage of the English language

Fuck off my land you Yankee bastards!!
And I hate to be picky, actually no I wouldn't, but you gave us the language. We raped what you gave us.
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Old 20-11-2003, 01:15:05   #247
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‘She was asking for it’?
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Old 20-11-2003, 01:15:24   #248
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venom arent you meant to be building a fortress right now? ;-)
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Old 20-11-2003, 01:17:07   #249
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Nope. I'll let others do that. I'm planning to kill you all.
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Old 20-11-2003, 01:17:30   #250
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we didnt give you it, a load of people took it away with them, mixed it around with hispanic and Irish and Jewish stuff, and then gave it back to us totally screwed!

You ruined our best toy!!

Swine
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