Counterglow Forums  

Go Back   Counterglow Forums > General Discussions > Music

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 24-04-2003, 19:43:01   #1
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
Listen Without Predjudice 4 - Part 4

http://www.counterglow.com/article.php?id=lwp4_4

Enjoy!
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 19:44:50   #2
Sean
Rhubarb
 
Sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: God knows
No link on the front page?

And whoops, noticed a formatting error.
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 19:46:21   #3
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
You have to make the thread before you publish it. Dunno why.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 19:48:34   #4
Sean
Rhubarb
 
Sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: God knows
Fixed.
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 19:52:01   #5
*End Is Forever*
Registered User
 
*End Is Forever*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Counterglow
For the second successive section I guessed Laz twice in a vain attempt to get it right, and for the second successive section I failed utterly pathetically. Rock.
*End Is Forever* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 19:55:56   #6
*End Is Forever*
Registered User
 
*End Is Forever*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Counterglow
Quote:
Comment on track 8 by Funkodrom
I wonder if EiF will say “If I wanted to listen to stuff like this I’d go to the temple”.
Actually it sounds rather like what they play as background music in the various curryhouses in York. Hence "Noor That's What I Call Music", a tribute to the late and unlamented Noor Jahan International Curryhouse on Fishergate.
*End Is Forever* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 20:03:35   #7
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
Reggae isn't world music.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 20:05:56   #8
*End Is Forever*
Registered User
 
*End Is Forever*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Counterglow
I'd have thought you'd despise "world music" as an appalling racist Western-centric term anyway Johan?

It is rather an absurd name anyway. Surely all music is world music? Unless there's a recording studio on the moon that one of the major labels is keeping hidden away...
*End Is Forever* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 20:11:03   #9
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
David Byrne says it much better than I ever could (while also mentioning one of the other bands on this compilation in the passing):

http://www.davidbyrne.com/cmp/worldmusic.html
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 20:16:38   #10
*End Is Forever*
Registered User
 
*End Is Forever*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Counterglow
Surely by his definition reggae is world music...?
*End Is Forever* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 20:21:48   #11
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
By his definition nothing is world music.

By my defintion it's the stuff the western people who like world music call world music, ie. the safe, "authentic" stuff. Reggae, which has since the very beginning (and continually) been influenced by whatever the prevailing American sound happens to be doesn't qualify.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 20:51:09   #12
BigGameHunter
Hunter of Game
 
BigGameHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Lost in the jungle
Christ...I don't think I guessed one right this time....argh. I suppose I'm going to have to move to Europe and be your newf if I'm going to improve on my dismal record.

Surprised I hadn't heard of The Decmeberists...I'll have to look into that. Also still surprised how much most of you hate what I enjoy and are swept away on rapturous clouds of fanatic love for things I think are being painfully and obviously "clever".

Pretty good section, that.
__________________
BOOM!
BigGameHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 21:01:14   #13
Debaser
Badass Monkey
 
Debaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: In a tree.
"World music" isn't a genre, its a section in music shops for all the stuff that sounds a bit different and foreign to a western ear.

Good article again. Well done to all the people who guessed my track......hang on, none of you did. Mwahaha!
Debaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 21:06:54   #14
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
You would have been my second guess.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 21:14:34   #15
Lazarus and the Gimp
Howling at the moon
 
Lazarus and the Gimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The radioactive Somerset coast
Hooray! I guessed wrong on every one! Again!

Next week I'll guess "Asher" for every track. It'll improve my odds of getting one right.
Lazarus and the Gimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 21:15:05   #16
Debaser
Badass Monkey
 
Debaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: In a tree.
Aww, I'm touched.


Edit: Damn you Laz, this reply was not intended for you!

Last edited by Debaser; 24-04-2003 at 21:17:15.
Debaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 21:19:28   #17
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
So where the fuck am I going to get hold of a copy of Colossal Youth? I don't want to import a european CD from the US, seems pointless.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 21:23:34   #18
Lazarus and the Gimp
Howling at the moon
 
Lazarus and the Gimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The radioactive Somerset coast
I got mine through Rough Trade's on-line shop.
Lazarus and the Gimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 21:27:06   #19
Sean
Rhubarb
 
Sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: God knows
Which currently just has an error message. Woo.
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 21:28:36   #20
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
Woo.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 21:31:26   #21
Debaser
Badass Monkey
 
Debaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: In a tree.
Have you tried *whispers* Kazza Lite?
Debaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 21:32:35   #22
Sean
Rhubarb
 
Sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: God knows
How will that help me to buy a CD?
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 21:32:45   #23
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
An ILLEGAL copy you mean? No Way!
I want CD-Quality sound.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 21:36:41   #24
Lazarus and the Gimp
Howling at the moon
 
Lazarus and the Gimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The radioactive Somerset coast
Want a copy burned?
Lazarus and the Gimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 21:56:49   #25
BigGameHunter
Hunter of Game
 
BigGameHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Lost in the jungle
I noticed that protein has fully integrated your album into his collection, Funky!

I love it when people do that...
__________________
BOOM!
BigGameHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2003, 22:34:32   #26
King_Ghidra@home
Registered User
 
King_Ghidra@home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Some bird i was shagging at uni nicked my Orb 'adventures in the underworld' album off me. That pissed me off a bit, but i did nick a 1950's copy of Sartre's Nausea off her, so it was a fair trade in some ways.
King_Ghidra@home is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 06:47:02   #27
BigGameHunter
Hunter of Game
 
BigGameHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Lost in the jungle
There are so many CD's and tapes I've gotten ripped off...how does that happen? Probably the umpteen roommates I've had.
I've learned not to lend any more...too much potential resentment.
__________________
BOOM!
BigGameHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 08:07:08   #28
Funkodrom
Die Müfzwerge
 
Funkodrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Drowning in a sea of retarded sexuality and bad poetry
Quote:
Originally posted by BigGameHunter
I noticed that protein has fully integrated your album into his collection, Funky!

I love it when people do that...
Nah, he genuinely lost that one I think. Good track though.
__________________
protein: Bryan Adams rocks
Blog - Band Müf Gigs 5th March BerkshireLive Aid
Funkodrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 08:10:29   #29
Funkodrom
Die Müfzwerge
 
Funkodrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Drowning in a sea of retarded sexuality and bad poetry
And no further embarassment for me there! *phew*
__________________
protein: Bryan Adams rocks
Blog - Band Müf Gigs 5th March BerkshireLive Aid
Funkodrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 08:12:48   #30
Funkodrom
Die Müfzwerge
 
Funkodrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Drowning in a sea of retarded sexuality and bad poetry
If I didn't have a £900 credit card bill and owe K_G £100 I'd get the Yeah Yeah Yeahs album.
__________________
protein: Bryan Adams rocks
Blog - Band Müf Gigs 5th March BerkshireLive Aid
Funkodrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 08:16:03   #31
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
Quote:
Originally posted by Debaser
"World music" isn't a genre, its a section in music shops for all the stuff that sounds a bit different and foreign to a western ear.
I wish that it were so. But there are "world music fans" out there. In Stockholm they all live on Södermalm and buy their records from an incense-smelling shop called Multikulti which carries everything from middle-aged african troubareurs to low-key brazilian Jazz, but no Bhangra, Soca, Reggae, Carioca Funk, Zouk, Bongo Flava or other music that's actually listened to in the countries concerned.
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 08:25:09   #32
King_Ghidra
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo
 
King_Ghidra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: MORAL HARDCORE CHAMPION
Quote:
Originally posted by Funkodrom
If I didn't have a £900 credit card bill and owe K_G £100 I'd get the Yeah Yeah Yeahs album.
ah i forgot about that! bank details on the way!
__________________
i check my hair at the elevator mirror and the highlight of my day when I say hi to a girl who's opposite of the elevator door at my floor. the one i went out with.
after that, it's the same old fucking thing all over again.
-paiktis
King_Ghidra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 08:50:46   #33
BigGameHunter
Hunter of Game
 
BigGameHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Lost in the jungle
I think it's called "ethnic" in my local stores....but I'm not sure, as I don't ever look at bongo music save for Reggae.
__________________
BOOM!
BigGameHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 08:53:51   #34
Funkodrom
Die Müfzwerge
 
Funkodrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Drowning in a sea of retarded sexuality and bad poetry
To be honest it doesn't matter what it's called, it only matters if it's good or not.
__________________
protein: Bryan Adams rocks
Blog - Band Müf Gigs 5th March BerkshireLive Aid
Funkodrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 09:05:31   #35
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
Wrong bongo. "Bongo" means "brain" in Swahili and is the Tanzanian nickname for Dar es Salaam or TZ as a whole. "Bongo Flava" is TZ Hip Hop, easily one of the most prolific musical scenes in Africa right now with an enormous fan-base in TZ, Kenya, DRC, etc.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 12:10:58   #36
protein
a dirty rotter.
 
protein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: dans le studio
Quote:
Originally posted by Funkodrom
To be honest it doesn't matter what it's called, it only matters if it's good or not.
That was pretty much the point of putting this on the compilation. I put it on because I think it is one of the best bits of music I have.

If it weren't for Bob Marley making Jamaican music accessable for middle class white people (like you) it would be in the "World Music" section of your record shops.
__________________
http://bobbybloomfield.com
protein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 13:16:39   #37
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
Before Bob Marley's first album was released Jamaican songs had already charted top 40 in the UK several dozen times, become the musical sound of one white, middle-class subculture (Skinheads) and a highly regarded part of another (Mods), and produced at least one #1 hit (Dave and Ansel Collins's "Double Barrel"). The amount of reggae records sold in the UK since Marley broke in 1972 (and the amount of serious, large-scale Reggae interest) largely pales in insignificance, with the exception of a couple of novelty records (Althia and Donna's "Uptown Top Ranking", etc.). You're talking out of your hat, mate.

But even if that were not the case, I doubt reggae records (except possibly old-style roots ones) would make it into the World Music shelves (or into the specialist shops) just as you don't see Soca or Bhangra records there. There's no place in world music for stuff that is non-"authentic", has a youthful rock'n'roll attitude, that is allowed to be immature, fun and poppy. I would barely have any idea such music existed were it not for a combination of a few dedicated reviewers in Swedish newspapers, the web, BBC Radio 1xtra, Swedish radio show P3 Rytm and the one record store in Stockholm that actually sells Soca records. Yet certainly in the relevant communities (whether immigrant in the West or the third world) such music is massive. Meanwhile, the "world music" stuff basically only goes to our white, middle-class world. Why should it be that way?

Last edited by Scabrous Birdseed; 25-04-2003 at 13:18:55.
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 15:15:21   #38
BigGameHunter
Hunter of Game
 
BigGameHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Lost in the jungle
It probably won't be for long, if R&B, Blues and even "Country" are any indication of how "ethnic" music insinuates itself as the launch pad for more mainstream recognition. If you think about it, the entire music world owes its parentage to one form or another of originally "ethnic" stylings...it just takes a bit for it to make it. With the exception of some electronica and Muzak, it all comes from some barrio, cotton field or plantation, originally.
Patience...patience.
__________________
BOOM!
BigGameHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 16:36:40   #39
Lazarus and the Gimp
Howling at the moon
 
Lazarus and the Gimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The radioactive Somerset coast
Quote:
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Before Bob Marley's first album was released Jamaican songs had already charted top 40 in the UK several dozen times, become the musical sound of one white, middle-class subculture (Skinheads) and a highly regarded part of another (Mods), and produced at least one #1 hit (Dave and Ansel Collins's "Double Barrel"). The amount of reggae records sold in the UK since Marley broke in 1972 (and the amount of serious, large-scale Reggae interest) largely pales in insignificance, with the exception of a couple of novelty records (Althia and Donna's "Uptown Top Ranking", etc.). You're talking out of your hat, mate.
Do what? Glossing over Eddy Grant, UB40, Aswad, Steel Pulse, I feel. To say nothing of bands like The Police. Have you given Qweeg your password?
Lazarus and the Gimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 16:46:57   #40
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
But they are already fully developed musical styles, centred around recording studios, clubs and in the case of Soca, carnivals. You couldn't go out onto a field in Trinidad and find a peasant crafting a banging Chutney* anthem- he couldn't possibly afford Pro Tools, and the weather would play merry hell with expensive synthesisers.

No, the stuff that does end up here is precisely the 80-year-old-peasant-strumming-traditional-instrument-on-the-serene-hilltop stuff, perpetuating the myth that the third world consists entirely of backward, primitive, authentic (or mature, spiritual, different) people. The stuff I like is all music that, while certainly different in style from American Hip-Hop, shares the same basic values about progress, change, borrowing influences and fierce competitiveness, music that defies purism and regression. Music that's certainly commercial, but in the very best sense of the word, artists and producers trying to be better, smarter, newer than each other all the time while vying for the attention of a knowledgeable, concious audience. Ironically, it is precisely this kind of music which is difficult to get hold of in the west.

* Soca with a slight south asian influence, usually performed by the Indian minority on Trinidad. Actually I just wanted to refrain from using Soca as an example twice in a row.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 16:49:27   #41
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
Quote:
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Do what? Glossing over Eddy Grant, UB40, Aswad, Steel Pulse, I feel. To say nothing of bands like The Police. Have you given Qweeg your password?
I meant the Jamaican stuff.

I'll admit a couple of Taxi hits in the 80s, a bit of lovers rock now and then (Ken Booth, etc., barely counts) and quite a lot of Jamaican artists doing pop, like Shaggy, Maxi Priest and Diana King.
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 17:08:09   #42
Sean
Rhubarb
 
Sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: God knows
So music created by people who live there doesn’t count, because not everyone there likes it or listens to it? What bullshit.
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 17:19:13   #43
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
Did I say that? No, all I'm saying is that for large communities here it's the other way around.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 17:21:12   #44
Lazarus and the Gimp
Howling at the moon
 
Lazarus and the Gimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The radioactive Somerset coast
So would you like a copy of "Colossal Youth" or not?
Lazarus and the Gimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 17:25:41   #45
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
Lemme find out of Rought Trade has it first or not. I'm a bit uncomfortable with copying CDs to be honest, catholic guilt etc. I mean, if it turns out it's abandonware...
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 17:36:09   #46
Sean
Rhubarb
 
Sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: God knows
Then you buy it second-hand.
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 17:42:07   #47
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
Doesn't benefit the original artists, therefore meaningless.
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 17:48:21   #48
Sean
Rhubarb
 
Sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: God knows
What about the cover art?
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 17:51:08   #49
Scabrous Birdseed
for your usergroup and post count
 
Scabrous Birdseed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Among the clouds
Gets stashed in one of my shelves never to see the light of day again. The Disc is more important...
__________________
Birdseed's Tunedown
Scabrous Birdseed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2003, 17:53:23   #50
Sean
Rhubarb
 
Sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: God knows
Ah yes, the disc itself. Surely you would prefer a mass-produced CD with the correct design to something burned on a CD-R.
Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 23:10:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© Counterglow 2001-2012. All rights reserved.