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Old 12-04-2003, 12:12:18   #1
Funkodrom
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LWP 4 Part 2

http://www.counterglow.com/article.php?id=LWP4pt2
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Old 12-04-2003, 12:23:31   #2
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My notes. I didn't recognise that Tool song, glad I decided not to shell out for that EP even though I really like them.

I have absolutely no recollection of Debaser sending me a detroit cobras song.
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Old 12-04-2003, 12:24:57   #3
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I get the impression protein thinks i have appalling taste in music.

Surprised by that Toll track, the stuff i have is much better.
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Old 12-04-2003, 12:26:02   #4
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I guessed Sean for the obvious EiF track.
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Old 12-04-2003, 12:28:40   #5
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I'm just waiting for a smaller image so I can publish it properly.
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Old 12-04-2003, 12:38:12   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Shaker
I get the impression protein thinks i have appalling taste in music.

Surprised by that Toll track, the stuff i have is much better.
Everyone thinks you have appaling taste in music. You bring it on yourself with all that Emperor shit.
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Old 12-04-2003, 12:39:49   #7
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I was actually fairly surprised that only one person recognized the Tool track, I know it's not from one of their best-known albums but I figured the singing would give it away. Guess not. The EP is worth the money if you can get it at a discount (like I did), I think it's pretty good but a bit short (only 6 songs, and they're shorter than usual as well).
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Old 12-04-2003, 12:52:40   #8
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Damn you, Laz. I was one away from a perfect score, and what makes it worse was that it was my favourite track from that bit.
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Old 12-04-2003, 13:26:36   #9
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Well, at least I'm not the most predictable this week...
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Old 12-04-2003, 14:49:30   #10
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Oh dear i really fucked up on that daisy chainsaw track

i knew it was either them or transvision vamp and i convinced myswelf it was transivsion vamp and i knew i should check before i submitted my review but to my eternal shame i didn't
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Old 12-04-2003, 14:58:32   #11
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Okay, some statistics. Sean and Scabrous Birdseed were the most predictable this week, 7 people guessed their tracks were indeed theirs. Laz was the least predictable, with 0 correct guesses, and Provost scored second best in that regard (2 people guessed the REM track was his).

Sean was the best guesser, with 7 correct guesses. Four people share second place: Debaser, King Ghidra, Provost and me, each with 4 correct guesses. Iain and Sneak made only 1 correct guess.

Finally, Mike was the most misguessed person this week: ten times someone incorrectly claimed a track was his. RC is a close second with 9. Provost and Iain were both misguessed only twice.

The full numbers:
Correct guesses. Misguessed. Track guessed.
Mr. Bas 4 7 4
PH 4 2 2
Iain 1 2 5
Sean 7 4 7
RC 2 9 -
Laz 2 6 0
Mike 3 10 -
protein 2 6 3
debaser 4 3 4
shaker 2 6 -
king g. 4 4 6
SB 2 7 7
sneak 1 - -

Last edited by Mr. Bas; 12-04-2003 at 16:20:45.
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Old 12-04-2003, 15:11:45   #12
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Good stuff Bas, I was hoping someone else would do them this time. Interesting that SB was misguessed as many times as correctly guessed.
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Old 12-04-2003, 15:12:58   #13
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I've gone through and fixed the minor tag errors. I'll give the image thing a shot as well...

Er, I know the title of the compilation I recommended makes it sound like a pile of wank, but it's absolutely brilliant. At least 30 of the 40 songs are truly killer, this isn't even one of the better ones I think.
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Old 12-04-2003, 15:21:47   #14
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Okay, I have no idea how to actually publish. I've reduced the picture to less than 10k no less than twice, in different formats, and I still can't use it.
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Old 12-04-2003, 15:55:33   #15
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RC: why did you guess Guy for one of the tracks?
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Old 12-04-2003, 15:55:34   #16
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Much like Funko I picked th person I thought the REM track would most annoy... I knew it was PH but only 'cos Laz said it was REM, so I thought guessing that would be cheating.
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Old 12-04-2003, 16:37:10   #17
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It's all published and shit. Debaser sent me a 10K BMP instead of a 10K jpg but I decided to convert it and publish anyway despite his retardedness.

Everyone keeps guessing me for rock tracks, didn't I mention that I haven't put any rock on here?
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Old 12-04-2003, 16:45:25   #18
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I haven’t guessed you at all yet (!).
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Old 12-04-2003, 16:51:33   #19
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Cool.

Also that thing about no rock was potentially a lie, one track is very debatable.
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Old 12-04-2003, 17:01:02   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Debaser sent me a 10K BMP instead of a 10K jpg but I decided to convert it and publish anyway despite his retardedness.
I read somewhere on here that BMP's were fine. I couldn't get it small enough as a jpg without it looking totally shit.
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Old 12-04-2003, 17:04:22   #21
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Compression 15 or so looks fine and is only 2k.
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Old 12-04-2003, 17:06:43   #22
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When I converted that BMP you sent me to a jpg it became 2K instead of 11.1. I assume a 50K bmp might go down to around 10K.
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Old 12-04-2003, 17:16:21   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Debaser
I read somewhere on here that BMP's were fine. I couldn't get it small enough as a jpg without it looking totally shit.
I think they said that because they were willing to convert it .
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Old 12-04-2003, 17:21:15   #24
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Any idea why I wasn't able to publish it? I uploaded compressed versions of the image to my own space, but it still kept saying it wasn't the right file type.
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Old 12-04-2003, 17:40:47   #25
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Hooray, my Stat Machine is finished. Current stats follow.

Best guessers
  1. Sean (12 correct guesses).
  2. King_Ghidra (8 correct guesses).
  3. Debaser (7 correct guesses).
  4. Funkodrom (6 correct guesses).
  5. Lazarus and the Gimp (6 correct guesses).
  6. Mr. Bas (6 correct guesses).
  7. Provost Harrison (6 correct guesses).
  8. Scabrous Birdseed (6 correct guesses).
  9. protein (4 correct guesses).
  10. The Shaker (4 correct guesses).
  11. Resource Consumer (3 correct guesses).
  12. *End Is Forever* (2 correct guesses).
  13. BigGameHunter (1 correct guesses).
Most mis-guessed
  1. Scabrous Birdseed (15 times).
  2. Mr. Bas (14 times).
  3. Sean (14 times).
  4. Funkodrom (13 times).
  5. Lazarus and the Gimp (13 times).
  6. Resource Consumer (12 times).
  7. The Shaker (10 times).
  8. Debaser (8 times).
  9. King_Ghidra (8 times).
  10. protein (8 times).
  11. *End Is Forever* (4 times).
  12. Provost Harrison (3 times).
Most predictable
  1. *End Is Forever* (13 times).
  2. Scabrous Birdseed (12 times).
  3. Debaser (9 times).
  4. Provost Harrison (9 times).
  5. Sean (7 times).
  6. King_Ghidra (6 times).
  7. Mr. Bas (4 times).
  8. protein (3 times).
  9. Resource Consumer (3 times).
  10. The Shaker (3 times).
  11. Funkodrom (1 times).
  12. Lazarus and the Gimp (1 times).
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Old 12-04-2003, 18:01:08   #26
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why am i at 8 rather than 10 on most predictable?
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Old 12-04-2003, 18:06:49   #27
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Alphabetical order I assume.
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Old 12-04-2003, 18:17:05   #28
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I'm amazed you guys don't know who Tool is from a listen. Even here they are a bit below the radar and their tunes can have the tendency to sound the same after a while, but they are a very strong group...definitely worth giving a try.
All in all, I really enjoyed this section, with the exception of a couple of duds. I will definitely check out the Small Faces now, and will most likely purchase the compilation SB offers, though I don't see nearly as much dub in this song as he does. Still, if effects are the prerequisite, then maybe he's right.
Anyhow...I guessed very poorly...early assumptions about tastes and inclinations are still way off...we'll see if I can improve second time around.
Good reviews as well...though a one or two line "I don't like this" doesn't do much to establish a consortium...I'd like to know more about why something is dismissed as well...because I'm becoming very interested in what is an obvious rift between UK and US listeners when it comes to "emo/alternative" and rock, etc.
Though that last "emo" song most of you liked that I thought was crap surprised me, as that fits into my concept of wimp rock....confusing.
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Old 12-04-2003, 18:26:15   #29
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I have 3 Tool albums and I didn't get it.
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Old 12-04-2003, 18:28:44   #30
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Poor selection of music really. It can only get better. How could anyone like the "Merry Christmas" song? It was bland and sick. I could have knocked that song up in minutes if I didn't care about my musical output.

I'm interested that The Scientist engineered the reggae tune. I love The Scientist. I guess it was the really annoying "nimmynimmydimmidimdimdimdim" vocal that put me off.
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Old 12-04-2003, 18:28:55   #31
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If one of you statisticians is up for it (I'm not wired that way at all) I'd be really interested to see which songs are liked, disliked and/or elicit ambivalence.
I suppose some sort of bragging rights could be claimed by the person who's songs have been universally loved, and, conversely, a brand of shame can be placed upon the person who subjected us to the most heinous crap.
Also, it would make it easier for me to pinpoint what may be worth looking into more, as I feel I need to perhaps force myself to investigate this gulf between your scene and mine.
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Old 12-04-2003, 18:32:05   #32
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Hit-to-miss ratio

1. *End is Forever* (*) 3.25
2. Provost Harrison (*) 3
3. Debaser (*) 1.13
4. Scabrous Birdseed (*) 0.8
5. King_Ghidra 0.75
6. Sean 0.5
7. protein 0.38
8. The Shaker 0.3
9. Mr. Bas 0.29
10. Resource Consumer 0.25
11. Funkdrom 0.07
12. Lazarus and the Gimp (*) 0.07

(*) = has had two tracks

I think that gives a fairer account of predictability. If only somewhat. Now, if we could devise a mathematical formula that takes this, the total number of guesses, the total number of correct guesses and the number of submitted tracks into account...
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Old 12-04-2003, 18:39:17   #33
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Seems simple enough, but that will only be usable at the end. The predictability rating should perhaps be an average rather than an absolute, though.

BGH: unless we’re marking out of ten, that’s not particularly easy. Besides, you want quality, not quantity.
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Old 12-04-2003, 18:45:37   #34
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Hmmm...I think people were fairly clear on whether they liked it or not.
I've definitely been on the opposite side of some trends here, but have managed to stay in lockstep with a couple of dissenters who I think share my ear for quality...and, admittedly, some of this may well be a factor of age, though I don't know how or why.
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Old 12-04-2003, 18:47:35   #35
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What I meant was, quantifying how much they liked it is hard.

It’s like the Amazon ‘people who liked this’ thing.
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Old 12-04-2003, 18:50:41   #36
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Ah, true...a simple thumbs up or down suffices for me, usually. Though much of what I like isn't always generally beloved and vice versa.
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Old 12-04-2003, 19:11:54   #37
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Right. Here's what I've got so far (not the taste problem, the predictability factor problem).

Imagine an ideal situation where everyone guesses everything correctly. In this case, each person will have been guessed 11*n times, where n is the number of tracks they've submitted that have appeared so far. Also, each person will have been guessed correctly 11*n times. Suppose we contrast each actual number to the ideal number.

Now, such a setup shows that Sean is by a good distance the most overguessed, with 21 guesses compared to the correct 11. Most underguessed is (perhaps surprisingly) Provost Harrison, only guessed 12 times out of 22 supposeds. Even more surprisingly, Laz and the Gimp is second. Of those who've only submitted one track, protein is the lowest; Of those who've submitted two tracks I am the highest. Unfortunately here the difference between those who submitted one track and those who submitted two tracks seems unbalanced.

Not so if we just take the correct guesses into account, where the twos and the ones are more or less statistically equal. Most correctly guessed compared to number of entries is Sean, with 7 out of the perfect 11, followed by Scabrous Birdseed and King_Ghidra. Lazarus and the Gimp is the one whose tracks most people have missed.

Now, if we could create a system whereby the former set of numbers tends towards statistical equivalence independent of the number of tracks submitted (ideas?) we could then create a weighting system of some kind to see how much the latter statistic is actually "worth". What do people think, should being guessed very little make you "more predictable" or "less predictable"?
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Old 12-04-2003, 20:47:45   #38
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I am glad to see I threw people off the track and caused immense irritation at the same time Not really any slammings at all in there except for the dodgy instrumental track which just filled me with nothing really. A good bunch of songs though there.

Now this next section could get very interesting
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Old 12-04-2003, 21:02:41   #39
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Another point, who has posted the links on the main page...I must bawl and shout at you that the word is spelt prejudice not predjudice
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Old 13-04-2003, 09:55:48   #40
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SB: aren’t we counting BGH’s guesses?
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Old 13-04-2003, 10:12:44   #41
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Oh yes we are. Bollocks.

I think we need an economist to make up a totally bollocks "seems to work" formula for us. I mean, that's what they do for a living, surely?
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Old 13-04-2003, 10:20:53   #42
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It's what Stew seems to do with his time judging by his rationalisation of the world
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Old 13-04-2003, 10:22:00   #43
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Well, I have the stats - BGH now. At the moment I have incorrect guesses = (tracks * 11) - correct + incorrect, where incorrect is the mis-guessed figure. This seems to negate the advantage in having submitted less tracks, becuase you get ‘points’ when people guess someone else for your tracks, and you for someone else’s tracks.
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Old 13-04-2003, 11:05:00   #44
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Any more of this shit and we'll have to move the thread to the Tech forum
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Old 13-04-2003, 15:57:36   #45
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Okay, how about this, which I think solves the BGH problem:

Instead of looking for the IDEAL round, let us consider the AVERAGE round, and compare how well each person does compared to the average person in the two "disciplines".

The average amount of correct guesses per track is ~4.18. This means that the amount of correct guesses the averagely predictable person should have accumulated is (~4.18 * no of tracks). If you subtract this from the actual number, you get a positive or negative measure of how much better or worse than average a person is. For instance, being rather predictable, I've got a value of 3.65 over the value I should have had, were I average.

For misguesses, the same can be done but with the average being over people, not tracks- how many times should each person be misguessed to be an averagely misguessed person? ~10.17. Again, we can do the subtraction thing and get a value. One problem: A small discrepancy will occur to the advantage of those who've submitted many tracks, because they'll have an ever-so-slightly smaller chance of having been misguessed- in this first round's case 1/16 less likely. I've chosen not to factor this in since it constantly grows smaller and is basically insignificant.

When the latter is subtracted from the former it seems that, unfortunately, it has too much of a bearing on the overall score. Any ideas how to even the two factors out?
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Old 13-04-2003, 16:15:44   #46
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What's the point?
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Old 13-04-2003, 16:16:27   #47
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huh?
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Old 13-04-2003, 16:53:52   #48
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Point?
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Old 13-04-2003, 17:25:54   #49
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Right, if you add an arbitrary number (should be 2 standard eviations, really, but I don't know how to calculate those any more) and multiply by the hit-to-miss ratio you get a pretty decent chart, I reckon. Admittedly with only one changed value from the hit-to-miss chart. Er.
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Old 13-04-2003, 17:28:32   #50
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Or how about just adding it? A bit strange too, with protein as more predictable than me.
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