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Old 01-04-2003, 23:15:28   #101
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Well I wasn't directly invited back the FFZ I don't think. I think I just did my periodic check and actually saw traffic there, and did my usual posting. FFZ seems to be more active than CG on the times I most want to post. Then again, it is partially because of the differences between times in North American and Europe.
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:17:33   #102
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Darkstar,

To be fair, I think there is an assymmetry of the sort of "with us or against us rhetoric".

As I understand it, FFZ cleared out all the old logins, restarted and then became an invitation only site. As it is "for americans and friends of americans" then I assume that I, not having received an invite (and, incidentally, being a pro-war individual in an ally country) am deemed to be "not a friend of Americans".

It is the hijacking of the stars and stripes that seems to me to be a little off and perverse here.
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:18:18   #103
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fucked up double post...
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:19:59   #104
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Funny though.
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:20:41   #105
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ambulance chaser...
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:22:01   #106
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FFZ just deleted the old logins that weren't used for quite awhile. Granted labeling the forum how it is would draw away some people, it's not an invite only place.
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:22:29   #107
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ambulance chaser...
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:23:43   #108
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Originally posted by Darkstar
CG is not currently 'American' friendly. It is now, however, ranging from almost neutral to occassionally bashing.
Only because most of the part that strongly agreed with US actions in Iraq got up and left. They're welcome back, in my view...

And that's the difference. We haven't posted a sign on our front door saying "Stay out, Yankee scum".
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:24:26   #109
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And we haven't even been tempted to...
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:26:05   #110
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You misunderstand RC.

MBloom got rid of all the accounts with 0 posts or no activity for a very long time (a year or more, IIRC). That happened before the current 'newbies' came over to FFZ. As you might recall, FFZ had a lot of accounts never used and many seldom used from the Kitty wants to piss on MtG days.

As far as I know, the site is still an open registration site, other then the fact that it is once again limited to one account per email address.

The 'by Americans for Americans and their friends' bit is a direct piece of flash to tell 'Roland and Maroule (and their type) to keep their dirty posts over in the euro-trash land'.

You'd certainly be welcome. But I'm not currently going to invite you. Sorry. I've found the site to be a bit to reminensent of White/Black/Red/Purple Power type forums, so I am not entirely comfortable with the site at this time. Although it has been toning down from it's initial hate levels. And unlike SidGames, I find that there is a lot of spill over currently, so again... I figure I'll do like Bloomy. Wait and see how much things chill out.
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:27:34   #111
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Originally posted by Koshko
FFZ just deleted the old logins that weren't used for quite awhile. Granted labeling the forum how it is would draw away some people, it's not an invite only place.
Koshko,

In fairness, it may be a good screening device. Let them do what they like, it's up to them.

But it does seem to me to be building a bunker - for us (good guys, here) and against us (you lot, arabs, and people who we disagree with politically and are not prepared to engage with, there and elsewhere). Speaking from a country that has committed troops to this particular action (with my support), I find the attitude on that forum naive, childish and insulting.

Moreover, I find the whole episode a disturbing microcosm of trends in the world at large
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:29:58   #112
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Well, in that case, RC, what do you take it that many of us American posters have stayed? Admitted, Venom doesn't post like he used to, and the others that stayed tend to be the more quiet types... other then me.
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:32:16   #113
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Hey I got the excuse of having a couple of fresh forums to visit and post at. Been at once place for like 4 months and another for even less.
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:33:42   #114
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Personally I think its a mistake to catagorise anyone by their nationality.

The sad thing for me is that many of us have posted/lurked on various sites for years and yet we seem unable to bridge the gap between the two extremes of the posting population.

Sadly, the silent majority probably falls somewhere in the middle on all of the issues that lead to the exodus.
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:34:18   #115
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Talking of which, does anyone know why I have been IP banned at FFZ???
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:35:24   #116
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And KH, there's plenty of us still here that support most of our countries actions. Although I'd personally like to see this intelligence that has convinced the top officials in my government to invade Iraq. I like to have a very good understanding why my fellow citizens are being asked to spill their blood. But since WW2, there have been very few clear understandings of why our service men and women had to risk their lives. I know that as a citizen, I'm not suppose to understand the particulars of why my cousins are trying to kill the other guys without getting killed himself, but there is generally a clear followable excuse given. We seem to have rushed this matter so much over here, that thick heads like myself didn't completely get that understanding... I have an idea, but I'd rather they said it clearly, you understand. Especially if my family is at risk. Simple, idiot voter, understand? That's me.
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:38:29   #117
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Taz, the only people with IP bans are Hello Kitty, Logical Realist, Black Widow, and That Other Girl (cannot remember her handle at the moment. Not DM). So which one of the 4 are you? Well? You just busted yourself...
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:38:38   #118
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Darkstar,

I hope that reasonable counsel such as yours prevails over there, sincerely.

I would, though, point out that this site has in the past been characterised as a "Brit" site due to the large number of UK posters.

Many of those posters hold genuine views and concerns contrary to mine about this war. As, no doubt, do our more vociferous continental posters.

To depict us all ("Euroweenies") as Saddam toadying lapdogs is as offensive to me as it no doubt is to those in the US who may wish to genuinely question the direction in which events are going or the wisdom of decisions taken.

To target the site on such a stream of narrow opinion really runs the danger of turning into something that is like a watered down version of creator.org or something like that (exaggeration, I know).

Either this was a plan by its creators or they had not thought the issue of balance through very clearly. Either way, I find the attitude as it stands at present to be disturbing.

Last edited by Resource Consumer; 01-04-2003 at 23:41:27.
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:39:59   #119
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Originally posted by Darkstar
Taz, the only people with IP bans are Hello Kitty, Logical Realist, Black Widow, and That Other Girl (cannot remember her handle at the moment. Not DM). So which one of the 4 are you? Well? You just busted yourself...
None of them. I just went to have a look and got amessage to say my IP address had been blocked. Its a fixed IP and was fine earlier this week. Ergo someone has IP blocked me...
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:40:39   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by TAZ
Talking of which, does anyone know why I have been IP banned at FFZ???
You have a European IP address, nach.
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:50:14   #121
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Taz... Ok. If you say so.

Seriously, I can look into it. Unless I've had my privs revoked. At present, I wouldn't be surprised. Previously, FFZ had been a very hands off place, but it's current character is in flux. PM me your IP and I'll check on it when I get home (which will be in an hour or so.) However, there was a problem where certain profiles got *corrupted*, and yours just may be one of those. Or one of the many newer mods may have banned you. Pissed off any FFZ mod lately? Trolled CFC?

RC, I'm afraid you got caught up in the general fray. From what I remember, the general feeling is, if you support the matter, there will be nothing for you to be offended at. If you don't, best to let you know you aren't welcome from the start. But its not something that has been formally thought through and deeply considered.

As far as reasonable... OW posted some reasonable thoughts. From what I noticed, they got ignored. Sometimes, you just got to let people work it out for themselves.
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Old 01-04-2003, 23:58:16   #122
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Darkstar,

Exactly. As I say, you and I won't fall out too much over this (more like you should get a computer that runs games without crashing).

I just do not consider FFZ at present to be a place that welcomes reasonable people from either side of the atlantic. At worst, it caracactures Americans in such a way to reinforce those stereotypes that caused offence to them in the first place and not to be the reasonable and tolerant people that they (largely) appear here. In the long run, this is not a good indicator....
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Old 02-04-2003, 00:05:37   #123
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkstar
And KH, there's plenty of us still here that support most of our countries actions.
"Strongly agrees"

The only two that I can think of who are vocally, strongly pro-war and who have chosen to keep posting are GP and Venom. And I, for one am happy to have them here.

But my point is that you can't expect the tone of the site to be pro-war or pro-US when most of the people who voice these viewpoints get frustrated with people disagreeing with them, and corral themselves at FFZ.

But the thing is that different viewpoints are still welcome. We don't tell people to leave. BGH just recently posted a long, semi-prowar thread. People argued with him, but the community didn't make him feel unwelcome (I hope).
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Old 02-04-2003, 00:10:58   #124
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He, and indeed the others, and indeed the other side, are all welcome here in my limited opinion. If we want to disappear into our respective corners then I regard that as a most destructive outcome.

It shows an unwillingness to engage when the costs of engagement are lower than ever.

That is fundamentally very scary, people.
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Old 02-04-2003, 00:53:13   #125
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I don't really want to stick my nose in but to say that I'm an American in America who loves what America stands for... I opposed the starting of this war but now that it has begun, I can't see a way out except through it to the finish. I absolutely despise the current administration in America, and I'm sickened at the changes in my country in the past three years.

I have always loved England and Continental Europe and have many friends there. This site reminds me of the atmosphere of the various pubs I'm familiar with (the Cutty Sark, the Admiral Halsey, various Greenwich dives).

If I were forced to "choose forever" between America or the rest of the world, I'd have a very hard time of it.
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Old 02-04-2003, 00:58:19   #126
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What about Scotland, Ireland, Iceland, Wales, Malta, etc.? They not good enough for you?
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:01:03   #127
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Hey! Sultan. I used to hang out in the Cutty Sark in Greenwich although that was a lot of years ago.

Nobody (well, certainly not me) will bite your head off for that opinion, I am sure. I think, as far as I understand, that the tone here has always been that informal pub tone. Unfortunately, that tone hurt some and they chose to fly - a shame, but you can never second guess how people will react.

The point is that the likes of you and I should not have to choose for ever - but there are those elsewhere that would wish to push some form of loyalty test to shore up there own narrow view on the world. Shame on them.
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:01:42   #128
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What about Scotland, Ireland, Iceland, Wales, Malta, etc.? They not good enough for you?
not good enough for me
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:04:39   #129
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But Latvia is.
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:11:37   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darkstar
One was Chris becoming greatly offended at a jib from Maroule.
One thing we all learned from that incident, was never look a gift-sail in the boom.

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Old 02-04-2003, 01:22:40   #131
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Or a lady-man in the arse.
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:23:14   #132
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I still post because I don't give a fuck if any of you don't like me. Chris felt like maroule was taunting the fact that he lost friends on 9/11. That was extremely difficult for Chris to take. So he left. It happens. I'm sure people here aren't too broken up by that. Now personally I think maroule's a piece of shit, but I've got lots of reasons for that, and I'm sure more than 1 or 2 or 10 people think the same of me. I ain't gonna cry over it.
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:23:49   #133
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Oh and I'd post more, but the topics lately here have ranged from poor to festering piles of shit.
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:24:16   #134
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We hate you too, asswad.
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:26:04   #135
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:55:23   #136
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As it should be.
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Old 02-04-2003, 03:49:48   #137
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Old 02-04-2003, 04:08:19   #138
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Morse code now?
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Old 02-04-2003, 04:13:50   #139
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Is that the first letter of "shit", or the the first letter of "opulent bastard"? My knowledge of morse is a bit rusty.
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Old 02-04-2003, 04:19:16   #140
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Shit.

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Old 02-04-2003, 04:54:04   #141
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The interesting part is that the exodus of some posters did not change the character of this site too much for me. In fact it seems some new posters have arrived and the site has shifted in a positive direction (for me). It's still struggeling for balance, but I'm rather optimistic. I think the reason for the "evolution" here is not because of the people the people that left, but because of some of us (including me) learned how fragile our community is.

Though I miss some of the positions of the people now on FFZ. But no reason for me to go there. It's a swamp, more a street gang than a pub. There is no balance at all, and I'm a little sad of the history of the FFZ.
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Old 02-04-2003, 05:28:25   #142
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It would be more accurate to say 'sports bar'. It has an American bar feel to it, now. It is cooling down, though there have been a few incidents recently.

Chris gave Tassadar an online beat-down, so I wouldn't stir the pot right now.
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Old 02-04-2003, 05:39:30   #143
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Make that 'sports bar in the deep south before segregation and fire ants have magically appeared in everyone's underpants' and you get closer to the feel. I genuinely like a lot of the people who post there, but wading through thread after thread of "the liberals this" and "France that" and "another reason to hate..." is awfully tough for a man of my fragile constitution...
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Old 02-04-2003, 05:41:22   #144
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Don't get much souther.............
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Old 02-04-2003, 05:59:06   #145
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I see. The German equivalent of a street gang are in fact football hooligans.
And there's a bar around the corner, "Hardmanns Eck". I believe that's very similar.

BTW my favourite bar was "Happy Altona", a dark smelly hole where they had some chairs and tables on the sidewalk (a VERY small sidewalk). There were also some coins attached to the ground, some kind of a joke I think. I accidently went there (I was thirsty and they had beer) but I was shocked. A terrible place, you had to get drunk there. Fast.
It's gone now.
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Old 02-04-2003, 07:37:19   #146
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Oh and I'd post more, but the topics lately here have ranged from poor to festering piles of shit.
And that differs from every single thread since the beginning how?
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Old 02-04-2003, 07:37:56   #147
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So I reckon TAZ is Tassadar??
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Old 02-04-2003, 07:45:01   #148
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I still post because I don't give a fuck if any of you don't like me.
You tell them, rockstar.

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Old 02-04-2003, 07:45:56   #149
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Only if Taz lives in Utah.
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Old 02-04-2003, 07:49:25   #150
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It's down to a simple matter of tolerance, really.
Are you ready to tolerate somebody has a different opinion than you? Can you take what you dish out? IMO people who remained on CG can answer yes to both.

Chris is an intolerant drama queen who invented out of thin air a personal attack I never made. He then worked himself up to levels of pure hatred. As such, FFZ is his own little personal therapy (although this site will also be balanced by what other posters add to it, fortunately).

As I said before, I'm glad for dimwits like Venom to still be here. In your own words: suck me. And stop chickening out of a CM game.
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