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Old 19-01-2004, 15:55:34   #1
Mr. Bas
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2001 - a space odyssey

Finally watched the movie yesterday. I quite like most of Kubrick's movies, but I'm not so sure about this one.... To be honest, I don't have a clue what the hell was going on, especially during the last half hour. Is it supposed to make some sense or is it just some acid-inspired nonsense? Enlighten me.
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Old 19-01-2004, 15:56:44   #2
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And let me be the first to say:

Film forum!
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Old 19-01-2004, 15:59:20   #3
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No, it doesn't make sense. If you read the book it makes a little bit more sense but not much.
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Old 19-01-2004, 16:03:26   #4
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Anyone remember that Lego version I posted a link to ages ago? That was much better than the actual film.

Someone did explain the whole purpose of the film me once, but I can't remember what they said. I remember it made sense though.
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Old 19-01-2004, 16:38:03   #5
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that lego version was funny, but bollocks was it better than the real thing.

i don't understand why people find it necessary to understand every detail of the end. You know the black slab symbolises some kind of evolutionary progress or milestone. I always saw it that the crazy shit was just that, kubrick's attempt to articulate the next stage in human evolution, whatever that might be, and from the looks of it it's supposed to be some kind of super intelligence/consciousness that we can't really conceive of in our mental paradigm.
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Old 19-01-2004, 16:40:07   #6
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All I managed to work out was that the guy at the end was God.

Visually stunning though.
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Old 19-01-2004, 16:41:24   #7
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the guy at the end is god?!! where the fuck does it say that?!
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Old 19-01-2004, 16:45:46   #8
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I thought it was that the guy at the end is "some kind of super intelligence/consciousness that we can't really conceive of in our mental paradigm" which basically makes him indistinguishable from a god to us puny humans.
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Old 19-01-2004, 16:52:41   #9
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Surely there's no place for god in a sci fi flick like that? You would have thought that humans would have moved on from stupid ancient superstitions.
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Old 19-01-2004, 16:54:22   #10
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Yup. All you need to know about 2001 is that it's on the Vatican's "approved films" list... Very stupid, very simplistic, very boring.
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Old 19-01-2004, 16:54:42   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
the guy at the end is god?!! where the ---- does it say that?!
I said it was all I managed to work out from it, not that it was correct in anyway.

It's not offered as an explanation.
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Old 19-01-2004, 17:03:32   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Yup. All you need to know about 2001 is that it's on the Vatican's "approved films" list... Very stupid, very simplistic, very boring.
on that basis, we can add this post to the vatican's approved list too
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Old 19-01-2004, 17:03:58   #13
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The guy at the end is definately not god. It's written by Arthur C. Clarke.....
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Old 19-01-2004, 17:05:12   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gramercy Riffs
I said it was all I managed to work out from it, not that it was correct in anyway.

It's not offered as an explanation.
Well fair enough. I can't say either way what it really is intended to be, but i tend to go on the protein line of 'this is sci fi, there is no god'
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Old 19-01-2004, 17:07:13   #15
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No god(s) in Sci fi? We must have read different books.
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Old 19-01-2004, 17:08:52   #16
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I figured that the guy at the end is supposed to represent, not God exactly, but some kind of 'Spirit of Life', and that scene represents (in a crazy 60's psycadelic way) Bowman leaving his physical body and life, and becoming 'at one with the universe'. (In a later book in the series he comes back to help people on earth).

Quote:
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
that lego version was funny, but bollocks was it better than the real thing.
I wasn't actually serious about that.
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Old 19-01-2004, 17:08:54   #17
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Definitely.
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Old 19-01-2004, 17:17:20   #18
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I think it's clear that the astronaut has somehow entered the next stage in human development in the end, triggered by that black monolith... What happens before that seems just like psychedelic nonsense to me, like described in phil's first post here.
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Old 19-01-2004, 17:25:56   #19
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Well, having read 2030 (I think.....the final one anyway), Mr. Clarke does in effect say that the monolith was put there by God. After saying that advanced civilisations do turn into somekind of matter moving round space/time, he says there is still some kind of being that rules them all...God.
I was absolutely gutted after I finished that book, but at least there can be no ambiguity about what that old fart is saying now.
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Old 19-01-2004, 17:33:09   #20
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3001 is the final one, and there is also 2061 before that.

Arthur C Clarke has also catogorically stated that none of his works feature what we would define as 'God', ie: one supreme being controling everything.

Sorry to piss on your fire.
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Old 19-01-2004, 19:35:15   #21
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Erm, I suggest you read 3001 then (easy to get your numbers muddled up with this series)

You'll find that he lied.
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Old 19-01-2004, 20:44:07   #22
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The Epilogue only contains references to ‘We’. I honestly can’t remember any mention of a single God in the text.
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Old 19-01-2004, 20:52:43   #23
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Baaaaaasically, after he gets tramsmitted through the star gate, the really cool dudes at the other end try to reconstruct an analogue environment from the totality of his experience that will allow them to communicate with him.

Or something.
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Old 19-01-2004, 21:20:42   #24
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I can't believe people like this movie. And in the other thread someone was dissing Solaris, which totally stomps over 2001 in every way.

COMPARISON CHART

Atmosphere:
Solaris - Tense
2001 - Accute Boredom

Time spent on images of space flight:
Solaris - 7 seconds
2001 - At least an hour by my reckoning

Special Effects:
Solaris - Few. One model set I believe. Different tints.
2001 - Lots and Lots and Lots. Back/Front projection, moving cameras, tons of empty whizz-bang.

Philosophical questions raised:
Solaris - What is a human being? Can a simulacrum for happiness be true happiness? What are the limits of empiricism? Are our collective perception of someone equal to their essence?
2001 - Is there a god?

Answers:
Solaris - Uncertain
2001 - Yes (as revealed in the first 20 minutes)

Pyschologically complex characters:
Solaris - At least two
2001 - None

20-minute trip sequences of astounding crapness:
Solaris - None
2001 - One

20-minutes atmospheric rides through Tokyo that actually serve a function in the film:
Solaris - One
2001 - None

Music:
Solaris - Abstract
2001 - Now! Classical Hits

There is really no contest.
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Old 19-01-2004, 21:26:51   #25
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Time spent on waiting. The interminable waiting. The sweat on the actors from the studio lights. The waiting. The waiting for something to happen:
Solaris - 2 days.
2001 - 1 day 23 hours.
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Old 19-01-2004, 21:33:25   #26
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But Solaris it's waiting while their faces look strained, struggling with the horror that they have experienced that they nevertheless are existentially ambivalent to, whereas with 2001 it's waiting while a waitress serves drinks to the entirity of Am Der Schönen Blaunen Donau.
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Old 19-01-2004, 21:34:19   #27
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You just repeated yourself, surely?
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Old 19-01-2004, 21:38:08   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nills Lagerbaak
Erm, I suggest you read 3001 then (easy to get your numbers muddled up with this series)

You'll find that he lied.
Similar to how a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, but is still not magic; a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from arbitrary acts of Godhood, but is still not arbitrary acts of Godhood.

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Old 20-01-2004, 09:47:07   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed

Philosophical questions raised:
2001 - Is there a god?
Absolute nonsense. Please provide some evidence for this ridiculous claim.

Quote:
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed

Music:
Solaris - Abstract
2001 - Now! Classical Hits
You're dismissing Kubrick's entire output now. All of his great films use well-known classical scores.

Quote:
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed

There is really no contest.
True. You are the undisputed uber-troll.
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Old 20-01-2004, 10:52:17   #30
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I've racked my mind and I can't think of any other Kurick score that uses well-known classical pieces except Clockwork Orange. That film, however uses them ironically. 2001 uses the pieces sincerely, it's as if "Surfin Bird" in Full Metal Jacket had been used to illustrate blissful surfing in a beautiful lagoon or something.
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Old 20-01-2004, 10:54:15   #31
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BTW, you're right, the question isn't even raised. It's more of a statement- "There is a God".
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Old 20-01-2004, 11:16:33   #32
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hmm?? what about barry lyndon?

i still don't get the god thing. Where are you people getting this god idea from? (and don't say the books).
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i check my hair at the elevator mirror and the highlight of my day when I say hi to a girl who's opposite of the elevator door at my floor. the one i went out with.
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Old 20-01-2004, 11:26:01   #33
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I think people are confusing a higher plain of existance that's beyond our comprehension (or whatever) with one absolute god.
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Old 20-01-2004, 11:31:27   #34
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I do too.
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Old 20-01-2004, 11:51:19   #35
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Confuse a higher plane of existence with a monotheistic god? Easy mistake to make. "God", "The Gods", "Spirit of Nature", whatever, it's all incongruous subphilosophical bollocks with basically the same escapist purpose. Why not base your belief in something higher on ourselves and the spirit of friendship and understanding instead? Or the spirit of Rock 'n' Roll?

(Re: Score- I emphasised "well-known" for a reason. Barry Lyndon uses a score appropriate for the setting consisting mostly of lesser-known pieces of classical music that you haven't heard a million times before.)
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Old 20-01-2004, 11:52:55   #36
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"There is only one truth, and one God."

Yes, me.
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Old 20-01-2004, 12:21:13   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
(Re: Score- I emphasised "well-known" for a reason. Barry Lyndon uses a score appropriate for the setting consisting mostly of lesser-known pieces of classical music that you haven't heard a million times before.)
But isn't the mere presence of a score in a film enough to transport it from the realm of 'lesser known pieces of classical music' to 'Now! Classical Hits'?

I'm sure the majority of people know the tune the blue danube from 2001 more than they do as part of the work of Strauss.

Does using Iggy Pop or Lou Reed in Trainspotting make it less effective than an original score? Nonsense. The only thing that matters is that the scenes in which the music is used are effective in their own right as a combination of sound and image.

The particular scene featuring the blue danube is incredibly iconic, as anyone who ever played Elite will testify
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i check my hair at the elevator mirror and the highlight of my day when I say hi to a girl who's opposite of the elevator door at my floor. the one i went out with.
after that, it's the same old fucking thing all over again.
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Old 20-01-2004, 12:29:00   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
But isn't the mere presence of a score in a film enough to transport it from the realm of 'lesser known pieces of classical music' to 'Now! Classical Hits'?
There's a distinct difference between using loads of classical pieces for flavour (which loads of films do, take The Truman Show for instance) which means you'll probably remember them briefly afterwards, and building sequences entirely around complete pieces of already well-known music which means you sit through the film saying "oh, that's the blue danube waltz. Oh wait, they're not gonna play the whole thing are they? Fuck!"

Anyway, using a track that's a hit is way different from trying to push mildly obscure music into becoming a hit using a film. Or something.

I've not seen trainspotting so I can't comment on the use of Iggy and Lou in that film.
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Old 20-01-2004, 12:29:20   #39
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You know that music was picked because Kubrick was listening to it whilst editing and a student came in and said something like "wow, great choice of music for this scene" and so it came to pass...
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Old 24-01-2004, 19:03:15   #40
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I think some of the 2001 criticism is a bit harsh. When it came out it was the most amazing SFX movie ever. I wouldn't call it a great film but it was entertaining and certainly better than the book. The whole series of books starting with 2001 really sucked.
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Old 24-01-2004, 19:21:25   #41
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I remember Rama as a better series. Not outstanding, just better than 2001.
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Old 26-01-2004, 15:36:13   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Debaser
I think people are confusing a higher plain of existance that's beyond our comprehension (or whatever) with one absolute god.

Ok, what I meant was I thought C Clarke copped out of writing a satisfactory ending. Maybe he doesn't use the word "God", but he more or less ends the series of books by saying, oh and by the way there was this great being before all of this happened, but we know nothing about him.
Agreed there really isn't much practical difference betwixt a god and something we don't really understand, but this is Sci-Fi and I want an explanation for things, no matter how far fetched. I guess he got fed up of the series at the end.
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Old 26-01-2004, 20:57:19   #43
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Definitely. And he made 3001 suck ass to keep people from demanding another sequel.

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Old 26-01-2004, 23:08:24   #44
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You know, I'd say I think Douglas Adams did that with Hitchhiker, but it'd probably make zmama cry again, so I won't.

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Old 26-01-2004, 23:24:59   #45
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When it came out it was the most amazing SFX movie ever.
Yup. the problem is it's not 1969 any more and nothing ages faster than SFX...
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Old 27-01-2004, 21:43:20   #46
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Not 1969. Damn. Should I loose my afro, peace chain and bell bottoms? Or are they coming back?

But I don't disagree SB. Some of Kubrick's other work stands up better.
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Old 27-01-2004, 21:48:21   #47
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SFX's do age fast but alot of the older produced stuff looks much better than most CGI's.
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Old 06-02-2004, 04:30:15   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Funkodrom
You know that music was picked because Kubrick was listening to it whilst editing and a student came in and said something like "wow, great choice of music for this scene" and so it came to pass...
That is basically it, Kubrick didn't like the score, but he did like the music put in to indicate what kind of music should match certain scenes, and left it that way.

The movie is boring as hell, to bad HAL didn't kill them all sooner.
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Old 06-02-2004, 22:21:01   #49
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Very few SFX movies have great acting. Hard to really get into it for an actor when you are staring at a blank screen.

A few are well acted though. I thought the three main actors in Sphere did a great job. As did many of the actors in Blade Runner.
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Old 08-02-2004, 21:02:02   #50
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I just read an interesting article/review of 2001. Somewhere in there (or in the comments) it was mentioned that the different stages of the movie showed how as humanity advanced, people became more individualistic and distant from each other. The starchild in the end was supposed to be the next stage in human evolution, when individual humans would be separated by interstellar distances. Anyway, I thought that was neat.

http://www.bureau42.com/view/1788

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