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Old 22-06-2015, 13:16:15   #1
paiktis
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Negotiations

Negotiations should be approached with a sense of mutual respect, a future-perceptive spirit of compromise and mutual give way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZSou-he-VI
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Old 22-06-2015, 13:51:05   #2
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And the option for a heart-felt fuck-off.
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Old 22-06-2015, 16:55:05   #3
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New Greek National Anthem?
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Old 22-06-2015, 19:17:14   #4
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No, it has to be something gay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9dIWOYmtcQ
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Old 22-06-2015, 19:39:27   #5
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That was beautiful. I noticed Loreena McKennitt's name so I looked up the song; she is a favorite of mine:

Quote:
Haris Alexiou sings To Tango Tis Nefelis, which translates in English as “Nefeli’s Tango”, a romantic mythological and lyrical interpretation of Loreena McKennitt’s instrumental song known as Tango To Evora.

How soothing this melody is! How probing is the perfectly suited voice of Alexiou when she, like the waves coming and going of the shores, sings about the nymph of clouds, Nefeli, and ”two little angels who were dreaming of Nefeli and wanted to feed her pomegranate and honey, so that she could not remember, so that she would forget what she wanted.”

From the very first pounding sounds of “Nefeli’s Tango”, you to sing along, to dance, to be in the arms of your beloved one, to close your eyes and let yourself be taken on the mythological journey when love, fantasies, seduction, and innocence are weaved so playfully. And when you know that at the end, despite of everything and because of everything, “the benevolent Zeus” saves Nefeli, “turns her into a cloud and disperses her so that they could not find her”.

Canadian musician, songwriter, and producer Loreena McKennitt, known for her instrumentals and her very refined soprano voice, published this tango on her 1991’s album “Visit”. It didn’t take long before Alexiou, moved by the passionate melody, found her own inspiration in it and painted it with the Greek touch.
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Old 23-06-2015, 01:19:39   #6
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Let them eat cake.
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Old 23-06-2015, 08:59:36   #7
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Oh the irony
(She was beheaded. PH'd)
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Old 23-06-2015, 09:29:03   #8
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Oh these songs are called entechno which means artful.

They are gay and mushy but divine when you miss the better half
If you're in the mood for some pussy crying as it is affectionately called they'll do the job but everyday stress kind of puts them out of your cognitive spectrum. You have to be in the mood to enjoy them. (I am )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LrGmEhEUMA

http://lyricstranslate.com/en/Kemal-Kemal.html

Last edited by paiktis; 23-06-2015 at 09:32:12.
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Old 23-06-2015, 10:39:18   #9
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I think you might like this one, Loreena McKennitt's adaptation of Alfred Noyes' tragic poem The Highwayman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixi4jz0Gn4E
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Old 23-06-2015, 13:28:51   #10
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sad but strong :b:

nice songs. travelling ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9iiK7q2RC4

Ill make my communion with seawater,
Distilled from your body drop by drop,
in an ancient copper cup from Algiers,
As done by pirates of old before the fight.

Where are you coming from? From Babylon,
Where are you going? To the eye of the cyclone.
Whom do you love? A Gypsy maid,
What is her name? Fata Morgana

A leather sail, all smeared with wax,
Of cedar-wood reeking, of incense and varnish,
Like the smell of the hold in an aging ship
Built at that time on Euphrates in Phoenicia.

Where are you coming from? From Babylon,
Where are you going? To the eye of the cyclone.
Whom do you love? A Gypsy maid,
What is her name? Fata Morgana.

Fire-hued rust in the mines of Sina,
The capes of Gerakini and Stratoni
That coating, that old blessed rust gave us birth,
It feeds us, feeds on us, and then it kill us.

Where are you coming from? From Babylon,
Where are you going? To the eye of the cyclone.
Whom do you love? A Gypsy maid,
What is her name? Fata Morgana.
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Old 24-06-2015, 16:08:06   #11
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Very nice.

Another tragic song, about an actual event this time:

The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, by Canadian Folksinger Gordon Lightfoot.

Quote:
A tribute to the 29 men who died November 10, 1975, aboard the Edmund Fitzgerald in Lake Superior.

----
Announcer (0:04): An air and sea search is continuing for possible survivors of the Edmund Fitzgerald, a 729 foot ore carrier, which apparently broke apart and sunk last night on Lake Superior. The ship and its 29-man crew vanished in a storm with 80 mile-an-hour winds and wave heights up to 25 feet. All that has been found is an oil slick and some debris.
--
song begins at 0:17
--
Radio Transmission (3:11): "We last had contact with 'em, the mate had talked to him ... at about 10 minutes after 7, 19:10, and he said he was going along fine and no problem."
--
Radio Transmission (3:21): "But it looks from the information that we have that it's, uh, fairly certain that the, uh, Fitzgerald went down."
--
Radio Transmission (4:04): "Uh, no, I didn't have him, uh, visually, I had him on radar; he was, uh, exactly 10 miles ahead of us. I asked him how he was making out with his problems and he said he was holding his own, but I, uh, lost contact after that."

----

Lyrics:

The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
of the big lake they called "Gitche Gumee"
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
when the skies of November turn gloomy
With a load of iron ore twenty-six thousand tons more
than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty,
that big ship and true was a bone to be chewed
when the Gales of November came early

The ship was the pride of the American side
coming back from some mill in Wisconsin
As the big freighters go, it was bigger than most
with a crew and good captain well seasoned,
concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms
when they left fully loaded for Cleveland
And later that night when the ship's bell rang,
could it be the north wind they'd been feelin'?

The wind in the wires made a tattle-tale sound
and a wave broke over the railing
And ev'ry man knew, as the captain did too
'twas the witch of November come stealin'
The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait
when the Gales of November came slashin'
When afternoon came it was freezin' rain
in the face of a hurricane west wind

When suppertime came the old cook came on deck sayin'
"Fellas, it's too rough t'feed ya"
At seven P.M. a main hatchway caved in; he said,
"Fellas, it's bin good t'know ya!"
The captain wired in he had water comin' in
and the good ship and crew was in peril
And later that night when 'is lights went outta sight
came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

Does any one know where the love of God goes
when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay
if they'd put fifteen more miles behind 'er
They might have split up or they might have capsized;
they may have broke deep and took water
And all that remains is the faces and the names
of the wives and the sons and the daughters

Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings
in the rooms of her ice-water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams;
the islands and bays are for sportsmen
And farther below Lake Ontario
takes in what Lake Erie can send her,
And the iron boats go as the mariners all know
with the Gales of November remembered

In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed,
in the Maritime Sailors' Cathedral
The church bell chimed 'til it rang twenty-nine times
for each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
of the big lake they call "Gitche Gumee"
"Superior," they said, "never gives up her dead
when the gales of November come early"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgI8bta-7aw
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Old 24-06-2015, 17:51:28   #12
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One of my favorite songs
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The cats nestle close to their kittens now.
The lambs have laid down with the sheep.
You're cozy and warm in your bed, my dear
Please go the fuck to sleep.
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Old 24-06-2015, 21:06:07   #13
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Having worked on The Lakes I can testify his song is hauntingly authentic.
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Old 24-06-2015, 21:38:31   #14
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So what are the odds they work something out but the Greek Parliament refuses to back it?
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Old 24-06-2015, 23:06:42   #15
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They played it lots every fall when I was growing up on Lake Erie. Good song when you're sitting around watching for waterspouts to form.

I may also name my haulers in Eve after that ship, just in case I get ganked.
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Old 25-06-2015, 09:21:12   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerdin View Post
So what are the odds they work something out but the Greek Parliament refuses to back it?
I don't know. It's all german to me.

http://www.socialeurope.eu/2015/06/w...ong-on-greece/

There won't be an issue to get anything passed from the greek parl. By anything I mean even the paranoid schizophrenic demands of the loan sharks as they stand now.

Tsipras could see some of his party members defect and not sign the deal but there is a big backup of 5th phalanx tiny free market small penis dictators fishing for personal and partizan gain, ready to side with a tsirpas deal and get the deal passed.

That doesn't matter though, because with a 64% of greek public opinion stating that it stands fearless on leaving the euro, tsipras has a lot of leeway and of course,he's too young. He won't commit political suicide. In other words, he won't bring a deal that will be the death warrant of his own political demise.

The EU screwed the pooch so bad, any deal or no deal or good deal or bad deal will be now insufficient to save it.
And it serves it right.

You can't go worship a dead carcass. When the rejuvenating juices of the Eu have dried up (democracy, human rights, social state) then pretending to support it is wrong.

There will be a 4 month extension, or Greece will be the Ifigeneia of Europe promtply providing a chain reaction of dissolution. It's not a trojan horse though, because there's no intent.

The current EU leadership is too weak, too blind and too dumb to see what's coming.

So maybe a 4 month extension, same difference.

Last edited by paiktis; 25-06-2015 at 09:24:51.
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Old 25-06-2015, 09:56:30   #17
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BTW I love it how the country is culturally restructuring itself and that this is being done through necessaity.

The inactivity and chicken game tsipras played for 4 months was inexcusable but the demands of the creditors are surreal, completely detouched from any sort of form of reality.

When the power gets driven off the hands of citizens and onto that of bankers, when the political elite refuses to stand up to its predetermined role this happens.
And it's all good and fine. Historical evolution and all.

However, I can't but laugh at those pitiful thousands that paraded indisciminently in favor of the EU.
They were tore down to shreds by an intelectual barage of affront that will have them cursed the hour they were born

It was spectacular when a commentator pointed out that they have internalized the current racist narative of the dominent european intelligencia and are actually behaving like what malcom x described as house negroes. A fine example of a white mask, black skin psychology by france fanon on the stockholm syndrome of colonial slaves.

Their so called europeanism doesn't stem from an adherence - hell not even an understanding - of englightment values and of values of logical narative, that they falsy monkey - like associate with europe, but from their internalization of every racist narative the dominent political elite has come up with to justify its disasterous austerity policy. Very remenescant of the frightening 30's narative.
A discard of their "masters" will be a risk to their formation of identity.

House negros indeed.


When you have achieved such an overwhelming intelectual victory over your meagre opposition, the sky is the limit really.
But is all done out of necessaity not choice (I think most things in the world are like that)

Of course, they could just have been representatives of the defeated right wing. Some of its senators also took part in the parade. Doesn't help them that they make a monkey look intellectual and that they are in favor of austerity when they have 53 homes each. It was hilarious.

But infuriating.

All these are good and fine but don't hold a candle to taking a dive in the sea at the beach, which I intend to do on saturday. Probably when the next zombie deal will be struck.

Last edited by paiktis; 25-06-2015 at 10:24:00.
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Old 25-06-2015, 17:21:07   #18
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"When you have achieved such an overwhelming intelectual victory over your meagre opposition"

Said the black knight.
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Old 25-06-2015, 19:46:52   #19
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Old 26-06-2015, 05:17:39   #20
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ5YU_spBw0
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Old 26-06-2015, 07:17:16   #21
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The pitiful scene of those who prtested in syntagma square in so called in favor of the european perspective of the country, holding flags of the EU and shouting rythmically "eyuore, europe", with their stupid mispelled banners in english which condemned the "red state", the syndicates and "stalinism in greece" are just one more proof of the internalization, by a large part of the population, of an orientalist view of the greeks by the west.



Those people reporduce all the racist stereotypes for Greece that the dominant european narative contstructed (lazy greeks, with archaic social structures who demand to live richly by money borrowed by the europeans and never returned). At the same time, they defend a caricature of europeanism who seems to come straight out of cold war propagandistic videos of anti-communist content from the decade of the 50s.

()

The gathered protestors, in their majority, members of lowmiddle and middle class, yelled for Greece to stay in Europe, which they identify solely with the euro.

A europe, whose leadership and organic intellectuals treat Greece, the last years, wholely racistly and dissmisively.

They humiliate its governments - "you are a fucking psychopath" sarkozi said to G. papandreou in Cannes in 2011 - they ridicule its ministers and show, in their large circulation newspapers, Greece with racist motives that link directly to the scary decade of the '30s

( absolutely true)


A europe who insists on a policy of austerity and cut backs despite the financial disaster of the last 5 years and on repayment of a debt that can't be repayed in no way, as former german chancellor helmout smit, stated.
And all of these happen against a government, good or bad, that is more europeaistic than the europeans themselves and fanatically in favor of the euro, and that the only thing it asks from the "paradise" europe is for VAT not to be increased and not to cut back further on the pensions.

Those who protested, are not europeanists, in the sense of defending some western, enlightment values that they identify with europe, except if these values are being embodied by georgiad and voultepsi (cc known ridiculous politicians of the prev. gov)

Following the splendind analysis of frants fanon about the psychology of colonially held people in his "black skin white masks" we would say that they are simply "natives" that have internalized the orientalist image of the westerners about greeks from the foundation of the greek state and beyond. As a pro-modernist, unorthological society in the grey zone of the balkans, which typically belongs to europe but is not a real part of the west.

A consequence of this internalization is that (the protestors) have developed an inferiority complex as belonging in a "problematic" and not exactly "western" society, which they try to overcompensate by monkey-imitating whatever they perceive as western culture and of course, by submitting themselves completely to they dictates of their master (the europeans) who, as a carrier of "enlightment" and "logical speech" is always right.
The perspective of them forfeiting this imaginiray acceptance of that Lord, constists for them almost a loss of identity and fills them with dread.

Those people are not "europeans" as they smuggly believe for themselves and agonizingly try to prove.

They are (according to malcom x) the house negros of the europeans.




https://sxoliastesxwrissynora.wordpr...CE%BC%CE%B1-2/

(the first pic is misleading since it is from furomulanbdia, the two others are from greece )
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Old 26-06-2015, 08:50:27   #22
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No, really? Tell That to Spain, Portugal, Ireland.

When will Greece establish a tax administration that can actually enforce some tax laws? Would save you from a rise in the VAT rate, might even allow for some extra pension money...
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Old 26-06-2015, 09:06:45   #23
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Let's not be deliberately obtuse.

When the tax base has been reduced by 25% as direct result of austerity, there sinply aren't no taxes to collect. That is if one wants to retain a semblance of a civilized state and not completely drive to the ground its social state even further.
If one wants to do that, then that will present some problems.


Spain ireland and the rest are fighting to retain their own syrizas from propping up. That's why today's creditor proposals are utopic. Either Greece accepts them and thus prove to the others that they have to bow their heads and keep living in neoliberal misery for ever or they are rejected, which then means, end to the necrozone, sorry, eurozone experiment. Fun while it lasted.

http://www.ert.gr/charlie-hebdo-noyez-un-grec/


and now a heart warming fighting song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJNoCtcc1bk
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Old 26-06-2015, 09:36:48   #24
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besides there are theories that the eurocrats are plotting a subversion of the gov and a replacement of it by more accomodating to them political schemes.
If this happens, it's the second coup d' etat.
It would seem that even a social democracy is unacceptable within the eurozone.
A definite prove that the euro is an undemocratic instrument designed to impoverish peoples.

It will stand on trial then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FnO3igOkOk
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Old 26-06-2015, 23:18:45   #25
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Referendum.

Kiss your eurozone goodbye.

Democracy cannot be blackmailed, democracy does not surrender.

Greeks are democracy.

And if anyone is thinking about subverting the government, they have another surprise coming.

The referendum will be no.

Freedom

fuck all y all (not you guys, except oerdin )


peace

paiktis out
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Old 27-06-2015, 13:26:58   #26
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I'm sure you will be missed
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Old 27-06-2015, 16:11:00   #27
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Old 28-06-2015, 09:10:24   #28
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You haven't even agreed on the terms yet, you default next tuesday, and now your cowardly politicians say they won't agree to anything without a national referendum. Obviously, you will default before there is any vote so I must conclude your cowardly politicians want to default but want to pretend it isn't their fault.
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Old 28-06-2015, 14:25:26   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paiktis View Post
Let's not be deliberately obtuse.

When the tax base has been reduced by 25% as direct result of austerity, there sinply aren't no taxes to collect.
Ok.
40 % of 100 = 40.
40 % of 75 = 0.

Grecian mathematics. No wonder there is no deal to be found.

Btw, the VAT gap in Greece - as measured against GDP - is around 35 %, compared to an EU average of about 15 %.
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Old 28-06-2015, 22:20:52   #30
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Banks closed and conflicting reports about capital controls being put in place.
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Old 29-06-2015, 05:45:45   #31
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What we learned so far: the greek invented debtmocracy.
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Old 29-06-2015, 06:08:35   #32
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Interesting experiment for a referendum:

Do you want others to pay for our mess? yes/no
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Old 29-06-2015, 07:41:25   #33
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Bull. No offence.
The greeks needed to have done lots of things, to this there is no question.

However, the IMF violated its own rules out of pressure by germany to get entangled in a program with a country whose debt was unservicable.

The fuck up starts from there.

Now of course the eurozone is fried.

I'm more concerned about my compatriots thank you very much.

Not about some piece of shit country which bloodbathed europe twice and is going for a third time.

Still, one should approach this rationally.

The program presented was destined to get rejected. No sane politician would want to accept it.

The conservative forces in europe (the cripple, god forgive me) is making it clear that they have certain govs that they accept and others that they don't and they don't accept syriza.

The people will decide.

I fear personally for the people that will see their savings devalued if a return to the drachma is agreed. That the eurozone will implode is secondary to my mind.

When all you hear from europe is how the euro will be saved and not what consequences this has on people, you have to think about people.

We will see.

I guess , this is the big time of my generation.

I'm still going to the beach, bitch.
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Old 29-06-2015, 07:46:52   #34
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I'm going to say something though:

the left is about the people. Wiping out the savings of people is not servicing them.
The people need to decide. A stop to this, their savings devalued and a new start?
Or that misery that is imposed that will last for decades.

What is best for the people?
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Old 29-06-2015, 07:47:24   #35
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Old 29-06-2015, 07:59:12   #36
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"Now of course the eurozone is fried."

Actually, the eurozone may be finally getting rid of a problem.

Just wondering, have the Syriza clowns a plan to start a parallel currency? Otherwise, everything will break down in Greece pretty fast.
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Old 29-06-2015, 08:03:24   #37
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The eurozone is not getting rid of a problem, in large part, it is the problem. Rather, it is cutting of its first limp (probably the dick - I say this in the good sense - or if you want to get poetic, its soul) and will eventually die of bleeding with italy and france next.

All this is secondary though.

As to if syriza has a plan, I don't trust varoufakis to tell me what it is. He's changing opinions faster than the eurogroup changes non papers.
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Old 29-06-2015, 10:11:53   #38
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Honestly sad to see you go, but if you ain't gonna meet the eurozone halfway...?

As for the referendum, well Greece had a fucking referendum = Syriza.

Seems to me that the best thing all round would have been if you guys had have left a few years back. Because now we've bailed you out with billions we'll never see again and you fuckwits still hate us!

Still, seems like a good time to go on holiday in a eurozone country right now, so it ain't all bad...
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Old 29-06-2015, 11:21:16   #39
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Who's you?

the UK?

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Old 29-06-2015, 11:46:08   #40
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I'm sure we're paying for your fucked up country somehow...

Here's a novel idea: Should Apple buy Greece?

Quote:
“I'm pretty sure this kind of bailout would get the Greek people's approval if put to a referendum,” Bershidsky said.
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Old 29-06-2015, 11:48:42   #41
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Except the rest of the world would hate you for becoming a tax haven to US mega corps - not to mention Greece having to sell its soul to do so...
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Old 29-06-2015, 11:54:27   #42
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I apprecieate you're trying to be witty and all but it isn't really working
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Old 29-06-2015, 11:55:16   #43
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I'm being genuinely helpful
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Old 29-06-2015, 11:55:51   #44
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Though, being Greek, I can understand why you think my behaviour might be a Trojan Horse...
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Old 29-06-2015, 11:55:54   #45
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Go to the goats mobius
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Old 29-06-2015, 12:02:26   #46
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Originally Posted by paiktis View Post
I'm still going to the beach, bitch.
Nice attitude
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Old 29-06-2015, 12:28:23   #47
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33311240

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The European Commission chief, Jean-Claude Juncker, has said he feels "betrayed" by the "egotism" showed by Greece in the failed debt talks.

He told a news conference that Greek proposals were "delayed" or "deliberately altered" and the Greek people "should be told the truth", but the door was still open to talks.

Talks broke down on Friday sparking a weekend of dramatic developments.

Greece called a surprise referendum and Greek banks are closed for a week.

The negotiations were not "a game of liar's poker", Mr Juncker said. "Either all win or all lose".

He said the talks were broken "unilaterally" by the announcement from the Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras that he was calling a referendum for 5 July.

The European Commission president said that he still believed a Greek exit from the euro was not an option and insisted that the creditors' latest proposal meant more social fairness - "no wage cuts, no pension cuts".
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Old 29-06-2015, 12:55:46   #48
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Old 29-06-2015, 12:56:22   #49
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Are we going to do a cut & paste race?

I know most of them by heart and I'm not interested.
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Old 29-06-2015, 13:32:47   #50
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Then to the beach with you!
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