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#101 | |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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Quote:
We didn't invade for that reason anyway. This is revisionist history. There were and are still many more legit targets that are a threat to the US. Iraq was never one of them until we invaded.
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#102 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2001
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Quote:
I'm not sure what we call it here exactly offhand though. |
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#103 | |
Flying Nazi Hamster
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: hovering just behind you
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Quote:
It was just a big revenge war based on mistruthifications or whatever Bush likes to call it. I'm not mourning the loss of hussein, but if there was ever a time to depose him it was back in the 80's when his own people rose up and asked for our help. You can't force democracy on people...its well...undemocratic.
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#104 |
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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And again, its a short term thing.
Last year, I was hearing how Afghanistan was a useless quagmire also. They just had their first election since fish walked out of the sea. It will be the same in Iraq eventually. As for North Korea horns, what would you suggesty be done? The US entered a treaty with them in the early 90s, they promised not to build nukes, we paid them not to. They built nukes anyway. What is the plan now?
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#105 |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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[
The 9/11 report says EXCATLY that Kitty. It said it could not find an OPPERATIONAL connection TO 9/11, HOWEVER, it did find numerous DIRECT links between Saddam, Al Qaeda as well as Palestian terror organizations. By direct links you mean "made phone contact or met in the last 20 years. really? How many Iraqi petrol dollars are going to terrorists, and how are they getting it? Now the iraqi petrol dollars are going to our glorious homeland Halliburterica. How many were going before the war? I'm pro-choice, so this comment is just another misfire on your part. Who said you weren't? By your logic noone should be concerned though. Those are accidents? The freedom fighters in Iraq are killing by accident? Try to worm your way ourt of bad arguements a different way. Who might they be? People under 17,000 don't pay income taxes, and the last series of cuts included all levels, the 'tax cut for the rich' is a slogan, not a fact. Unless you look at how they are distributed. The poor and lower middle class barely had any change, and in fact more people are in poverty now than ever before. But hey, that major tax cut that didn't do anythign for them has to help!
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#106 |
Evil Fanboy
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New Zealand
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Even under such conditions, Chris, you have the following choice:
* A nasty guy who *might* start producing things the moment the world is not looking, but who's more likely to use them to prop up his own regime and scare potential invaders. VS. * The people responsible for 9/11, who are still free. I don't think Iraq was a winner for Duyba, I think he dropped the ball almost completely there. Without Iraq, you'd have a president who had more elbowroom in the budget for his educational showpiece, far less discord and anger internationally, and hey, with the extra resource the military might even have found Osama (a dead cert election winner right there and no mistake). I mean, the appriopriate parallel with Iraq is north Korea. A vicious dictatorship being incredibly ruthless and mean to its population, and pursuing the development of nuclear weapons. There's a huge amount of concern, but absolutely no talk of invasion. Iraq remains a serious, and even suspicious, blot with Dubya for a lot of people.
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#107 | |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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Quote:
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#108 |
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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12 years Ned, 12 years.
When is the 'right time?'
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#109 | |||
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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Quote:
See what I mean by your bombastic comments kitty? Quote:
Explain how he 'violated' the traety. Quote:
This was exactly why the left lost the election, people saw through this stuff.
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#110 | |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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Quote:
Iraq hadn't been a threat to anyone since the gulf war. Now they are the centerpiece of proof about the goals of the US.
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#111 |
Evil Fanboy
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New Zealand
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Perhaps when you've done the utmost possible to depower the overwhelming current threat, THEN you deal with the one over the horizon.
After all, the NK gooks have kinda demonstrated that weapons programs are one thing, actually getting anything right is another. 12 years and Saddam becomes a sad old man with a crumbling regime, who knows what pressure might work then. Additionally, if you're going to invade a heavily muslim country, it would have been a good idea to invade it AFTER you've done your level best to depower Al Qaeda, not before or during. That way you reduce the level of organised insurgency that springs up immediately after the military victory.
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#112 | |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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Quote:
As for why the left lost, it wasn't because people saw through "this stuff" (the facts), it was because they were not able to see through the fear mongering smokescreen.
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#113 |
Evil Fanboy
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New Zealand
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Btw, big ups to Chris for single handedly responding to at least 4 different people all at the same time here... =)
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#114 | |
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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Quote:
You knew all along Saddam was a poor victim, and Bush was determined to put his presidency in jeopardy to just to get rid of him. That's the problem with this, talk about rediculous, it doesn't get any better, to believe you, we have to believe Bush didn't care about: Being re-elected The economy The armed forces It doesn't add up, and befor eyou say 'oil' we had all we wanted through the oil for food scam.
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#115 |
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Join Date: Nov 2001
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To really look at how different you are post-tax restructuring is to do a before and after comparsion of your typical costs. It's math time!
Example: Billy gets a $300 bonus tax refund check from the government this year. During the course of of a week Billy uses 15 gallons of gas driving to work and back and to the stores and back. This is a pretty common weekly total for a person. Let's just say the the avg price of gas was $1.80 in his area for the longest time. That comes out to spending $27 a week on gas for Billy. Now lets say that the price of gas makes a jump to about $2 and then fluxuates around that total for and extended period of time. This now means that Billy is spending $30 a week. In other words, he is now spending $3 more per week for gas. That doesn't sound like much per week, but look at it over an extended period of time ... Let's say that the avg was about $2 for the year and counting days off, Billy worked 50 weeks that year. $3 more a week * 50 weeks = $150 more a year. In other words, HALF of his extra rebate check went into paying for the increase in gas prices. Add that to an increase in the prices at food at the store and things like that, the $300 may easily be wiped out by the increases in costs. Basically getting more back in breaks does not necessarilly mean you have more money to splurge with. |
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#116 | |
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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Quote:
Kitty, SHOW US how Bush violated the treaty. Not that Powell 'corected him' which is just more nonsense, but show me where, and how, the US violated the treaty.
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#117 | |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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Quote:
So you don't think the admin hoped that the cost of the war would generate the industral revenue that would give the economy a boost? So you think that they give a damn about the common solider or the common person? Everything they have done says they don't.
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#118 | |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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Quote:
So, breaking a treaty is not violating it? Bush stopped the payments and pulled out of talks. Yet it is N Korea who is at fault for restarting their nuke program after bush violated the treaty? How else can I explain it? Explain to me how this is not a violation?
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#119 | |
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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Quote:
Desponded, Billy slits his wrists and dies.
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#120 | |
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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Quote:
I knew this before we began Kitty, Bush didn't break the treaty, Kim Ill Jung did, but you are too partisan to see it.
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#121 | |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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Quote:
Why don't you put that information down and see how stupid your arguement comes off?
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#122 | |
Flying Nazi Hamster
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: hovering just behind you
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Quote:
we have no right to force elections, war, democracy or anything else on other countries. We made it impossible for them to rise up themselves by the mediaeval sanctions we imposed. Bringing democracy by war is impossible. It reminds me of the mantra in 1984 'War is peace'. A classic case of doublespeak.
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#123 |
Evil Fanboy
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New Zealand
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Koshko:
I guess it depends on whether giving money to oil barons counts as stimulating the economy or not. Billy's as poor as he ever was, but the government isn't getting his $300 anymore. I'd want to ask RC or Lurker or at least someone with more than a passing interest in economics about whether this is trickle down in a way that works for an economy or not.
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#124 |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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I'll save you the time
Individual income tax [1] 987,209 million Corporation income tax [1] 194,146 million As opposed to 40 years ago when iirc 80% of our taxes came from corporations? They seemed to do pretty weel.
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#125 | |||||||
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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Quote:
Do even you believe this bullshit? Quote:
Next Quote:
How do you figure? Quote:
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#126 | |
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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Quote:
You are saying they didn't cut the taxes enough of people who don't pay taxes. It doesn't get and stupider than that.
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#127 |
Evil Fanboy
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New Zealand
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Are you really suggesting that the Republicans are totally responsible for corporations not paying nearly enough tax Kitty?
Or just that an individual tax cut doesn't help enough. And, come to think, it would kinda suck if there was no tax cut AND oil + medical expenses went up more or less by the same amount. How far can the federal government control the circumstance that affect those prices? (Including funding medicare properly and not starting wars in the middle east... :/)
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#128 |
Evil Fanboy
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New Zealand
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Bin Laden was making phonecalls 20 years ago. To the CIA...
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#129 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2001
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Quote:
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#130 | |
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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Quote:
The corporate tax laws are horrible, but raising the rate isn't an answer, as the rate is not going to where the money is. The top .05 is where it needs to be raised, not at the $200,000 mark, this was a major sticking point with me, this level killed small business, over $5 million is where it can be upped. The problem is, bothparties draw their funds from the top .05.
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#131 | |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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Quote:
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#132 | |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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Quote:
They only seriously cut the taxes of the people who need it the least, thile the poor and lower middle class (not the destitute) were completely fucked.
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#133 | |
Evil Fanboy
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New Zealand
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Quote:
I have no idea what the civilian bodycount in Iraq is. Certainly the 'freedom fighters' are giving the Americans a great run for their money in Iraqi casualties though...
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#134 | |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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Quote:
The tax laws are arranged now at the expense of the citizens and average workers for the benefiet of profits. By the standard republican arguement raising or not further lowering corporate taxes would destroy companies and force everyone to go out of buisness. Well then how the hell did all those corporations last? How did they make enough money to buy the parties to get the laws changed?
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#135 |
Evil Fanboy
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New Zealand
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Chris: Yeah that was my information too. The infamous big corporate mock-ads from last election, along the lines of 'whoever you vote for, WE win!
![]() Corporate tax and campaign finance reform seem untouchable subjects at the moment. A worry. Edit: Hey, agreement then! =)
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#136 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2001
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#137 | ||||||||
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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Quote:
Abu Nadal? Quote:
Would you prefer to be called a moonbat for making such an inane commenty instead? Quote:
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Her name is aphrodite and she rides a crimson shell |
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#138 | |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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Quote:
Imagine the US was invaded and taken over. Do you think our freedom fighters wouldn't hit targets where americans were working with and supporting the invading army? In WW2 did none of the freedom fighters ever kill anyone of their own nationality?
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#139 | |||
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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Quote:
No smart assed remark, just something insulting? Further proof you are full of shit. Quote:
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So, they were better off paying higher taxes, and having the marrige penalty, then getting a cut???? Please, only an imbecile would sugest that.
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Her name is aphrodite and she rides a crimson shell |
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#140 | |
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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Quote:
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Her name is aphrodite and she rides a crimson shell |
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#141 |
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Join Date: Nov 2001
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Well when you do tax cuts across the board, the weathiest will benefit the most because they are being taxed more money per each 1% in the first place. You lower a middle class families taxes by 1% and they can save a few hundred. You lower richer families taxes by 1% and they can save a few thousand.
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#142 | |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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Quote:
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#143 | |
Evil Fanboy
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New Zealand
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Quote:
Not to be a nut but that sounds really fucked up, Chris. The U.S is by definition NOT an illegal occupying army? :/ I can kinda get what you're saying but putting it like that won't work for more than a few people here I think.
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#144 | |
Hate shaped like a woman
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The dollhouse.
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Quote:
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#145 | ||||||||
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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Quote:
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You are insane if you think that a legit question. Quote:
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Sorry, but no. Quote:
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"War for haliburton' 'Illeagal occupiers' 'Terrorits are really freedom fighters' Those aern't arguments, they are lunatic fringe talking points. Quote:
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Her name is aphrodite and she rides a crimson shell |
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#146 |
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Join Date: Nov 2001
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Again like the preception of 'how much better we are doing now than before', the definition of the US forces in Iraq would vary by preception too. Some people will view the troops as liberators because they went in and liberated Iraq from Saddam while others will view the troops as invaders because they invaded Iraq to remove Saddam.
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#147 | |||
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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Quote:
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Got it. Quote:
Would that be the economy that is nearing record highs since Kerry lost? That has been surging every month for the past year? Go ahead, show some NYT table that claims we aern't doing well, as the DOW continues to blow the roof off. ![]()
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Her name is aphrodite and she rides a crimson shell |
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#148 |
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Join Date: Nov 2001
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I know the stuff I've been saying is being lost in the shuffle, but I really need to remember what i've said for the next tax-related arguement.
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#149 | |
really doesn't pay attention
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With the Monkey Pirates
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Quote:
If people here don't understand that, they are just wrong.
__________________
Her name is aphrodite and she rides a crimson shell |
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#150 | |
Badass Monkey
Join Date: May 2002
Location: In a tree.
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Quote:
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