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Old 25-05-2004, 13:37:41   #51
Funkodrom
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Don't forget that is the relative mass not the rest mass

mr = E/c2
m0 = sqrt(E2/c4 - p2/c2)

mr = m0 /sqrt(1 - v2/c2)

If m0 != 0 and v->c then energy -> infinity.
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Old 25-05-2004, 13:39:01   #52
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Ooooh, LoD got burned. I think.
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Old 25-05-2004, 13:39:49   #53
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If LoD was right we'd all be flying around at light speed.
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Old 25-05-2004, 13:41:08   #54
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I wish LoD was right. I'd love to fly around at light speed and smash things, with less than universe destroying consequences.
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Old 25-05-2004, 13:41:50   #55
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geeks.
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Old 25-05-2004, 13:42:00   #56
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In another dimension you are The Hulk.
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Old 25-05-2004, 13:44:30   #57
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I am?
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Old 25-05-2004, 13:45:03   #58
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Old 25-05-2004, 14:13:19   #59
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Two photons leave a light bulb traveling opposite directions, both at the speed of light. A rabbi and a priest are sitting upon each photon observing each other...
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Old 25-05-2004, 14:27:58   #60
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then what?
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Old 25-05-2004, 14:28:32   #61
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The preist offers the rabbi a bacon sandwich.
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Old 25-05-2004, 14:29:15   #62
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Mmmmm... bacon.
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Old 25-05-2004, 14:30:09   #63
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Then they both look at a clock.
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Old 25-05-2004, 15:08:31   #64
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And then the rabbi builds a rope out of his beard and lassos one of the strange creatures that lives in light speed land.
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Old 25-05-2004, 15:10:59   #65
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A interstellar pig.

And they make bacon and sausages and black pudding out of it and it's tasty fine but they need an interstellar egg and some interstellar toast.
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Old 25-05-2004, 15:12:35   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Venom
It's approximately 38% larger than my ass.
That's one damn big ass!
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Old 25-05-2004, 15:12:45   #67
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Old 25-05-2004, 15:21:22   #68
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Ooops, forgot relativity ....

Quote:
Originally posted by Venom
I wish LoD was right. I'd love to fly around at light speed and smash things, with less than universe destroying consequences.
Hah! I may be wrong, but at least my ideas are popular!
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Old 25-05-2004, 15:28:13   #69
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Old 25-05-2004, 15:31:13   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Qweeg
I don't see why they don't like the idea that the universe is infinately big, but are prepared to assume it sprang from an infinately dense point. All observations we make of the universes dimensions are completely subject to our perspective of it anyway.

I won't believe the universe is finite untill someone can proove that an Edge exists once and for all!
Infinity is associated with the Enigma of Infinity... and that means God/Creator in old school thinking. Mixing science and religion is definately no good (there's always someone offended).

Plus, science is about EMPIRICAL things. You cannot measure infinity. Therefore it falls out of that objective, empirical realm of science, and therefore enters into other domains, such as philosophy and religion.

Or so most of the hard scientist around me keep explaining.

Since the universe didn't start with an infinite amount of energy, it was not truly an infinitely dense point. Had it been, then all our universe now would still be an infinitely dense point, Qweeg. Therefore, there are actual, finite amounts. And that means it falls into the empirical realm. Perhaps we cannot measure it now, but that does not rule out that we will not be able to measure it in the future. Therefore, it is something that Science can and/or will know. Eventually.

Oh and--- this still doesn't rule out that the universe is a kind of "mobius" or "E-W, N-S" mapping... where you go off the left edge and come back on the right edge, Qweeg. Only, the "interesting" theory is that it's more of a "soccer ball", rather then a 2D torus mapping (E-W, N-S). Isn't Cosmology fun?
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Old 25-05-2004, 15:44:00   #71
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Qweeg is retarded.
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Old 25-05-2004, 15:46:33   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Venom
I want to live on an airplane so I'll live longer than the fools below me.
Not true.

You want to live in a strong gravity well, so that you live longer then the people in orbit.

Going very fast makes you seem to be slower to people not going as fast, but gravity slows down time. And the more gravity you have acting on you, the slower time passes. The less gravity on you, the quicker time passes.

You want to live forever, jump into a black hole. And I don't mean the kind.
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Old 25-05-2004, 16:58:43   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by Qweeg
I don't see why they don't like the idea that the universe is infinately big,
You don't need an edge to lose infinite size, just the ability of space to bend back on itself.

The reason a finite universe appeals is a) it gets rid of that nasty infinity, and b) we don't believe the universe has been around an infinite amount of time in order to grow infinitely large, expanding at or under the speed of light.

Damn, been too busy today, Darkstar has said as much.
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Old 25-05-2004, 17:01:47   #74
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Where can one buy a gravity well?
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Old 25-05-2004, 17:04:08   #75
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From Qweeg's Black Holes "R" Us (tm). I hear he's going to run a sale this weekend.
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Old 25-05-2004, 17:43:33   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gary
You don't need an edge to lose infinite size, just the ability of space to bend back on itself.

The reason a finite universe appeals is a) it gets rid of that nasty infinity, and b) we don't believe the universe has been around an infinite amount of time in order to grow infinitely large, expanding at or under the speed of light.

Damn, been too busy today, Darkstar has said as much.
I meant 'Edge' figuratively. I see infinity as a totally science-friendly concept, eternity on the other hand...

I think it's far more likely that the universe is infinate, then all these ridiculous theories based on the point-of-view from Earth that says there was a begining bit (ridiculous) and there is an end bit (poppycock!) and that the middle bit is this big (what twaddle!) Any observations of the sky simply tell us that the energy radiating from that direction is not old enough to tell us anything from further/earlier away. If the universe is infinit (of course) then light coming from further away has yet to arrive, thus- the universe seems 15 billion years big, because light from 30 billion years has yet to arrive.

there, I've set you all straight. ApartfromVenomwhoisgay.
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Old 25-05-2004, 18:23:21   #77
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Light beer sucks.
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Old 25-05-2004, 18:48:19   #78
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That's an undisputable Law of the Universe.
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Old 25-05-2004, 18:54:30   #79
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Guinness rules.
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Old 25-05-2004, 18:55:54   #80
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If dark beer is dark, shouldn't light beer give off light?
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Old 25-05-2004, 19:09:54   #81
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Not unless dark beer actually gives off dark. As for me, I've been swayed to the dark side.

Where's a Darth Vader Smilie when you want one ?
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Old 26-05-2004, 11:22:04   #82
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There's no dark side of the moon, really.
As a matter of fact, it is all dark.
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Old 26-05-2004, 11:24:40   #83
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Actually, the moon is really sunny.
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Old 26-05-2004, 11:24:49   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Inside the plane you don't know that you are travelling at light speed so you just walk forwards normally.

.... until someone tells you????

at which point you panic, and run around screaming even faster?
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Old 26-05-2004, 11:27:48   #85
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We could all be travelling at light speed right now, the whole damn cloud of galaxies... but to where? And why in such a hurry? Think about it... THEY ARE CHASING US!
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Old 26-05-2004, 11:28:35   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Imagine there's a clock in front of you.

It zooms away at light speed.

The light from the clock travels towards you at the speed of light as the clock speeds away at the same speed. So you see the same image of the clock forever.
You're saying that the photons would be "seeded" in space, and they'd stay still forever where they started?

That way, to *see* time pass, you'd just have to walk forward.
And to reverse time, you'd just have to retrace your steps back!
You're a ginius!
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Old 26-05-2004, 11:40:24   #87
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genius.
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Old 26-05-2004, 13:19:29   #88
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thanks, but that was intentional.
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Old 26-05-2004, 13:24:49   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoSe
You're saying that the photons would be "seeded" in space, and they'd stay still forever where they started?

That way, to *see* time pass, you'd just have to walk forward.
And to reverse time, you'd just have to retrace your steps back!
You're a ginius!
To see time pass on the clock. You already see time pass at your frame of reference.
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Old 26-05-2004, 13:25:03   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoSe
thanks, but that was intentional.
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Yeah sure, my Italian spelling is pretty good too, Fangula!
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Old 26-05-2004, 13:28:25   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoSe
You're saying that the photons would be "seeded" in space, and they'd stay still forever where they started?
No, it means before the "new" photons could leave the clock, it would already be in the same state as you saw it in the previous time instance. You'd just constantly see the same image, because the light reflecting/dispersing from the clock would have no chance to "catch" the new state of the clock.
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Old 26-05-2004, 14:44:19   #92
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Imagine an *emitting* digital clock (should you rely on photons bouncing of its surface to detect it, they'd never reach it as it would be escaping at the same speed...).

Funko exposition makes much more sense.
I can't deny yours "might" be more correct and/or precise (less "divulgation for the layman"), but I don't understand what should that "state" you speak of supposed to be.

Given that I know almost nil of relativity, I would be on a seriouser note be led to think that a photon travels at light speed *regardless* of the relative speed of the source. That would influence the wavelength, not the speed.
Should that hold (which would be a totally fortuitous coincidence), the photons from that clock would still reach you at lightspeed, only they'd be shot towards you so far apart one from the other, that the wavelength->inf and the frequency->0. You wouldn't "see" nothing (not even that alleged "still image") becouse you would't be reached by light, but by the longest "radiowaves"....

Aaaaahhhhh, thanks!... this thread gives me the sensation that this day has not passed in vain.
OTOH, I don't have a life.
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