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-   -   Forbidden thoughts about 9/11 (http://www.counterglow.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7261)

Koshko 11-09-2002 20:24:12

Forbidden thoughts about 9/11
 
Someone linked this in another forum:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/200...den/index.html

Honestly what forbidden thoughts did you have on 9/11/01?
What forbidden thoughts do you got now for that matter?

DaShi 11-09-2002 20:31:35

I hate floating heads.

MDA 11-09-2002 20:32:51

Your avatar's head appears to be floating :confused:

DaShi 11-09-2002 20:33:28

Adjust your brightness!

jsorense 11-09-2002 20:35:55

I wish I could stop the hate.

MDA 11-09-2002 20:37:40

It's maxed out, and I can see a little bit of something now...

This computer and monitor are too old to show even simple graphics correctly. I'm lucky we get better than 256 colors, I guess.

LoD 11-09-2002 20:44:23

Koshko - obviously you have a short memory and/or haven't read the 'kill all Arabs' rants of walrus and Venom last year on ACOL.

Mightytree 11-09-2002 20:49:32

Great article.

MDA 11-09-2002 20:52:29

Trouble with killing them is that most of the ones in easy reach fled their countries to live with us. Its just not good form to go shooting people that came to your country to avoid just such a thing.

I'd guess that most people have gotten some perspective in the last year, and favor a more measured response, but I'm horribly optimistic.

MDA 11-09-2002 20:57:56

" I've never told anyone this and it feels great to finally let it out. Especially since I know for the rest of my life that every year when 9/11 comes I'll think of how I spent it having sex with my secret boyfriend. I don't regret doing it, though."

Mightytree 11-09-2002 21:02:52

That's your forbidden thought?

MDA 11-09-2002 21:04:18

:lol: No, Venom PM'ed it to me.

Mightytree 11-09-2002 21:06:04

:lol:

walruskkkch 11-09-2002 21:24:24

Quote:

Originally posted by LoD
Koshko - obviously you have a short memory and/or haven't read the 'kill all Arabs' rants of walrus and Venom last year on ACOL.
I never said kill all the arabs. I only said that if they get in the way I'm not shedding any tears for those that danced in the streets or harbored "Forbidden thoughts" about 9/11.

Provost Harrison 11-09-2002 21:29:59

My forbidden thought is that the nature of US foreign policy gave people the will to commit such a dire act. It was a tragedy, but the people should question the state and ask, 'why would anyone have such a strong desire to do this? What could motivate them to suicide and such destruction?'.

Certainly no disrespect to the people and friends who lost their lives, but the US state is very unpopular, and the twin towers were a major working monument of the US state and capitalism.

walruskkkch 11-09-2002 21:39:20

Pity the foreign policy of terrorist aren't questioned as deeply. If they wish to act in this fashion in response to our policies then they shall suffer for their actions, unless you truly believe they were justified in their actions which gives rise to the question as your agreeing with how they responded.

Mightytree 11-09-2002 21:39:55

There are two quotes from the article that come pretty close to what I was thinking that day:

"I sort of felt, hey, they finally caught up to us. All the dirt the U.S. has thrown finally came back around to kick us hard where it hurts."

"Where is the acknowledgment that this was not a 'cowardly' attack on 'civilization' or 'liberty' or 'humanity' or 'the free world' but an attack on the world's self-proclaimed superpower, undertaken as a consequence of specific American alliances and actions?"

Mightytree 11-09-2002 21:45:52

Which is basically what Provost said ...

walruskkkch 11-09-2002 21:46:13

ANd that makes it right?

Mightytree 11-09-2002 21:53:47

Quote:

Originally posted by walruskkkch
And that makes it right?
No, the amount of dirt that was thrown back was certainly not appropriate. Still, you shouldn't be surprised that if you throw around with dirt, people will eventually throw some back.

Those that were and are surprised, I hope they will open their eyes a bit more. As Provost said, the US should think about what the root of terrorism against them is and not just use the opportunity to bomb everyone that might be responsible. That will just lead to more terror.

Lazarus and the Gimp 11-09-2002 21:55:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
My forbidden thought is that the nature of US foreign policy gave people the will to commit such a dire act. It was a tragedy, but the people should question the state and ask, 'why would anyone have such a strong desire to do this? What could motivate them to suicide and such destruction?'.


Why blame the US? Any twat with a gun is capable of slaughtering thousands on very little provocation. Take Rwanda as an example. It's no reason to find fault with the victim.

Diss 11-09-2002 21:56:16

I once thought about nuking the entire middle east to the ground including some North African nations and Israel.

I still stand by that thought :lol:

Mightytree 11-09-2002 21:57:44

Nuking Israel only would certainly solve most problems.

walruskkkch 11-09-2002 21:58:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Mightytree


No, the amount of dirt that was thrown back was certainly not appropriate. Still, you shouldn't be surprised that if you throw around with dirt, people will eventually throw some back.

Those that were and are surprised, I hope they will open their eyes a bit more. As Provost said, the US should think about what the root of terrorism against them is and not just use the opportunity to bomb everyone that might be responsible. That will just lead to more terror.

We understand the roots of terrorism, we just favour a solution that involves ending it rather than appeasing it. I suppose if someday they plant a nuclear device in London you all will just go "Pity we supported the US, our bad. Now don't do that again pretty please."

Mightytree 11-09-2002 22:05:03

Quote:

Originally posted by walruskkkch
We understand the roots of terrorism, we just favour a solution that involves ending it rather than appeasing it. I suppose if someday they plant a nuclear device in London you all will just go "Pity we supported the US, our bad. Now don't do that again pretty please."
You can't just 'end' terrorism the way you're trying it now, you will only aggravate it. Violence will only lead to more violence. It's a pity you don't see that. When the next plane hits the White House, I bet you'll still be surprised.

walruskkkch 11-09-2002 22:08:12

I pity you don't recognize that appeasement won't work either. It won't suprise me at all if another attack occurs since the terrorists can hid behind the Europeans obstruction of any constructive action on rooting them out. Your lack of support for us simply translates into support of them whether you wish to admit so or not.

Provost Harrison 11-09-2002 22:21:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


Why blame the US? Any twat with a gun is capable of slaughtering thousands on very little provocation. Take Rwanda as an example. It's no reason to find fault with the victim.

But here, the precipitation of the event can quite clearly be connected to US foreign policy. It is a shame that, at the end of the day, it is people that suffer.

walruskkkch 11-09-2002 22:26:00

But the still does not justify terrorism, the targeting of innocent civilians in such a fashion. There are other ways to respond to disagreements with US foreign policy than choosings such dastardly means as they did. Or are you supporting the killing of innocent civilians as a means of protesting policy?

GP 11-09-2002 22:40:48

PH, your fodbidden thought is kind of clue-less. But than, what should we expect.

Think about this. Black people are very unpopular with the KKK. Should we think about what it is that they do that makes them so unpopular. (I mean unless you are Calistiga and you actually do want to think that way...)

Mightytree 11-09-2002 22:43:57

Extreme measures are more likely to be heard and taken seriously. One thing the terrorists achieved is that people realize now that the founding of a Palestinian state is absolutely necessary. Even Bush said that. Nothing would have happened without the WTC attack.

moomin 11-09-2002 22:45:26

So now Ming doesn't have to do his part to bring the sweet flavour of Poly over here for all of us to enjoy.

Mightytree 11-09-2002 22:45:37

Quote:

Originally posted by GP
PH, your fodbidden thought is kind of clue-less. But than, what should we expect.

Think about this. Black people are very unpopular with the KKK. Should we think about what it is that they do that makes them so unpopular. (I mean unless you are Calistiga and you actually do want to think that way...)

Apples and oranges.

Mightytree 11-09-2002 22:46:30

Quote:

Originally posted by moomin
So now Ming doesn't have to do his part to bring the sweet flavour of Poly over here for all of us to enjoy.
No one forces you to read any of this.

moomin 11-09-2002 22:50:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Mightytree
No one forces you to read any of this.
Oh, sorry. Forgot to bring my bitching certificate again.

walruskkkch 11-09-2002 22:51:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Mightytree
Extreme measures are more likely to be heard and taken seriously. One thing the terrorists achieved is that people realize now that the founding of a Palestinian state is absolutely necessary. Even Bush said that. Nothing would have happened without the WTC attack.
Just more comfort for the terrorists. Rationalizing their behavior will just encourage to go about creating more serious measures to ensure more serious consideration. Which, at some point, becomes blackmail pure and simple.

And I have to say that the Bush administration, as well as previous administrations, have not been opposed to the establishment of a Palestinian state. The only wish to see one arise which will live in peace with an Israeli state and not one that comes about on it's ashes.

Plenty was happening until Arafat decided to shoot for the moon and turned down the statehood offered by Clinton and Barak.

Mightytree 11-09-2002 22:52:21

Quote:

Originally posted by moomin


Oh, sorry. Forgot to bring my bitching certificate again.

Do you think others like to read your bitching?

Provost Harrison 11-09-2002 23:10:21

Quote:

Originally posted by GP
PH, your fodbidden thought is kind of clue-less. But than, what should we expect.

Think about this. Black people are very unpopular with the KKK. Should we think about what it is that they do that makes them so unpopular. (I mean unless you are Calistiga and you actually do want to think that way...)

Oh come on, the two are not remotely comparable. KKK is a supremacist movement, not the result of years of meddling by a foreign power, for selfish ends.

And I never said I advocated terrorism either, but prevention is better than cure. Look at what has incensed people. It is pointless playing the hard done to, because it only goes so far. The families of the people who died have my sympathies like in any tragedy, but in no way is that a carte blanche for the US machine to continue on it's path, but should be a prompt to question, both from the US populace and world community as a whole.

walruskkkch 11-09-2002 23:12:13

And the path you advocate will end the problem? Appeasement has never worked, and never will.

Mightytree 11-09-2002 23:16:25

What are you going to do, walrus? Bomb the whole Middle East into nirvana?

walruskkkch 11-09-2002 23:19:36

If that's what it takes. But I doubt we will need to do that. Removing Saddam will be a start and then focusing on eliminating terrorist supporting regimes will be next. Eventually when they have no where to hide and plan they will be less of threat. It will take time and effort but at least it has a better chance of eliminating the threat then just sticking your head and in the sand and saying "We agree with you, don't hurt us!" You know what the terrorists want, you willing to give it to them?

Mightytree 11-09-2002 23:25:26

What a great plan. How many people are you going to kill?

Darlin 11-09-2002 23:25:35

i'm reading all this , and.... i honestly cant see just taking an attack and going on and not doing something about it, maybe its just my American Pride .... idk.. its still painful to think about

No longer Trippin 11-09-2002 23:31:49

Appeasement worked real well in the 30's with Germany, didn't it. We all saw what that led to.

walruskkkch 11-09-2002 23:33:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Mightytree
What a great plan. How many people are you going to kill?
AS many as necessary, as few as possible.

Mightytree 11-09-2002 23:33:24

Oh Trip, you again ... :D

Mightytree 11-09-2002 23:34:30

Quote:

Originally posted by walruskkkch


AS many as necessary, as few as possible.

How many did you kill Afghanistan? Were those civilians really necessary?

walruskkkch 11-09-2002 23:37:18

Afghanistan is realitively safe now, although we will have to keep an eye on it. And very few civilians died, we did a good job of avoiding them as much as possible as oppesed to the terrorists you seem to support who seek them out. Frankly their country is alot better off without the Taliban. I would have prefered not to have to have gone in but then the Taliban made that choice for us.

RedFred 11-09-2002 23:37:31

My forbidden thought is that 9/11 was the beginning of troubled times, not the end. To commit such an act of mass murder the terrorists have essentially lost their humanity. So what is the difference for them if several thousand die or several million?

As time passes and technology becomes accessible to more and more radical groups even more horrific acts could result. Nuclear, chemical or biological attacks, it could all happen. And Oklahoma City showed that groups within the US could be just as insane as groups from outside of it.

And they still have some anthrax looney out there.

Someone mention Nirvana? I forgot how repetitive they were:

Territorial Pissings

Come on everybody
Smile on your brother
Everybody get together
Try to love one another right now

When I was an alien
Cultures weren't opinions

Gotta find a way
To find a way
When I'm there
Gotta find a way
A better way
I had better wait

Never met a wise man
If so it's a woman

Gotta find a way
To find a way
When I'm there
Gotta find a way
A better way
I had better wait
Gotta find a way
To find a way
When I'm there
Gotta find a way
A better way
I had better wait

Just because you're paranoid
Don't mean they're not after you

Gotta find a way
To find a way
When I'm there
Gotta find a way
A better way
Gotta find a way
To find a way
When I'm there
Gotta find a way
A better way
I had better wait
Gotta find a way
To find a way
When I'm there
Gotta find a way
A better way
I had better wait
Gotta find a way
To find a way
When I'm there
Gotta find a way
A better way
I had better wait

Sean 11-09-2002 23:42:09

Quote:

Originally posted by RedFred
As time passes and technology becomes accessible to more and more radical groups even more horrific acts could result. Nuclear, chemical or biological attacks, it could all happen.
As terrorist attacks become more deadly, I would like to think there would be a reduction in their number, as potential terrorists say to themselves ‘what kind of message am I sending here?’

Having said that, if they (ugh) were going to do that, they probably would have already.

RedFred 11-09-2002 23:42:45

Afghanistan is not 'relatively safe', imho. The Taliban melted away, temporarily joined other groups or fled the country. Afghanistan is now like it was before the Taliban. Warlords in charge, little central authority outside Kabul; and kidnapping, piracy and opium exports all experiencing a huge increase.

A lot of thought went into routing the Taliban in Afghanistan; much less went into what happens afterward.


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