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Beta1
19-12-2002, 14:14:20
OK then the players are:

Beta1,
RC,
Maroule,
LoD.
Shaker,
BigGameHunter
MDA

The Rules:

Games to be played in either CMBB or CMBO depending on whats available.
All games to be 2000 point, combined arms, meeting engagements. medium maps, 30 turns in CMBO, 27+5 in CMBB
Any mix of troops that fits the Combined arms is legal (but if you buy 2000 green volksturm dont blame me)
Date, terrain type, weather, is up to you lot to decide BUT the starting player MUST tell his opponent the setup before troops are chosen.

PBEM or TCP/IP

Except the LoD v Maroule match which will have to be played on the CMBO demo and I'll leave it up to them to decide how.

Please report results, including final points and sides played (and screenshots of RC's tanks getting whacked)

To make it simple the first player in each pairig gets to choose the settings and the sides and sets up the game (These will be reversed in the second round and players must switch sides allies/axis)

Round 1 matches

Beta1 v RC
LoD v Maroule
RC v Maroule
LoD v Beta1
Maroule v Beta1
RC v LoD

Round 1 , late entry matches

Beta1 v The Shaker
RC v The Shaker
Maroule v The Shaker
Lod v The Shaker

Round 1 (even later entrant)

BigGameHunter v LoD
BigGameHunter v RC
Beta1 v BigGameHunter
Maroule v BigGameHunter
BGH v Shaker

Round 1 (ridiculously late entrant)

MDA v BGH
MDA v RC
Beta1 v MDA
LoD v MDA
Maroule v MDA
MDA v Shaker

Unless theres anything I've missed, feel free to start

Results to date:

Round 1

Maroule (G) v Shaker (R) - CMBB, 59%:41%, Minor victory for Maroule
Maroule (G) v Beta1 (R) - CMBB, 36%:64% agreed ceasefire on turn 28, Tactical Victory for Beta1
Maroule (G) v BGH (US/B) - CMBO, 87%:13%, total victory to Maroule
Maroule (Allies) v MDA (G) - CMBO, 66%:31% Tactical victory for Maroule
RC (G) v Maroule (R) - CMBB, 28%:72%, ended total victory for Maroule
Beta1 (B) v RC (G) - CMBO 82%:18%, total victory for Beta1
Beta1 (R) v Shaker (G) - CMBB 68%:32%, tactical victory for Beta1
Beta1 (B) v BGH (G) - CMBO 16:84, total victory for Beta1
Beta1 (G) v MDA (B) - CMBO 63:37, minor victory to Beta1
RC (R) v Shaker (G) - CMBB? 16%:84%, total victory for Shaker
MDA (Ger) vs Shaker (Brit) - CMBO 21%:79% Allied Major Victory to Shaker
BGH(Ger) vs RC (Brit?) - CMBO 58%:37% Axis minor victory to BGH
BGH (axis) v shaker (allies) - CMBO 22%:78% Axis surrender


Round 2

Shaker (G) v Maroule (R) - CMBB 26%:74%, total victory for Maroule
Shaker (R) v Beta1 (G) - CMBB 60%:40%, minor defeat for Beta1
Maroule (G) v RC (R) - CMBB, 63%:37%, minor victory to Maroule
Beta1 (F) v Maroule (R) - CMBB, 62%:38%, tactical victory to Maroule
RC (B/US) v Beta1(G) - CMBO 25%:75% Total victory to Beta1
(G) - Germans, (R) - Russians, (B) - Brits, (F) - Finns



Current standings



Player Played Points Average

Maroule 8 515 64.38(Tactical Victory)
Beta1 8 514 64.25(Tactical Victory)
Shaker 7 394 56.28(Minor Victory?)
BGH 4 119 29.75 (minor defeat)
MDA 3 89 29.66(minor Defeat?)
RC 6 162 27.00(Total Defeat)
LoD 0 0

Resource Consumer
19-12-2002, 14:29:57
OK. I'll get my two started over the next couple of days. One question (because I'm thick) is there a turn limit on these games?

Beta1
19-12-2002, 14:41:00
Ah good point - I forgot that and the map size - editing now

made it 27+5 in CMBB using the randomiser option as that will give a 28-32 turn game. The uncertain end point prevents the rather unsightly "pile onto the opponents objective to make it contested and deprive him of points at the end even though I cant possibly hold it and would be annialahted 1 turn later" effect

And as we are counting points as well as wins thats quite important.

Resource Consumer
20-12-2002, 11:36:44
OK - I'll get preferred e-mail addresses from maroule and LoD

Beta1
20-12-2002, 11:55:20
good idea - turns out it was my fault the last turn got delayed - I sent it to some old LoD address.

Seeing as I have the choice in our match. I'm going to break with form and not play the germans. I'll take CMBO with me as the allies. Send you the file this weekend when I have figured out the rest but it will probably be a rural or village, medium hills and cover. And probably sometime in spring/summer 1945. So you wont have to worry about 14" arty. Think I might run with my british airborne with armour support approach

Resource Consumer
20-12-2002, 12:34:27
maroule you frog:D

Your PMs are turned off. PM me with which e-mail you want to use.

Beta-1 - just to confirm. !st player can choose which side and then this is reversed in the second game. Right?

Funkodrom
20-12-2002, 12:38:09
Maroule's on holiday now.

Resource Consumer
20-12-2002, 12:41:51
I can set it up anyway. He can just wait for it then.:D

Now, where is that drunken Pole.

Beta1
20-12-2002, 12:44:19
Yep first player in each pair gets to choose any settings apart from those above but should tell the other player what they are BEFORE choosing troops. So in our game I get the call this time. In round two its your call. the only other issue is that players must swap sides (allies/axis) in each round. So if I take the allies this time, in the return match I'm axis

Resource Consumer
20-12-2002, 18:53:52
OK. LoD and I are undeeeerway with CMBO and I have one CMBB set up for Maroule. We should do the turn tracking in the competitions forum.

Resource Consumer
06-01-2003, 14:47:45
Bumped for maroule...

Beta1
06-01-2003, 14:59:10
If he turned his PMs on things would be easier.

Do you want to do a turn tracking thread for our game RC?

I think I'll post a screenshot of our map, that way I can get my excuses in first when the 150mm gun thats going to turn up on the top of that hill flattens the town...

I really really wish you could see the map before choosing your troops - I guess that would make it too easy. Theres going to be some very tired tommies at the end of this game as they are going to be dragging some heavy ordinance quite some way.


(btw LoD - did you get the last email I sent?)

maroule
06-01-2003, 15:37:14
no funko, I'm back :cry:
ok, my PM is on
I'll download CMBO's demo tonight
I can start from tonight on, either by email, or directly on live ADSL

Beta1
22-01-2003, 14:08:29
^bumped and the shakers is now included in round 1, I have set it up so everyone sets up the games for him but if you have done this already the otherway round let me know and I'll correct it

Beta1
28-01-2003, 17:46:47
LoD is now back from exams so expect another game shortly...

Beta1
03-02-2003, 19:26:17
^bumped for first result

Resource Consumer
03-02-2003, 19:34:47
that wasn't a result it was a stitchup between you and the spineless French...

maroule
04-02-2003, 08:47:47
The first game of this little competition is therefore over, and it offered an interesting variation around the beloved Murphy’s Law.

This being my very first game ever on PBEM, I started by fucking up the set up : I chose troops that started randomly injured (some platoons with 20% losses before the first shot was fired, but at least that was equally shared by the two sides), and got fixed 30 turns instead of variable.

I tried to devise a choice that would surprise Beta, a player more experienced than I, and dig in my memories of the Eastern Front. I wanted to play the Germans, and remembered clearly two facts : the T34 scared the shit out of them, and their 88 cannons (originally AA) were absolutely murderous for Russian tanks. So I went ‘hum, let’s start early, to avoid the T34, and on a very flat map, to maximise my 88’.

Turns out I made two mistakes :
- I chose 1942, and the T34 were already there (they arrive in 41 actually, and since we don’t play the rarity option, even choosing 41 wouldn’t have changed – BTW I suggest we play with the rarity option, it’s much more historical)
- I chose low hills, low forest, countryside, clear weather.

The map came up, and I realised that ‘low hills’ which is VERY different from ‘no hills’ : basically, my 88 hadn’t the LOS I wanted, and could only see a small quarter of the map, and nothing past the halfway line, which sunk behind a low ridge.

The map had 3 flags, two large ones on each sides, and a small one in the centre. I thought a hammer/anvil tactic could work. I would put the most mobile part of my army on my left flank, 3 Mk4 and 3 inf. sections to push for the large left flag, a part of the map where the wood where the most dense. The other two flags were covered by my 88 (who could see just up to them, but not a lot behind) + a few weak armoured vehicles (that I hid for a potential last rounds lighting strike). The idea was to push my left force up then right to the centre, and hopefully in the meantime blunt his attacks on the right and centre with my 88.

It didn’t go according to this lame plan, of course. First, Beta had the same preferred direction, and pushed with most of his strength on my left. Our two mobile forces went head to head past the woods : two T34 and two Mk4 fired on each other, only two Mk4 exploded. My other Mk4 peeked through a wood opening and got shot by a canon who obviously had a LOS I hadn’t anticipated. On that flank, I therefore only had my infantry, who had done a good job of decimating his, but suddenly had to run hide in the woods to avoid the remaining T34. They hid and pretty much stayed there. A late infantry assault on them, by a bored Beta, only brought Russians casualties, but it was a fringe action. In the right, I took the flags, in the centre I disputed it, under the cover of my 88, but he could equally cover it from his side, and none of our infantry could really grab it. It appeared on my map as German held, but seeing the score, it might not have been the case. Of course, the score reflects also the heavy German losses, and the 3 mk4 destroyed cost me a lot of points.

I was happy with my infantry play, and my cautious tank play at the beginning
I did learn a few things : better use smoke, be even more patient, don’t reveal your canons by firing them on puny infantry (which they did a contrario), and of course BETTER PLAN YOUR INITIAL SET UP!!!

Thank you Beta for this game, and expect a stronger opposition for the next one.

maroule
04-02-2003, 08:52:38
Originally posted by Resource Consumer
that wasn't a result it was a stitchup between you and the spineless French...

these words might come back to haunt you after our game final results :coolgrin:

Beta1
04-02-2003, 09:56:37
Maroule's analysis is pretty accurate. My mistake was that I thought the flag furthest to my left was a minor objective rather than a major one and so failed to contest it at all (except for a tankhunter team who was only there as an observer. I also failed to appreciate the size of the mao and so in trying to flank the right hand wood left my troops pretty knackered after running all over the place.

I also set up AT guns to cover my side of the ridge, 2 7.62s and a 45mm to be exact. I was expecting some slighlty more aggressive armor usage by maroule and so had all three setup as a kill zone covering the apporach between the flag on my right and the centre. As it turns out only one tank came that way and the T34s had to cover most of the AT work (pretty succesfully as they accounted for 2 Pn4s with the loss of only one crwemember).

One thing I really hated about this map was the openness - as a result almost all my artillery went on smoke to protect my advance. One less platoon and a set of halftracks to motor a strike force around and the fight for the right flag woulld have been very different. A little arty left at the end and your 88 would have been toast, clearing the way for the KV to crest the ridge and smack your ACs

The centre flag appeared as russian held for me - although I found that suprising as I only had 1 unborken squad there - although he was sitting right on the flag. The presence of the KV behind the ridge may have swung it.

All in all very entertaining (apart from the last few turns when we were pretty static.

I tend not to favour the rarity option as it tends to unbalance the game - it makes the germans too dominant in the early years and the russians too dominant later. For the return match I'm seriously considering choosing 1941, fins v russians in the snow with skis - its very entertaining as its all fast tanks and armoured cars. There are t34s but they bog rather to often to be worthwhile!

maroule
04-02-2003, 14:55:54
so that I improve my game, please expand on ;

"A little arty left at the end and your 88 would have been toast"

considering your arty would not have been in direct sight of the 88, probably (and considering the less than accurate aim in that case) would it have been enough to destroy them? regular mortar? off the map mortar?

Beta1
04-02-2003, 16:21:28
The easiest way (and best) way to dispose of a AT gun is with a on map mortar. The 80mm size works very effectively - just target the area where the gun is and 1-2 turns later no more gun. On this map getting LOS would have been hard unless I ferried it on a tank. I did take one mortar but wasted it on lobbing shells into the wood. The best option would have been a mortar HT (cant remember if the russians had many of those). This could have been driven up behind the ridge and used the company HQ on the ridge to spot.

I was saying that I wasted my 2 80mm mortar FOs by using most of their ammo for smoke - had i not screwed up my infantry maneuver the smoke would not have been needed and I would have had some spare shells near the end. These could be targetted on you guns even without LOS (although this would have increased the spread). 6 tubes firing would be quite likely to get the guns within a couple of turns. Alternatively I could have dropped smoke infront of them, brought the KV over the ridge and wasted your light armour.

I normally try and conserve some artillery shells for as long as possible - just ask keith - hes been under almost continual 4.2" fire for the last 10 turns and I still have a bucket of 4.5" shells to finish him off with. In this turn I screwed up my infantry play, had to compensate with my arty and ended up not having enough for the endgame.

I'm trying to improve my own game by reducing my reliance on off map artillery as I think its a bad idea in CMBB due to the higher cost and slower reaction and accuracy than in CMBO.

Resource Consumer
04-02-2003, 16:29:12
A question on this "company HQ to spot" thing. I remember you discussing this with MtG on FFZ.

How do you do this? Is there some particular command? (can you use a platoon HQ? Battalion HQ?)

maroule
04-02-2003, 16:33:18
another question : how do you keep shells? When I give a fire command, in two turns everything is gone. Any way to have them fire a limited amount?

Beta1
04-02-2003, 17:20:58
In CMBO a mortar can fire on any point or unit in LOS, just as any other unit type. However you can also set a mortar to target any point that its HQ unit can see, as long as the mortar is in command and control at the time (ie is connected to the HQ by a red line). I use this a fair bit - as the brits get a 2" mortar with each platoon I often group these together under the command of the company HQ - RC in our game the 2 level building on the hill on my side of the map has a Company HQ sitting on the front of the second floor with 3 mortars under his command tucked in behind the building - you cant see any of them but I can drop fire on any point the HQ can see (although as youve been shelling the building you got one of the mortars and the other two retreated into the building for shelter). In CMBO vehicle with mortars couldnt do this indirect fire which made them a bit shit as they had to be in LOS of their target which makes them very vunerable. In CMBB this has apparently been fixed and you can spot with HQs as normal (I havnt actually tried this but it "should" work according to the forums)

As for saving ammo - dont fire for 2 turns :) To make it a bit more sensitive if the countdown to firing suggests your going to fire for a whole minute and you dont want to try adjusting the fire point slightly - this usually adds 20-40 sec to the countdown so now you'll only fire for the last 40-20 seconds of the turn which should save a few shells. But the most important way of saving shells is not to blast away at the same target forever - if youve been dropping 150mm stuff on it for the last minute its probably screwed anyway - save the rest for another intact squad rather than bombing a broken one to destruction. A squads thats been broken by heavy arty fire may hang around for a bit but 9 times out of 10 will leg it if you mount a infantry assault. Better to have 2 paniced/broken squads who will run away from an attack than 1 destroyed one and 1 thats going to put up a fight.

LoD
04-02-2003, 17:47:49
Damn, you had to give them away those secrets?
:nervous:

maroule
05-02-2003, 14:17:58
LoD, lazy bastard, will you send me your damm CMBO file??? My first game with Beta is over and I'm bored....

Beta1
05-02-2003, 14:23:29
I forgot you have CMBO maybe the rematch should be on the western front rather than the eastern...

maroule
05-02-2003, 14:31:23
no way, I'm just starting to understant the different troop choices on CMBB and I want to play the russians... so we'll stick to it for the return leg. For future games, sure...

Beta1
05-02-2003, 14:47:18
Ok - I'll play nice and let you be the ruskys. Personally I think its just your french anti-americanism :)

maroule
05-02-2003, 14:55:54
well, apparently I could play the Free French in CMBO...

Resource Consumer
05-02-2003, 15:10:19
should lead to a short game.....;)

maroule
05-02-2003, 15:12:59
but more disputed than another game I have in mind :rolleyes:

or are you going to totally surprise me in the last turn?

Resource Consumer
05-02-2003, 15:27:57
There is plenty of room for surprise...

maroule
05-02-2003, 15:31:57
but few turns
I reckon though that at least 200 points worth of troops are not on the map on your side

Resource Consumer
05-02-2003, 16:24:13
It's like estate agents - location, location, location

maroule
05-02-2003, 16:27:15
:hmm: that should be clarified tonight

Funkodrom
05-02-2003, 16:37:16
http://apolyton.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1696824

Resource Consumer
05-02-2003, 16:53:30
I bet there won't be one more on the google list tomorrow...

Funkodrom
05-02-2003, 16:58:03
If you actually search for "French Military Victories" on Google you get 83 results

Search for British Military Victories you get 52,900

Resource Consumer
05-02-2003, 19:10:38
an anglo saxon conspiracy

maroule
05-02-2003, 19:29:37
try in in french, like 'victoire militaire france' and you get 21.000 hits. Considering most of web sites are in english, it's not that bad...

LoD
05-02-2003, 19:35:40
Originally posted by maroule
LoD, lazy bastard, will you send me your damm CMBO file??? My first game with Beta is over and I'm bored....

Might be tommorow, but probably Friday.

Originally posted by Funkodrom
http://apolyton.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1696824

:lol:

maroule
06-02-2003, 08:26:40
english pigs, I fart in your general direction

Funkodrom
06-02-2003, 09:48:01
Even the Pole is laughing at you. :D

maroule
06-02-2003, 10:10:43
I accept it from the Pole, out of the traditionnal friendship between our countries, and because I kinda like the idea they charged tanks with cavalery

Beside, the pole lancer cavalery (Lanciers Polonais) killed a lot of red coats during the napoleonic wars, that deserve respect.

But you english devious bastards, you get no respect! ha ha! look at the shitty resort we chose to receive Blair!!! we pick Versailles for the germans, and Le Touquet for the brits!!! ah aha haha!!

when Bush comes, we'll receive him in the McDo of Tourcoin, in the industrial suburbs of northen france

Funkodrom
06-02-2003, 10:14:07
If they'd charged french tanks they probably would have won.

maroule
06-02-2003, 10:23:06
proof of the english biais, let's pick two battles of same historical importance/same period/same crushing result (but reversed) :
search google on Castillon victory : 1000 hits
search google on Azincourt/Agincourt victory : 7000 hits

Funkodrom
06-02-2003, 10:56:57
Hmm...

At Castillon 6-9,000 French + 1,000 Breton cavalry armed with 300 handguns and Cannon defended fortified positions against a force of about 4,000 English.

At Agingcort 6,000 English beat 20,000 Frenchmen in an open battle.

maroule
06-02-2003, 11:08:22
but Castillon was decisive and effectively won/ended the 100 years war, Agincourt, while more spectacular (and publicised) did not achieve anything lasting.

Waterloo was not the most spectacular napoleonic battle by far (either in number of troops or in terms of overwhelming odds being turned - austerlitz was much more so) but it was the most decisive, so is rightly remembered. Castillon is not.

Austerlitz, 105,000 hits
Waterloo 1,660,000 hits

Funkodrom
06-02-2003, 11:29:32
A lot of the waterloo hits are places called waterloo, or the Abba song etc.

Castillon should be remembered for several reasons, one of which being the start of gunpowder weapons overwhelming the superiority of the Longbow on the battlefield.

maroule
06-02-2003, 11:45:08
indeed, for the 2,
but if waterloo became such a common name for a station, a university, etc. it's not because it's a quiet belgian town : it was built up by the spin doctors of the time, and the brits have always been better at this marketing game than us (there is an Austerlitz train station, too, mind you)

Funkodrom
06-02-2003, 11:49:49
It's not even where the battle was. It's the name of the village where Wellington spent the night.

We even make the Channel Tunnel trains go to Waterloo station. :lol:

maroule
06-02-2003, 11:59:55
I know, I suffer every time I take the eurostar :cry:
but I smile on the way, when I compare the state of the two national railways...

on Waterloo, I remember the battlefield pretty well, I played countless wargames on it. It's not the most fun battle to play, actually, Quatre Bras, right before, is nicer, and I have good memories of playing Ligny (all in the Clash of Arms serie)

Funkodrom
06-02-2003, 12:01:33
Yeah, fair point. :lol:

Beta1
06-02-2003, 13:19:32
Originally posted by Funkodrom

Castillon should be remembered for several reasons, one of which being the start of gunpowder weapons overwhelming the superiority of the Longbow on the battlefield.

I dunno about that. I was under the impression that the main reason for the downfall of the longbow was that you had to train for years (often from childhood) to develop the strength (and deformed bones) to pull a 6' warbow. And even then you had to train some more to hit anything.

Whereas a gun powder weapon (or even a crossbow) is fairly simple to learn to shoot and theres no requirement for the same degree of strength as a result the fad for training archers died out.

If you look at the rate of fire, range, accuracy and penetration at range (not to mention the chance of blowing yourself up) the longbow would have beaten most firearms. If you think that a skilled longbow man could put out upwards of 6 shots per minute to 300 yards and with the chisel arrowheads penetrate the armour of a (french) knight (or kill the horse) thats alot more firepower than a single musket could managed - and most muskets wouldnt hit a barn at 300 yards. Imagine the storm of arrows from a couple of thousand archers firing like that.

You probably wouldnt get the same firepower from muskets until 2-300 years later...

Resource Consumer
06-02-2003, 13:23:29
I would have skipped the longbow and gone straight to the King Tiger...

maroule
06-02-2003, 13:36:14
fair point beta,
longbowmen were organised in companies of professional soldiers, 'free men', and their expertise was quite unique (i.e. 'the white company' by conan doyle) but they took years to train and were always few in numbers.

Training a crossbowmen company costed ziltch, peasants could use it, and while the rate of fire was much lower, the penetration and accuracy was good.

Funkodrom
06-02-2003, 13:55:45
Beta, it's not muskets, so much it's cannon that are the problem. The bowmen tended to find hedges and things to hide behind to protect them. Although the cannon were slow they could still blow holes in the cover. Also the French not being stupid realised that if they didn't play the game and defended static positions rather than chivalrously standing out in a field to be killed the archers couldn't shoot them as effectively. They basically worked out a way to stop the bowmen working as effectively.

The training was another issue, the French had a few proper bowmen but they couldn't get as many and you did have to train from birth. I think the fact that the 100 years war ended and Edward III died took the impetus from the longbow program.

Beta1
06-02-2003, 14:43:54
Ahh i see cannon not muskets. With you now. I think your right that the french finally realising that charging at massed infantry with large heavy targets (ie heavy cavalry) was a good way to get killed had a lot to do with it too.

Funny how they never realise that in medieval total war. The old spearmen infront and the same number of longbowmen behind them trick always results in a total massacre of any of the cavalry heavy nations. I got into a bizarre game where as the english I had annexed large parts of russia and that tactic caused absolute carnage. The russians sent huge numbers of those heavy horse archers against me and while the spearmen stopped them closing my archers just cut them down. 20 men units of elite cavalry were being reduced to 2 in a couple of volleys.

maroule
06-02-2003, 14:56:04
agreed, that was a major problem
that was changed after the patch, though, and heavy cavalery got much more powerful against spearmen. The patch changed a lot of things and made the game more enjoyable. However, the brit Billmen remained a very strong spear unit, difficult to break down. Longbowmen were efficient, but too expensive and spent their arrows too quickly (you just had to send one sacrificial unit to play porcupine for a while, then charge with the rest).

Beta1
06-02-2003, 17:30:51
maroule - thats why you turn off the fire at will button

maroule
06-02-2003, 18:33:19
ha ha
even though, I'd take my pavise (or even normal xbow) over your longbow whenever

would you care for a multiplayer game on game spy to prove the point? you take the english, I take the French. Fair deal?

Beta1
06-02-2003, 21:18:37
I dont think my 28.8 connection is up to that :)

maroule
06-02-2003, 21:28:25
right
technical excuses :D

Resource Consumer
06-02-2003, 21:31:34
Originally posted by Beta1
maroule - thats why you turn off the fire at will button

Nah. Shoot the bastard.:D

LoD
06-02-2003, 22:23:10
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Even the Pole is laughing at you. :D

Even? Even your fucking so-called 'elite' Ghurkas weren't able to take Monte Cassino! Our boys had to do that :D!

maroule: "Bouvez comme les Polonais" ;)?

Resource Consumer
06-02-2003, 22:30:30
Wot. No turn?

These Poles post a good battle...:D

LoD
06-02-2003, 22:36:47
I've just posted that in Beta1vs me tracker thread - no turn until Friday or, Saturday unfortunately. This is because today I was helping a friend of mine in studying law (she failed the exam so she has to take a retake now). Tomorrow I'm helping another friend linear algebra (he failed the exam as well), and later I'm going on a party. Hopefully I can find some time between the tutoring and the party, but I can't guarantee anything.

LoD
06-02-2003, 22:38:16
Oh, and BTW Keith, it seems to be possible to switch back and forth between TCP/IP and PBEM - because if you save a multiplayer turn, and then load it, the game asks you whether you want to play Hotseat, PBEM or TCP/IP.

Resource Consumer
06-02-2003, 22:47:59
Ah. I have seen that but I thought it had to be saved in that particular format to start with....

All your friends fail their exams? (maybe your advice is not the best.;))

maroule
07-02-2003, 08:15:37
well, they drink like Poles, so...

maroule
07-02-2003, 08:40:33
Here is my debrief of our game with RC (also posted on RC/Maroule thread, but I'll centralise my AAR on this thread)

Set up is countryside, normal hills, normal wood, 44, I’m Russian, he’s German, 4 flags (only 1 big) more or less equally spread on the half way line. Final count 72/28.

Troop selection : the match loser for RC, he bought a LOT of HMG (never saw so many on a map, it looked like a convention), was heavy handed on infantry, two 7.62 infantry canons, and 3 Somua (light tanks), plus some artillery. That was it, nothing heavy. This selection was so unbalanced that I feared during the whole game that a couple of heavy tanks hidden in the middle would burst through my lines. I took a normal selection for ruskies, six T34, two AT cannons, the rest in infantry, and one artillery.

The game : For the first part, RC got the upper hand. His placing of HMG was well chosen, and he had the best part of the map (good LOS to my advancing troops). I seized a small flag early in a bowl depression and secured it with 2 platoons, but for the rest I lost most of my maxims in that phase, and was mostly pinned down near the halfway line. However, the 3 Somua got destroyed, and only one of my T34 : at that point I knew where his cannons where and never got in their LOS again, plus he had no more armour. He had the centre large flag at the time, and got complacent.

The second half was very different, as I leveraged my tanks. They alone got me the covering fire + the thrust necessary to seize all remaining flags, and RC had no AT options. He also had little to mount effective assaults to contest them. When he did it in the last turn to try to challenge flag possession, it was too little and too late and he lost further 5% for additional losses.

My play : again, as with Beta, I liked my infantry play and my basic tank play. I made two mistakes, one trivial (choosing boats in a land map, don’t ask), the other one more serious (my MG play with the maxims was horrendous, and RC took them out of my game as early as the 4th round). For the rest, I played carefully but not really brilliantly.

As with my Beta game, the initial selection determined at least 50% of the outcome, only this time I wasn’t the one to make mistakes. I think that as we (RC, myself and quickly Shak) get more used to the game, the margin for troop selection will be lower, and the difference again will be made more decisively on the battlefield.

Thanks for this very entertaining game, RC, and let's go straight to the return leg...

BigGameHunter
07-02-2003, 22:02:01
You bastards! I tried to play one of you punks this game a while ago, set it up and you blew me the hell off! (I think it was Beta!) Now I come back after a bit of a vacation and you have the audacity to have started a friggin' league!?! How dare you!!!!
So...how's it going? I can't be assed to read all of the goings on...who's the current master, and, more importantly, do you think he can handle a match with one of the original CM purchasers?
Haven't gotten Barbarossa yet...I'm still totally addicted to the 1st one!
C'mon...what do I have to do to get in on this?

Resource Consumer
08-02-2003, 02:35:56
Hey BGH/SS - cool.

I think Beta1 is the head honcho on this one (at least compared to the rest of us losers). The appreciation for this game is growing steadily, even here.

We post added Shakey so I do not see any big problem in adding you in if you can face all these turns coming at you.

You are more than welcome and why not encourage MtG as well to embarass us Euros thoroughly...

Beta1
08-02-2003, 11:30:23
hey BGH - still waiting for your turn from that game!
Where you been anyway?
I think we can squeeze another player in, although I dont know if RC can cope with another pasting like the one maroule gave him (and I'm giving him)

We can fit you in if you want. We started with 3 players and we keep gathering more - at this rate I'll have to start working out average scores as we're all playing at different speeds and have different numbers of games played...

Resource Consumer
08-02-2003, 12:05:02
Also, remember that some of the guys just have CMBB.

Beta1
08-02-2003, 14:47:40
Only shaker only has CMBB I thought so if I just make the score total points/games played then it doesnt matter

Resource Consumer
08-02-2003, 16:46:47
although BGH is at a disadvantage as he doesn't get to play Shakey.;)

BigGameHunter
08-02-2003, 17:33:51
Cool...I may get B2B shortly, but for now I only have the 1st. I can play pretty regularly (I'm playing a friend now and we've gotten a couple of games done without any hitch). Just let me know what you want me to do and I'll get on it!
If it's a hassle, don't bother...
Cheers!

maroule
08-02-2003, 17:35:27
hi BGH,
welcome in our little league

Resource Consumer
10-02-2003, 19:09:35
Originally posted by maroule
indeed, for the 2,
but if waterloo became such a common name for a station, a university, etc. it's not because it's a quiet belgian town : it was built up by the spin doctors of the time, and the brits have always been better at this marketing game than us (there is an Austerlitz train station, too, mind you)

I used to live near Gare d'Austerlitz...

Resource Consumer
10-02-2003, 19:11:11
BGH - you have the setup rights for our game. I'll PM you my e-mail addy.

The Shaker
10-02-2003, 20:46:31
Originally posted by Resource Consumer
although BGH is at a disadvantage as he doesn't get to play Shakey.;)


He'll never be subjected to my 'special' tactics.

The Shaker
10-02-2003, 20:47:09
unless I get CBMO of course :)

Resource Consumer
10-02-2003, 21:02:36
I wonder if you have even got CMBB, the amount of troop activity I can see.

I bet you and LoD must be a real hoot at the insomniacs club...:D

Beta1
10-02-2003, 21:43:38
RC gets another pasting :)

maroule
10-02-2003, 21:49:47
yep
I'm starting to wonder if he's not enjoying it :hmm:

BigGameHunter
10-02-2003, 22:15:49
Great...glad to join the fun.
I'll send RC his turn tonight...
I'm still learning to play humans (the AI is so much livestock to the slaughter anymore) so I think anyone who plays me has a decent chance of making it a good match. There are so many variables in this game, it can often go either way. One bad selection of troops and one bad turn for your armor or some lucky arty strikes can make a huge difference.
Are there any restrictions? I know some people disallow fighter/bombers as being too gamey...also, naval guns and such are disallowed due to their incredible potential for damage...I personally don't care, as long as the map is medium sized or larger..

BigGameHunter
10-02-2003, 22:23:07
OK...looks like I'm sending turns to LOD and RC and awaiting them from Beta1 and Maroule. Cool.
4 games (plus 1 from my buddy as well) should make the wife REALLY happy! ;)
Looks like I'll be creating some game folders in the PBEM folder...easiest way to keep track.
Bring it!

Resource Consumer
10-02-2003, 22:36:41
BGH, paste these bastards for me.:D

LoD
10-02-2003, 22:42:06
Originally posted by Resource Consumer

I bet you and LoD must be a real hoot at the insomniacs club...:D

Actually, my grandmother is sleeping in my room at the moment, so I can't really stay up late :).

And sorry guys, but our games will have to wait until Sunday. I'm going skiing for a couple of days.
Have fun with the tourney you twits!

Resource Consumer
10-02-2003, 22:44:18
I meant the lack of troop activity you dope.

LoD
10-02-2003, 22:52:03
Ah. Since that's the case, in the eternal words of Metallica...

Careful what you wish...
Careful what you say...
Careful what you wish, you may regret it...
Careful what you wish, you just might get it!

Resource Consumer
10-02-2003, 22:55:33
The world is full of Polish optimists:D

maroule
11-02-2003, 08:20:01
Originally posted by Resource Consumer
BGH, paste these bastards for me.:D


delegating menial tasks, I see ;)

Beta1
11-02-2003, 09:39:56
typical consultant

BigGameHunter
12-02-2003, 00:27:10
Just curious...could you guys let me know what your time zone is? That way I can try and co-ordinate sending turns at the most appropriate times...?
I'm US PACIFIC...it's 4:30 p.m. right now.
Thanks!

maroule
12-02-2003, 08:25:08
I'm on GMT+1, France time
When I can, I'm normally able to play a few turns between GMT 5.30 pm and 10 pm, with another quick turn in the morning (7.30 am before work)

Beta1
12-02-2003, 09:51:32
Me,shaker and RC are all GMT, LoD is on Polish time I think (whatever that is)

maroule
12-02-2003, 10:06:45
the polish time is year 1605

BigGameHunter
12-02-2003, 15:57:49
Man...you're pretty funny for a French guy!
:)

maroule
13-02-2003, 08:26:04
Originally posted by Funkodrom
http://apolyton.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1696824


BTW, I just did the search and found 48,000 hits


Google a recherché french military victories sur le Web. 1 - 10 résultats, sur un total d'environ 48,200.

of course, some hits are '... great French nation and was not surprised, especially after reading the world's
thinnest book: "A complete record of French military victories after Napolean ...'

but what can you do about the typical anglo-saxon conspiracies :rolleyes:

maroule
13-02-2003, 15:17:26
ouch, RC got another heavy punishment and beta is 40 points ahead of me :mad:

I'm curious to see what will happen in the lame english match Shakey vs RC (billed as 'the duel of the incompetents' by ITV) :D

The Shaker
13-02-2003, 15:36:32
Noticed on Amazon today that deliver time for CMBO changed from 1 month to 24 hours. So I have ordered it and will be available to be beaten by everyone soon.

RC vs Shakey Ceasefire agreed on turn one for cup of tea.

Beta1
13-02-2003, 15:43:23
thats very civilised - your not both meant to play as the british!

BigGameHunter
13-02-2003, 15:52:30
Ha ha! Hey guys, sorry, but my son had his 1st haircut last night and I went to watch it. I'll send my turns tonight.

Beta1
13-02-2003, 16:01:48
now I've heard some bizarre excuses but thats a new one on me!

Beta1
13-02-2003, 16:02:58
Can you play as the canadians in CMBO - I cant remember.

If so we should get have a Counterglow Canucks v the germans game.

All germans have to wear gasmaskes through the entire game

maroule
13-02-2003, 16:12:56
no jokes on the french soldiers? you're sick?

The Shaker
13-02-2003, 16:30:08
Being sick in a gasmaske is not to be encouraged.

Beta1
13-02-2003, 17:01:56
Wasnt there a smiley for that one.

Canucks v Germans in smiley

:shoot: v :gasmaske:

BigGameHunter
13-02-2003, 19:18:42
Yeah...you can play as English, US, Free French and Polish....hmmm...I'm not sure about Canadians...I swear I've seen a scenario with them....Sherbrook Fusiliers? If you haven't played that one yet, do so...it is a really great scenario. It's at the Scenario Depot. www.dragonlair.net/combatmission ?

BigGameHunter
13-02-2003, 19:22:24
Which reminds me...they have a bunch of scenarios built specifically for play balance in PBEM games...might be fun for us to all play the same one in rounds in the future and see who is Lord and Master?

Beta1
14-02-2003, 10:04:30
Not a bad idea - its just that when we started this we had 1 person with just cmbo, one with just cmbb and 2 with both

The Shaker
14-02-2003, 11:13:25
hHat sounded like fear to me :)

Resource Consumer
14-02-2003, 11:50:25
I understand that you know no fear. On the other hand none of the rest of us know where your troops are...

The Shaker
14-02-2003, 12:11:31
Anticipation, misdirection, stupidity. My three watchwords.

Funkodrom
14-02-2003, 13:33:14
I don't know anyone else who can misdirect themselves as well as you.

Beta1
15-02-2003, 20:45:42
another result added. Shakey nearly caused an upset.

Maroule 59 : shakey 41

BigGameHunter
16-02-2003, 04:45:55
Oooohh....some parity in this league, eh?

LoD
16-02-2003, 09:05:52
Originally posted by Beta1
Me,shaker and RC are all GMT, LoD is on Polish time I think (whatever that is)

Polish time is + sqrt(e^(0)) GMT...

maroule
16-02-2003, 10:22:48
Originally posted by BigGameHunter
Oooohh....some parity in this league, eh?


at the lowest common denominator in that case

maroule
17-02-2003, 09:20:21
Shakey (Russians, 41%) vs Maroule (Germans, 59%), game debrief

I continue with my AARs, as I find the exercise useful to recap what has been learned. Shakey being the official beginner and myself the ‘learned’ beginner with a staggering one completed game under my belt, I did the set up. In all my deviousness, I elected a city map, large woods. Why? Because I had just found out you could transport troops by vehicle, and could drop them rapidly near the flags. I expected Shak to be careful in the initial rounds, and give me the time to rush the flags, while under the cover of buildings and forest. My troop selection was tailored to a city battle, I then though, a good deal of veteran infantry (‘sappeurs’, the ones with flame-thrower teams -FT), 3 tanks Mk4 (crap ones with short gun, I also later realised), some artillery I never used, and some HMG. Plus 6 trucks. Nice, brand new, shining trucks.

Set up : I duly rushed with my swarm of trucks, loaded with eager infantry men, and spread some HMG at the top of the highest buildings. The rest of my troops also sped up and by turn 3 about everybody was duly deployed. The map was small enough so that it quickly became clear the trucks were useless, I could have simply walked all of them. I spread my troops over a large front, expecting two flank attacks. I placed my FT at some corners, camouflaged, but integrated to my defensive line (while they should have been ahead because of their ridiculous range of fire), because the enemy was already in sight and I couldn’t sneak them in open view.

Middle game : Most of the middle game was spent waiting for shak to slowly probe around. One thing he had understood and I hadn’t it that if you shoot repeatedly on building, they’ll fall on the head of their occupants. As he came with 6 T34, he had plenty of fire power to do so. Two large buildings indeed fell on my soldiers, to great damages. Even worse, a tank commander hidden behind got killed by the indirect blast. Only positive aspect, the rubbles offered great hiding space for the few survivors, especially considering the smoke it produced (also cutting LOS, which was an advantage for me). Fortunately, he did not pursue the flat city tactic and started a two pronged attack, on my left and center. The left one was easily repelled, as it was only made of a few platoons and two light vehicles. The center one had more punch and most of the T34 behind. Only part of it, though, was really concentrated on where it mattered.

End game : final thrust by Shak waking up to the fact he might just snatch a good result and pushing hard. Half of my FT get finally in range and do some roasting. My AT teams (2 guys with some sort of very primitive panzerschreck) showed how useful it is to know your weapons well : even a flank shot at 100 meters could not hurt T34 (‘97% of chances to touch, destruction chances none’), rendering them totally useless. At this point, I was still 65% to 35% victory, so I decided that blowing up his tanks would get me more points. The soldiers rose from the rubbles, hurled themselves at the T34, which were right there, 20 meters from them, buttoned up. So close, yet so far away. Grenades missed, turrets rotated, and 3 platoons were annihilated. In the meantime, a single tank got close to the main flag on the very last turn, contesting it and depriving me of the points. End result 59 to 41, minor victory quite close to a draw.

The players
Shak : well done for a beginner, careful advance, good use of the tanks, but bad use of infantry and attack not focused enough. As the attacker, and with the benefit of this uncomfortable experience, I think I would have selected one main zone of attack (the large flag), pounded all buildings to oblivion and get there with most of my infantry. If Shak had concentrated its fire, my lack of reserve would have cost me the game. Of course, none of us knew that when we started the game.

Myself: Weakest game so far, which proves that you can regress in CM if you are complacent. I thought this would be easy meat and I got punished for that, just as in real life, which is great : it further proves how finely balanced this game is.
The non exhaustive list of my mistakes : troop selection (useless trucks, crap MK4 models), no defensive strategy (bad command lines, troops thinly spread with no reserve, one single line of defence –no depth-) bas use of my units (FT too far from the action, I used only half of them, too static for tanks, bad positioning of arty that I did not use), overall bad understanding of city combat, and of the vulnerability of buildings.

I apologised to Shak, because by getting complacent and anticipating an easy victory, I was disrespectful of him.

I also told him that since I now respect him, I will do my best to utterly slaughter him in our next game :D

Beta1
17-02-2003, 10:31:51
sounds like fun. I hate infantry FTs there just too slow and short ranged. The only use I have found for them is setting fire to buildings before the enemy arrive - you cant enter a burning building...

maroule
04-03-2003, 09:20:59
what is this prickbot doing on our thread? Fuck off.fir

Resource Consumer
04-03-2003, 16:49:52
What a rude way to refer to Beta1!

maroule
04-03-2003, 17:01:19
our favorite british punch bag is back! :bounce: I've been celebrating for 24 hours, it was getting sad to slaughter Skaker, I need more diversity

For the record, Beta1 is the chickenprick, the prickbot thankfully disappeared

maroule
05-03-2003, 13:53:16
BTW, I'm preparing a CG review for CM, but I'm struggling to find references to fellation...
I might be able to stick one it, though, as a special hommage to Venom, to close the cycle ;)

Resource Consumer
05-03-2003, 16:01:52
Why not stick one in Venom? I am sure you'd both enjoy it....

maroule
05-03-2003, 16:03:28
there will be a lot a dead russian soldiers tonight to even dare suggest that

prepare yourself for a nice 80%+ defeat ...

Resource Consumer
05-03-2003, 16:18:02
I already had actually. This one is not going very well.

Beta1
11-03-2003, 09:50:51
OK MDA has now joined this little punch up

Due to the number of participants this league is now closed to new entrants.

Otherwise we're going to be playing this one forever.

maroule
11-03-2003, 09:55:07
great, welcome MDA

tell me wich version/which game you have, and PM me your email, I'll send you the set up of our first game

The Shaker
11-03-2003, 10:42:32
That's good

I'm sure MDA was getting really fed up of my slow turnaround at present :)

Resource Consumer
11-03-2003, 10:45:38
MDA PM me too with details.

The rest of you - I am out of circulation tonight and tomorrow - turns wioll be sent on Thursday. Frday and SUnday look good to catch up a bit though.

The Shaker
11-03-2003, 10:45:56
Oh yeah Beta, I am compatible with everyone now.

maroule
11-03-2003, 10:52:02
Shaker is an universal plug?

BigGameHunter
11-03-2003, 15:44:51
OK...guess I'm waiting for a setup turn from MDA.
Please, put some contour on the map!

Resource Consumer
11-03-2003, 16:41:42
You made our map so flat... (I think)

Beta1
11-03-2003, 17:15:04
OK added the matches for shakey now hes compatible

BigGameHunter
11-03-2003, 20:04:51
Originally posted by Resource Consumer
You made our map so flat... (I think)
Did I? Hard to remember, since I never see any turns!
;)
Awaiting MDA setup...

BigGameHunter
11-03-2003, 20:06:03
Will send setup to Shaker, once I've determined email.

The Shaker
11-03-2003, 20:33:22
is that some sort of subtle hint?
:confused:
:p

LoD
11-03-2003, 22:07:58
Sorry, guys, I've been a bit burned out lately... I hadn't really had the energy to play those turns... I will do that, once I charge up a little...
(and no maroule, this has nothing to do with what is happening on the northern flank at the moment :p).

Resource Consumer
12-03-2003, 09:46:41
You are toast, mate...

MDA
13-03-2003, 13:23:19
Originally posted by BigGameHunter
Did I? Hard to remember, since I never see any turns!
;)
Awaiting MDA setup...

All right, all right, don't get your panties all bunched up. :)

Never occurred to me to make a setup file on my own, even though that's what Shaker and I did.

It's morning here, so you'll have to wait 10-12 hours.

Obligatory trash talk follows:

Resistance is futile.

Not very original, but I'm still half asleep.

Wife gives Exit/graduate Seminar today.
She didn't sleep well, so I didn't sleep well. :sleep:

BigGameHunter
13-03-2003, 15:46:19
I will terminate you!

maroule
13-03-2003, 17:07:48
at least you'll get to terminate someone...

MDA
13-03-2003, 17:33:22
He's really just looking for anyone to send him a turn.

BigGameHunter
13-03-2003, 19:16:49
Well, there is a good chance I will be home alone this weekend...which means there is great potential for a TCP game if anyone is interested?

maroule
14-03-2003, 08:41:13
a repeat of last time would be waaaaayyyyy too early for my girlfriend

Beta1
14-03-2003, 09:48:46
sorry - planning on getting very pissed this weekend, will be around for some email turns though

BigGameHunter
14-03-2003, 15:36:10
Well fine!

maroule
28-03-2003, 14:35:01
hey, Beta, you've finished your game against Shak, so update the results, lazy chicken bastard

MDA
28-03-2003, 15:27:45
LoD, BGH and I haven't even started our games yet. By the time we play I may actually know what I'm doing.

maroule
28-03-2003, 15:50:13
well, LoD and BHG are still at large for me too..

The Shaker
28-03-2003, 16:19:25
Same here.
I say we burn them.

BigGameHunter
28-03-2003, 16:24:15
Sigh....I've been frantically trying to prepare for the arrival of #2 son...preceded by weeks of illness and psychotic wife behavior. Throw my mixed feelings about playing a war game during a war into the mix and I've just been "out of the loop".
I'm really itching to play the turns...just haven't found the time, as my usual habit is to play them all at once.
If I can do that, or squeeze one or two in over the next few days, I should be back on track...but a new baby in the house and me playing PC games are probably not going to do wonders for my reputation at home...we'll see.
I'm sure you can carry on without me for a bit!

maroule
28-03-2003, 16:41:39
:cry: just when I was slaughtering you...

BigGameHunter
28-03-2003, 20:39:52
Yeah...sorry...just have a lot going on in my life right now....maybe you'll see something tonight, if I can stay up late enough.

maroule
28-03-2003, 23:54:41
I was just kidding, you have more important stuff to attend to...

BigGameHunter
29-03-2003, 00:04:42
Don't worry...I won't fail you, France.

maroule
29-03-2003, 12:34:03
good,
but remember I'm just maroule, I don't own or represent France...

MDA
29-03-2003, 20:23:51
maybe you should.

maroule
30-03-2003, 12:28:55
they wouldn't let me
bastards

BigGameHunter
30-03-2003, 21:07:41
OK...turns sent...sorry for the break! I think I must have lost our latest turn, MDA, so I sent you my purchase again...
Let's do this.

BigGameHunter
30-03-2003, 21:10:05
I'm pretty sure I sent RC and LOD their turns long ago...if either need the last one again, let me know.

Resource Consumer
31-03-2003, 10:06:46
OK. I hope to maybe check my mail and fire off my turns tonight. Failing that then tomorrow is definite.

maroule
31-03-2003, 10:16:39
good lord, a miracle...

Resource Consumer
31-03-2003, 10:34:40
I have been away from the computer for a week, you know;)

maroule
31-03-2003, 10:49:31
I can't even start to imagine what it's like

Resource Consumer
31-03-2003, 10:50:18
bliss

Resource Consumer
31-03-2003, 17:13:40
Originally posted by BigGameHunter
I'm pretty sure I sent RC and LOD their turns long ago...if either need the last one again, let me know.

BGH - I seem to have screwed up somewhere. Can you send your last one again.

Thanks

maroule
31-03-2003, 17:30:55
Originally posted by Resource Consumer
bliss


liar
it can't be
it can't be, right? :nervous:

Beta1
31-03-2003, 18:53:28
Hi Guys! I'm Back!!!

Resource Consumer
31-03-2003, 19:00:13
Time for us all to leave then...

maroule
31-03-2003, 19:22:16
bring on the chicken, said the frog

MDA
31-03-2003, 20:36:01
Received 3 turns in 30 minutes today :)

maroule
31-03-2003, 21:11:35
where is mine :hmm:

The Shaker
31-03-2003, 21:13:06
it ran away.

MDA
01-04-2003, 05:01:46
I was at work. Four turns sent.

maroule
01-04-2003, 10:04:20
hey lazy chicken
game against Shaker done,
maroule russian 74%, Shaker german 26%, total victory
(beta, you did the addition wrong, I'm not at 242 points)

it's not a bad result for Shaker, who had a nightmare first 15 turns (we were looking then at a 90/10 result) and then worked hard and successfully to destroy most of my tanks (5 T34 went up in smoke). His infantry was a bit wasted, however, without appropriate support (BO is forgiving for that, BB is not). played well at first, and then did a few very foolish moves (like send an unsupported T34 behind his lines). Shak was like the living dead, getting beaten up but always rising up again till the end.

Shaker, I think your intial choice of troops was lacking something: you should have had at least two good expensive all around tanks, and less half tracks and canons.

Thanks for the game.

Resource Consumer
01-04-2003, 10:25:26
I for one am still not convinced about having any light tanks and light armour - that said, I still seem to include some...

Beta1
01-04-2003, 10:31:00
adding it up again now

I like a few light vehicles, normally a couple of ACs with light AT guns on them.

Anyone whoes run into a swarm of stuarts or M8 MHCs in CMBO rapidly learns that you need something that fires fast and often to kill these little buggers.

In CMBB their seems to be less point, HTs are usefull as buses, AC as scout but even the puma isnt as usefull as it was in BO

Beta1
01-04-2003, 10:38:41
OK fixed the scores - that will teach me to try and do anything when jetlagged - god only knows what I did in those turns last night!

maroule
01-04-2003, 10:45:07
well, nothing for my game, since I havn't received anything :cry:

The Shaker
01-04-2003, 10:54:23
Originally posted by maroule
hey lazy chicken
game against Shaker done,
maroule russian 74%, Shaker german 26%, total victory
(beta, you did the addition wrong, I'm not at 242 points)

it's not a bad result for Shaker, who had a nightmare first 15 turns (we were looking then at a 90/10 result) and then worked hard and successfully to destroy most of my tanks (5 T34 went up in smoke). His infantry was a bit wasted, however, without appropriate support (BO is forgiving for that, BB is not). played well at first, and then did a few very foolish moves (like send an unsupported T34 behind his lines). Shak was like the living dead, getting beaten up but always rising up again till the end.

Shaker, I think your intial choice of troops was lacking something: you should have had at least two good expensive all around tanks, and less half tracks and canons.

Thanks for the game.

Yep, Bad bad few turns. I blame it on the fact that
a) Having seen Beta use Halftracks against me in that game I thought they were quite nifty
b) I was like a kid in a sweet shop at the selection screen again
c) I had a plan, and no back up plan.

Idea was basically to have two wide attacks at the wide flags in 2 groups of halftracks +men, then sweep wide, whilst my centre held and picked off anything that popped it's head over the hill.
Couple of guns covering the flanks, couple of anti-tank rifles with the squads at the flags.
(guns were too low a calibre..something i hadn't yet worked out...rifles were useless except against the T70...something I now know :) )
couple of infantry guns- cos I didn't know what they were.
Few random tanks, flak gun (which didn't last more than a turn) to try out.

It failed because they all got blown up when maroule ran at them with his tanks, whilst his light tanks ran at the centre and held off any advance that way.
Then his troops (littered with HMG) took up posistion on the crest and woods and pounded me into submission.

Late in the game (having had beta mention that smoke is great) I used smoke, which,
had I used it earlier, would have meant a chance of escaping from the free roaming tanks on my left, and possibly given me more of a chance of pushing across the line. By the end I was out of ammo, outflanked, and relied heavily on running towards the flags, then sneaking back to the woods when they got shot at :)

MORE BIGGER TANKS NEEDED.
Being the hermans, getting 400 pts tanks to 700 for the russkies does kind of limit your tanking abilites though. One tiger/panther wipes out most of your points.
However if they can beat up the others (without getting attacked from 3 sides) it is probably worth it.

Beta1
02-04-2003, 14:25:01
Trick is to use that 300 points well, a 88 is always worth a gamble if the map is likley to have any good LOS, some of the HTs with short barrel 75s or flak guns are suprisingly good at frawing fire away from your tanks (and can kill quite a few tanks from the side due to their C rounds), Shrecks are lethal from short range and often a 75mm AT gun paired with a HT to tow it can cause some nasty suprises when it appears fireing sideways across the map some distance outside your setup zone.

Dont be afraid to have 75mm size guns pushed around too. They move slowly but then if theres a covered approach to the top of a hill with good views its worth it even if they arrive in turn 10.

maroule
02-04-2003, 14:30:58
I've never used the towing thing with a cheap half track, but I'll try it next
Shak did it with some success in our last game

Beta1
02-04-2003, 15:33:36
Just remember to check the transport class first - I've picked a gun thats too big to tow on a kubelwagen before.

Trucks, gun tractors and some tanks can also tow guns.

Resource Consumer
02-04-2003, 15:39:16
so you need a bigger number to tow a smaller or equivalent number?

Beta1
02-04-2003, 15:51:02
Cant remember off the top of my head. Have a look at which way the numbers go and figure it out. (or read the manual)

MDA
04-04-2003, 16:31:10
Huge email problems last two days, trying to fix - sending/forwarding mail from work isn't working on new computers, nor is "leaving mail on the server" option. I am not liking the switch to Outlook (from Eudora). It doesn't reassure me to hear that most viruses are made to exploit its many "features".

Maroule, I do have your turn, I'll probably have to take it home on a CD today.

I may need a few whipcracks to get turns moving for the next week or two, I'm in the process of moving my wife to Maryland.

On the bright side, I'm posting from a comp with a new 18" flat screen.

Beta1
04-04-2003, 16:37:47
Now thats an inovative approach to making more time to play CM - is their room to move my girlf to maryland too! :)

Am having email problems too - my email forwarding doesnt seem to be working at the moment. I'll see if I can sort it out. If not expect a new email address shortly.

maroule
04-04-2003, 16:55:31
and to sum up problems, I'm going to be quiet for a few days from monday on

BigGameHunter
05-04-2003, 07:09:14
Seems like I'm the only one with my poop in a group all of a sudden.

BigGameHunter
05-04-2003, 07:12:48
sent turns to all I think...

BigGameHunter
05-04-2003, 07:16:43
Ooops..need RC's email address.

Resource Consumer
07-04-2003, 15:43:52
Originally posted by Beta1
(or read the manual)

:eek:

MDA
08-04-2003, 16:01:57
Originally posted by Beta1
Now thats an inovative approach to making more time to play CM - is their room to move my girlf to maryland too! :)

I just knew there was a silver lining somewhere :)

maroule
09-04-2003, 08:44:11
it's funny how an educated guy like Beta keeps making the same spelling mistakes, your instear of you're and their instead of there

is that the english version of dyslexia?

Beta1
09-04-2003, 08:50:40
Funnily enough my old boss used to complain about my spelling too....

But then again from this is coming from someone who uses instear instead of instead!

Its more the english version of lazy-git-exia

maroule
09-04-2003, 09:01:08
mine is a typo, if I keep doing it in 235 successive posts, I'll swallow my words :D

BigGameHunter
10-04-2003, 07:57:14
OK...turns sent to RC and MDA. Nothing from Shaker, Maroule or Beta as of late, and I'm sure you can guess the status of the game with LOD.

Resource Consumer
10-04-2003, 08:38:16
That's what happened in WWII. Germany just got bored with waiting and invaded.

maroule
10-04-2003, 08:46:11
i'm still offline on CM, I'll play my turns this WE

BigGameHunter
10-04-2003, 15:18:54
Hey, far be it from me to chastise anyone @ CM turns...just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page. Besides, I have no burning desire to re-visit that humiliating massacre any time soon.
:)

maroule
10-04-2003, 15:21:32
I do, I'm looking at your inf squads rushing at me in the center with great interest.... nice shower of arty, in the meantime...

MDA
10-04-2003, 15:28:36
Make sure you get behind your ears.

BigGameHunter
10-04-2003, 20:12:33
Arty is my only hope now...my last tank is about to bite the big one, methinks.
:(

The Shaker
10-04-2003, 20:50:35
your tanks have teeth?

maroule
11-04-2003, 07:52:29
fuck, my flat still looks like Beyrouth with all the works going on, and my room is still being repainted

I hope I can access my computer this week end to play some turns. I need to smash the whole lot of you to tiny bits to relieve the stress of urban life. With that in view, my doctor ordered a ew game with Shaker for therapy.

Beta1
11-04-2003, 09:06:24
Originally posted by BigGameHunter
OK...turns sent to RC and MDA. Nothing from Shaker, Maroule or Beta as of late, and I'm sure you can guess the status of the game with LOD.

Eh? I thought you had the turn.

I'll resend my latest turn this evening - maybe you could do the same.

maroule
11-04-2003, 09:23:19
beta, there's a new result to register, Shak's victory against RC (see the thread 'shame')

Beta1
11-04-2003, 09:56:24
cool - I was out of the lab yesterday so I missed it.

Resource Consumer
11-04-2003, 10:09:35
I think I can get the wooden tank

maroule
11-04-2003, 10:23:27
If you're Wales, Shaker is Italy, so it will be a close run thing
I'm definitively France, fucking inconsistent, and Beta1 is a bit like England, clean, good, but generally hated for his recent run of form. That would make BGH Scotland (nice, ponderous), and LoD Ireland (crazed approach, often falling short). Not sure about MDA yet.

MDA
11-04-2003, 13:51:39
I would be Enigmatic then.

Beta1
11-04-2003, 14:05:05
Well some of your guys are about to become enigmatically dead - the turn I played this morning had a 2/3 of one of your platoons standing around in the open. Shortly to be lieing around in the open wondering what hit them.

maroule
11-04-2003, 14:20:40
don't be unduly worried, MDA, that's classic Beta1 propaganda

he keeps threatening me with mass destruction or brilliant strategic reverse attack moves every turn

Beta, would you consider a career in political advertising? there are opening with the Iraqi government

BigGameHunter
11-04-2003, 14:50:05
Hmmmm...the last turn I sent you was my "move" turn directly after the loss of my Puma and the imminent firing at your Firefly?
Maybe it didn't get through or I sent it to your former/crap addy?
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudge. It's hard to keep track of all these emails, especially with the unholy pile of shit that is AOL.
Uh...I'll have to check again tonight, or see if I can get it to go from work again?

Beta1
11-04-2003, 15:06:12
Trying to remember which bit of the turn we're at.

I saw the movie and I think it went straight to my orders turn, which means if you made you orders then it should be a video for me next.

Best thing to do - I'll resend my last file when I get home this evening and if it gets to you before you get home see if its later than the most recent one you have. If not send me the latest thing you have.

Or something like that :)

Maroule - heehee, We have chased the infidel invaders all the way back to their edge of the map, may their stomachs burn in hell! We are destroying them but everytime we stop firing they come back again but we are in control of our destinies and we will prevail!

BigGameHunter
11-04-2003, 15:40:46
OK...just checked...the last turn I sent was 21b on the 6th of April. I sent it to the bigfoot address.
Does that clear anything up?

MDA
11-04-2003, 15:56:07
Beta: My troops are standing around in the open?

You must mean the half squads I sent out as bait. The rest of my footsoldiers haven't moved since setup.

Beta1
11-04-2003, 17:49:21
BGH - okay. last thing I have was 20b. I resent 21a so ignore that and resend 21b please

MDA - That lot over on your right must belong to someone else then :) And the light armo hiding behind them and the comet thats setting fire to buildings on the other side etc.

BigGameHunter
11-04-2003, 22:36:43
I sent it again to the bigfoot addy.
What's your new address?

LoD
12-04-2003, 17:03:18
Originally posted by maroule
If you're Wales, Shaker is Italy, so it will be a close run thing
I'm definitively France, fucking inconsistent, and Beta1 is a bit like England, clean, good, but generally hated for his recent run of form. That would make BGH Scotland (nice, ponderous), and LoD Ireland (crazed approach, often falling short). Not sure about MDA yet.

Who are you calling short :mad:?

maroule
12-04-2003, 17:27:48
the D is for De Vito, no?

maroule
12-04-2003, 17:28:24
don't grumble too much, Ireland is one of the most endearing team around

MOBIUS
17-04-2003, 22:44:10
OK you bastards, I've finally got myself settled back in London and am ready to play!:shoot:

Can I make up for lost time?:)

Think of me as the morale boost player - because whoever is worst out of you lot is going to be streets ahead of me!:lol:

Who wants to play and can I fit into the league - pretty please...:)

maroule
18-04-2003, 07:35:03
the tournament is closed
but I'm in favour of starting a ladder, as we discussed. We *just* have to devise the way to go about it.

Moebius, we can have a couple of games that will later count for this ladder.

Tell me if you want to do the set up, which game and version you play, if you're a beginner or intermediate, etc.

I normally play BB, meeting engagements, 1500 points, 25 turns variable.

The Shaker
18-04-2003, 09:44:40
so choose BO, defending, 500 pts 10 turns :) in the snow

The Shaker
18-04-2003, 09:47:05
:lol: I just noticed the average victory score Beta added on.

RC Average (total defeat)

maroule
18-04-2003, 09:59:06
:p
RC will get a slightly beter average after our game ends

nice addition from Beta
of course he only did that because he didn't like seeing me top rankings...

The Shaker
18-04-2003, 10:08:41
Has he still not beaten you yet?
Goddamn it.

maroule
18-04-2003, 10:28:49
he won our first game fair and square (but it was my very first game against a human player)

right now we're turn 21, I think, he's putting a lot of pressure on 1 flag, the other one is not (yet) contested

MOBIUS
18-04-2003, 15:50:27
Originally posted by maroule
the tournament is closed
but I'm in favour of starting a ladder, as we discussed. We *just* have to devise the way to go about it.

Moebius, we can have a couple of games that will later count for this ladder.

Tell me if you want to do the set up, which game and version you play, if you're a beginner or intermediate, etc.

I normally play BB, meeting engagements, 1500 points, 25 turns variable.

Sounds good - I have BB and I'll leave you to set up the game if I may. I am definitely a beginner as I am still struggling to even beat the AI convincingly on a regular basis...

Ready when you are!:)

Beta1
19-04-2003, 08:05:58
Originally posted by maroule
:p
RC will get a slightly beter average after our game ends

nice addition from Beta
of course he only did that because he didn't like seeing me top rankings...

thought it would be amusing.

Mobius - if you want a game send me a setup file, I'll take any side and settings (but please not haevy fog)

I've just started one against shaker and its wet ground and visibilty 85m...You guys just like playing in ridiculous conditions

BigGameHunter
23-04-2003, 08:44:47
OK
SENT: Maroule, LOD, BETA
NEED: Shaker, RC, MDA

maroule
23-04-2003, 12:06:14
Originally posted by maroule
:p
RC will get a slightly beter average after our game ends


no! he won't! muaahauaahahaauahahaha

BigGameHunter
23-04-2003, 14:56:51
You must be in hog heaven, Maroule. My last gasp in our game made the Charge of the Light Brigade look like an epic victory.

Do we have cease fires/surrenders in this league? I'm tired of tripping over the bodies of my dead.
:(

maroule
23-04-2003, 15:25:50
surrender is alt U but I don't know the effects (probably 90 to 10 victory for me)

cease fire I have to accept, and I won't right now as I don't have 2 flags I can easily take in the next 5 turns (and we have 15 left to play)


just surrender :D

Beta1
23-04-2003, 15:27:14
If you guys want to ceasefire/surrender that fine - maroule and I agreed a ceasefire on turn 27 of our first game when it became clear that nothing was going to happen at all for the rest of the game.

BigGameHunter
23-04-2003, 22:10:17
Well, at this point he'll probably kill everyone I have left...will that be a worse score than 90-10, or by attrition can I help that out? I don't know if I even have the capacity to kill anything left.

I don't want to get gamey, but if it is hopeless, why wouldn't someone just withdraw and run around the map for 15 turns, trying to keep as many men alive as possible?

maroule
24-04-2003, 08:51:59
indeed, you have two options

-the surrender, we swap 2 more turns and we start another game. You loose 90-10 I think, but check for certainty

- you try to keep on for 15 turns, trying to limit casualties, hence withdrawing your remaining infantry in woods (mainly in the center, the rest is as good as dead). You hope my arty (which is starting to fall now) and fresh reserve infantry squads, backed by my 1 still mobile panther, can't find/hurt you. The other units hide and hope I won't find them.

The second option appeals to my sadistic tendencies, but the choice is yours.

Beta1
24-04-2003, 10:40:49
If you surrender all your squads are captured which is big points for maroule. If you withdraw them from the map then you lose the points for them surviving but maroule doesnt gain any. With the score around 90:10 it probably wont male a lot of difference...

BigGameHunter
24-04-2003, 15:14:52
Hmmm...I may try and run around a bit, just to see what happens, as we seem to know the outcome of surrender.
Those flags can be fickle, so maybe I can capture one accidentally. :)
Though I am pretty eager to try again, as the Axis, vs. Maroule. When you lose all of your armor right off, the game is pretty much over without lots of AT weapons, which I didnt' buy.
I made some very bad vehicle selections.

maroule
24-04-2003, 15:26:15
true, but especially because I chose to buy very little but high quality armour (plus 2 AT guns) against your choice of more but more vulnerable

It also became telling because you commited them too early, without proper infantry recon. In that situation, and despite your infantry push being well executed, you're in a bad bad bad situation.

Let's go for a few more turns, you might actually scrape something out of it.

Beta1
24-04-2003, 17:03:35
Added the latest RC/maroule result.

RC only needs another 0.25% on his average to move from total defeat to only a major defeat!

Maroule still piling up the points but I now have 2 games in hand.

Shaker doing well for a new player. The TLA brigade still to record any results.