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Nav
16-12-2002, 15:05:39
As a Christmas present to myself. :bounce:

Considered getting an X-box for ooh 5 seconds.

Ordered Pro Evo Soccer 2 with a second controller today! :bounce:

Funkodrom
16-12-2002, 15:51:09
Yeah!

BoltyBoy
16-12-2002, 15:55:20
Hey don't get Pro Evo Soccer2 !!! Oh too late :(

Bought it yesterday and played with some mates, took it back to shop today and got FIFA 2003 instead.

The immediate issue that put us off was that you can't pick real world teams, eg Arsenal is called "London". The player line-up is the same as Arsenal but I guess for license reasons they can't call the team Arsenal. The same applies for all the teams in the game. You also only get something like 30 teams and it doesn't take a genius to figure that if the teams are based from around the world then there'll be no playing a Premiership or Serie A season if there are only like 4 teams from each footy playing nation. Compare this to FIFA 2003 which has 350 official teams from 16 nations.

This point alone is enough to brand the game a dud in my opinion.

Now as for graphics, I feel they look like what you'd expect from a game made a couple of years ago.

Then there's the commentating. Two commentators who not only constantly talk over the top of each other but they'll also do this while music is playing, say when a goal is scored. So the result is just sound mayhem.

I guess we didn't really give the game enough time to see how it played but with the above points considered, after one game we decided to swap it for FIFA.

But the guy in the Game shop in town preferred Pro Evo 2 so I guess if you don't mind playing as teams like Umbria or London then you may be happy with it.

Funkodrom
16-12-2002, 15:58:19
Well you've missed out because despite those, admittedly annoying, points PES2 is a much, much better game than FIFA 2003. The gameplay is far superior. And Nav knows how it plays 'cause he's played it at my house. You can edit the team names to be correct.

Would think that gameplay was more important than team names.

Vincent
16-12-2002, 16:01:28
PES2 seems to be a lot nerdier then

Funkodrom
16-12-2002, 16:03:23
Although they only have limited teams, those teams really do feel right. All the players feel like they play exactly like their real life counterparts, helped by the Championship manager player data but also the game engine which transfers those stats so accurately into the game.

The only problem I've found is that you can score goals with Emile Heskey which is clearly crap.

Oh and PES has been developed from the International Superstar Soccer range, it's mainly an international football game. The club teams are a recent addition.

Funkodrom
16-12-2002, 16:05:32
Originally posted by Vincent
PES2 seems to be a lot nerdier then

A game of PES2 feels like a game of football.

A game of FIFA 2003 feels like a good football computer game.

maroule
16-12-2002, 16:19:14
boy, funko, you're taking this very seriously...

Funkodrom
16-12-2002, 16:31:55
Unlike you and Total War? :D

maroule
16-12-2002, 16:35:01
ahah
touché

BoltyBoy
16-12-2002, 16:49:33
Well I'm going to have a crack at FIFA 2003 with some mates tonight and will see for myself. Have to say that playing a league game with all the teams and players is quite an important aspect of the game. I don't want to play a league made up of teams from various nations.

And the graphics looked inferior to FIFA 2002 let alone 2003 I'd guess.

I must admit I did choose PES2 because I feel EA Sports games are too arcade like but...well I shall see tonight.

Nav
16-12-2002, 16:53:42
My plan is to play it obsessively then beat everyone on the face of this earth! ha ha ha! :nervous:

maroule
16-12-2002, 16:55:50
FIFA 2003 is great (but I can't really compare with PES2, dunno it), but it takes some time to master it, though, esp. the freestyle controler, and headers

some players (like Zidane) are amazing

BoltyBoy
16-12-2002, 17:00:19
Is Freestyle for taking eg free kicks?

Funkodrom
16-12-2002, 17:05:03
Also...

After ONE GAME you swapped it?!

How did that give you enough time to get the feel of how it played?

Venom
16-12-2002, 17:14:58
You can't be real world teams? That completely sucks ass.

BoltyBoy
16-12-2002, 17:38:33
Yeah I know you can't judge after one game really but the issues I mentioned were enough for me to stick with what I knew...ie I know FIFA has all the teams and I've enjoyed previous EA FIFA games so it's bound to offer a good level of enjoyment for all the family.

If PES had offered those immediate things I noticed then I'd certainly have given it more time.

And there is the issue that I was also playing the latest SSX Tricky with mates that evening so PES had a small window of opportunity to impress and today was my Xmas shopping/exchange crap games day.

King_Ghidra@home
16-12-2002, 18:15:46
YOU CAN CHANGE THE FUCKING NAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!
YOU CAN CHANGE THE KITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU CAN CHANGE WHATEVER YOU WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU TOOK IT BACK AFTER ONE GAME?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?! :cry: :cry:

OH MY GOD ARE YOU A MILLIONAIRE OR SOMETHING? :eek:

Funkodrom
16-12-2002, 18:29:10
Originally posted by Venom
You can't be real world teams? That completely sucks ass.

The teams are right, the names are wrong.

You can change the names, as I believe K_G might have pointed out.

Venom
16-12-2002, 18:38:09
That's still too much work.

BoltyBoy
16-12-2002, 18:42:22
And can you add more teams? From what I could fathom there were only like 5 Premiership teams.

I don't really fancy buying a game and having to manually create 15 teams plus players and their skills when I can buy one that already has it all!

Am I a millionaire? I took the game back and exchanged it for another...bloody hell I wish I knew it was this easy to make a mil, I should have done it ages ago!

Funkodrom
16-12-2002, 18:44:19
So the quality of the actual game doesn't matter, just the teams that are available?

PES2 is basically an international football game with an international club Cup element added in.

And who cares what the teams are called really? I very rarely play with the club teams though.

Venom
16-12-2002, 19:32:52
Life, and games, are in the details.

King_Ghidra@home
16-12-2002, 20:23:56
in this game the details are in the play not the presentation

so rather than curse the game and admire the options you worship the game and deal with the options

Venom
16-12-2002, 21:04:49
It's not perfect then. Not by having to make me do extra work or thinking.

King_Ghidra@home
16-12-2002, 23:10:26
we never said it was perfect, we said it was the best

and it is

Venom
17-12-2002, 00:35:06
I find myself doubting you now.

BoltyBoy
17-12-2002, 01:04:39
Hmmm well I just spent several hours playing FIFA 2003 with some mates and have to say I hate the gameplay. I thought 2001 was ok gameplay wise so this is a degredation.

I can't put my finger on what it is about the game but it just kind of feels like there's little scope for variety in a match. All the goals seems to be scored in the same way. The AI players always do the same thing to get the ball off you and invariably they will. Argh I am dissapointed. But I still say that having proper leagues is important - for me anyway. Such a shame, I was expecting more from 2003, or at least as good as 2001!

Asher
17-12-2002, 01:12:34
Got a PS2 2 years ago, sold a PS2 1 year ago. :beer:

Shining1
17-12-2002, 01:55:12
Football is bad for you...

Venom
17-12-2002, 02:09:11
And 1 year ago he got adopted by Microsoft.

King_Ghidra
17-12-2002, 08:45:43
Originally posted by Venom
I find myself doubting you now.

After the 'total war incident' that's hardly surprising

maroule
17-12-2002, 08:50:15
aah, the 'total war incident'
that's part of the folklore now

"The incident became history, then history became legend, and legend became myth"

King_Ghidra
17-12-2002, 08:52:56
But now we have you maroule

the bastard child of Venom and the Total war debate

Darkstar
17-12-2002, 08:56:33
Maroule seems more like the bastard child of Chris and Roland... not of Venom and anyone. Too wordy to be closely related to Venom.

maroule
17-12-2002, 09:01:27
Precisely, I'm wordly because subconsciously I'm rejecting my father

many kids of low life scum try to elevate themselves through education

or become severe alcoolics like daddy

Funkodrom
17-12-2002, 09:22:31
Originally posted by BoltyBoy
Hmmm well I just spent several hours playing FIFA 2003 with some mates and have to say I hate the gameplay. I thought 2001 was ok gameplay wise so this is a degredation.

I can't put my finger on what it is about the game but it just kind of feels like there's little scope for variety in a match. All the goals seems to be scored in the same way. The AI players always do the same thing to get the ball off you and invariably they will. Argh I am dissapointed. But I still say that having proper leagues is important - for me anyway. Such a shame, I was expecting more from 2003, or at least as good as 2001!

*must not say told you so*

You have basically summed up the problems with the FIFA series that PES doesn't have.

In PES2 you can score any kind of goal... but only if you do something good. Every time you score a goal it's an achievement, either you've done something great or your opponent has made a mistake. Just like a real top quality football game. You can score headers, volleys, 30 yard blistering drives, free kicks, tap ins from balls pinged across the 6 yard box, brilliant individual dribbles... but you'll find it almost impossible to find a method that works every time. You have to understand the game and take advantage, or make, your own opportunities where you can.

Nav
17-12-2002, 10:11:40
Are the goal celebrations even better in 2003 this time? :)

*anxiously awaiting PES2*

BoltyBoy
17-12-2002, 10:33:14
How can a company have had so many years to develop a footy game and still produce such a poor effort, indeed poorer than previously in terms of gameplay...this makes me sad.

Funkodrom
17-12-2002, 10:47:26
They know they don't need to bother with gameplay because all people think is important is having the correct leagues?

maroule
17-12-2002, 10:48:54
I have no vested interest in defending EA

but to get the record straight, it took me at least 20 hours to play FIFA03 properly, and that's on the back on countless hours with the previous ones.

You can score goals in extremely diversified ways, and indeed you have too ; keepers and defenders are VERY good in professional level so only a diversified tactic works. And I do exult everytime I score.

the point is : don't judge fifa03 until you've spent a good deal of time on it : start on semi-pro and quickly work your way up to pro. I can tell you you'll loose a lot more games than you'll win.

Funkodrom
17-12-2002, 10:54:11
I played PES for several hours a week for an entire year and was still learning.

maroule
17-12-2002, 10:56:20
did you try with your gloves off?

Funkodrom
17-12-2002, 11:01:16
There's so much depth to the play, tactics etc. etc. etc. that I'm not sure you could ever master it as such. You can always improve or learn new moves, tactics, ways to vary the play. You could spend a few weeks experimenting with a sweeper rather than a flat defence for instance.

maroule
17-12-2002, 11:03:48
only CM commands this type of crazed worshiping

we'll burn you, heretic

Funkodrom
17-12-2002, 11:09:11
ISS - PES series is as good as the CM series for giving you the feel of football.

King_Ghidra
17-12-2002, 11:21:48
it's true, we don't make this stuff up, it really is that good

maroule
17-12-2002, 11:22:04
BURN BURN!!!!!

Funkodrom
17-12-2002, 12:01:54
We aren't making it up.

I bought a PS2 specifically so I could play PES.

Nav
17-12-2002, 12:09:52
I bougjt a PS2 so I could play that and GTA: VIce City. :)

King_Ghidra
17-12-2002, 12:35:55
aye that game is definitely on the xmas list

and no bloody hardware issues to worry about like my pc version of gta III :bash:

Nav
17-12-2002, 16:15:53
apart from aiming, which is nigh on impossible...

Ultimate game: Championship Manager with Matches displayed via the PES2 engine. :D

Beta1
17-12-2002, 17:12:47
Ultimate Game : Championship Manager with Matches displayed via the PES2 engine, with machine guns :D

Sean
17-12-2002, 18:13:45
As someone who has played both extensively, allow me to set the wrongs to right.

FIFA 2003 is a good game. The Freestyle control adds another element to the game, although it is damn fiddly on a keyboard. I don’t care much for having the Norwegian league or the Austrian league. The graphics are good, but as always the animation lacks something. Also, the players look like they have shoulder pads. Commentary is crap, Motty and McCoist. I enjoy playing this, but wish it had more depth. I have more trouble with the controls than the AI on Pro mode.

PES2 is an excellent game. It has the classic controls from before, refined yet further. Free kicks are just as good as FIFA, despite not being able to choose where to strike the ball. Dribbling, passing, and tackling—the bread and butter of football matches—are a lot more natural and intuitive. The presentation is awful, and the commentary is even worse than FIFA’s. I haven’t even played this single player, only multi-player.

Sean
19-12-2002, 12:33:44
Does anyone else have the PC version of FIFA 2003? I played it online yesterday, was quite fun. Maybe even better than playing on the same PC, because you can relax and just focus on the game.

Funkodrom
19-12-2002, 12:48:09
No.

Why buy a PC football game when I have a PS2, PES2 and some friends?

Sean
19-12-2002, 12:50:48
Well, I didn’t exactly buy FIFA :nervous:.

fp
19-12-2002, 20:26:48
aaahh PES2:

truely awful commentary.
stupid default team names. :(
"Oranges053"? .... nuff said. :gasmaske:
pointless lack of options - I want Instant Replay dammit!

All of this and it still manages to be best game ever made! :beer: :love:

When I grow up I wanna be just like PES2.

Nav
19-12-2002, 22:22:15
Just scored my first PES2 goal... a darting run by Heskey who crosses across the face of goal, Owen lunges for the ball, connects and scores. Excellent game.

Commentary is bad. It's good in German though. :D

fp
19-12-2002, 22:25:15
Try the Master League mode ... it's the nuts.

Funkodrom
20-12-2002, 09:21:49
Originally posted by Nav
Just scored my first PES2 goal... a darting run by Heskey who crosses across the face of goal, Owen lunges for the ball, connects and scores. Excellent game.

Commentary is bad. It's good in German though. :D

I remember my first PES2 goal. Early in my first game, against Shakey, Diouf sets of on a stunning run through Shakey's entire defence and spanks one into the top corner.

BoltyBoy
20-12-2002, 10:17:19
Was this while playing as Saxons versus Marmadukes or Noddy's Special 11 v Scotland? Notice how I only mention ficticious teams.

Funkodrom
20-12-2002, 10:19:19
It was Senegal against someone.

YOU CAN CHANGE THE NAMES!

fp
20-12-2002, 14:21:03
Not realising that PES2 is the video-game equivalent of a multiple-orgasm should be a criminal offense.

Fucking Denmark just beat me on penalties in the semi-final of the World Cup. I always lose shoot-outs.

fp
20-12-2002, 14:25:50
The standard of the AI on the highest difficulty setting is impressive. Even after 5 years of playing this series I still only win about 75% of games between evenly-matched teams.

Funkodrom
20-12-2002, 14:31:42
Originally posted by fp
Not realising that PES2 is the video-game equivalent of a multiple-orgasm should be a criminal offense.

True.

The Shaker
20-12-2002, 14:49:51
Originally posted by Funkodrom
I remember my first PES2 goal. Early in my first game, against Shakey, Diouf sets of on a stunning run through Shakey's entire defence and spanks one into the top corner.

This never happened.
:bash:

Good thing about PES2 is that I now seem to be able to score free kicks.
Exquisite freekicks infact.
None of that short pass cheating, just bash em into the top corner.

Funkodrom
20-12-2002, 14:53:48
Was that the second goal then? Or the third? Or the fourth?

The Shaker
20-12-2002, 15:00:30
It may have been the fifth.

Funkodrom
20-12-2002, 15:04:33
Nah, I'm sure I only beat you 4-0 in that first game. :D

The Shaker
20-12-2002, 15:10:27
I take pride that you have never beaten me (alone) since.*

*disclaimer...this may be a lie

Funkodrom
20-12-2002, 15:10:55
It is a lie.

Debaser
20-12-2002, 15:35:24
I remember my first PES goal. I was Argentina, Funko was a shitty Eastern European team like Latvia or something. I crossed the ball into the box. There was a bit of a defensive mix-up, Funko tried to punt the ball clear, I bounced back off one of my strikers perfectly into the path of another of my strikers, who happened to be about 6 yards out and unmarked. Easy.

The Shaker
20-12-2002, 15:40:12
That's all your goals.

Funkodrom
20-12-2002, 15:46:58
First goal, only goal. Same thing.

Venom
20-12-2002, 17:09:06
I also protest that you mentioned having friends in another post. That's bullshit.

Sean
20-12-2002, 19:21:59
Originally posted by The Shaker
Good thing about PES2 is that I now seem to be able to score free kicks.
Exquisite freekicks infact.
None of that short pass cheating, just bash em into the top corner.
Bash? Bash?! You do not bash, you flick the ball delicately into the corner. Simpleton.

BoltyBoy
21-12-2002, 02:44:14
Manchester Hot Spurs versus Tottenham United.

Bill Gates Special Favourites all Boys Squad V The Ploughman's Arms Sunday League Up the Apples 'n Pairs Alright me ole mucker Chicken Vindaloo FC

So I'm just annoyed at not giving this game more of a chance before exchanging it OK!

The Shaker
21-12-2002, 10:36:14
It's like Match Day all over again.

MDA
21-12-2002, 16:00:04
Fucking Denmark is the best team name I've seen here.