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FunkyFingers
29-11-2002, 15:45:36
Hello

As I now have a "Universal" DVD Player, the Pioneer DV-656A, I am starting to scrape together a collection of hi-res recordings.

I can of course get SACDs AND DVD-A. The few SACDs I've managed to get so far I'm extremely impressed with, but I've just spotted this bad-boy for 12.99 on play.com

Linkin Park: Reanimation DVD-A

What's the album like? I really like Hybrid Theory, is this worth purchasing?

Most of the SACDs I have so far are jazz recordings, one of which I have also on CD. I have to say the quality is almost a night vs day difference. I've also borrowed a Joe Satriani - Engines of Creation, which is really growing on me I have to say, so am thinking of getting his "Strange Beautiful Music" on SACD.

Anyone else here got SACD or DVD-A?

Scabrous Birdseed
29-11-2002, 15:51:46
No.

*End Is Forever*
29-11-2002, 15:52:22
Me neither.

FunkyFingers
29-11-2002, 15:53:45
Which neither?

*End Is Forever*
29-11-2002, 15:59:34
Neither neither.

FunkyFingers
29-11-2002, 16:12:24
There are three potential answers to my post

Resource Consumer
29-11-2002, 16:14:43
nope, no and not?

PosterBoy
29-11-2002, 16:16:33
double vaginal double-anal?

FunkyFingers
29-11-2002, 16:20:19
That's the one :lol:

Asher
29-11-2002, 16:38:06
Joe Satriani - Engines of Creation
I actually have that one. That's all I own right now, since it's hard to find them here. :(

FunkyFingers
29-11-2002, 17:21:46
Asher - There are some really good tracks on that one I think, track 4 is brilliant.

Where are you looking to buy them from? Realistically the Net is the best place at the moment as "bricks and Mortar" shops either just don't carry them, or they're mixed up in the main CD shelves so you can't find them anyway...

www.digitaleyes.net
www.play.com
www.amusicdirect.com
www.towerrecords.com
They all actually have SACD as a proper section in it's own right so you can search within them.

What SACD player do you have? What's it all hooked up to?

FunkyFingers
02-12-2002, 09:35:38
Well, got the Linkin Park Reanimation on DVD-A.
Firstly, it's 44.1khz/24 bit stereo, 48Hhz/24 Bit Surround (if you've got DVD-A), so not really the "hi-resolution" that "A" allows, but hey, still better than CD...

There are 3 videos on here, the best one being Points of Authority, a kind of animated Robot Death Fest.

The remixes themselves? Well, some are really quite good, Points of Authority being one of the best ones. Some aren't that great though X-Terminator not being my favourite.

The disc navigation is a bit annoying if you want to use it.

On the whole? Well, not a bad package, but perhaps could have done with some actual new tracks, although maybe that's missing the point. Release some new material!

Ted
03-12-2002, 03:32:47
I'm not overly a fan of the new Linkin Park stuff. Frankly I prefer their orginal album. The remixes just don't do it for me, and the rest just doesn't strike me as good.

As far as SACDs... I *really* don't want to buy one. I think they're a slap in the face the consumer and were intended more as a way to try to prevent piracy than increase quality. Considering DVD-V can produce 24/96 just as easily.

Do you think the surround makes a difference for the Linkin Park Reanimation? I think that's the only possibly redeaming factor that the new format might have, but I've yet to hear an artist who has really used them t oany potential at all.

Honestly though... I've reallya got to wonder if that "invisible" watermark is really all that invisible.

FunkyFingers
03-12-2002, 09:45:41
I don't actually have a surround-sound setup currently, but the difference between SuperAudio CD and plain vanilla cd is immediately obvious to me on my system. I'd say the difference between DVD-A and CD is less obvious, as the DVD still has that, what I can only describe as a metallic veil over the music which you get with CD which is totally absent from SACD.

The stupid thing about this whole "DVD-Audio" arrangement is that, yes as you comment, a standard DVD-V player should be able to output a 96/24 PCM signal, there basically aren't any DVDs that have a 96/24 track that can be accessed by a standard DVD-V player. Queen's Night at the Opera is the only exception that I know of.

If you buy pretty much any DVD disc for your standard DVD-V player, what you get is a Dolby Digital Lossy Compression soundtrack, or a slightly less lossy DTS soundtrack.

For example, the Linkin Park DVD-A has the following:
48/24 5-channel surround sound Packed PCM (DVD-A)
44.1/24 Stereo PPCM (DVD-A)
Dolby Digital 5.1 (DVD-V)
Dolby Digital 2.0 (DVD-V)

Your plain old DVD-V player could actually, in theory, output the bitrates of the top two, but it's been engineered so you can't, which I agree is a deliberate market manipulation strategy.

I've yet to see a proper 192/24 DVD-A disc on the market, but I do have a 96/24 recording of some Piano music, which is really rather good.

SuperAudioCD is a completely different kettle of Fish as far as I'm concerned as it Just Sounds Better, and there's far more music available on it, plus the majority of the discs are compatible with your bog-standard CD player.
The only bummer as far as I can see is that, for the moment, you can't get a DSD Digital output from the digital out on your player as Sony doesn't want you to be able to get was is basically a studio-master quality digital source.

I've got:
Pioneer DV-656A DVD-A/SACD player
Arcam Alpha7 SE CD player
2x Arcam 9 Amps, bi-amping:
PMC FB1 Monitors

Ted
03-12-2002, 14:49:37
Hmm. I might have to hear that for myself. I'm just loath to buy into a product that is so fucking straightlaced anti-consumer.

Though I bet one of the key elements there aren't any DVDs that have the 96/24 track on a standard DVD-V player is more an issue of control than it is of ability.

And I'm not sure on all my facts/figures but I think for an artist (esp. independant artists) it's far more economical to go with the DVD-V format anyways. I can't imagine what tools you'll require for SACD. Which I honestly think has a bit more to do with Sony et al. trying to lock out the music market. After all, if they can really make SACD a standard then they can prevent a lot of artists from authoring simply because of cost. (this isn't a very realistic expectaion. Just as an author doesn't require their own studio to record they don't need their own equipment to author, and nothing is to say the price of such authoring tools won't come down... but still I bet it was a thought in some execs mind.)

"The only bummer as far as I can see is that, for the moment, you can't get a DSD Digital output from the digital out on your player as Sony doesn't want you to be able to get was is basically a studio-master quality digital source. "

I really don't think sony is ever going to let you get a digital output. For the same reason you can't upload via USB with a MiniDisc. It simply gives too much control in the hands of the users for perfect copies. However... this is really kind of a stupid argument against piracy, cause 95% of the pirated stuff out there is lousy 128kb mp3s anyways.

Nice! I like your speakers. I went for a suround sound stuff a few years ago and haven't upgraded that I use for Audio. B&W 603s.

I want some Nautilus 801s though =] *sigh*

PosterBoy
03-12-2002, 17:01:18
My ears are so shot that I couldn't give a shit about new fangled hi quality sound systems.

FunkyFingers
03-12-2002, 21:10:03
Ted - the speakers are truely awesome! Since I got these I've started hearing all sorts of things going on with hi-fi which I used to think was complete bollocks, such as the difference between Cd players, DVD players, DA converters and even, dare I say it, cables! There's so much detail in the midrange and the "soundstage" is pretty convincing. They've got fantastic bass extension too.
PMC have brought out a "bookshelf" version of the FB1 (fucking big ones), called DB1s (dinky buggers) which are by all accounts just as fantastic.
I've also had the pleasure of auditioning their MB1s (mighty bastards) and they are truely something else! The overall family sound though is not dissimilar to the FB1s which is quite impressive.

I recently borrowed a Genex (http://www.genex.co.uk) GA8 professional D/A converter, (which you're unlikely to have heard of unless you're a professional studio recording engineer) - this is what the professionals use to actually record in DSD and up to 192/24 in 8 channels.

I plugged it in to the Digi out of the Arcam and truely heard a difference between the two, even on plain ol CD output (this was before I got the Pioneer DVD/SACD)!

I don't know whether to call SACD anti-consumer is really fair - if you want a better sound quality medium, you can have it. If you want to copy it, you can copy standard CD quality digitally by chucking it in a standard CD player, or you do it analogue on to tape (decent tape does sound waaaaay better than crappy MP3, which I loathe with a vengence) :p

Authoring with SACD has got pretty simple this year as all the major workstation editing suites now can do the same sort of editing with DSD as they can with PCM. DSD digital converters are of course in great demand.

I totally agree with you on the 96/24 issue with DVD-V players, that's so obviously market control, because basically all the millions of DVD players out there can do it already, but they won't let you. I think that's far more insiduous than Sonys new format.

Incidentally, the new Pioneer DV767Ai has got digital output which sends DSD and upto full bitrate DVD-A, it's just that it's encrypted and sent through a Firewire connection, so you'll only be able to use it with "suitable" DA converters with the necessary built in decryption. Again they're trying to stop you getting your hands on the full bit rate audio!

Having said that, I know that it's possible, on Sony SACD players at least, to solder on a standard coaxial digital output to the circuit board contacts marked "DSD out" and there you go... :D

I guess it's all a question of what you want at the end of the day. I don't think CD is that great and I absolutely hate MP3, so I'm quite happy to pay a bit extra for something that will get me better quality music, so long as the artists are there on that medium. That to me is the biggest problem, there is still very limited repertoire on both of these new media. One reason why I went for the "universal" player was that so I don't get caught out if there is a loser in the presumably obligatory format war.