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View Full Version : Am I too argumentative?


Scabrous Birdseed
18-10-2002, 20:03:50
Apparently some people have suggested my debate technique is ruinging the forum. Since the only reason I'm doing it is 'cause I quite enjoy the repartee, and I'm happy if everyone's happy, should I tone it down? No seriously. I can stay out of trolling threads and debates about bands I dislike. If that's what you want.

Caligastia
18-10-2002, 21:20:01
Its not so much that youre argumentative, its that youre a complete and utter bastard.;)

*End Is Forever*
18-10-2002, 22:00:34
And a Scandinavian one at that! ;)

PosterBoy
18-10-2002, 23:45:43
I'm in love with you

PosterBoy
18-10-2002, 23:46:28
And Rick Waller

Provost Harrison
19-10-2002, 00:24:31
No, Johan, of course not, Johan.

No, I don't mind because most people here can give as good as they get...

TAZ
19-10-2002, 14:44:01
Yes you are a bastard but not of Ming proportions...

paiktis22
20-10-2002, 13:57:26
I't just that sometimes you are a little bit boring but that's not your fault.

I just don't know about many of the bands you write about.

Provost Harrison
21-10-2002, 22:05:23
You should find out about them packets ;)

King_Ghidra
22-10-2002, 08:28:50
this should be a poll

i vote banane

paiktis22
22-10-2002, 17:28:58
Perhaps I should find out about SOME of them...

I took the tip of Johan and downloaded some version of some song which he said was great and I thought it was a kick ass rock version of an older song I had heard earler in the radio (don't remember it now).

It turned out it was a melancholic piano performance. After that I'm a bit sceptical of his suggestions.

paiktis22
22-10-2002, 17:43:04
It was No fun by The Stooges.
Still looking for the newer kick ass rock version.

Scabrous Birdseed
22-10-2002, 19:02:31
What's wrong with the original of you want good, hard, proto-punk rock? I thought the cover was quite a well-done reimagining of a great song.

Lazarus and the Gimp
22-10-2002, 21:14:37
Whereas if the original had been a melancholic piano piece you'd have hated it.

Scabrous Birdseed
22-10-2002, 22:22:43
I quite like melancholic piano pieces if they're done right.

Provost Harrison
23-10-2002, 00:22:10
:lol:

Here we go again...

Scabrous Birdseed
23-10-2002, 00:25:13
But he was trolling meeeee!

King_Ghidra
23-10-2002, 08:00:37
:lol:

paiktis22
23-10-2002, 16:45:28
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
What's wrong with the original of you want good, hard, proto-punk rock?

Simply, it is too old. That's the feeling you get after listeing to the new version. Like comparing bongos banging with a fully equipped drums kit.
Same goes for the guitars (distortion, quality of sound, "powerfulness") as well as for the voice (more raw and pissed than Iggy's).

I think it was a local band BTW, so I doubt you'd know them. I don't know them either :(

Provost Harrison
26-10-2002, 13:28:33
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
But he was trolling meeeee!

No, carry on, by all means. I find it quite entertaining :D

Chris
31-10-2002, 20:42:08
Am I too argumentative?

No, you just have rotten taste.

Venom
01-11-2002, 03:26:17
I'll start posting in this forum so Scabby looks better.

Resource Consumer
01-11-2002, 11:28:11
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Apparently some people have suggested my debate technique is ruinging the forum. Since the only reason I'm doing it is 'cause I quite enjoy the repartee, and I'm happy if everyone's happy, should I tone it down? No seriously. I can stay out of trolling threads and debates about bands I dislike. If that's what you want.

Certainly not - post away. I don't see anybody complaining and I certainly am not.

protein
01-11-2002, 11:35:38
Like a shock jock, we love to hate your views on music.

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 11:44:58
I think that sometimes you have some really good things to say but the way you put them, patronisingly and offhandedly dismissing any music you don't like with a bunch of music critic cliches means that most people just focus on that and ignore what you have to say.

You come across as incredibly narrow minded about music when you are actually one of the people who's going out looking for different stuff.

Sean
01-11-2002, 11:47:20
The only thing I find annoying is criticising a group/genre outright without having actually listened to it. The only way I can really loathe something is if I’ve been subjected to it too much.

protein
01-11-2002, 12:51:52
Like garage.

The Shaker
01-11-2002, 12:58:29
ewwwwwww

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 13:01:01
Originally posted by protein
Like garage.

Yeah both rock and the other kind.

Scabrous Birdseed
01-11-2002, 13:49:35
I always try to be contrary and provide interesting non-congruent views, I can't stand people claiming exactly the same things. If anything, the "I hate country and soul" white boy is the cliche...

Scabrous Birdseed
01-11-2002, 13:50:56
Like in this music mag I'm reading: The "Rock Heretic" claims that Jim Morrison was shite. What's heretical about that? It's a totally standart clap around the back old-boy opinion! Geez.

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 14:01:19
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
I always try to be contrary and provide interesting non-congruent views, I can't stand people claiming exactly the same things. If anything, the "I hate country and soul" white boy is the cliche...

Of course, that's why I use it. I'm self parodying. Except I don't hate soul. I normally say I don't like country OR western or something.

Anyway I don't think you are disagreeing with me. To me it's not what you say normally that I argue with it's the way you say it. I just troll back in return.

Saying Jim Morisson was shite isn't heretical. I agree with that, it's been said so many times over the years. At the moment you'd have to say something like QotSA are terrible or Nirvana were shit and overrated.

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 14:02:39
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
I always try to be contrary and provide interesting non-congruent views, I can't stand people claiming exactly the same things. If anything, the "I hate country and soul" white boy is the cliche...

And did anyone claim you were a cliche?

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 14:03:10
AND is avoiding being a cliche a valid reason to like or dislike music? I don't think so.

Scabrous Birdseed
01-11-2002, 14:06:53
Not really, but it's a valid reason to look at what you're doing, and ask yourself if you're really doing the clichéd thing 'cause you like the music or just because of surrounding cultural values, to avoid being a townie, because you don't like commerciality, because you don't like the lyrics? I don't see any music as being outside my cultural sphere per se.

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 14:17:21
If I was interested in doing the clichéd thing I'd be listening to Garage Rock and R&B rather than happily disregarding whatever's in fashion this week and just listening to what I like. Sometimes the two coincide. Mostly they don't.

I like cheesy '80s metal riffs in a totally no ironic way. That's never been cool or culturally acceptable.

Similarly even before I became aware of the terrible culture of violence that surrounds UK Garage I was offended by its horrible musical butchering of the lowest forms of vocal driven house/R&B and commercial rap. The lyrics are shallow and primitively put together. The beats, especially, really annoy me by having structure that just feels so wrong it genuinely inspires me to violence and the rapping is generally technically weak whilst the singing is often the stuff that sounds good but is technically easy. See protein's brilliant Craig David parody for a great example.

OTOH after I listened to The Streets a few times I started to really like him. Cool lyrics, nice laid back tunes and something intelligent going on with the way it all fitted together.

Scabrous Birdseed
01-11-2002, 14:27:27
That wasn't an attack on you it was on people in general.

protein
01-11-2002, 14:28:46
Yeah.

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 14:32:21
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
That wasn't an attack on you it was on people in general.

I was using myself as an example. The thing about your references to people in general is that individuals often take them personally because they are included in people in general.

Scabrous Birdseed
01-11-2002, 14:35:14
Sometimes I feel I'm the only person with balanced tastes in music. :(

Scabrous Birdseed
01-11-2002, 14:38:12
Not that they're necessarily good or broad. Just balanced.

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 14:39:54
Tastes are an individual thing. You can't make value judgements on what other people like or don't like.

What you can do is try and expose people to things that you like and see what they think of it. Doing it in a judgemental way by telling them that what they are listening to and enjoying is shit and they should listen to something else 'cause it's better doesn't work.

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 14:40:47
Hmmmm... X-post.

In that case why should tastes be balanced? Why can't someone just like one kind of music if that's what they want to like?

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 14:42:25
Plus balanced is only balanced in your opinion of balanced. You don't listen to music from a whole slew of different genres that would make your tastes more balanced. You are concentrating on western music of the last 50 years.

Scabrous Birdseed
01-11-2002, 14:43:02
I didn't say they should be balanced. I'd just like to find someone, somewhere with a similar range of tastes to my own.

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 14:50:33
Debaser said yesterday that he thinks you like good music. I think the two of you have bits of stuff you like in common. I do as well, especially early proto punk even if I don't agree with you about a lot of this revival stuff. That Jamaican thing you put on LWP was good. In fact the only things I really disagree with you on are new R&B, Country and what constitutes good rock.

So possibly the question is that if people are actually liking a lot of the same music as you are but constantly arguing with you in the music forum then it might be something to do with your debating style rather than the music you like.

Debaser
01-11-2002, 14:51:43
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
I didn't say they should be balanced. I'd just like to find someone, somewhere with a similar range of tastes to my own.

so you could argue about details instead of broader topics?;)

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 14:52:20
Oh and you look for different things in hip hop to me.

Scabrous Birdseed
01-11-2002, 14:54:04
Originally posted by Funkodrom
So possibly the question is that if people are actually liking a lot of the same music as you are but constantly arguing with you in the music forum then it might be something to do with your debating style rather than the music you like.

Which is what I claimed in my original post surely? Stop confusing me. :clueless:

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 14:56:39
Kind of, I'm just saying that you can either genuinely bring music you like to other people's attention or enjoy the repartee but probably not both. I don't particularly care either way. :D

King_Ghidra
01-11-2002, 15:18:00
Originally posted by Funkodrom


Similarly even before I became aware of the terrible culture of violence that surrounds UK Garage I was offended by its horrible musical butchering of the lowest forms of vocal driven house/R&B and commercial rap. The lyrics are shallow and primitively put together. The beats, especially, really annoy me by having structure that just feels so wrong it genuinely inspires me to violence and the rapping is generally technically weak whilst the singing is often the stuff that sounds good but is technically easy. See protein's brilliant Craig David parody for a great example.


the minute you insult an entire genre you just open yourself to the same criticism as you make of snappy/scabrous

the singing is technically easy? what?
the lyrics are shallow and primitively put together?

all of those criticisms could be levelled at any number of musical genres (including your favourite ones). Maybe you didn't notice but this is music not philosophy class.

I worry about anyone in this forum who starts trying to generalise about genres, give up, jack off, you're not getting anywhere

protein
01-11-2002, 15:20:19
I think you just think that your taste is far superior to everyone elses. I'm sure if you ask everyone else they will say that their taste is the best but they would be wrong obviously because I have a far superior knowlege of music production and taste.

And I am very attractive too.

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 15:22:44
the minute you insult an entire genre you just open yourself to the same criticism as you make of snappy/scabrous

the singing is technically easy? what?
the lyrics are shallow and primitively put together?

all of those criticisms could be levelled at any number of musical genres (including your favourite ones). Maybe you didn't notice but this is music not philosophy class.

I worry about anyone in this forum who starts trying to generalise about genres, give up, jack off, you're not getting anywhere

Of course but I'm not asking people to critique my debating style. :beer:

protein
01-11-2002, 15:24:57
my brain hurts.

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 15:25:37
"the singing is technically easy? what?"

Get Rob to give you his Craig David singing demonstration.

protein
01-11-2002, 15:26:26
All over your boink

Funkodrom
01-11-2002, 15:34:25
:lol:

protein
01-11-2002, 16:01:05
All garage singing is done through Antares Autotune anyway. The only people it could possibly impress are those who think that the human voice can do those awfull things.