View Full Version : Oh no, Iíve paid too much, I havenít paid enough

03-10-2002, 22:25:59
I bought three new albums today. New! This is the first time I’ve bought a new album in quite a while, so I was at the mercy of the record shops for pricing Do You Know Squarepusher (Sqaurepusher), A Hundred Days Off (Underworld), and Open Heart Zoo (Martin Grech). DYKS came with a bonus CD, Alive in Japan, and Open heart Zoo is asupposedly a limited edition, but I still feel I paid over the odds for these CDs, at £37 for the lot. I’m used to buying CDs for £10 maximum unless it’s rare or a double album, so even this seemingly small amount extra makes me feel a little wasteful.

03-10-2002, 22:28:49
Neat-o, something’s up with my font there. Just goes to show why one should use the decimal entites (only vB won’t let you do that in the title… ).

03-10-2002, 22:52:50
Can I vote for C, which should be:-

"Yes, Evil Record Companies are price-fixing and one should never pay more than £10, but music is beautiful and essential and worth every penny."

03-10-2002, 22:56:09
I was making you choose!!

03-10-2002, 22:59:23
Ok, B. Just as long as your realise that almost everything you buy suffers the same massive price mark-ups. Music is no worse than anything else really.

03-10-2002, 23:01:45
No, really?

03-10-2002, 23:07:02
In fact, I might start up a Why Must I Pay So Much for Cheese! thread. :lol:

I might even inclued some kind of vote (never done that before).


03-10-2002, 23:09:53
Originally posted by Debaser
In fact, I might start up a Why Must I Pay So Much for Cheese! thread. :lol: :lol: genius :rolleyes:.

No longer Trippin
04-10-2002, 01:06:33
Actually supermarkets only make about 2 to 4% on the products they sell in the United States at least. The food market is competitive, with many sources, so wholesale to distrubution prices are low, and that is passed to the consumers due to the number of differenr chains of stores which compete with each other... music on the other hand, is controlled by only a very few major labels, the rest just have to fight to get their stuff into the store, which sometimes they can't, as some companies, in order to buy at a lower price, sign exclusive agreements with the major labels saying they won't publish indie titles. That's why the only places with cheap music (at least in the States') have only major record labels, and no minor/independent labels, or very very few to say the most of it. Also there aren't many chains of stores dedicated to just music (in the states' again), only three that I can think of (and they are hideously expensive because they can be, because they carry all titles), and the rest of the music is sold by the likes of walmart, best buy (which also carries most labels, but has the price almost as bad as the dedicated stores), circuit city, etc.

04-10-2002, 01:13:41
Originally posted by No longer Trippin
Actually supermarkets only make about 2 to 4% on the products they sell in the United States at least.
Yes, but how much money is made elsewhere? c.f. dairy farmers getting screwed over by the distributors.

04-10-2002, 03:28:02
What song is this threadtitle a parody of?

04-10-2002, 09:16:22
Screw the poll, what's the new underworld album like? I demand a review.

Goat Spawn
04-10-2002, 09:28:56
REM, losing my religion (just replace the work Paid, with Said)

Originally posted by Asher
What song is this threadtitle a parody of?

04-10-2002, 09:30:17
What are you doing in the music section? I thought you didn't like music any more.


Goat Spawn
04-10-2002, 09:40:50
I still rock muthafcuker!

(only never on week days)

04-10-2002, 09:50:23
Or at the fucking weekends.

What are you doing this weekend other than not rocking?

04-10-2002, 09:56:44
He's being the smiley on the right maybe?

04-10-2002, 10:01:58
Goat Spunk

04-10-2002, 10:04:02
And a name is born.

Goat Spawn
04-10-2002, 10:14:53


Scabrous Birdseed
04-10-2002, 10:27:10
Here in Stockholm the absolutely cheapest (indie or not) music can be bought in independant, one-man stores who keep costs down by cutting down on marketing, rent and other stuff that the high-street, big stores can't. The fact that they're all located on a single street in town (well, okay, like 12 of them) also means they're insanely competetive and probably earn absolute peanuts.

I've seriously considered starting one. :D

04-10-2002, 10:34:56
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Screw the poll, what's the new underworld album like? I demand a review.
You know what, that’s the only one I haven’t really listened to yet. I can tell you this so far, though: it does sound like Underworld.

04-10-2002, 10:39:25
OK well when you do...

Or maybe you could do a short piece on each album to make 1 review?

Scabrous Birdseed
04-10-2002, 11:00:22
Does anyone want a review of the following albums that I've bought in the past few months, that are less than a year or so old?

Ms. Dynamite - A Little Deeper
Mando Diao - Bring 'Em In
The Catheters - Static Delusions and Stone-Still Days (Old!)
The Hellacopters - By The Grace of God
Mary J Blige - No More Drama (Old!)
Primal Scream - Evil Heat
Bounty Killer - Ghetto Dictionary: The Art of War/The Mystery (Oldish)
several compilations

04-10-2002, 11:00:49
can't we just enjoy our music and games these days without being pressganged into sweating over reviews? :)

04-10-2002, 11:00:52
Why not?

04-10-2002, 11:01:30
Damn x-post.

SATAN, see my gaming stories post. Reviews, schmeviews.

04-10-2002, 11:02:33
The Hellacopters please!

*End Is Forever*
04-10-2002, 11:32:35
Yup, Hellacopters sounds okay. Better than the rest of them!

04-10-2002, 11:35:58
No, I want the Primal Scream one.

04-10-2002, 11:46:45
Every time I come into the music forum this fucking thread reminds me of that infuriating REM song. ARGH!

04-10-2002, 21:22:50
aHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Okay got that out of my system.

I hate paying loads of money for music , but I also hate really good albums being put in a bargain bin for less money.

I guess it's all because we all know the well deserving artist get piss all

04-10-2002, 23:41:29
Well, I still can’t say much about them, because I am a sad bastard. I have half-heartedly listened to the Squarepusher and Underworld albums a couple of times, but I’ve had that Martin Grech album on pretty much constantly. And I don’t know why I like it.

05-10-2002, 08:55:38
Just make some shit up like the rest of us do.

Provost Harrison
07-10-2002, 22:16:06
Oh no, Iíve paid too much, I havenít paid enough

Ah, alternative lyrics to REM's 'Losing My Religion' :lol:

07-10-2002, 22:22:44
Well spotted.

07-10-2002, 22:30:36
Yes, only 3 days later than Goat Spawn spotted it.

07-10-2002, 23:33:04
I half-spotted it...I recognized it from somewhere but couldn't place it.

Provost Harrison
08-10-2002, 22:20:52
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Yes, only 3 days later than Goat Spawn spotted it.

What? Do you think I read all the posts in a thread or something? :cute:

Yeah, CDs are way overpriced, this is why I think record companies (especially RIAA) want their cake and eat it. They get killed because people are downloading music because CDs are overpriced, yet they still expect to be able to keep their cartel. They most certainly aren't playing fair. And if they aren't, nor should the consumer in this case. It is competition, after all, they are trying to restrict it.

22-10-2002, 10:25:39
CDs sometimes are overpriced, if you buy them from the wrong places. Shop around you monkeys, there will always be someone who will sell it cheaper than the major high street stores, or it's in a sale, or get it off the internet.

Try buying a classical cd - a proper one, well recorded by a decent orchestra/choir these days can set you back £20 or more, but again that's not so bad if it's worth it.

You boys moan about paying even £10 quid for an album, but I think that's actually quite cheap, especially if it's a decent one. You'll get a lot more pleasure and use out of a cd than 3 pints of lager for example, or 2 gallons of petrol.

22-10-2002, 10:31:59
Because the CD costs 50p to produce and typically the band get about 50p from the sale.

22-10-2002, 10:32:28
And £10 is fine. It's £16 albums I object to.

22-10-2002, 14:04:59
My wife and I joined one of those CD clubs where you can buy lots of CDs for very cheap. You only have to pay full price for a few, and the rest you can buy for only a few dollars each.


22-10-2002, 14:58:43
If you can get the same disc for £10 that someone else is selling for £16 quid, there's no problem is there.

I'm now looking at buying SuperAudio CDs and DVD-Audio discs, they're a fair bit more pricey than your average crappy cd.

22-10-2002, 16:57:35
What are superaudio CD's?

22-10-2002, 17:27:24
Higher quality sound.

I've only got 1 DVD-Audio disc, but it's superb. The downside is now when I listen to my CDs they sound less..."warm" I guess is the word. DVD-Audios have the clarity of CDs with the warmth of vinyl. Whee.

22-10-2002, 17:38:29
Techie shit:

CDs store audio using PCM (Pulse Code Modulation) at 44 KHz with 16 bits = 704 kbits/second
SACD stores audio using DSD (Direct Stream Digital) at 2800KHz with 1-bit = 2800 kbits/second
DVD-Audio stores audio uses PCM at 192 KHz with 24 bits = 4608 kbits/second [Stereo] or 96 KHz with 24 bits = 2305 kbits/second [6 channel surround].

SACD is capable of being a CD/SACD hybrid, so it'll have a CD layer so CD players can play it.
DVD-Audio is capable of having a DTS/DD5.1 track, so regular DVD players will be able to play the music via DTS/DD5.1

DVD-Audio increased the dynamic range from 96dB (CD) to 144dB, and frequency response from 20KHz (CD) to 96KHz.
It can also include stuff to output to a TV if one is hooked up to the same system, for stuff like lyrics, album art, pictures, or even video.

22-10-2002, 17:48:47
Thanks Asher.

I thought regular CD quality was higher than that.

22-10-2002, 21:23:13
Regular cd frankly isn't very good. DSD is the way Philips/Sony were trying to produce Digital Audio in the early 80s when they released Cd, but at the time ICs weren't up to the sample rates.

Believe me when I tell you that SuperAudio CD really does just sound better. I have to say it sounds better than DVD-A at 192/24 too IMHO.

It's difficult to describe without sounding like a twat, but dare I say it it sounds more analogue. Just more like music. You hear more of the detail without feeling like you're listening to it from behind a veil of somesort.

Lazarus and the Gimp
22-10-2002, 21:26:35
£10 says that in a blind sample you can't tell the difference.

It's the "new toy" delusion.

22-10-2002, 21:38:20
Hell, I find it impossible to tell between high-quality MP3/Ogg/WMA/whatever and CD.

22-10-2002, 23:10:56
That's probably because you have shite speakers.

22-10-2002, 23:13:16
I haven't had a chance to hear an SACD, only DVD-Audio so far, but I've heard they're both way ahead of CDs, but for both you need good speakers to hear the difference (what good is having a higher definition soundsource when your speakers can't play all the new range and the like?)

22-10-2002, 23:15:05
Originally posted by Asher
That's probably because you have shite speakers. Whereas you have shite musical taste. I think we know who is rich kid and who is Mr. Genius here.

22-10-2002, 23:17:00
My music taste has nothing to do with being able to tell the difference between soundsources on a high end soundsystem.

You can't tell the difference between even tapes and CDs on cheap speakers, let alone DVD-A/SACD and CD.

It's like having a Ferrari and locking it at 65mph. Remove ze bottleneck!

22-10-2002, 23:24:00

22-10-2002, 23:25:33
Actually, I think the bottleneck is the cable between PC and stereo, as I have to use the PC to listen to CDs anyway, and a friend of mine is convinced of the benefits of better cable.

Provost Harrison
23-10-2002, 00:12:47
I agree with Laz, I couldn't tell the difference between CD and something more effective. Remember recording techniques are not perfect, and nor is the fidelity of music systems. I would doubt the sample rate of a CD is the limiting factor.

23-10-2002, 00:45:42
Almost all modern recordings are done in 24-bit/96KHz environments and scaled down to 16-bit for CDs. Now that we've got media with more storage capacity, there's no mix-down required -- and we can mix to 6 channels instead of 2.

CDs don't have smooth "dropoffs" like DVD-Audio/SACD do. When you hear CD vs DVD-A/SACD on a competent stereo system you do notice a difference. Either that or you've got inadequate hearing.

23-10-2002, 08:28:52
Ok - my hifi
1x Pioneer DV-656A SACD/DVD-A player
1x Arcam Alpha 7SE Cd player
1x Yamaha KX360 Casette Deck
2x Arcam Alpha 10 Amps, bi-amped driving a pair of
PMC FB1 speakers
Cable talk 3.1 cables
The speakers alone were £1500

Through that lot, doing a blind audition with my brother controlling the sources, it is perfectly easy to tell the difference between a CD played back on the two different players. Through that lot, even my cousin could tell the difference between an SACD and a DSD remastered CD.

Don't even get me started on MP3s, they are the devil spawn as far as music quality is concerned, I've got "Tapes" that would piss on MP3.

I defy anyone to come around to my house and after a 10 minute demonstration not be able to tell the difference between CD, SACD, DVD-A and even the difference between different CD and DVD players.

23-10-2002, 08:33:34
Also, I'd say being able to hear differences in hi-fi stuff probably has the same level of understanding as wine tasting. Most people just think it's bollocks because although everybody drinks wine and listens to music, until someone tells you HOW to taste wine, and HOW to listen, you just don't notice things.

Further, you really do benefit from expensive kit. You can't expect to get decent sound out of a pc, or out of a little midi system, in the same way you can't really expect to get decent wine for less than a fiver. Spend a little bit more and you reap the rewards.

It's easy to dismiss it as "yeah, bollocks, they just like flash kit", but once you've been shown, experienced/heard/tasted the difference yourself, that's the start of it!

23-10-2002, 13:23:47
Back to the CD prices -

Coldplay - Rush of blood to the head is £7.99 including Delivery.

Why would you buy this cd from anywhere else? It's £13.99 in HMV at the moment.

23-10-2002, 13:26:03
Why would you buy it at all?

23-10-2002, 13:51:14
I'd heard it was good.

23-10-2002, 13:57:58
don't take any notice of mr rock, he's just acting hard in front of his band mates

23-10-2002, 13:59:27
Yeah, I should pretend I like them 'cause people say they are cool, then maybe I can get a job at NME.

23-10-2002, 14:29:05
yes you should

anyway i don't like them much myself

23-10-2002, 14:42:52
I liked most of the Parachutes album and "they" say this one's superior?

Scabrous Birdseed
23-10-2002, 14:43:47
Nice site. I've been meaning to buy the new RHCP "fell between genre reviewers' stools" album.

23-10-2002, 15:18:11
Funky, Rain Dogs and Pet Sounds, to name two, are both cheaper in a music shop. And I have a thing about buying music online.

23-10-2002, 15:29:07
STill a good site though, their DVD prices are very competitive

Scabrous Birdseed
23-10-2002, 15:34:12
Obviously you have to shop around. £9 brand-new albums are unusual in shops, though, so there's definately a possibility I'll get my "big name commercial albums" fix here.

Otherwise internet shops are usually best at getting you stuff that can't reasonably be found in most shops.

Provost Harrison
26-10-2002, 13:23:57
Originally posted by FunkyFingers
Back to the CD prices -

Coldplay - Rush of blood to the head is £7.99 including Delivery.

Why would you buy this cd from anywhere else? It's £13.99 in HMV at the moment.

HMV are robbing bastards, as are most high street music stores. I always buy online nowadays (unless something is uncharacteristically cheap). It is certainly time these chains started sorting out their prices, I mean, it is quite often that HMV charge 50% more than online retailers, and when it comes to buying some of the CDs I want from source in the US, it can be 100% And then they have the advantage of bulk purchase. Pure daylight robbery.