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Snapcase
01-10-2002, 14:49:01
Is teen pop as we know it slowly dying on us in this fair year of 2002? The US singles chart, always somewhat ahead of its british equivalent, has been dominated by the twin spectres of Irv Gotti-style R&B and the more guitar-poppy Avril Lavigne-style sound. Even in britain, the older blah of Kylie or Ellis-Bextor has driven out the traditional teen-powered bleurgh, and groups like Sugababes with a more modern sound have started to find good leverage.

The latest symptom of the death of a generation of Pop music comes with the final demise of Pop Stars-created group Hear'Say (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/2289447.stm). Though I suppose TV-driven "stars" like this will continue to sell to the clueless, but they're hopefully always fleeting when they appear. Who will remember Will woshisname and that awful woman who won American Idol in a couple of years time?

And hopefully, after the current overlaod, the TV Talent Show will soon die off to make way for some even more far-fetched "reality"....

Debaser
01-10-2002, 14:57:36
I'm reliably informed that the next big thing with the kids will be kiddie guitar pop bands. Already we have pretend band Busted at number 3 in the charts, and the mighty Stanford Amp release their first single soon.

*Shrugs* Doesn't really bother me, I never listen to commercial radio or Radio 1 anyway.

Scabrous Birdseed
01-10-2002, 15:03:22
Kiddie Guitar Pop is coming strong. I hear Britney's next album will be guitar-based as well. :vom:

I still think it's demi-positive since marginally better artists like Nelly and Ashanti are taking over and dominating more than anyone ever did since the 60s. In their wake many better artists lurk at the wings, something which you couldn't accuse Britney et al of.

Duty Manager
01-10-2002, 15:07:23
Snapcase, the site is having some occasional bandwidth problems at the moment. If this is happening could you please leave any news postings until the site is running normally. Whatever happens don't hit publish more than once even if it takes a long time to return.

Debaser
01-10-2002, 15:20:05
The thing that pisses me off the most about chart music from the last 5 years or so is not the fact that most of the songs are bland and awful (which goes without saying), it's the way everything has become so marketing based. Bands and artists don't get a chance to build a following or make mistakes these days, record companies do genuinly see their roster of artists as disposable commodities. They get a massive expensive launch, then if they don't sell records immediatly they get dropped to make way for someone else who might. Bands used to build up a following through shitloads of touring, and by being genuinly good, but that doesn't really happen any more. If you're not good looking you don't get on The Box, if you don't gety on the Box you won't get into the top 10, and if you don't get top 10 in your first 3 singles you WILL be dropped.

It's bollocks.

PosterBoy
02-10-2002, 12:26:20
I like Avril:love:

SATAN
02-10-2002, 12:57:32
but debaser who cares about these rosters of bands because they are all composed of arseholes who just want to be famous and care about nothing else. They don't care if what they do is good or bad and they don't care about making music, acting or whatever it takes to make them famous and loved by everyone. So when they get dumped i don't give a flying fuck. bring on the next bunch of celebrity sunglass wearing clit skimming denim sporting wankers.

There are plenty of bands giving their all in live performances playing decent music and doing it because they love it and you can go and see them and support them no problem. If these bands don't appear on cd:uk who gives a fuck - i don't want to see them chatting bollocks with cat fucking deeley anyway

Debaser
02-10-2002, 13:05:16
Originally posted by SATAN
but debaser who cares about these rosters of bands because they are all composed of arseholes who just want to be famous and care about nothing else.

That's what I mean, Pop music didn't used to just be disposable bullshit performed by drama school kids. Prince, Madonna and countless other big name recording artists wouldn't get a chance to get where they are today under the current record company system because their first releases weren't big hits.

FunkyFingers
02-10-2002, 13:36:27
The only way to fight the system is to buy CDs of the bands you like, go and see their gigs, buy their merchandise and don't, what ever you do, watch any of the "pop" programmes or listen to the mainstream radio stations, and then totally forbid anyone you know from listening to any of the manufactured plastic bands.

Goat Spawn
02-10-2002, 13:45:50
Yeah, pop sucks, but who cares what the masses are listening too?

But debaser is right, the very nature of pop has changed, but then it changes every decade:

60's&70's - Decade of original pop
80's - Decade of electro
90's - Decade of remixes
00's - Decade of the marketed band

SATAN
02-10-2002, 13:55:57
that's a naive and grossly oversimplified list

manuafctured bands have been around for ever, remember the monkees?

Goat Spawn
02-10-2002, 14:01:42
Not nearly in the same league as HearSay or steps or popstars.

I'm sorry but I don't really find this subject interesting enough to write a twelve page critique of the history of pop

SATAN
02-10-2002, 14:05:53
you started you mutha, come and finish it!!!! COME ON!!!

Funkodrom
02-10-2002, 14:08:04
It's a simplified list but it does show the change in trends.

protein
02-10-2002, 14:09:21
1960s - Decade of amazing and challenging music and some shit pop.
1970s - Decade of some interesting music, punk, disco and shit pop.
1980s - Decade of shit pop.
1990s - Decade of shit pop and some decent bands.
2000s - Decade of S.... .........

SATAN
02-10-2002, 14:14:37
Originally posted by Funkodrom
It's a simplified list but it does show the change in trends.

i don't agree, ever since there has been pop there has been original material, but also there has been blatant rip offs and copies designed to make money, manufactured stars with manufactured images and rereleases and covers. That's the game, throw away music made by throw away people for kids to throw away when they get into their adult music tastes

protein
02-10-2002, 14:25:18
Yeah the saddest thing is an adult in to pop*.

*Sugar Babes not included.

protein
02-10-2002, 14:26:55
Actually I never liked pop when I was a kid. I liked the Michael Jackson Thriller video if that counts as liking pop.

Debaser
02-10-2002, 14:48:48
to say pop is just for kids is bullshit.

Pop used to mean popular.
-The Beatles were pop.

Indie used to mean independant (ie. signed to a small label or no label at all)
-Dire Straits were indie.

Yes there have always been manufactured bands and artists, but they weren't cynically designed to rip kids off, they were designed to make good, pop songs. Neither Elvis or Frank Sinatra ever wrote a single song, but they were famous and successful because they had talent. Does Ggggggareth Ggggates have that talent? Like fuck does he, but 14yr old girls think he's cute. He's just a record company puppet, when his career starts to fade and people see how bland and one-dimensional he is, his label won't think twice about dropping him (I predict in less than 2 years a la Hear'Say).

Funkodrom
02-10-2002, 14:50:22
Originally posted by SATAN
i don't agree, ever since there has been pop there has been original material, but also there has been blatant rip offs and copies designed to make money, manufactured stars with manufactured images and rereleases and covers. That's the game, throw away music made by throw away people for kids to throw away when they get into their adult music tastes

They didn't used to dominate the way they do now though. Pop used to be stuff like The Beatles and The Kinks.

protein
02-10-2002, 15:00:31
Pop is a type of music now - rather than an abreviation of the word popular.

Funkodrom
02-10-2002, 15:02:05
Yeah... now it means devoid of any musical merit.

protein
02-10-2002, 15:27:38
Pop isn't as popular as people think. It's only about the singles chart anyway.

Funkodrom
02-10-2002, 15:30:31
It doesn't take many singles to get into the top 10.

It's a shame Radio doesn't take more of its cues from album charts.

protein
02-10-2002, 15:33:07
I guess the Doves get in to the charts. Maybe we should release some and show the kiddies a real good time.

Provost Harrison
02-10-2002, 19:11:24
Yes, it is annoying that the charts are filled with so much crap because at work I have to listen to commercial radio, which laps up these bastards and does exactly as the big record companies tell them. And they repeat, repeat, repeat all day long. Occasionally you do get a decent song, which I can't remember being able to say about Radio 1's daytime output in a long time.

*End Is Forever*
02-10-2002, 19:18:47
Originally posted by PosterBoy
I like Avril:love:

It's the tie that does it... she is very cute. :love:

Take off your preppy clothes indeed... :cute:

Provost Harrison
02-10-2002, 19:21:26
Yes, but she is a complete hypocrite.

And besides, I have never seen a picture of her...

*End Is Forever*
02-10-2002, 19:26:52
I'm reliably informed that the next big thing with the kids will be kiddie guitar pop bands. Already we have pretend band Busted at number 3 in the charts, and the mighty Stanford Amp release their first single soon.

Yup... my little brother was watching Sabrina on Nickolodeon and between shows they had an interview with "boy band Natural" who had the nerve to pretend they actually play instruments. Also see The Calling who've found their way, hilariously, onto Kerrang TV, althought admittedly they are a step up from Natural. They might even play their instruments.

We've already seen that pop-punk can be a hit with the little kids... we're now getting the pop-punk bands without the punk. I suppose Avril comes into this catagory, but her music doesn't seem to be completely devoid of merit (admittedly my opinion is based on one song) and besides, she's cute, so it's okay. :)

*End Is Forever*
02-10-2002, 19:31:40
Snaaaaaaaaaapcase... Avril is playing the Astoria in London mid-November. Any chance of an exclusive interview with Nouse hack Iain Lindley? ;)

Or at least a ticket...

Provost Harrison
02-10-2002, 19:32:31
I don't think it is OK. It is marketing relying on men's seemingly complete fallability when it comes to sex. She isn't 'punk' in any sense of the word despite how she claims to be. Another cynical marketing ploy.

*End Is Forever*
02-10-2002, 19:38:37
Am just doing a little "research". I think she actually is a skater...

*End Is Forever*
02-10-2002, 19:41:27
http://www.alavigne.com/Multimedia/pictures/magazines/QMagazine/05.jpg

Provost Harrison
02-10-2002, 19:44:06
If she is a skater, then what's with the kind of music she produces?

*End Is Forever*
02-10-2002, 19:49:10
It's melodic pop with a pop-punk influence.

Sean
02-10-2002, 19:50:09
Dear oh dear (http://www.avrilfans.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=2).

Sean
02-10-2002, 19:51:01
The ‘adventurous adults’ bit is the killer.

*End Is Forever*
02-10-2002, 19:57:32
Definitely being set up as the "little girl in the big city". Which is unfortunate.

Provost Harrison
02-10-2002, 19:59:20
*sniff, sniff*

I can smell marketing speak :hmm:

Lazarus and the Gimp
02-10-2002, 20:26:29
She's quite fit.

Fit girl. Catchy song. Where's the problem?

Sean
02-10-2002, 20:30:03
She’s encroaching on their genres, man!

Scabrous Birdseed
02-10-2002, 20:36:35
The 00s the age of manufactured bands? Bollocks. Nothing done today even comes remotely close to the tactics employed by Bubblegum producers in the sixties. I mean, when TV-Show products The Monkees started acting up, an entire industry of bands that were so manufactured they didn't exist basically got started. Often the same group of studio musicians would record singles under dozens of different names... Think The Archies but with even less pretense at being a real group. Even if there was a band on tour somewhere, it was most likely not the band that recorded the original material... :)

Anyway, the Pop Idol type crap is just a passing fad. I don't see this age as being more manufactured than any other. On the contrary, we're starting to get personalities again. And I maintain that commercial american R&B is the finest thing produced by pure greed since the aforementioned Bubblegum...

*End Is Forever*
02-10-2002, 23:30:17
I just downloaded Avril's second single, Skater Boy, and whilst it's unmistakably guitar-pop it's got a punk edge.

*End Is Forever*
02-10-2002, 23:35:20
I actually really like this song.

Sean
02-10-2002, 23:59:42
I just downloaded that to get some idea of that CD (WELL?!?!).

The signs are ominous. It was pretty much what I expected, which was the problem.

*End Is Forever*
03-10-2002, 00:03:24
What did you expect?

Sean
03-10-2002, 00:07:39
I expected something cheery, and vacuous, and without any edge, any passion to it. That’s what I got.

*End Is Forever*
03-10-2002, 00:11:44
That's a bit harsh. It's good straightforward guitar-pop with a punk theme.

Sean
03-10-2002, 00:15:12
Like I said :p.

*End Is Forever*
03-10-2002, 00:17:10
:lol:

Well it makes a pleasant change from Will Young.

Sean
03-10-2002, 00:19:08
You probably won’t believe me, but I have no idea what he sounds like :o.

*End Is Forever*
03-10-2002, 00:20:13
Just thank heaven for small mercies! Goodnight.

Scabrous Birdseed
03-10-2002, 09:48:38
Young! That's his name. Of course. I kept thinking of him as "Will Kelly" for some reason.

SATAN
03-10-2002, 12:15:53
:lol:

he appeals to 14yr old boys, not girls

PosterBoy
03-10-2002, 14:00:50
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Debaser
[B]to say pop is just for kids is bullshit.

Pop used to mean popular.
-The Beatles were pop.

Indie used to mean independant (ie. signed to a small label or no label at all)
-Dire Straits were indie.

snip

Are you sure?

I thought I read somewhere that to be Indie you had to have independent distribution.

Lazarus and the Gimp
03-10-2002, 16:26:22
The definitions get blurred. Just about every "indie" label uses big-label distribution in America- it's the only really effective way to reach the stores.

Then others use big-label distribution in the UK, but remain signed to an independent label- this gives ease of distribution coupled with artistic freedom.

Then you get the "semi-indie" labels like Blanco Y Negro or Dedicated that are owned by big labels but run as indies (in theory).

*End Is Forever*
03-10-2002, 17:29:07
Yup. Bands like Ash are still technically independent in the UK, but to all intensive purposes they might as well be major-label here (they're definitely major-label in the USA).

I guess the death-knell for indepedent "indie" was Sony's purchase of Creation.

Lazarus and the Gimp
03-10-2002, 19:32:29
It was the demise of Rough Trade Distribution and Pinnacle that really screwed it.

Provost Harrison
03-10-2002, 19:45:51
Well we all know that the big labels are gobbling up and assimilating anything they can get their mits on. It is worrying :nervous:

Scabrous Birdseed
03-10-2002, 22:18:58
"Indie" in what sense? In actual music produced it's a fucking marketing term these days, to compliment the other categories of lovely fucking half-hearted club night, cheese, chart, dance and alternative. Used to denotate ill-written early-nineties britpop with fucking "Girls and Boys" by Blur being the glowing fucking example, excuse my french.

What y'all are discussing is "The Indies". Or something. And this is before we involve record stores...

Debaser
03-10-2002, 22:55:02
I still think Vital are not too bad as major labels go.

Lazarus and the Gimp
04-10-2002, 16:20:52
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
"Indie" in what sense? In actual music produced it's a fucking marketing term these days, to compliment the other categories of lovely fucking half-hearted club night, cheese, chart, dance and alternative. Used to denotate ill-written early-nineties britpop with fucking "Girls and Boys" by Blur being the glowing fucking example, excuse my french.

Spoken like a true youngster who never experienced the golden age of the late eighties when extraordinary things happened.

Funkodrom
04-10-2002, 16:31:22
Even I was too young really...