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Subject_23
29-09-2002, 14:44:49
Likr Andy C, Grooverider, that kind of thing?

PosterBoy
29-09-2002, 14:51:12
Dandelion and Burdock?

PosterBoy
29-09-2002, 14:51:41
I think this belongs in our Food and Drink forum

Subject_23
29-09-2002, 17:11:28
Rock Only.

I read you loud and clear.

PosterBoy
29-09-2002, 18:02:31
Nah
only messing with ya

Scabrous Birdseed
29-09-2002, 19:24:57
You posted it on a sunday, can't expect many responses today. Tomorrow I'm sure the fans of bland yet wildly bastardised and anglified Ragga will acknowledge themselves.

And D&B is Rock. :mad:

Debaser
29-09-2002, 20:03:21
I don't mind a little drum and bass, stuff like Bukem, Roni Size etc. I wouldn't claim to be an expert though.

Lazarus and the Gimp
29-09-2002, 20:47:50
It's middle-class Jungle.

Debaser
29-09-2002, 21:30:05
Maybe so, but that doesn't make the music better or worse. you either like it or you don't.

Scabrous Birdseed
30-09-2002, 09:41:22
I don't.

protein
30-09-2002, 09:50:11
I am.
I supported Grooverider once. I write d'n'b as well.

Qweeg
30-09-2002, 11:47:26
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
It's middle-class Jungle.

wha-!? :confused:

that's like saying Metallica is middle class thrash metal (your holding it by the leg- handles on the other side).

Qweeg
30-09-2002, 11:48:57
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
You posted it on a sunday, can't expect many responses today. Tomorrow I'm sure the fans of bland yet wildly bastardised and anglified Ragga will acknowledge themselves.

And D&B is Rock. :mad:

wha-!? :confused:

That's like saying-... I don't even know, usually I'm pretty good at coming up with analogues but this time you have me stumped. Perhaps you're thinking of something else.

Qweeg
30-09-2002, 11:50:15
Originally posted by protein
I am.
I supported Grooverider once. I write d'n'b as well.

Really? I'd be interested in hearing some of your stuff man. AndyCs latest stuff is kicking it, I really dig that thick meaty aggressive take-no-prisoners Hard Step sound.

You heasrd of Skynet and Stakka?

-Death to UK "poser tapping" Garage.

Scabrous Birdseed
30-09-2002, 11:59:48
Surely UK Garage and D&B is basically the same thing, except UK garage is even more gentrified.

Qweeg
30-09-2002, 12:15:48
:mad::eek:*:cry:^:eek:*(:mad:&":eek:^$:mad:!"&!*!!:confused:!!:bash:

Qweeg
30-09-2002, 12:16:44
Well, in a way I suppose you're right, like Satanism and Christianity is basically the same thing.

Qweeg
30-09-2002, 12:34:43
UKG is mindless poser audio-grid paper (so posers can more precisely configure their gold-dripping vacuum-souled poses as they stand around in those pointless poser-lounges that they go to and call dancing)

D&B and 'Jungle' have HEART damnit! their not just about sodding... posing, their about rhythm and musical complexity and creativety and emotion. HEART.

I preffer to call jungle Hardstep though, becouse the urban-ordered choas sound of junglism is abit nineties. General Levi and co is a looong way from what we do now. Jagged, Fierce, Heavy Beats and of course the ghostly haunting vocal samples lurking somewhere underneath, and vast ethereal 'backdrops' are still there- but more matured I think, better developed.

Qweeg
30-09-2002, 12:48:53
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
You posted it on a sunday, can't expect many responses today. Tomorrow I'm sure the fans of bland yet wildly bastardised and anglified Ragga will acknowledge themselves.

And D&B is Rock. :mad:


I mean calling the stuff 'Anglisized Ragga' is to miss the point entirely. Sure Ragga samples are used to greeat effect but, Jungle isn't just a suburb of Ragga. For starters the sound is uniquely Brittish, it's not Jamaican, nor is it American. Its roots (Old School Hardcore, Techno, Trance, Roots, (real) Garage, and the ragga influences) are broad and deep. You can call it bastardized, I think of it as a child of many fathers (but only one twin-decked mother.... or maybe a computerized mother, of many many layers... urm...)

Anyway... calling it middle class ragga or something is like calling Jimi Hendrix 'Some American bloke who took LSD', or calling The Beattles 'That guitar band'.

Funkodrom
30-09-2002, 14:40:34
YEAH! GO QWEEG!

protein's written some good D&B stuff from what I've heard (Which isn't much)

Scabrous Birdseed
30-09-2002, 15:19:21
The British have a tendency to stick shitty, half-arsed sub-euro-disco dance music onto everything and call it unique. My theory is that it's because they're lily-ass blanckas without a natural sense of rhythm, so they need it spelt out and not hidden in something as obtuse as a groove.

Funkodrom
30-09-2002, 15:28:32
What's that got to do with Drum and Bass?

protein
30-09-2002, 15:31:43
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
My theory is that it's because they're lily-ass blanckas without a natural sense of rhythm, so they need it spelt out and not hidden in something as obtuse as a groove.

Speaking as a drummer and as somebody who lives in Britain, I agree. Most people here do listen to American crap. There are a lot of people in Britain who listen to/make good music though.

Scabrous Birdseed
30-09-2002, 15:46:33
Drum & Bass = "Hardcore" Techno (pff! More like Soft, grooveless shite)+ Ragga basslines and samples + astoundingly annoying repetetive drumming

* * *

America has always excelled over britain when it comes to electronica... Europeans never 'got' House and Techno, and have only recently begun catching up in the urban stakes.

Actually, that's true for just about every other kind of music as well. Britain is the most overvalued musical country ever, and has been responsible for such horrible monstrosities as Symphonic Prog, Depressive Post-Punk and Radiohead.

(I have to admit to loving Mod/Freakbeat/etc., Skinhead Reggae, Glam Rock and some british Punk, though. And a number of great artists spread out over the years.)

protein
30-09-2002, 16:26:00
Scabby - "America has always excelled over britain when it comes to electronica"

UK
------
Orbital
Massive Attack
DJ Shadow
Leftfield
The Prodigy
The Orb
Primal Scream

vs

USA
------
Moby

George
30-09-2002, 16:44:12
Hey Protious, you have forgotten the USA's finest current artists.

Britney, Eminem, Aguluilaria, Quorn, the list goes on. You limeys are dumb, if it weren't for your primeminister Terry Blare, I would have nuked you major league assholes in my terrorist campaign.

Funkodrom
30-09-2002, 16:48:09
We never 'got' house and techno? Huh?

Add Underworld and The Chemical Brothers to protein's list.

PosterBoy
30-09-2002, 16:51:48
KLF

PosterBoy
30-09-2002, 16:52:30
Yazoo

George
30-09-2002, 16:54:07
The Chemical Brothers?
They sound like terrorists. With the help of our good friends in ingerland, I will search out these Chemical Brothers and bring them to justice. Dead or alive.

Lazarus and the Gimp
30-09-2002, 17:03:37
The reason I called it "middle-class jungle" is that I love Jungle. However, when "Drum'n'Bass" emerged it went a lot more pretentious and a lot less exciting. Then there was "Intelligent Drum'n'Bass", and any music prefaced by "Intelligent" is automatically shit. I didn't make the rules.

Sean
30-09-2002, 17:13:08
Hmm, I was listening to Leftism as I opened this thread. Interesting that Snapcase appears to be arguing without knowing anything about the genre.

protein
30-09-2002, 17:15:43
In a free and democratic society all lefties should be wiped out.

protein
30-09-2002, 17:16:51
Oh no, wrong avatar!

George
30-09-2002, 17:18:24
In a free and democratic society all lefties should be wiped out.

Sean
30-09-2002, 17:21:19
Oh, and now I have some idea of what to put on LWP3.

Funkodrom
30-09-2002, 17:36:34
Originally posted by Sean
Hmm, I was listening to Leftism as I opened this thread. Interesting that Snapcase appears to be arguing without knowing anything about the genre.

That's just normal.

Debaser
30-09-2002, 17:51:17
Originally posted by protein


UK
------
DJ Shadow


Protien, since when was DJ Shadow from the UK?

Scabrous Birdseed
30-09-2002, 18:40:02
People define electronica quite narrowly apparently... Perhaps I should say "electronic music" instead. I mean, really, how can you even contemplate something as one-dimentional, hookless and dreary as Massive Attack when you've got groundbreaking avantgarde stuff coming from producers like Timbaland? What does Timo Maas have on Derrick May?

Sean
30-09-2002, 18:42:08
Ah, you’re MVC Boy: you lump them all together.

protein
30-09-2002, 18:49:14
Originally posted by Debaser
Protien, since when was DJ Shadow from the UK?

Well pointed out. I wondered who would get my ... er ... deliberate mistake.

shit.

Lazarus and the Gimp
30-09-2002, 19:02:01
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
People define electronica quite narrowly apparently... Perhaps I should say "electronic music" instead. I mean, really, how can you even contemplate something as one-dimentional, hookless and dreary as Massive Attack when you've got groundbreaking avantgarde stuff coming from producers like Timbaland

You really think anything Timbaland has done is more groundbreaking than "Unfinished Sympathy"? Or more endowed with hooks?

Funkodrom
30-09-2002, 19:02:32
I actually don't like Massive Attack that much either.

:nervous:

Sean
30-09-2002, 19:04:24
Twat.

Lazarus and the Gimp
30-09-2002, 19:05:31
You're excused, Mike, for you are the standard bearer of the rawk.

protein
30-09-2002, 19:06:10
How about Tricky?

Debaser
30-09-2002, 19:07:23
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
You really think anything Timbaland has done is more groundbreaking than "Unfinished Sympathy"? Or more endowed with hooks?

Timberland singlehandedly changed the whole face of modern R&B. That annoying stop/start stacattoey drum style is totally all down to him.

Massive Attack started what turned out to be a brief fad.

Lazarus and the Gimp
30-09-2002, 19:14:32
Seeing as "Unfinished Sympathy" was released in 1990 and has charted 3 times since, Portishead won the Mercury in 1994, "Maxinequaye" topped the critic polls in 1995, and "Mezzanine" produced 4 hit singles in 1999 while "12 promos" was one of the top-selling music DVD's of 2001, which definition of "brief" are we using in comparison to the aeon-long domination of Timbaland?

Debaser
30-09-2002, 19:49:13
Massive Attack may have had a long and distinguished career, but they have easily outlived the (brief fad) trip-hop movement they started.

Timberland has redefined and reinvigorated (is that a word?) a whole genre.

I'm not saying Massive Attack aren't an important band, indeed I'd much rather listen to them than Timberland any day, but on a worldwide scale Timberland has made a bigger difference to popular music.

protein
30-09-2002, 20:45:14
So did Elvis but in my personal opinion I would rather go to the dentist than listen to Elvis.

Scabrous Birdseed
30-09-2002, 21:01:08
I can forgive liking D&B, but not disliking Elvis. Blasphemy!

Funkodrom
30-09-2002, 21:02:17
I didn't like Portishead either. The basslines from their first album just used to pound through the walls at uni. ARGH!!! They are a lot better when you can hear the whole song but that soured me to them.

Timbaland may have reinvigourated and redefined a whole genre but it was a shit genre in the first place and he's made it more annoying.

Scabrous Birdseed
30-09-2002, 21:05:03
Unfinished Sympathy is such a boring track. Astoundingly flat and unexciting in every aspect, with like one overextended original hook and absolutely nothing else of value whatsoever. It's not even performed well. Give me Timbaland's combination of intricate, discordant arrhythmia and absolutely wicked grooves any day.

Funkodrom
30-09-2002, 21:36:56
You can have it.

Debaser
30-09-2002, 23:05:42
Timberland's over now though. He's just trading on his name and past glories. These days it down to the Neptunes (produced the last O.D.B album) to keep R&B interesting.

Noisy
30-09-2002, 23:15:38
Given that I love Portisead and Massive Attack, is that a good enough reason to get an album from this Timbaland chappie?

Debaser
30-09-2002, 23:31:54
No, they don't actually sound remotely like each other.

Scabrous Birdseed
01-10-2002, 08:25:11
"Over" and "Over", he's not the #1 producer any more, but I prefer to see it as a lean year. :D

Anyway, the entire genre is his work in some ways. The absolutely best producers who last year worked with more traditional forms (Just Blaze, etc.) seem to have switched over to the new form recently, often outshining anything done last year. I'm slightly worried about the Murder Inc. sound, but that's been getting better as well.

This winter, Missy Elliott's new album. :love:

Funkodrom
01-10-2002, 08:52:09
Annoying voice.

Subject_23
01-10-2002, 12:43:12
I can't read anymore of this, Scabarous, you are talking out of your anus. I've always thought its Americans who just don't 'get' the music. You don't live in Britain, you don't know what we listen to, you probably heard a couple of circa 1996 tunes and think that's all there is here. Britain is not peopled only by 'lily-blanckas', we have an Afro-carribean and Asian community that is very contributive to British musical culture, they would not take kindly to the fact you seem to think the UK only has rock-music and can't do anything else. In addition to the House scene and the Garage scene the UK is doing it big time. We own the Ibiza and Aya Napa club scene, what've you got? Detroit. We are the home of The Prodigy. Buckem, Orb, MA, Acen, Grooverider, Andy C, Ratty, Nikki Blackmarket, Roni Size, Stakka and Skynet, a whole host of others. If you don't know how to listen to the music then fair enough- just don't slag off what you dont have an insight in.

Debaser
01-10-2002, 13:27:41
Ssshhh, you'll make him mad.

Funkodrom
01-10-2002, 13:42:56
The best way to look at it is that if Scabby hates the music you like you have good taste and if he likes the same stuff you do then you need to take a hard look at your music collection.

Scabrous Birdseed
01-10-2002, 14:15:57
Originally posted by Subject_23
You don't live in Britain

Yes I do.

Scabrous Birdseed
01-10-2002, 14:17:00
That post was just a troll, btw. Chill.

Qweeg
01-10-2002, 14:59:21
You can say what you like about some folk, but just don't dare be dissing they toonz maaaan.

Unless its UKGarage, in which case- knock y'self out:)