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Koshko
30-07-2002, 20:20:25
Best Buy has it on sale for a price I'd be willing to buy it for. I'm still interested in a game along that line, but at the same time, I'm still very into AoW2. I'm about halfway through the Campaign so far. I've been playing everything including the 3rd Chapters of each section (which aren't absolutely necessary). They don't got the best non-campaign scenarios from what I've seen, but they got the Map Maker and a nice onlnie community who I'm sure are starting to churn out the player made maps soon. Also, I only got like 3-4 weeks left until college again which will curb my spare time a bit. So, how has NWN been?

King_Ghidra@home
30-07-2002, 20:32:27
just fine :)

i love it - and it's a modders dream

MDA
30-07-2002, 20:48:56
Yes, modders dream. I didn't think of myself as a modder before I started screwing with it.

SP is good, but is beginning to bog down just a little at the end of Ch. 3.

I killed an ancient red dragon and only got a lousy 280 experience points for the actual kill last night. :mad:
It would seem two things are happening - your experience needed to gain a level increases incrementally with each level AND the experience you receive for killing monster A decreases with each level you gain.

I'm probably wrong, but it seems that way.

Don't let that stop you from buying a fine, fun game.

No longer Trippin
01-08-2002, 10:10:18
MDA, they probably did that so they didn't have to use use the whole DND liscence to create a challenge to the players.. haha, actually they did it cause they knew their graphic artist would throw a shit fit at having to make about 50 to75 new skeletal animations and skins at the very least, not to mention attack effects, scripts, bugs... oops, did that slip in there?

I really doubt Wizard's of the West Coast or whoever the fuck owns the DnD copyright now gives a shit. Long as money is coming in and interest is being generated in the game they are happy. Right now is not exactly the right time due to the WONDERFUL economy to be throwing hissy fits about EXACT ownership rights when its all really the same damned thing repacked under a different name so idiots have to buy more books -- but since it's all 3rd edition now, and some series have been discontinued, it doesn't really fucking matter to whoever owns the rights. They can just pop those creatures in whatever "universes" still exist.

And no, I no longer sleep now.

Sir Penguin
01-08-2002, 23:25:16
Originally posted by MDA

I killed an ancient red dragon and only got a lousy 280 experience points for the actual kill last night. :mad:
It would seem two things are happening - your experience needed to gain a level increases incrementally with each level AND the experience you receive for killing monster A decreases with each level you gain.


You mean like in ZAngband? That's terrible!

SP

MoSe
02-08-2002, 10:37:47
What's NWN? :cute:

Fistandantilus
02-08-2002, 10:46:13
http://nwn.bioware.com/

Shining1
02-08-2002, 10:55:14
Penguin: Yes, it is terrible. Very very terrible. Angband must be a horrible, horrible nasty game...:D

DaShi
02-08-2002, 12:59:34
I think I got about 400 for the Red Dragon and 400 for the Blue one before it.

I don't see how wizards can kill a dragon solo. They have far too much magic resistance, and there is no way a wizard can fight it in melee. My monk has troubles in melee. My usual strategy is fight the dragon with Sharwyn until she casts improved invisibility on me, which is the only way I can survive the dragons blows long enough to make a hit myself. Then run and hide! Drink some healing potions, and save. Attack, if I get a hit, run and hide, drink, and save. If I miss every hit, die and reload.

King_Ghidra
02-08-2002, 13:47:14
you pansy

my sorceror would just summon a holy avenger or something

MDA
02-08-2002, 14:10:27
I finally had to resort to setting about half a dozen traps between red and the footbridge, and leaving Linu and Loki (the panther) behind them. Speak with dragon, poison dragon, run back to footbridge and cast greater dispel with rod of reversal. Then open up with poison arrows, rapid shot. I think I only connected with two arrows at pointblank range, but after the poison and wading through all the traps it was enough.

I suppose if the traps had killed him I would have got nothing at all.
Looking at it that way, I might have been lucky. :)

DaShi
04-08-2002, 00:14:03
[From the Bioware Forums]
Apparently, Linu can caste harm and take him out herself, if she's a high enough level, and you use the Squeakybobo ball.

Shining1
04-08-2002, 05:42:02
Someone's been reading WAAAY too much sluggy...:)

Funkodrom
04-08-2002, 10:13:29
No such thing as too much sluggy. :hmm:

DaShi
06-08-2002, 02:45:53
Let me check my notes.

Sirius Black
07-08-2002, 02:03:25
Get Morrowind instead :D.

DaShi
07-08-2002, 20:34:29
I thought about Morrowind, but from most of the reviews I've read it seems like it would get boring very quickly for me. Now the main campaign for NWN wasn't as good as Baudler's Gate II, but the toolset is loads of fun. I hope to start working on my own campaign a bit this weekend.

Sirius Black
07-08-2002, 21:21:45
Boring quickly? Why, you need to be led by the hand in your RPGs? :cute:

King_Ghidra@home
07-08-2002, 22:02:44
but i hear morrowind is much too easy

Koshko
08-08-2002, 02:02:45
I didn't get either. I figured that since college is only 2 1/2 weeks away :cry: I wouldn't have the time to finish it before college.

DaShi
08-08-2002, 13:46:12
Originally posted by Sirius Black
Boring quickly? Why, you need to be led by the hand in your RPGs? :cute:

I heard the interaction with NPCs is minimal as well as any rewards for your achievements. You would complete a quest, but no one would react any differently. And when you achieve the top of your guild, you can't really do anything. I either like a game I can immerse myself in, or one with a really good storyline to keeep me hooked.

Sirius Black
08-08-2002, 22:01:00
I dunno.. I find Morrowind to be pretty immersive. Maybe it is because of the prettyness :cute:. Though I do hear that NWN single player becomes basically hack-n-slash after the midway point.

Sean
09-08-2002, 00:05:16
Originally posted by DaShi
I heard the interaction with NPCs is minimal as well as any rewards for your achievements. You would complete a quest, but no one would react any differently. And when you achieve the top of your guild, you can't really do anything.
Except the main quest. Or exploring. Besides, that is more of a player problem: is it playing in role to be head of House Hlaalu, etc., so ‘early’ in the story?

Shining1
09-08-2002, 01:46:25
I like NWN, but I'm not down with the dissing Morrowind thing either. They're different games, and they work in a different style.

NWN is run-on-rails hack and slash after you finish the tutorial - but it has a very good game system and there is still a lot of interaction with the main characters. Morrowind is as open as a CRPG gets - it's massive, and you could spend a YEAR playing it all if you only managed 1-2 hours a night.

They're both great value.

Sirius Black
09-08-2002, 01:57:45
Especially if you steal them ;).

No, seriously... I'm going to finish Morrowind (one of these... weeks), and then see if I have the cash (and time) for Neverwinter.

Shining1
09-08-2002, 03:57:31
The more time you give Neverwinter to get fixed the better. It's not something you should rush. The last patch fixed two bugs which I actually encountered as well as 4 memory leaks and a bunch of server stuff. It's a great game, but it hasn't been a great release.

Funkodrom
09-08-2002, 11:30:28
Originally posted by Shining1
Morrowind is as open as a CRPG gets - it's massive, and you could spend a YEAR playing it all if you only managed 1-2 hours a night.

Only!!! :eek:

Shining1
09-08-2002, 12:44:16
Maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit:). There's definitely a good quarter of gameplay in there if you are serious about the game.

Funkodrom
09-08-2002, 12:46:34
I'd never get close to finishing it then. :D

Venom
09-08-2002, 13:06:07
I still haven't finished BG2.

Funkodrom
09-08-2002, 13:07:58
I got to the first mission thing after I got out of the dungeon.

Venom
09-08-2002, 13:36:06
I'm further than that but I haven't played in months. I think I just got past the part where you have to sacrifice one of your skill points to get out of the alternate universe.

Funkodrom
09-08-2002, 16:31:46
I'm not surprised, I'm basically still right at the beginning.

Venom
09-08-2002, 16:33:02
I don't even know why you buy those games. You never have the time to beat them.

Funkodrom
09-08-2002, 16:33:54
I didn't, I borrowed it from Shakey. I've never bought one. There's no point as you say.

Venom
09-08-2002, 16:40:34
As long as he paid. What the hell does he do where he has so much time to do nothing?

DaShi
11-08-2002, 02:41:17
Well, I finish the first area of my module. Not really finished. I plan on adding a few things, and there is still some more clean up. But most of it is done. It is amazing. After all that work, there is so little to actually do in it in comparison. It's like making a movie. You spend days on just a few shots lasting a few minutes.

The joys of scripting. I wanted one NPC to be researching. She would walk to the bookshelf, then to her desk, sit down, complain about getting the wrong scroll, then go back to the book shelf, wash, rinse, and repeat. Seemed simple enough. I tried scripts on heartbeat, scripts on spawn, scripts on userdefined, scripts on disturbed, scripts on several triggers, even scripts on a desk. Not one of them works. Turned out that it was as easy as it seemed. One script on a trigger was all I needed. Once I worked out the actiondo and assigncommand functions, it fell into place. Hopefully, this will help prepare me for some of the really big scripts, I've got planned. :bounce:

Shining1
11-08-2002, 11:01:13
*massive round of applause!*

MDA
13-08-2002, 14:24:46
making henchman isn't turning out to be so hard either - making henchmen with unique conversation trees is a pain, though.

I'm currently trying to set up scripts for a "help find and fix my dog" quest - this involves getting an item from someone in conversation(easy) and making a journal/quest entry(easy), and taking it to a dog in a cave - the dog, on detecting the PC should check his inventory for the healing item - if the item is detected, the dog is friendly, if not, it goes hostile and attacks (that was the bit that will challenge my f33b skilz). If the dog is friendly, the PC can begin a conversation, which results in a floaty text "woof!" (easy) and the "healing" plot item in the PC inventory is destroyed (should be easy), and the dog gives X amount of experience to the PC (easy), and the journal is updated (easy). The trick will be making things work out if the PC encounters and kills the dog before getting the quest. That will require the quest giver to check on the live/dead condition of the dog and use the appropriate conversation tree. This isn't too hard either - but it is incredibly TIME CONSUMING!

Summary: Scripting is mostly easy, but takes much time. -OR - I completely agree with DaShi.

I am nowhere near finishing the first chapter/module of a campaign I'm thinking will take 3 chapters. I've learned tons of neat stuff about scripting, and am realizing I've only scratched the surface of what good scripts can do for a module.

Shining1
14-08-2002, 00:46:46
If the dog is sick, just make it ignore the PC when they arrive, instead of going hostile. Much easier, and less prone to irritate players who didn't search out every single quest at the start.

It's much better that the player gets initially confused by finding a neutral dog in a cave that does nothing and then puts 2+2 together later than to have the quest kill itself at that point. Especially so if the latter option actually involves more programming work!

jsorense
14-08-2002, 02:31:00
[waaay off topic]
So Shining 1, what do you think about your guests from the Mother Country? What did they break and or steal while they were there? Come on, you can tell me, I won't tell anyone. You know you can trust me. My lips and fingers will be sealed.
[/waaay off topic]
;) ;) nudge nudge

LadyRachel
14-08-2002, 08:12:12
Well, Mike blew up one of the elements on our stove top, for a start.

Shining1
14-08-2002, 08:15:29
And he took my cellphone and couple of Rachel's CDs.

Darkstar
14-08-2002, 10:34:27
Whoa! No way! (I hope...)

Darkstar
14-08-2002, 10:34:53
A simple mix up, yes?

No longer Trippin
14-08-2002, 10:57:24
Well, he needs a phone incase he gets lost. :) Don't know why he'd take her music, with her taste. :)

Shining1
14-08-2002, 11:09:13
Well, one of them was the Bad Boy Bill CD you sent her...:)

DaShi
14-08-2002, 13:12:23
[Back on topic]
I followed Celowin's henchman guide to make a practice henchman, and it worked just fine. In fact, Celowin's guide taught me nearly everything about scripting for this game.

Last night, I finished my portal system for the main city using only two scripts. By hacking the Bioware scripts for the Host Tower, I was able to create generic scripts for each portal. Thus, all I need to do when I lay down the placeable's is given them the appropriate tags. Also, I learned that if you have two idendical objects (same tags) in two different areas, the GetObjectByTag() function will only find the first object painted regardless of what area the script is run in. I was scratching my head wondering why all the portals were working in one area, but the same portals didn't work in another area. I got it to work simply by changing GetObjectByTag() to GetNearestObjectByTag(), which only searches for the nearest object within the area it is run from. Though I wonder, if it is possible to get several objects that have the same tag and apply effects on them.

I've gotten pretty good at simplifying Bioware's scripts for my use. All my signs now run under one script and don't need a conversation at all. Definintely saves on the clutter. :bounce:

MDA, you could probably set a local variable for the dog. Set it to 2, if the dog is dead, then have your other script check that variable. That's what I do in a lot of my conversations to turn off a part of the conversation if it has been said already or the quest is irrelevant.

I've thought about dividing my campaign into chapters, but I'd like the freedom to move between modules, without losing or resetting everything. The main story takes place outside of the city, but I have planned some 20 subquests within the city to keep people occupied. I'd like to make the city itself one chapter and then have two chatper2's (one if you leave through the north gate, and one if you leave through the east gate), and still be able to return to the city module to complete any unfinished quests. I've thought about puting all the information on a item, but there's a lot information to record: what triggers activated, were people killed, what items taken, what conversations had, and so on. Very daunting.

MDA
14-08-2002, 17:01:17
Celowin's tutorial and the basic tooset intro have been a godsend.
I've been trying to do the sick dog thing by having a module event-

OnAcquireItem - for the medicine plot item Jackie (item will just pop into inventory out of an in-conversation action taken script, very easy) gives the PC to use on the dog - dog will be default hostile and part of his own unique "Rex" faction until the PC acquires the item. - then all I have to do is AdjustReputation(this is the event, yes?) to friendly.

I just can't get a script that will compile, it could just be bad grammar - or it could be because I'm putting scripts together from different places (and modifying the objects within them) and they don't "fit".

I think I've got the logic down, but I can't write a decent script.

DaShi
14-08-2002, 17:49:31
Originally posted by MDA
Celowin's tutorial and the basic tooset intro have been a godsend.
I've been trying to do the sick dog thing by having a module event-

OnAcquireItem - for the medicine plot item Jackie (item will just pop into inventory out of an in-conversation action taken script, very easy) gives the PC to use on the dog - dog will be default hostile and part of his own unique "Rex" faction until the PC acquires the item. - then all I have to do is AdjustReputation(this is the event, yes?) to friendly.

I just can't get a script that will compile, it could just be bad grammar - or it could be because I'm putting scripts together from different places (and modifying the objects within them) and they don't "fit".

I think I've got the logic down, but I can't write a decent script.

You probably don't need to make it a module event. Rather since the PC gets the medicine during a conversation, use the actiontaken event on the conversation line where the PC gets the medicine. Then write a script there that gives the PC the medicine from whoever he's talking to (make sure its in his invetory) and sets the Rex faction to friendly or neutral. Both can be done using the script wizard, but you'll have to alter the script to look for Rex's faction or it will use the faction of the NPC that you are speaking to.

MDA
14-08-2002, 18:51:19
Thanks. I'll give that a try. It sounds much cleaner and easier than what I was attempting to do. :)

MDA
15-08-2002, 13:43:00
Much, MUCH, easier. It works great. Thanks!

DaShi
18-08-2002, 21:30:22
Glad it works. Now I need to work on this script that weakens healing spells or just cripples clerics, druids, paladins, and their like.

I did finish the general layout of my city. With all the portals working, I could travel to each one to look around. However, since few people have been placed and the insides of buildings aren't done yet, it's kind of creepy to walk around in. Like a ghost town.

I also finished my new experience system. Monsters no longer give you experience. So you don't "have" to fight that Red Dragon and his friends just to get to the highest level. Definitely a weakness for me. In NWN and the BG games, I would killed every monster in a dungeon. I didn't care about gold, I had that in abounds. I wanted experience. Anyway, I hated that these games made me feel that I had to kill everything.

Plus, I want to make the monsters scary again. Hence the crippled healers, any damage you suffer from will likely stay with you awhile. Since you don't get any experience from monsters, there is no benefit to attacking them willy nilly. The monsters are truly a threat to you. :nervous:

MDA
19-08-2002, 16:11:50
Started playing the Pool of Radiance module solo this weekend. It has a nice nostalgic feel, and I like how you can't rest just anyplace. That forces the spellcasters to conserve their power, too. The module isn't too hard, I've only had two tough battles so far, first was a a greater mummy and two regular mummies in Valhingen Graveyard. That battle took about 5 minutes and nearly all my healing to complete, because my fighter doesn't have enough will to resist fear long enough to take more than a swing or two at a greater mummy. Naturally, I took the iron will feat at the first opportunity. Second was the basilisk in Mantor's library. It paralyzed me, but my hench-cleric managed to hang on and kill it. Can't wait to expose Porphyrys Cadorna's sorry ass again.

Next I'm going to try the Spires of Ravenloft module to see if its as good as they say, then I'm going to study how they scripted the "cool stuff" and see if I have a use for it anywhere.

DaShi
20-08-2002, 00:48:43
I'll give them a look myself, as I'll probably be too tired to do any scripting after work this week.

Since I've never played D&D outside of computer games, there is no nostalgia for me. Hence, my tendency to throw away the normal rules for rules that I like better or that I feel better work with the story and what I'm creating.

MDA
20-08-2002, 17:22:41
I started D&D with the red and blue basic/expert "workbooks" and moved to 1st edition AD&D. We nearly always chose/discarded the rules that worked for us. We weren't into keeping track of weapon bonus/penalties vs. the various types of armor, so we "simplified" it (gone). If stuff like that REALLY upsets someone, they need to take a break and get perspective. Sure it would be more realistic, but how much more FUN is it spending time poring over the chart to see which weapon to use against that orc in scale mail while everyone else waits?

Hell, sometimes we ditched the rules altogether and used a homemade"read: mimeographed in purplish black ink from an unknown, likely copyrighted source" system.


Just noticed some people got together and modded a troll script that requires you use a set minimum of acid/fire damage to have any realistic chance of putting one down permanently. Very interesting.

MattHiggs
20-08-2002, 21:59:56
I'm just about to play NWN with some friends. The multiplayer options are unlimited. Really is a great game. Single player is good too, if a little tedious in places, not as good as BG2 single player though.

Koshko
21-08-2002, 04:39:01
I never got it and since college is beginning next week again, I may never will. Rules are made to be thrown out. :)

King_Ghidra
21-08-2002, 10:59:11
Originally posted by Koshko
I never got it [...] I may never will. Rules are made to be thrown out. :)

you've certainly thrown the rules of grammar out :D

Koshko
21-08-2002, 19:05:14
Grammar me no like

LadyRachel
22-08-2002, 00:45:16
Neither does the author of the Pool of Radiance module. Oh, my aching head...

MDA
22-08-2002, 12:28:08
it gets worse as you get closer to the end, Rachel.

I should have known from the intro movie... :nervous:

DaShi
22-08-2002, 12:55:49
There was an intro movie. I, myself, wasn't too h appy with the Pool of Radiance mod. Too much hack and slash. Practically, no roleplaying. And sleeping was a pain. When I fought the head orcs in the slums, I was a level 1 cleric with no spells. Groan!

Anyway, I've gone back to scripting for my module. I wanted to alter the resting behavior of the game myself. Mostly to make it harder to heal. But a cleric or mage without spells is no fun. So I downloaded the HardCore Rules mod in hopes of using their sleeping script: once every 8 hours, only heal a little bit (I didn't care for the bleeding, armor penalty, or bedrolls). Not only does that one script require a few others to compile, it requires other scripts just to run. So you can't just put in the sleeping script and use it, you've got to put in some of the other, which I didn't want.

So I looked through the script to see, if I could alter it to fit my own needs. Ahhh! So complicated and everything was set for persistant worlds. I managed to find out what everything did. The only part that I could use was the limiting heal scripts. The 8 hour resting I had to write myself, which so far I have miserably failled at. I tried using GetTimeHour(), but not only does that not work for me, it will run into problems after 24 hours have past. Now I may need to set up a script that keeps track of time itself. I'll probably work at it again this weekend.

mumin
23-08-2002, 19:12:44
So how goes your mod, Dashi? I'm just getting into NWN after enjoying the heck out of Morrowind, but I find it fun and soild. Is modmaking easy if you have used similar tools before?

DaShi
23-08-2002, 19:20:43
Scripting is the only hard part. But there are a lot of resources online. I knew nothing about C+ scripting, but was able to pick up NWNScript easily after Celowin's courses on the bioware forums.

There is still a lot about scripting I don't know. My scripts seems like elementary school papers compared to some of the stuff I've downloaded (esp. the HardCore Rules). And I don't like to use scripts that I don't understand. So most of my scripts are simplified versions of others, esp Biowares.

Once you start getting used to it, it gets much easier. My first area is still a mess of unused scripts that is in need of heavy cleaning. Fortunately, I now name all my scripts by the area they are first designed in so they are easier to keep track of.

mumin
23-08-2002, 19:28:06
Any special places you'd recommend if you want to check all that stuff out?

DaShi
23-08-2002, 19:38:47
Bioware forums are the best place to start. Also the NWVault.

mumin
23-08-2002, 19:42:36
I shall. Thank you!

DaShi
24-08-2002, 16:39:51
Learned something today. Apparrently, you can not store an object as a variable on an item. I had to rewrite my henchman death scripts the long and annoying way. :(

mumin
24-08-2002, 20:42:26
I've d/l'd a couple of modules and opened them up in the toolset, then proceeded with copying the official campaign and opening up that. Fascinating stuff.

NWN has some real potential to be mod heaven. Is there any way to change the character generating rule from Bioware's home-brown to real 3G, do you know? Can't seem to find any info on that.

MDA
26-08-2002, 15:13:39
the guy that did the Keep on the Borderlands module (Shadowraven?) has implemented 3E subraces - if you d/l the module you might be able to see what he did and how he did it.

Note to modders: If you're going to implement NPC/shop schedules, you had better put in a way to wait X hours. :mad:
I was getting pretty fed up in the Keep module until I realized that the chapel was always open and I could at least sell off my heavy loot there and replenish healing. Strange thing, I rest, no time passes on the clock. The other thing that bugs me about that module is that every object appears to be usable, but they're not. Its just the creator's way of adding color to an area - you can't get a popup description without making the object usable, I guess. He could have added an (open) or (search me) at the end of descriptions of objects you could actually use/open. I hate spending all my time trying to find the one crate among the dozen objects in the room that actually contains something.
Add to my torment the fact that this is the first time I've played a character without any fighter or rogue levels (Dwarven Druid, just because I can ;) )

The bleeding script sucks in SP when your henchman has nothing to heal you with. May as well reload a saved game, because it takes forever to recover from a stabilized state to 1 HP. Lots of little features of hardcore rules that make the game less fun in SP, but I can see their utility in multiplayer.

DaShi
26-08-2002, 20:43:25
Sleeping does effect the time in the main campaign either. I think that there are scripts that cause 8 hours to pass whenever you sleep. Currently, my sleep script only allows you to sleep once every 8 hours and even then only recover some HPs. The hardcore rules are far to strict for me. Playing a cleric or even a mage in the pools of radiance mod was annoying because you couldn't find a place to rest afer exhausting your spells. I hope mine doesn't have the same problem, but I'm still far from real play testing.

I've realized that I'm a terrible scripter. I spent hours working on my changing of the guard scripts. Basically, I wanted there to be day guards and night guards. First, I thought that the day guards would go to the barracks at night. However, since my city uses a portal system to get around, the guards proved to be too domb to properly use the portal. The night guards wouldn't even try to use it unless my PC was there to watch :confused:. So I thought I'd just send my guards to the void when their shift was over. They would walk through a door and new guards would walk out, but you couldn't walk through the door yourself. Don't! I mean don't put a script on a doors onopen event that immediately causes the door to close then have an NPC try to open that door. Ctrl-Alt-Del later, I decided that it would be cool if the day guards so sort transformed into the night guards. After many failed scripts, I gave up on that idea. Although, I think I know how to do it now: you have to create and later destroy a waypoint and the current guard's location. So I finally just decided to use the jumptolocation command. The day guards dispear to the void, while the night guards appear in the city center then walk to their posts or waypoints. Which is cool with the right effects.

My target practicing archers script, which is a complete ripoff of Celowin's dart thrower script :), also took hours to perfect. Often the main obstacle for me is writing a script that more than one object can use without interfering with eachout. I hate writing out separate scripts for different objects that do the same things. But that just adds a level on complexity that takes my scripts longer or just busts them.