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25-07-2002, 19:15:51
Click to view Cover to Cover by Snapcase (http://www.counterglow.net/article.php?id=covertocover).

Snapcase
25-07-2002, 19:28:34
Sorry about the title. It was either that or "Recovery", which is even worse.

Lazarus and the Gimp
25-07-2002, 20:20:21
Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely Leadbelly wrote "Goodnight Irene"?

Snapcase
25-07-2002, 20:26:37
Nope. It's a demi-obscure popular song from the nineteenth century, that he picked up during his Vaudeville days.

All according to last friday's episode of "Walk on By", so it must be true. :D

King_Ghidra
26-07-2002, 07:55:55
Snapcase in 'not saying anything controversial' shock! :eek:

Snapcase
26-07-2002, 09:29:42
Damn it! I should have just condemned all covers of covers like I originally planned to do.

Debaser
26-07-2002, 16:38:18
" Perhaps the hang-ups of a few strange fans are worth it. Perhaps you just get on and make the best of the knowledge you have. You may not create a great cover, but it can still be a great song. "

Can we hear some of your covers then please? You seem be be setting yourself up as something of an expert.

Debaser
26-07-2002, 16:39:32
"Can a good cover of a bad cover be a good cover? Or is this an inherent weakness in the art of double-covering?"

Did you not realise how wanky that sounded when you wrote it?

Snapcase
26-07-2002, 21:26:01
Aren't you being exceptionally kind and jolly today?

Comment one: Er, say what? Isn't the passage you quoted me resigning myself to being brushed aside, 'cause it probably all bullshit? Anyway, even if you read it differently I've written way more arrogant stuff in my life. :D

Can we hear some of your covers then please?

"A critic is someone who knows where to go but doesn't know how to get there", famous quote by someone. :D (It's not quite true, though. I do write music. I'm absolutely awful at covers, though, cause I can't write arrangements top-down.)

Comment two: It's entirely and fully an intentional stylistic choice. I wanted the "good cover of a bad cover" sequence in there, and the alternative ("Is a good cover of a bad cover itself a bad cover?") is less snappy and doesn't lead well into the next sentence.

Debaser
27-07-2002, 12:11:08
Originally posted by Snapcase
Aren't you being exceptionally kind and jolly today?

Hmm, I was a bit rude, sorry dude, it had been a bad day.

All I was really trying to say was that if you listen to a song and like it, then you like it, if you don't then you don't. It's only music. For example, you said "I consider Blondie's "Tide is High" to be an astoundingly bad cover for such a good band. None of the darkness and melancholy of the original remains, replaced by generic pop-reggae and happy-go-lucky brashness." I disagree. Blondie (one of my favourite bands) were, at the time, basically a example of a happy-go-lucky pop band. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people love their version of the song. Obviously they liked and respected the original, what with immitation being the sincerest form of flattery, but why shouldn't they cover it in their own style? Why should a pop band be marked down for making a pop song?

Snapcase
27-07-2002, 12:36:09
Thank you for initiating debate. I had given up on this article... :D

Can I just ask other people if they think a cover should try to reach for the meaning of the original song? Most Paragons songs, if seen only to the melodic and lyrical contents, are happy-go-lucky songs. It's only in performance they gain the extra dimension of whistfulness that is their main selling point, really. So should whoever makes the cover try to emulate/enhance this melancholy tone? I'm not sure myself. Delroy Wilson's cover of "I'm in a Dancing Mood" turns a bouncy ska song into a self-destructive Rocksteady masterpiece. Why should the opposite move, from slightly whistful beach tune to triumphant pop hit not be acceptable?

Perhaps it's just pure prejudice. I mean, I'm a Paragons fan who heard the original before knowing the cover existed, most other people would approach it from the other direction.

C.G.B. Spender
27-07-2002, 19:15:37
There are different principles of creating cover versions, different approaches.

1. It's my favourite song and I want to play it. I'm going imitate it as close as I can get. Usually a bad approach, because if it's so good, it will be very HARD to create a better version. However, sometimes it works - because it fails. "Live and let Die" by G&R. Argh!

2. It's a good song but they ruined it, I can do better. This usually also fails because I'm so damned clever and it's MY opinion what's good or bad. It will end like a technicolor/dolby enchanced version of an old B/w movie.

3. This song means something to me and I want to feel it. This is quite OK, sometime great. I like the Unholy's cover of "Wild thing", because IT IS a wild thing. Technically bad, but "real".

4. I hate this song and I'm going to kill it. That's quite funny. Remember "My way"? but usually no great song

5. I want to move the song in a different context. The first time I heard XTC's version of "All along the watchtower" I was puzzeled. They cut the son into tiny bits to the end. Interesting. Or the Resident's covers. Very weird. Usually you can learn a lot about what is a song, but it's often hard. I also like the "Knocking on heaven door" (Dylan again?) approach of the LM CD. A computer voice, great idea.

6. Let's play it. Let's see what happenes. What are we going to do now? Dunno, let's play "Louie Louie" inin a Staus Quo way.
I always loved that.

Probably some more

A cover of a cover of a cover of a cover could be interesting, evolution, iteration, whatever.

I like the idea. Someone should write a simple song. He should send his version to another person. This person should create a new version and so on. it would be interesting if the last version would have SOMETHING to do with the first.

Snapcase
27-07-2002, 19:28:50
We should do that as a counterglow activity. We have enough musicians on the board... :D

Snapcase
27-07-2002, 19:32:54
Oh, and I really like cover type 6 as well. The problem is that I usually envisonage dead artists doing it. Elvis doing Jonathan Richman's "I'm a little Aeroplane", for instance.

C.G.B. Spender
27-07-2002, 21:48:18
I'm a little Dinosaur would suit better

Herman
03-08-2002, 04:13:48
Pretentious crap

Cheers

Snapcase
03-08-2002, 10:23:26
Fuck you Asher. I explicitly tried to adopt a questioning tone so it doesn't sound so arrogant and self-assured, and what do I get? :shoot:

Funkodrom
03-08-2002, 10:25:22
If that is Asher he likes Nickelback. Nuff said.

*End Is Forever*
03-08-2002, 11:39:10
Well, there aren't many good musicians coming out of Canada, so we should forgive him for sticking up for one of the awful ones. I mean, look at the alternative... Barenaked Ladies, Celine Dion, Sum-41?

Okay, I take that last one back. But most of you wouldn't...

Snapcase
03-08-2002, 12:05:29
He could potentially look back on past glories and become a fan of The band or Neil Young or Joni Mitchell...