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Sirius Black
02-06-2002, 21:06:10
So, I have a choice. I haven't really played many FPSs, though I have played the demos of these two great games. What attracts me to them is the idea of a story with the action.

So, my question is which of these two would you recommend and why?

Sean
02-06-2002, 21:22:59
For a shooter, Half-Life. It is well paced, and an entertaining play through. Multi-player is also good, and Team Fortress still rules. On the downside, there is no real replay value for the single player, and some of the sections (On A Rail) are really, really dull.

System Shock 2 is not an FPS. If you choose to be in the Psi-Ops or Navy you will not be handling much in the way of heavy weaponry. Even if you choose to be a Marine, you will not be shooting everything that moves. Weapons degrade and need maintenence, and ammo is scarce. As a Navy dude, I spent most of my time using one of the melee weapons: the wrench, crystal shard, or lightsaber-dealie.

System Shock 2 is a fucking good RPG. It is tough, intense, very scary (Rumbler in the basketball court!), and replayable (three main options).

In summary, I prefer SS2, but it is not an FPS :).

Sirius Black
02-06-2002, 21:26:04
Well, I'd consider it MORE an FPS :D. It just isn't RPG enough for me (I know, I'm an RPG snob ;)).

But you have to admit, SS2 is technically a FPS... it is in the First Person, and you have to shoot something sometime ;). It is just an RPG FPS instead of an Action FPS :D.

Herman
02-06-2002, 22:49:55
Hhaallff--lliiffee

Venom
02-06-2002, 22:51:10
Like I said in the other gay ass thread. Half-Life

Snapcase
02-06-2002, 23:04:55
Half-Life is a boring, lifeless platformer with a shit story and shit controls. SS2 is a PC RPG, that laready should warn you off. Get neither, get Mario 64 or something.

Sirius Black
02-06-2002, 23:54:53
:lol:

Snapcase stop being funny... oh, that wasn't intentional.

Herman
03-06-2002, 00:36:08
Snapcase thinks Half-Life is a platformer?
Shit controls? Did it ever occur to you to REMAP them?

Swedish logic is hilarious. :D

Sirius Black
03-06-2002, 00:58:49
Oh yes... and he warned me from RPGs, though knowing I love them ;).

Isn't Mario 64 (which isn't on the PC!!) more of a platformer than Half-Life? :hmm:

Herman
03-06-2002, 01:01:45
Mario 64 is A platformer. That's all it is. Mario jumps around collecting flying magical coins and jumps on people. :D

Half-Life is a First Person Shooter. Plain and simple. I don't see how he figured it was a platformer. I don't think he's even played the game, seeing as he doesn't seem to know you can bind/remap the controls to play as you want.

Shining1
03-06-2002, 06:40:51
Half-life is way better. I made it about 1% of the way through System Shock and got pissed off and quit. Halflife works well and has the best story ever in an FPS.

If you're an RPG snob, System Shock will cause you no end of annoyance. If you're an FPS snob, then Halflife was one of the greatest movements of your life:). No contest.

Herman
03-06-2002, 06:49:46
Halo's got a better story line than Half-Life.

Sean
03-06-2002, 08:51:27
Half-Life has a rubbish storyline.

Sirius, wait until Beta and Funky arrive. They will agree with me. System Shock 2 is one of the best games ever. Shining just doesn’t like it because it requires you to do things rawther than wander around talking to people. And it has mutated monkeys!

FunkyFingers
03-06-2002, 09:40:55
Half-Life is the best FPS there is - it's pure quality as a single player experience, and also mutliplayer. It's your seminal FPS action game.
System Shock 2 is a really awesome, scary, suspense thriller that plays from the First Person. SS2 seriously gives you the willies for most of the game - it's also bloody hard. You also have to think very carefully about every single action you make; what weapon to use, what upgrade paths to take etc. And it's really scary. I can't explain how well it sets up the sense of "fuck, I really don't like this, I can't go down there"...

The two are different animals that do appeal in different ways - MikeH loved Half-Life, but I can't see him liking SS2 that much as there's alot of RPGness in it.
I came to SS2 after having played Deus Ex - which I also loved.

Guynemer
03-06-2002, 13:39:53
As I said in the other thread, Deus Ex is the benchmark for storytelling and design in FPS. It also has RPG elements, much like SS2.

If, above all else, you want to be scared absolutely shitless, go with System Shock 2 (just thinking about it is giving me the willies... the zombies begging to be killed...). Otherwise, Deus Ex is the way to go.

Snapcase
03-06-2002, 13:43:39
Originally posted by Herman
Half-Life is a First Person Shooter. Plain and simple. I don't see how he figured it was a platformer. I don't think he's even played the game, seeing as he doesn't seem to know you can bind/remap the controls to play as you want.

In a first person shooter I expect to (a) Run around or sneak around and (b) Shoot things while avoiding incoming enemy fire. Not, and I stress not, execute a series of inch-perfect jumps on boxes hanging from chains in the cieling, jump from ladder to ladder around an elevator shaft, alternately jump over and duck under "electric currents" while running madly to avoid being fried by the built in time limit. I did remap (fuck you, by the way) the keys to the regular Quake2 WASDMouselook controls, but those are designed for you to be able to run in one direction while shooting accurately at an enemy in another direction. They're not designed for you to be able to accurately judge the distance of jumps. For that you'd need some sort of arcadey speedless 3d-person controls, not offered by Half-Life in anyway you look at it.

MDA
03-06-2002, 13:56:46
I played about halfway through SS2, got scared, and quit before having even seen a rumbler.

Those robo-madonnas and commandos were enough!
I heard the jumping puzzle near the end was bullshit.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
03-06-2002, 16:06:10
Given the fact that I own System Shock 2 and have completed it, but have had no compunction to go out and buy Half-Life, I'd have to go with System Shock 2. Great, and somewhat scary (it freaked Lady_of_Chicken out, and she was just watching me play the first bit of level 1!), FPRPG.

Herman
03-06-2002, 22:50:57
Originally posted by Snapcase
In a first person shooter I expect to (a) Run around or sneak around and (b) Shoot things while avoiding incoming enemy fire. Not, and I stress not, execute a series of inch-perfect jumps on boxes hanging from chains in the cieling, jump from ladder to ladder around an elevator shaft, alternately jump over and duck under "electric currents" while running madly to avoid being fried by the built in time limit.
So by your logic Medal of Honor is also a platformer since you must avoid stuff like barbed wire, climb fences, etc.

Half-Life is a first person shooter, Snapcase. Games that involving jumping and manuevering don't override existing classifications and become platformers. :gasmaske:

I did remap (fuck you, by the way) the keys to the regular Quake2 WASDMouselook controls, but those are designed for you to be able to run in one direction while shooting accurately at an enemy in another direction. They're not designed for you to be able to accurately judge the distance of jumps. For that you'd need some sort of arcadey speedless 3d-person controls, not offered by Half-Life in anyway you look at it.
I had no problem with it.

The problem here, as I see it, is you judged it as a platformer and played it as such. Then you whine because the controls are not that of a platformer.

Very Swedish.

Snapcase
03-06-2002, 23:18:51
No, honey, that was meant as an insult. Analogy and Sarcasm, obviously concepts foreign to Canadians.

It's not my fault that Valve can't design proper levels and have to retort to mad jumping skillz to insert any sort of interest into the game. Give me Quake 2 any day.

Herman
03-06-2002, 23:36:34
I loved Half-Life's levels.

If you can't jump in a FPS how the hell did you do well in Quake II?

And there really wasn't all that much jumping required. No more than Medal of Honor or most modern FPSes, actually.

Suckage of your own skills is not to be confused with suckage of a game.

Mario 64, for example -- that game sucked. A colorful little plumber jumping around in a relatively textureless world that used his fat ass to jump on things and kill them. Oh the gameplay!

(PS: Incase you forgot, we tend to live in a world where not everything is on the same levels as us. As such, it requires atechnique called "jumping" which most games have a use for. )

Snapcase
04-06-2002, 00:18:33
There's a difference between "jumping" and "pixel perfect precision-timed jumps". Jumping over a gap or two in the interest of good-looking level design is okay, making fifteen gratuitous jumps in a row, each at a different speed and angle is not, especially not from a first-person perspective.

Mario 64 is great. Best game ever designed. I could care less about the graphics (though I find them very nice indeed for a crap console), but the gameplay is simply amazing. Astounding game world, huge levels, brilliant quest choices. Total quality, and pioneering in the extreme.

Herman
04-06-2002, 00:40:44
Ohhhhhhhhhh, shut up and give me a hug.

I still love you, no matter how silly you are. :D

Venom
04-06-2002, 02:47:29
Even my retarded, fat fingered self managed just fine with Half-Life.

Sirius Black
04-06-2002, 03:44:42
Don't mind Snapcase... as in music, he is a snob in games, and just wishes to be unpopular because of it's 'coolness'.

Shining1
04-06-2002, 05:29:53
The boxes suspended from the ceiling only required you to jump right at the end. All the rest of them you just did by aiming at the next chain and moving forward - your horitizonal momentum just from running was enough to get you there.

Snap, your point about FPSs seemed to be that you can circle strafe like you are fucking a man, but you can't jump for shit?

That's a skillz problem. No wonder you preferred Quake2.

Sean
04-06-2002, 08:34:13
That bit was sodding easy. Now, the platformy bit towards the end was irritating.

Shining1
04-06-2002, 10:46:39
Long jumping was pretty cool:).

FunkyFingers
04-06-2002, 11:55:23
The "jump puzzle" sections in Half-Life were easy. If you've got the skills to go toe-to-toe with the Hawkman in the Quake arena, you should be able to manage a couple of piss easy jumps. Plus, I seem to remember that the level design in Half-Life was and still is considered to be lessons 1-10 in the good level design bible (well not really, but you know what I mean).

The grinding teeth puzzle at the end of SS2 is a bit annoying, strangely out of context with the rest of the game, but it doesn't last very long. The intense claustrophobia and constant fear of being eviscerated by mutants is something I've never experienced to that level in any other game. Buy it just for that.

Deus Ex - aaaaaaah. One of my favourite games I've ever played. Similar to SS2 in some ways, similar to Half-Life in some other ways. Bloody cool in most ways, and good enough to be able to play it a couple of times and find that things pan out differently when you do.

Tell you what, here's the soloution - Get all 3, play them all then tell us what YOU think?!

Sirius Black
07-06-2002, 00:42:56
But I already played Deus Ex... so I'll get all 2 and tell you what I think ;).

Shining1
07-06-2002, 04:58:51
If you're doing to do that why did you bother asking us?:)

Herman
07-06-2002, 05:34:40
To have fun with Snapcase I'm guessing :D

FunkyFingers
07-06-2002, 08:49:47
Originally posted by Sirius Black
But I already played Deus Ex... so I'll get all 2 and tell you what I think ;).

What did you think of Deus Ex? If you liked DE, you'll love SS2

Sirius Black
07-06-2002, 18:58:41
If you're doing to do that why did you bother asking us

I have to know which one to get first :D. If you know me, you know that if I have a plan, it won't stick. If I plan to buy both, I'll buy one, forget about the other, until a year from now and ask 'Half Life v. Wolfenstien" or something :D.

What did you think of Deus Ex? If you liked DE, you'll love SS2

It was fun, but I never finished it.

--

Oh, and I got System Shock 2 today. Should be playing it shortly :D.

FunkyFingers
07-06-2002, 21:54:54
You didn't finish DE? A travesty! It's got at least 3 endings, and there are persistent rumours of a hidden 4th ending!

You've got SS2? Quality! Report back on what you thought of the first couple of hours aboard the SS Rickenbacker...

Sirius Black
07-06-2002, 23:27:12
It's interesting...

Kind of spooky. Very nice setting of the mood, from the beginning. I just quit after dying twice at a hard portion of the game with those damned monkies and only 6 bullets! I have to learn how to use the wrench better.

Oh well, I'll probably play more tonight.

--

And I saw my friend finish DE, so I saw the 3 endings :D.

FunkyFingers
10-06-2002, 08:25:09
The mutant monkies, nasty bastards! Smash them in with the wrench - the wrench is a vital weapon if you are to get anywhere in this game - ammo is a real commodity and the regularity with which your guns wear out and jam, good melee skills are vital. Don't forget to search bodies after you've killed them - also try to avoid drinking the booze, it knocks your PSI points out!

What training did you use at the beginning? When I played I went heavy on the tech skills and agility, later with the alien tech, so became a nimble alien hacker. Paid for it later I felt when I couldn't use PSI skills very well, or had the skills to use the heavy weaponry.

Another tip - inventory space is extremely limited and, because you need certain skill levels to even use most of the weapons/tools/upgrades, don't just hoard everything. Take and keep only what you think you need, or is in a charcacter path you think you'll be developing.

The Mad Monk
10-06-2002, 13:18:57
One thing to remember WRT the above post is that, barring the occsional glitch, the game does remember where everything is left. Setting up stashes next to elevators is a common and effective strategy.

FunkyFingers
10-06-2002, 13:43:48
Good point Monkey.
I had a huge stash right back at the first group of upgrade terminals on the level you start on - once the lift is working it's very handy to have a safe zone to return to, stop and think, plan your next attack, plan what you're carrying, make upgrades and then return to the task at hand.
Of course when you go up on to the commander levels later on, it gets to be a long return journey and my pc seemed to take ages to load levels later on.

Sean
10-06-2002, 16:30:01
Originally posted by FunkyFingers
What training did you use at the beginning? When I played I went heavy on the tech skills and agility, later with the alien tech, so became a nimble alien hacker. Paid for it later I felt when I couldn't use PSI skills very well, or had the skills to use the heavy weaponry.
Definitely build up your PSI on the side. I didn’t use it for the whole game, but found that it was absolutely essential towards the end. The Tech skills are most useful early on, because you can get more ammo.

Get the Crystal Shard! I can’t remember where it is (the Bio-thingy deck?), but it is an awesome melee weapon.

FunkyFingers
10-06-2002, 16:37:29
Aah, the crystal shard...
The O/S upgrades are damn difficult to decide upon.

MDA
10-06-2002, 17:04:54
The shard for most everything, the laser sword for bots. I never had PSI, but I didn't get near the end either.

Guynemer
10-06-2002, 18:04:47
I don't really recall ever using PSI; beat the game as a "pure" hacker, with mad melee skills (thank heaven for the Shard).

Sirius Black
10-06-2002, 18:41:14
Ah, fuck... no PSI... I went as mostly a Marine, with maintaince and hacking boosts.

I was thinking Navy at first... I'm still early in the game, where I can go back and start over. Not sure if I did what was best when picking, oh well.

The Mad Monk
10-06-2002, 19:47:30
Either way should work -- you have plenty of time to adapt, especially if you remember to always be on the lookout for modules. Go up every ladder, jump to every feasible ledge, look in every shdaowed corner.

If you're a perfectionist, there are lists out there with every module you can find.

FunkyFingers
10-06-2002, 21:26:49
I think I ended up trying to be too much of a jack of all trades, so I was never a really good weapons handler and never got to be a really good PSI ops - although I did max out on hacking. Difficult decisions to make I guess, but ultimately it shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the game - play it the way you feel is right to play it.
Definitely explore as much as you possibly can. One thing I found though is that PSI Pull lets you get stuff that you couldn't otherwise reach...

Deacon
12-06-2002, 05:46:00
Sin is $10 at Chips & Bits, and Oni is $10 at EBgames.

Darkstar
12-06-2002, 07:39:36
Sounds too pricey still.

I hate jump puzzles. I just don't have the mad reflexes anymore for them. A small series jump puzzle, I might be able to handle. But a long series... Even when I was a teen and had the bleeding edge reflexes to not screw up even the longest jump puzzles, I found them boring. Seems like an artificial and very brain dead answer for making a level 'interesting'.

Well, I can go ahead and give away both my Half Life and SS2 then. What other games have long series of jump puzzles?

Sean
12-06-2002, 08:26:56
SS2 has precisely one jump puzzle, which is a long way in. Sure, deny yourself two of the best games of the last decade because they have one simple jumping puzzle each.

FunkyFingers
12-06-2002, 08:36:26
DS - Listen to Sean, he's totally right. SS2 has one jump puzzle, very near the end, which isn't even remotely difficult. You'd be missing out on about 30 hours of excellent gameplay before you even get there if you give up now.
Likewise Half-Life, there are hardly any jump puzzles, and those that there are are easy.

Sean
12-06-2002, 08:38:08
Originally posted by FunkyFingers
DS - Listen to Sean, he's totally right.
That is sig material right there.

FunkyFingers
18-06-2002, 08:39:13
How are you getting on with SS2?

Sirius Black
19-06-2002, 21:02:38
I like it :).

I'm on Deck 3 right now, after beating Deck 2 (Science) and Deck 1 (Engineering)

It really sets up the mood good :). Very scary and believable, and the lack of bullets makes it even more cool. With the upgrades, I pumped some into hack and repair. I also filled up energy weapons and standard, so I could chuck the wrench and use the light rapier I found. I have a working shotgun as well.

I really like the story and the mood. It's really surprising.


Good buy :).

FunkyFingers
20-06-2002, 08:35:14
Light rapier - remind you of a lightsaber, no?!

It's a super game innit - how about being able to see ghosts? The voices in your head? The monkeys? The mutants who beg you to kill them? The voice-logs of the people on the ship?

If you have the shotgun - don't forget when you search dead people, if they have a weapon, even if it's jammed, pick it up and unload it - you'll get 1 shotgun shell. Doesn't sound much, but every shell counts in this game.

Sirius Black
20-06-2002, 17:13:23
Ah, good advice! The game locked up on me yesterday for the first time :(.

I was going in the Hydroponics Section A area (into the breeding area). Oh well, I didn't save too far from where it locked it.

It is a great game. Really draws you in, and spooks the Hell out of you :D. The monkey... argh! They suck! :D

Sean
20-06-2002, 17:16:29
Hydroponics was the worst bit, for me.

FunkyFingers
21-06-2002, 08:41:53
Hydroponics? That was a great level.
You did well to get as far as Hydro without it crashing - I had bad stability problems with this game - mainly due to running out of HD space - every time you re-load, it seems to hog more and more virtual memory...

The monkeys get worse by the way. Be afraid.

Sirius Black
21-06-2002, 18:00:52
:nervous:

Damned monkies!

The Mad Monk
22-06-2002, 09:39:10
One of the happier moments in the game happened for me in one of the cargo holds, just after getting severely mauled by a monkey and having to reload.

I realized that the critter had to be around a corner behind some boxes, and had attacked just after I had gone through a cargo door. So instead of going through the door, this time I went through the narrow space between the boxes (first thought I wouldn't fit), turned the corner, and there it stood, facing the other way.

The THUNK of a wrench on the base of a skull never sounded so...sweet.

:D

FunkyFingers
24-06-2002, 08:47:01
Aah, the cargo holds. Spooky.
I had a great moment in that area too - when the big robot droids start stomping around, I lowered one of the elevators right on top of it, destroyed it without me even firing a shot. Heh. :D

Sean
24-06-2002, 08:48:06
I don’t think I ever had it that easy :(.

FunkyFingers
24-06-2002, 10:05:06
It was in the cargo hold that I first used Psi-Pull too - there were several boxes of Nanites well out of reach - used the psi skill, et voila! Having discovered this, I then went back to some of the other areas and spotted quite a lot of stuff that was hidden out of reach for the non-psi-skilled player.

FunkyFingers
09-07-2002, 08:31:52
How are you getting on with SS2?

The Mad Monk
19-07-2002, 18:38:57
...WELL???

Sirius Black
19-07-2002, 19:16:35
I haven't been playing too much really... The bug scared me...

:nervous:

Seriously, I haven't had much time to play more.