View Full Version : lemon chicken and civil war

24-07-2013, 20:25:34
first, the easy and the delicious.

two chicken breasts
dry onion
2 lemons

put olive oil in the casarole and heat it up

place the chicken breasts and chaute(SP??) them
same with garlic and onion
put in oregano, salt and pepper

chaute, chaute chauteee

put out with two freshly squeezed lemons' lemon juice.

add water, put some patatoes in the casarole too.
middle fire, 1 hour

delicious :love:

( i also suspect that rice also goes well with this)

24-07-2013, 20:30:04
also ive been reading about the civil war after the 2ww.

there's this book written by university proffessors from britain, australia and greece.

i like reading about a topic from the "outside perspective" i think i'm trained to take out the bias it inevitably has (every point of view does).

now, it's a fascinating topic and they didnt teach any of that at school. all they said was be proud plato is your grandpa.

there were always half whispers though about the civil war.

and seeing as the country is falling back on a very devicive rhetoric I figured why not learn from the source.

fascinating story.. very gruesome, unfortuantely and busts lots of myths, explaines many realities.

24-07-2013, 20:47:15
everything in this country is so strange.
first, it was not plagued by multiethnicity. vast majority greeks.
it was not plagued by multireligionism. vast majority orthodox.
it was not plagued by severe class differentials either.
yet it manifested the most gruesome civil war europe has seen after 2ww.

why was that?

it seems it is particulalry vulnerable to international turmoils. (hint for easy foreign interventions).

and the STATE. This is at the heart of it.

it's all about the state.

the state is so involved, was, is, will be FOREVER, that everyone tried to procelytize it.
right wing and left wing.

right wing was (not all of them) fucking nazi collaborators.
Left wing was antifascist heros, although they did commit attrocities.

now in yalta malta, whatever, greece was deemed to belong to the "western block".

that means the the UK and USA supported the fascists (figures :p ) and the left wing didnt get support from USSR, they got their armament from frecked from the behind german nazi runaways. they did get some minor support from albania, yugoslavia and bulgaria. satelite USSR states.

but it was decided that greece was to be in the west.

Now the great thing is that even an american or was he english diplomat said that the right wing (aka fascists) that were charged to rule (since greece was in the west) had an educational system that was completely backwards and generally tried to impose a "dead culture".

in fact, the left wing (aka communists) proposed society reformation was vastly more just, equalitarian, progressive and innovative.

of course after 70 years, many things have been judged but it's interesting.

24-07-2013, 20:56:48
and the slavophones come into play here. YES frecking fyromulans!
greece had 3 distinct minorities. small but distinct.

first, albanians in the northwest. they collaborated with the nazis. after that they were decimated and expelled. not a tear shed i guess.
second, there were some muslims (nothest greece) those were turkophons but also ancient balkan tribes like the pomaks. those did not exactly collaborate, anyway, mostly spared.

but none of those had developed a distinct national identity. the lbanians didnt think of themslevs as belonging to albania. the muslims didnt have a separate national identity either.

the ones that did (brace yourselves) were the SLAVOPHONES!!! Yes those pesky people did had a distinct national identity. the MACEDONIANS (lol). they didnt identify with the greek national identity. and get this, they WANTED a separatist movement.

now who else didnt have a greek national identity? the greek communists. yes.

what was the most strong colalboration?

slavophones and communist greeks (especially in the later years)

the greek society was appalled, that the reds would frateernize with poeple that were against territorial integrity and...

RIP red threat....

24-07-2013, 20:57:39
apart form that, though, i'd say the reds was very cool


24-07-2013, 21:14:15
now I dont know who's bright idea was for the reds to fraternize so batantly with the slavophones but at one time the civil basis for the reds was huge. they were THE prototype antifascists, justice defenders, egalitarian partisans.
they could have had the leader cheerleader girl. THAT cool.

BUT 1. the fraternization (a no, no) who was the dick that made that decision? I have to keep reading. propably zachariades. who is he? I'll find out.

2. nazi bummed in the butt and left weapons behind can only get you so far. after some time the weapons run out.
but the fascists (or, the nationalists, OR as the book states, a veritable statement to the Reds panspermia all mightness, the anticommunists - when you define yourself by what you oppose, what you oppose has great power) so the fascists/nationalists/anticommunists had the unlimited support of the UK and when it crapped out, of the USA.
They also played heavily on the fact that they preserved national territorial integrity but they were (as all conservative people are) very backwards.

people that collaborated with the nazis (that starved greeks to death so that they could go on killing people and thei favorites, the jews) made huge fortunes. because greece was PLUNTERED during the occupation. the fascist collaboratorsm that were now the LOLOLOL paragons of "Democracy" did not have their illegally gained properties seized.

HUGE sense of injustice.

24-07-2013, 21:20:08
however the book states (in its charming naivity style) that if there was not a civil war the reconstruction would be far more quicker. all major routes were routinely bombed by the reds for years after the end of the 2ww. i suppose that was the begining of the marshal plan too.

plus the attrocities commited during the civil war live on, it would seem.
it's everywhere here today.
the gov. is the today's nazi collaborators. the opposing coalition IS the reds.

or so they'd like to think. it's not the same. but the roots are definitely there.

24-07-2013, 21:48:35
ah, so in wiki it says zachariades was sort of the greek stalin. no wonder he made one screwed up decision after the other.
plus he looks like a midget toddler. probably beat up at school.

he was found hanged in his house in siberia. :eek:

apparently the KGB was involved. allegendly he displayed "abnormalities" from the maoist movement?

anyway. he is characterized as one of the most controversial figures of the civil war. no shit i'd say.

24-07-2013, 21:50:45
hmmm and after the collapse of the UUSR his remains were retuned to greece by russia. and the communist party paid their respects. does that mean they dont recognize, the huge damage he did to the whatever cause they were fighting?
except if national identity even that of patriotism, is completely foreign to the communists.
they're naive if they think that though. propably why they're stuck at 6% of the electorate.

24-07-2013, 21:58:37
all this is too heavy i'm going to bed


04-08-2013, 21:41:30
amazingly amazing stuff.
i'm at page 170 of 312 pages.
analysis after analysis after analysis.
data and data as credible as available.

full blown civil war. we will have one again. (not really but it's good to know your history so you know where you'll stand when the frecked up troika will rise unemplyement to 34% and society will collapse).

the communist party had been played for fool. by stalin and not so much by tito.
the quest for equality was legitimate the main opposing forces was the communist party itself for allying with plans to cut off northern greece (macedonia) and give it to the reds.
the fascists, their white terrorism was amply supported by the UK but it crapped out. then US stepped in. and sort of very violent macarthurism, greek style, reigned supreme.

there were multiple fractions. the royalists (who wanted the king) supported by little churchil. the liberals, supported by the US. the commies, supported by Tito and stalin. the centrists, supported by the US.

it was an enormous bordello! with white terrorism (= terrorism of the right wing) reigning supreme.
commies were the best fighters. with megre means they massacred everybody. (tactical national army).
the fascists had planes, artilerry all given by the US. the commies had meagre means mainly given by tito and the bazzilion of armements left by the nazis.

Now the one big stigma is the alliance of the reds with the slavophones.
THAT was the mistake. It is repudiated by the commies but they did allegendly supported "full national rights to the slavophones". aka the recession of greek macedonia to stalin. THAT's what hunts them, even now.

04-08-2013, 21:55:04
another interesting opinion is that the civil war was not unavoidable.
but i dont think so.
turns out as much as powerful a left wing wave existed, exists and will exist in greece, there is as much a big right wing wave. the country is equally divided between the two.
this is still the case today. it is good that the country managed to preserve territorial integrity and didnt turn out like korea.
that's why democracy is so important. but democracy is not upheld "pristine clear" by neither of two fractions. it's their interminable fighting, that exists even today as a low key underground "institutionalized" civil war that could bring forth this democratic equilibrium. assuming we kick the troika out. that's number one goal.

04-08-2013, 22:09:18
and as i understand it, albania had always been sort of the backward of greece. the battle ground for kicking italians in the butt in ww2. the basis for commie excursions into greece during the civil war.
the paranoia brought on by greece (that it would invade) turned hodja (the communist leader of albania) into a paranoid person, completely cutting off his country and bulding majinaux lines all over its southern border.
looks like albania has been the butt rubbing clothe of greece for many decades.
now that was a nation. that's such a complicated relation greece has with that country it even pales with the relation it had with turkey,

BUT! if the right wing can support the claim that the commies wanted the recession of nothern greece and its surrender to stalin, then the same can be said for the right wing. their allegience with the west sort of sold out half of cyprus to turkey.

so it's not like greece "won".
and yes, their can be no reconciliation. left wing has no national identity. right wing uses national identity to fatten up its coffers.
we need something that transcends both sides to stick it to modern day nazi economists and reclaim all of south europe. a europe of employment and zero tolerence for german or any other western firm coming in and trying to get what's ours.
and ONLY the left wing can provide that.

But, it needs a small injection of national blood in it. A national communism.

04-08-2013, 23:07:20
of course that will never happen. it's just wishful thinking.
germany will remain in history as the frecker in europe for a third time, having condemned millions of people in poverty. Even the US looks good now. If germany has made even the US look good, just imagine how frecked up germany is. hated by millions.
at least obama has been pushing for the relaxation of austerity, its cabinet has recognized this will lead to the breakup of the EU, something that the US does not want.
how much longer...
if we had an honest leadership... even the italian PM has come here asking for a common front against the nazis. but the nazi collaborators we have for gov. will not do it.
and the left wing loses so much, SO MUCH by their lack of national identity. they could have taken the power in one night if not for that.

05-08-2013, 01:18:45
i was so frecking amused. when the brit uni profs described the main failings of the tactical national army: that political interventions had crippled it!!!! It's exactly the same like today with regards to civil administration.
What happened in the 40's is the US stepped in and kind of cleaned the slate. Hugely propped up the national tactical army and "shielded" it off political intervantion. The best generals got promoted. Not the ones who had connections to the political parties
That's how the frecking fascists beat the red fascists.

That's how the current left wing should proceed.
First, cut off their "anarchist" section.
Remake their illegal immigrant agenda (EVEN STALIN WAS AGAINST ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION). illegal immigration specifies minimal wages. Now get with it fuckheads.

After the left wing has stopped its irrational immigration agenda that allianates half of greece, it should focus on what every-god-damn gov. that has ever claimed power in greece has promised but non delivered.
The crushing of nepotism and corruption.
We need a vehicle for reformation and the left wing could be it. But can it, really?
It surely possesses all of the democratic, free power that greece deserves. Can it make it work?
In september we'll know 'cause the troika is too stupid to control evolution as it is now.

05-08-2013, 01:24:08
meanwhile, don't ever, ever let those people tell you what to do.


05-08-2013, 01:27:23

05-08-2013, 02:04:23

05-08-2013, 02:26:44
and I was thinking. spending time with my grandma.
My great uncle was tortured untill killed by the gestapo.
He had blown up a bridge and killed tenths of nazis and their tanks.
He must have been a royalist though. My grandma side was not communist.
The gestapo captured and tortured him and then let him go to the house to his mother (the mother of my grandma) and two days later he died from the torture.


And my grandpa. He was from the left side. The fucking english caught him and expelled him to egypt for six months. His family didn't even know if he was alive or dead. Fucking english. The same nazis as the nazis.
Nothing has changed.

And half of greece is like me.

05-08-2013, 02:46:18
and grandpa didnt even fight for the commies. He was 20 years old for freck's sake.

I got so angry when in the book it said that the english and their greek collaborators took left wing fighters and "ALLEGENDLY" civilians to exile.
fuck you uni profs

every sense of resistance is justified against the western nazis

05-08-2013, 02:49:49
few things surpass the german monstrosity it's true.
but it was not "allegendly" for the english either.
so i better hunt down a book by some greek writer that tells it like it really is.
el alamein for my grandpa. lol he made tons of jokes about it.

05-08-2013, 02:51:29
and when he got back to athens... the stories he has told me.
the city was divided, tottaly devided by the fascists and the left wing. even if you had a beard (like my grandpa and all of the exiles had) you could be shot. by the "democratic" right wing and their chuchill supporters.

05-08-2013, 02:57:37
grandma sometimes calls me by the name of her brother that was killed by the gestapo. she says i have the same smile and the same size as he did. excuberant and happy and feisty like her brother (before he was returned a human wreck by the german nazis). i can only hope i have the chance

05-08-2013, 03:01:35
his mother tried to save him but his wounds from the torture were too great and he died in her arms.
now fucking, fucking germans

05-08-2013, 03:51:07
and it didnt stop there. if only. my mom was not allowed to get a job even after she finished university, because her dad was on exile. that was the "democracy" of the west. of the english. FUCK THEM.


it was only after papandreou and the socialism got a hold of greece after the dictatorship (again supported by the US/UK) that greece got normality.

once again the battle looms. i know where i stand


05-08-2013, 04:11:42
we have beaten them for 20 years. Now AGAIN it is the time to beat them


05-08-2013, 04:18:34

05-08-2013, 04:24:52
let us not forget the tortures of the US/UK backed dictatorship.
get the power back now again

05-08-2013, 04:26:15
everytime you see a german, an english (americans are too stupid) THINK and ATTACK

05-08-2013, 04:30:53
austrians were the ones who held the occupation of greece during the WW2.
dont get fooled by the phillelinism of germans/english/austrians. it's fake.


05-08-2013, 04:38:33
now let's go. september. elections and it's over

05-08-2013, 04:41:31

05-08-2013, 04:49:22

and these behind irons....
and those below the ground...

hush.. the bells will sing any minute now