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Back!
08-08-2012, 09:30:25
today I felt like starting a properly named thread

as of yesterday Aug 7th
200 events, 624 total medals

RkG G S B M RkM M%624 G/M
1 CHN 34 21 18 73 1 11.7% 46.6%
2 USA 30 19 21 70 2 11.2% 42.9%
3 GBR 22 13 13 48 3 7.7% 45.8%
4 KOR 12 5 6 23 9 3.7% 52.2%
5 RUS 10 18 20 48 3 7.7% 20.8%
6 FRA 8 9 11 28 6 4.5% 28.6%
7 ITA 7 6 4 17 10 2.7% 41.2%
8 GER 6 14 7 27 7 4.3% 22.2%
9 KAZ 6 0 1 7 22 1.1% 85.7%
10 NED 5 3 6 14 11 2.2% 35.7%
11 AUS 4 12 9 25 8 4.0% 16.0%
12 IRI 4 3 1 8 17 1.3% 50.0%
13 HUN 4 2 3 9 13 1.4% 44.4%
14 PRK 4 0 1 5 26 0.8% 80.0%
15 CUB 3 3 1 7 22 1.1% 42.9%
16 BLR 3 2 3 8 17 1.3% 37.5%
17 NZL 3 1 5 9 13 1.4% 33.3%
18 RSA 3 1 0 4 30 0.6% 75.0%
19 UKR 3 0 6 9 13 1.4% 33.3%
20 JPN 2 13 14 29 5 4.6% 6.9%
21 ROU 2 5 2 9 13 1.4% 22.2%
22 DEN 2 4 2 8 17 1.3% 25.0%
23 BRA 2 1 5 8 17 1.3% 25.0%
23 POL 2 1 5 8 17 1.3% 25.0%
25 JAM 2 1 1 4 30 0.6% 50.0%
26 CRO 2 1 0 3 36 0.5% 66.7%
27 ETH 2 0 2 4 30 0.6% 50.0%
28 ESP 1 4 1 6 25 1.0% 16.7%
29 CAN 1 3 7 11 12 1.8% 9.1%
30 SWE 1 3 3 7 22 1.1% 14.3%
31 CZE 1 3 1 5 26 0.8% 20.0%
32 KEN 1 2 2 5 26 0.8% 20.0%
33 SLO 1 1 2 4 30 0.6% 25.0%
34 GEO 1 1 1 3 36 0.5% 33.3%
35 DOM 1 1 0 2 42 0.3% 50.0%
35 SUI 1 1 0 2 42 0.3% 50.0%
37 LTU 1 0 1 2 42 0.3% 50.0%
38 ALG 1 0 0 1 56 0.2%
38 GRN 1 0 0 1 56 0.2%
38 VEN 1 0 0 1 56 0.2%
41 MEX 0 3 2 5 26 0.8%
42 COL 0 3 1 4 30 0.6%
43 EGY 0 2 0 2 42 0.3%
44 SVK 0 1 3 4 30 0.6%
45 ARM 0 1 2 3 36 0.5%
45 AZE 0 1 2 3 36 0.5%
45 BEL 0 1 2 3 36 0.5%
45 IND 0 1 2 3 36 0.5%
49 EST 0 1 1 2 42 0.3%
49 INA 0 1 1 2 42 0.3%
49 MGL 0 1 1 2 42 0.3%
49 NOR 0 1 1 2 42 0.3%
49 SRB 0 1 1 2 42 0.3%
49 TUN 0 1 1 2 42 0.3%


the table is sorted as usual by G-S-B
but I added a column with the ranking by total medals (RkM)
one with the % of medals earned vs the total
and one with the G/M ratio

useful basis for discussion, if the 2 or 3 readers of this forum so wish
now I have to rush this in, as the first finals of the day in Canoe sprint already took place

K1 1000 : NOR - CAN - GER
C1 1000 : GER - ESP - CAN

Back!
08-08-2012, 10:01:46
with these results, germany took 7th place from Italy

but sticking to yesterday's table, you see how Russia has the same 48 medals as GB, but only 10 golds

we have CHN + USA with 70+ M each
then GB & RUS with 48 M
then 5 countries with 23 to 29 M
then ITA 17, NED 14 & CAN 11 (they just got to 13 with today's Canoing)
then 4 teams with 9 M, and the rest descending

France argued in 2008 that they got serveral M but were poorly ranked behind countries who got much less, because of the few golds

same here, they're just above Italy by +1G albeit they have +11M
and they're behind KOR who have less M

you could say that M show the depth and width of your whole sporting movement, whereas G show your ability to excel and focus on single goals once you get yourself into something

which should be the desirable balance?

see for instance

JPN 29M 2G 6.9%
CAN 11M 1G 9.1%
SWE 7M 1G 14.3%
AUS 25M 4G 16.0%
RUS 48M 10G 20.8%
GER 27M 6G 22.2%
FRA 28M 7G 28.6%

KOR 23M 12G 52.2%
CRO 3M 2G 66.7%
RSA 4M 3G 75.0%
PRK 5M 4G 80.0%
KAZ 7M 6G 85.7%

in between, with have the top countries of the table with 46.6%, 42.9%, 45.8%

so, we might say that anything in the 35-40% to 50% spectrum is in the average

France is just slightly below, they have a deep movement, able to place their atheltes in the top 3 in a range of discipline/events, thye just might have missed/flopped in one or two (they had unprecedented success in swimming, but got a ZERO in Fencing!)
they complained about Italy, who are instead just in the average balance

KOR is churning golds with impressive regularity in several disciplines, rather than lackin a movement I'd say they were good to go beyond their limits in a couple disciplines

KAZ instead, which is not a small country, are relying on the exploits of a few stars, beyond them just mediocrity

GER and RUS are climbing up now (as are AUS doing a bit too), still we can say they aren't back to their standards yet

bur I don't think JPN will console themselves with their 13S and 14B
they'll probably regard their meager 2 Golds as a disaster...
they have +4M than in 2008 but -7G !!!

Back!
08-08-2012, 10:12:40
WOW

K1 1000 : NOR - CAN - GER
C1 1000 : GER - ESP - CAN
K2 1000 : HUN - POR - GER
K4 500W: HUN - GER - BLR

GER got at 31M with 7-15-9

Hungary with the TWO golds enter the top 10 in front of Kaz, with 6-2-3 (and a G/M ration now of 55.5%)

CAN aggravate their case, now with 1-4-8 their still single G vs 13M gives a 7.7 ratio

that silver is the FIRST medal for Portugal in these Games

Back!
08-08-2012, 10:26:15
BTW, browsing here and there, apart the "sure" medals for those who reached semifinals in Boxing, as two bronzes get awarded there

we have a few sure medals in Sailing too

in 49er, probably the most spectacular class, the gaps before today's Medal Race are already so wide that Gold to AUS and Silver to NZL are already assigned
the Finns can take the Bronze from the Danes just by getting ahead of them
GBR, FRA and AUT would instead need a 4-5 places advantage

in Men's 470, Gold and Silver will go to AUS and GBR, with the british needing a 3 places advantage in tomorrow Medal Race to snatch the gold
the Bronze will be fought by ARG & ITA, the latters needing to make up 2 places (with also NZL and FRA in the fray, but these need to win while the Argies sink at the bottom)

so AUS will get G+G, or G+S from these two classes

Funko
08-08-2012, 10:33:17
I don't think you can really analyse it like that. Most of the teams who've won a small number of medals aren't statistically significant enough to influence a trend of the patterns of medals. eg.. Grenada and two other teams have 100% gold. (you missed them for some reason)

We should see that the teams who have won a lot of medals start to fall into a pattern where they tend towards having 33% golds, so I think you can see that the top 3 are overperforming in golds and Russia is underperforming.

Funko
08-08-2012, 10:34:25
And it's a consequence of sorting the table by golds that you might expect teams overperforming in golds to be at the top? Sorted by numbers of medals, or 3 pts for gold, 2 for silver, 1 for bronze would be ideal I think.

Back!
08-08-2012, 10:47:41
Most of the teams who've won a small number of medals aren't statistically significant enough to influence a trend of the patterns of medals. eg.. Grenada and two other teams have 100% gold. (you missed them for some reason)

I left them intentionally out exactly for that reason
:)

Back!
08-08-2012, 10:59:59
Sorted by numbers of medals, or 3 pts for gold, 2 for silver, 1 for bronze would be ideal I think.

of course, teams who win few golds would prefer that :D

that's the official, or at least default sorting presented on the official site
I think CIO official documents too reflected GSB ranking in recent Olympics

after all, everybody strive to win
silver and bronze are just "consolation"...
thus I agree that who wins 1 more gold should be ranked ahead, regardless silvers and bronzes

then you can use S&B to reason about the width and depth of their movement, as I said before

I recall when I was a boy (we're talking Mexico or Munich here...) that on newspapers the medal tables were calculated assingning 5 to a gold, 3 to a Silver and 1 to a Bronze

for recent IAAF WC or similar events, I also had found placement tables, which assigned 87654321 points to the finalists of each race/event, and drew a ranking on that

but such data are getting always harder to find, despite (or because!) the web sites are getting ever more modern with new frills and technologies...

Funko
08-08-2012, 12:02:24
That's the ranking system for the old Athletics World Cup meetings. I think it's different now it's continental cup. Not sure if the European Cup still scores that way.

Back!
08-08-2012, 13:11:25
in 49er, probably the most spectacular class, the gaps before today's Medal Race are already so wide that Gold to AUS and Silver to NZL are already assigned
the Finns can take the Bronze from the Danes just by getting ahead of them
GBR, FRA and AUT would instead need a 4-5 places advantage


FIN got 10th and last, but AUT won
however, DEN got 3rd, just 2 places behind AUT and secured their bronze

Back!
08-08-2012, 13:16:41
and the Aussies overtake the Dutch for 11th in the Medal Table
would they defend from GBR the other predicted gold in men 470 tomorrow too they'd jump at 9th ahead HUN & KAZ

MoSe
08-08-2012, 14:48:17
Italy Women Volleyball National Team records

WL = World Grand Prix (= men's World League)
WG = World Grand Champions Cup (= football Confederations Cup)

89 EC Bronze
99 EC Bronze
00 OG 9th
01 EC Silver
02 WC Gold
04 WL Silver
04 OG 5th
05 WL Silver
05 EC Silver
06 WL Bronze
07 WL Bronze
07 WC Gold
07 EC Gold
08 WL Bronze
08 OG 5th
09 WG Gold
09 EC Gold
10 WL Bronze
11 WC Gold
12 OG 6th


South Korea Women Volleyball National Team recent records

99 WC 4th
99 WL 6th
00 WL 6th
00 OG 8th
01 WL 7th
01 WG 6th
02 WC 6th
03 WC 9th
03 WL 6th
04 WL 11th
04 OG 5th
05 WL 9th
05 WG 6th
06 WC 13th
06 WL 9th
07 WC 8th
08 OG DNQ
09 WL 12th
09 WG 5th
10 WC 13th
11 WC 9th
11 WL 9th

IN SUMMARY:
Italy's women volley, albeit not as strong as men have been in the '90s, are the reigning world champions (twice) and got several podiums over the last decade world level competitions
FIVB ranking 4

Korea
never got past QF since 99 (and often not even TO QF) in world level competitions
FIVB ranking 15

BUT
Italy at Olympics failed to get to QF in 00 and got out at QF in 04 & 08

RESULT
Korea played their A-game, Italy played at their 70-80%, and deservedly got out
is it a curse, or an intrinsic limit???

Italy's men too, who were Team of the Century thanks to their '90s domination, and albeit in decline could still get many top world results in the last decade, never managed to win a gold at the Olympics (2S & 2B)

in few minutes they'll give it another try vs USA in the QF

current FIVB men ranking:
USA 5th, Italy 6th

Funko
08-08-2012, 16:19:34
Big talk before the games about the Olympics Ashes, who would finish higher in the medal table GB or Australia

The two sports ministers had a bet. The Aussie has conceded and now has to row a length of Eton Dornay wearing a Union Jack or something.

I am starting to wonder if we can beat the Aussie total for Sydney.

We've already smashed the number of golds, just working on total number of medals.

Back!
09-08-2012, 07:10:46
this begs for a study about the home effect at the Olympics!

:)

Back!
09-08-2012, 07:16:23
and hey MoSe, your italian men looked in distress both in Volley and Waterpolo, and they both regrouped and sent out the reigning champions at QF stage!

:beer:

Back!
09-08-2012, 08:40:28
the Queen of the Games, the discipline with most events i.e medals awarded
27 so far, 20 still to go in these last 3 days (except Men's Marathon on Sunday)

I hope this table is compact enough to allow comparison between 2008 and 2012 so far


MEN 2012 WOMEN MEN 2008 WOMEN
G S B G S B G S B G S B
100 JAM JAM USA JAM USA JAM JAM TRI USA JAM JAMx2
110H USA USA JAM AUS USA USA CUB USA USA USA AUS CAN
4x100 JAM TRI JPN RUS BEL NGR
200 USA JAM USA JAM USA USA JAM USA JAM
400 GRN DOM TRI USA GBR USA USA USA USA GBR JAM USA
400H DOM USA PUR RUS USA CZE USA USA USA JAM USA GBR
4x400 USA BAH RUS USA RUS JAM
800 KEN SUD KEN KEN KEN MAR
1500 ALG USA MAR KEN NZL FRA KEN UKR UKR
3000S KEN FRA KEN RUS TUN ETH KEN FRA KEN RUS KEN RUS
5000 ETH KEN KEN ETH TUR ETH
10k GBR USA ETH ETH KEN KEN ETH ETH KEN ETH TUR USA
20k W CHN GUA CHN RUS ECU AUS RUS NOR ITA
50k W - - - ITA AUS RUS - - -
Marat ETH KEN RUS KEN MAR ETH ROM KEN CHN
Long GBR AUS USA USA RUS USA PAN RSA CUB BRA RUS NGR
Tripl KAZ COL UKR POR GBR BAH CMR RUS GRE
High RUS USA GBR+ RUS GBR RUS BEL CRO RUS
Pole USA CUB RUS AUS RUS UKR RUS USA RUS
Shot POL GER USA BLR NZL RUS POL USA BLR NZL BLR BLR
Discs GER IRN EST CRO RUS CHN EST POL LTU USA CUB UKR
Hammr HUN SLO JPN SLO BLR BLR BLR CUB CHN
Javel NOR LAT FIN CZE RUS GER
Combn GBR GER RUS USA BLR CUB UKR USA RUS

there had been 3 podium sweeps in Beijing
most amazing here is that USA who got all the medals in Men 400, didn't even get a single athlete in London final

Back!
09-08-2012, 08:57:21
GER won the Gold in C2 1000 (in fornt of BLR and RUS) and took 6th place in the Medal Table from France

Back!
09-08-2012, 09:56:51
Germany and Hungary continue in reaping medals from Canoe Sprint

the 4 today morning finals:

M C2 1000 GER BLR RUS
M K4 1000 AUS HUN CZE
W K1 500 HUN UKR RSA
W K2 500 GER HUN POL

Back!
09-08-2012, 10:04:23
see now this section of the MT

7 FRA 8 9 11 28
8 ITA 7 6 4 17
9 HUN 7 4 3 14
10 AUS 6 12 9 27

one more gold (which they could get in a couple of hours from Men 470), and Aussies will jump in 8th place ahead of Italy, and biting frog's heels

Back!
09-08-2012, 13:50:06
women open water swimming 10Km Marathon

HUN USA ITA

Hungary is on fire, with this one they overtake Italy
(revenge for having been eliminated in men waterpolo? ;))

in 2008 they got 3-5-2
now they're at 8-4-3 and it's not over yet

Fistandantilus
09-08-2012, 23:57:23
this begs for a study about the home effect at the Olympics!

:)

IIRC Spain won a lot of medals (more than they usualy do) in Barcelona too.

Back!
10-08-2012, 09:43:47
athletics update


MEN 2012 WOMEN MEN 2008 WOMEN
G S B G S B G S B G S B
100 JAM JAM USA JAM USA JAM JAM TRI USA JAM JAMx2
110H USA USA JAM AUS USA USA CUB USA USA USA AUS CAN
4x100 JAM TRI JPN RUS BEL NGR
200 JAM JAM JAM USA JAM USA JAM USA USA JAM USA JAM
400 GRN DOM TRI USA GBR USA USA USA USA GBR JAM USA
400H DOM USA PUR RUS USA CZE USA USA USA JAM USA GBR
4x400 USA BAH RUS USA RUS JAM
800 KEN BOT KEN KEN SUD KEN KEN KEN MAR
1500 ALG USA MAR KEN NZL FRA KEN UKR UKR
3000S KEN FRA KEN RUS TUN ETH KEN FRA KEN RUS KEN RUS
5000 ETH KEN KEN ETH TUR ETH
10k GBR USA ETH ETH KEN KEN ETH ETH KEN ETH TUR USA
20k W CHN GUA CHN RUS ECU AUS RUS NOR ITA
50k W - - - ITA AUS RUS - - -
Marat ETH KEN RUS KEN MAR ETH ROM KEN CHN
Long GBR AUS USA USA RUS USA PAN RSA CUB BRA RUS NGR
Tripl USA USA ITA KAZ COL UKR POR GBR BAH CMR RUS GRE
High RUS USA GBR+ RUS GBR RUS BEL CRO RUS
Pole USA CUB RUS AUS RUS UKR RUS USA RUS
Shot POL GER USA BLR NZL RUS POL USA BLR NZL BLR BLR
Discs GER IRN EST CRO RUS CHN EST POL LTU USA CUB UKR
Hammr HUN SLO JPN SLO BLR BLR BLR CUB CHN
Javel CZE GER GER NOR LAT FIN CZE RUS GER
Combn USA USA CUB GBR GER RUS USA BLR CUB UKR USA RUS

Back!
10-08-2012, 12:25:41
Australia defended their Gold in Men 470 and they're now 9th in Medal Table ahead of Italy