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Back!
16-11-2011, 13:23:46
http://www.counterglow.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1031654#post1031654

new tournament, new thread

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_UEFA_European_Under-21_Football_Championship_qualification

for now, let's just point out that young Welsh failed to win in Armenia, remaining 4th behind them

:p

Back!
07-09-2012, 09:58:06
here's the usual audienceless post, with the what-if scenarios for the qualification to the final tournament

tonite and monday the last 2 matches of the qualification pahse will be played
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_UEFA_European_Under-21_Football_Championship_qualification

There are a total of ten groups. Two of these groups have six teams; the remaining eight groups consist of five teams.
At the conclusion of qualifying, the team at the top of each group and four best second-placed teams will qualify for the two-legged play-offs, with the winner of each play-off tie qualifying for the finals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_UEFA_European_Under-21_Football_Championship_qualification#Ranking_of_ second-placed_teams

to put some interest in those who'd like to follow this afternoon matches
(as an appetizer for tonite's beginning of WC 2014 qualifications)

Gr.1
Greece can only take 2nd place from Bosnia by winning there tonite, AND then beating Cyprus on monday.
Even doing so, taking away the 4pts they got vs 6th ranked S.Marino, they'd be at 12 in the runner-up table, not enough to qualify in the best 4.
Bosnia will host Germany, after Greece. With a win and a draw, they'be at 14 with a low GD in the RU table, they'd reasonably need to win both to qualify.

Gr.2
Sweden v Ukraine to be played on monday
If SWE win, they'll win the group with Slovenia RU
If UKR win, they'll tie Slovenia for 1st, and win the group on general GD (two home 2-0 in the h2h)
Slovenia, who have already played all their matches, would have as RU 14pts and +3 GD, not enough to qualify
They can only qualify by winning the group, and for that they need Sweden to draw and tie them on top of the group (SLO ahead on h2h)
In that case, SWE as RU would have 14pts and +2 GD, worse even than Slovenia.
THUS, the runner-up from this group will NOT qualify for the final tournament.

Gr.3
Montenegro will host Czechs and then Armenia. They need to win both to overtake Armenia as RU. In such case they'd have 15pts with a +8 GD or better.
After going to MNE, CZE will host Wales. They just need 1pt overall to secure 1st place (ahead ARM in h2h). They can only get 2nd if they lose both, and ARM win in MNE. Even so, they'd have 16pt, +14 GD
If MNE don't beat CZE, ARM will be RU in any case, even they'd then lose in MNE. But with 14pt +5gd they won't qualify. So they'd need at least a draw to get at 15pt +6gd.

Gr.4
tonite DEN-SRB Nir-MKD
monday DEN-Nir SRB-MKD
We can take for granted the 3pts vs Northern Ireland
In the worst case, the RU from this group will have 15pts

Gr.5
With 1 game to play Switzerland is mathematically RU, and they'll host bottom ranked Estonia. Who tho earned their only point with a goalles home draw vs SWI indeed.
I doubt Swiss will concede at home: we can count for them at least 15pt +8gd, more likely 17pt as RU with a win.

Gr.6
if Russia lose v Moldova and get RU, they'd probably qualify with 16pt anyway, even if they wouldn't deserve it...
Almost surely Portugal will be the RU, and they play monday in Poland. Btw Poles did better away than home...
if POR lose, with 14 +8 their qualification would be at risk. So they'd better bring home at least a point.

Gr.7
RU already finalised: Turkey with 15pt +6gd

Gr.8
Norway is currently the best RU. Should they lose last match monday in England, they'd need Switzerland and Portugal AND Armenia to all win, to NOT qualify...
Should instead England lose @home, they'd be anyway the best RU, and qualified

Gr.9
granting Romania a monday win in Latvia might still not be enough at 14pt, even if they hugely increase their gd
Slovakia could do better with 2 home games if they win both and get at 15.
But to do so, before Kazaks on last match, they'd need to beat France tonite. And les poulets (or little cocks?) have won so far all their 7 matches, home and away, with 2-0 or 3-0

Gr.10
Austria will be the judge of this group as they will first play in Netherlands and then host Scots.
If against the odds they'd win away and lose at home, Scotland would be 1st on h2h vs NED, and the Dutch would be RU with 16pt and a huge gd, thus practically qualified.
Regardless tonite result in Holland, Scotland would hardly qualify witha draw in Austria, as we saw above how several RU teams are rather likely to get 15pts.
So they'd really need to win there, and be rather safe with 16pts

RU SUMMARY

Gr.1 Bosnia 14+low (16 very unlikely)
Gr.2 Swe or Slo 14 +3
Gr.3 Arm likely, 14 +5 or 15 +6
Gr.4 Den/Srb/Mkd 15pt at least
Gr.5 SWI 15 +8 very likely, probably 17 (14pt a big surprise)
Gr.6 POR 15 +9 likely, eventually 17pt, they risk if 14 +8
Gr.7 TUR 15 +6
Gr.8 NOR 16 pt at least
Gr.9 ROM 14pt, unlikely SVK 15 +5
Gr.10 SCO 14, or 16

I figure Norway, Switzerland and Portugal shold be the 3 RU to go thru
As for the 4th one, Turkey will have hard time to retain the spot, more likely the RU form Gr.4, or Scotland, might take it (in their dreams Armenia or Bosnia)

Back!
10-09-2012, 08:55:19
update, after friday's matches

Gr.1 Bosnia secured RU spot by rolling over Greece 4-0
Gr.3 Montenegro were held on a goalless draw by Czechs, this granted Armenia RU spot

Gr.4 while Macedonia took the granted 3 points in Belfast, young Danes were held to a home draw by Serbia, who retained the group lead. Scoring away (1-1) Serbia also secured the h2h advantage in case of a tie (it was 0-0 in Serbia).
Danes will 99% go to 16 pts hosting N.Ireland.
If Serbia don't lose they'll win the group (as said above), and Denmark would be RU with 16 +9.
Macedonia can only hope to get RU (behind Danes) if they win in Serbia, but they'd only get at 15pt +4 (or better) gd

Gr.9 Slovakia did indeed manage to unexpectedly beat France (who maybe were a bit relaxed having already won the group?).
Now the RU spot is in their hand if they'll be able to beat Kazaks this afternoon. As said tho in the previous post, a 15 +5 should not be enough (it'd require Por AND Swi to lose)

Gr.10 Austrians didn't manage to upset the odds and got overrun in Netherland, leaving Scotland as RU. It's Scots turn now to win in Austria tho, as a draw won't be enough for them to qualify, they need to get at 16pts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_UEFA_European_Under-21_Football_Championship_qualification


Gr.8 NOR 16 +7 @ Eng
Gr.7 TUR 15 +6 final
Gr.6 POR 14 +9 @ Pol
Gr.5 SWI 14 +8 v Est

Gr.3 ARM 14 +6 @ Mne
Gr.4 DEN 13 +8 v Nir (MKD RU at 15 +4 if they win in Srb)
Gr.1 BIH 13 +8 v Ger
Gr10 SCO 13 +8 @ Aut
Gr.2 Swe 13 +2 v Ukr
Gr.9 SVK 12 +4 v Kaz


All the opponents are either already group winner (Eng, Ger) or eliminated.
Except in Gr.2, where I already said the RU won't qualify. Thus, the Swe-Ukr match winner will qualify as group winner, if they draw Slovenia will go thru.

Should Norway avoid the defeat in England, they'd be thru. If they lose, they'd be out only if 4 in these 6 win: Por, Swi, Arm, Den, Bih, Sco

Switzerland and Denmark should get rather straightforward wins (and a Serbian home defeat would be a surprise).
Armenia win in Mne won't be that easy (and even a draw should be a 3-3 to overtake Turkey).
Portugal with any draw in Poland would be ahead Turkey, but they'd go out if any of Armenia, Bosnia or Scotland win. They might also win away, eliminated Poles will only fight for their pride...

Note that a Norway draw, together with Swiss, Portuguese AND Armenian wins will make a Dane win moot leaving them out as 5th RU

Scots need to win in Austria, and Bosnia to beat Germans. Should they succeed in their tough endeavors, they'd still also need one or two of the teams above them to fail.

Slovakia faint hopes are tied to a string of miracle coincidences (the same for Macedonia).

as the uefa.com article states,

http://www.uefa.com/under21/news/newsid=1857213.html


Seven play-off places will be up for grabs when the qualifying group stage for the 2013 UEFA European Under-21 Championship draws to a fascinating close on Monday


:cute:

Back!
10-09-2012, 10:17:36
http://www.counterglow.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1021591&postcount=15

from the above "U-21 History" post, here's the updated table


TEAM Q S F W 13 11 09 07 06 04 02 00 98 96 94 92 90 88 86 84 82 80 78

Italy 16 10 6 5 p - S Q Q W S W - W W W S Q F S Q Q Q
Spain 11 7 5 3 p W Q - - - - S W F S - Q Q W F Q - -
England 11 8 3 2 p Q F S - - Q Q - - - - - S S W W S S
Netherl 6 4 2 2 p - - W W - - Q S - - Q - S - - - - -
Russia 5 3 2 2 * - - - - - - - Q - Q - W - - - S W -
Serbia 8 7 4 1 * - Q F S F - - - - - - F - - S - S W
France 8 5 2 1 p - - - S - F - - S S - - W Q Q Q - -
Czech R 11 3 2 1 p S - Q - - W F - Q Q Q Q Q - - - Q Q
Germany 8 2 2 1 p - W - Q q - - Q Q - Q Q - - - F - -

Greece 4 2 2 - - - - - - - Q - F - Q - - F - - - - -
DDR 2 2 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - F F
Sweden 6 4 1 - * - S - - S - - Q - - F S - Q - - - -
Portugal 6 2 1 - * - - Q q S Q - - Q F - - - - - - - -
Switzer 3 2 1 - * F - - - Q S - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ukraine 2 1 1 - * Q - - F - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Scotland 6 3 - - * - - - - - - - - S - S - Q - Q S Q -
Denmark 5 1 - - * q - - Q - - - - - - S - - Q - - - Q
Hungary 4 1 - - - - - - - - - - - Q - - - - S - - Q Q
Belarus 3 1 - - - S Q - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Belgium 2 1 - - - - - S - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bulgaria 2 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Q - - - - - S
Slovakia 1 1 - - * - - - - - - S - - - - - - - - - - -
Norway 1 1 - - * - - - - - - - S - - - - - - - - - -

Poland 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - Q Q - - Q Q Q - -
Israel 2 - - - q - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Croatia 2 - - - - - - - - Q - Q - - - - - - - - - - -
Iceland 1 - - - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Finland 1 - - - - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Turkey 1 - - - * - - - - - - Q - - - - - - - - - - -
Romania 1 - - - - - - - - - - - q - - - - - - - - - -
Albania 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Q - - -


Bosnia - - - - * - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Slovenia - - - - * - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Armenia - - - - * - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Macedon - - - - * - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


you see that the "regulars" are those who already secured a playoff spot (p)
I also added for now those who could still make them

Back!
11-09-2012, 08:49:50
here's yesterday results


Gr.8 NOR 16 +7 @ Eng 0-1 16 +6
Gr.7 TUR 15 +6 final
Gr.6 POR 14 +9 @ Pol 0-0 15 +9
Gr.5 SWI 14 +8 v Est 3-0 17 +11

Gr.3 ARM 14 +6 @ Mne 0-0 15 +6
Gr.4 DEN 13 +8 v Nir 3-0 16 +11 (Srb thrashed Mkd 5-1 and kept the lead)
Gr.1 BIH 13 +8 v Ger 4-4 14 +8
Gr10 SCO 13 +8 @ Aut 2-3 13 +7
Gr.2 Swe 13 +2 v Ukr 2-1, Slo RU 14 +3
Gr.9 SVK 12 +4 v Kaz 6-0 15 +10


and the final RU table

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_UEFA_European_Under-21_Football_Championship_qualification#Ranking_of_ second-placed_teams


Gr.5 SWI 17 +11
Gr.4 DEN 16 +11
Gr.8 NOR 16 +6
Gr.9 SVK 15 +10

Gr.6 POR 15 +9
Gr.7 TUR 15 +6
Gr.3 ARM 15 +6
Gr.1 BIH 14 +8
Gr.2 SVN 14 +3
Gr10 SCO 13 +7


Slovakia did the great operation there.
Eventful match in Bosnia.
Portugal were stuck all match on the 0-0 and didn't move from 15 +9
Denmark and Switzerland took the lead early on enough and their matches were never in question.
Too bad the matches didn't start at the same time, there'd be a thrilling final...



BIH-GER AUT-SCO SVK-KAZ
11' 1-0 8' 1-0 13' 1-0
21' 1-1
23' 2-1 35' 2-0
65' 3-3 68' 4-0
74' 4-3 75' 1-2
76' 2-2
87' 4-4 88' 5-0
91' 3-2 90' 6-0


with their 2nd goal, Svk knew they were ahead Turkey (on goals scored)
but when they were ahead Germany, Bosnia had 16pt and were still qualified
Bosnia qualification slipped from their hands 3 minutes from time
Actually:
Their match stared 1 hour earlier, so SVK knew when they began 2nd half that Bosnia had drawn and were out of contention.
At 60' of SVK match they were still 3-0 that is 15 +7, and they got to know that Portugal match ended 0-0, so Svk could grab qualification with a 5-0, which they reached at 88'
When Scotland overturned their match to get the lead at 75', all the other matches had already ended. Scots knew they were qualified with 16pts overtaking Slovakia, alas they could only keep it for one minute... (and lost in the end, finishing last of RUs)
___

So, Bosnia, Portugal and Scotland could savour qualification at different times, but in the end it's Slovakia who grabs it.
Some Portuguese might nurture the doubt whether Kazaks did all they could to fend off Slovakia assaults... whereas Slovakia surely will have to thank Austrian pride

http://www.uefa.com/under21/news/newsid=1857496.html

according to the http://www.football-rankings.info site, friday's playoff draw will be seeded
RUs should be in 2nd pot even if they have a better ranking than some group winners
with last match home defeat vs Eire, Italy should for instance have dropped in 8th place behind Switzerland, who tho got in as RU

http://www.football-rankings.info/search/label/UEFA%20Under-21%20Coefficient
it's still updated at June 15, we expect a soon due final update

Back!
11-09-2012, 09:00:10
updated with Play-off lineup
all 9 teams who had won at least 1 title are still in so far


TEAM Q S F W 13 11 09 07 06 04 02 00 98 96 94 92 90 88 86 84 82 80 78

Italy 16 10 6 5 P - S Q Q W S W - W W W S Q F S Q Q Q
Spain 11 7 5 3 P W Q - - - - S W F S - Q Q W F Q - -
England 11 8 3 2 P Q F S - - Q Q - - - - - S S W W S S
Netherl 6 4 2 2 P - - W W - - Q S - - Q - S - - - - -
Russia 5 3 2 2 P - - - - - - - Q - Q - W - - - S W -
Serbia 8 7 4 1 P - Q F S F - - - - - - F - - S - S W
France 8 5 2 1 P - - - S - F - - S S - - W Q Q Q - -
Czech R 11 3 2 1 P S - Q - - W F - Q Q Q Q Q - - - Q Q
Germany 8 2 2 1 P - W - Q q - - Q Q - Q Q - - - F - -

Greece 4 2 2 - - - - - - - Q - F - Q - - F - - - - -
DDR 2 2 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - F F
Sweden 6 4 1 - P - S - - S - - Q - - F S - Q - - - -
Portugal 6 2 1 - - - - Q q S Q - - Q F - - - - - - - -
Switzer 3 2 1 - p F - - - Q S - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ukraine 2 1 1 - - Q - - F - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Scotland 6 3 - - - - - - - - - - - S - S - Q - Q S Q -
Denmark 5 1 - - p q - - Q - - - - - - S - - Q - - - Q
Hungary 4 1 - - - - - - - - - - - Q - - - - S - - Q Q
Belarus 3 1 - - - S Q - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Belgium 2 1 - - - - - S - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bulgaria 2 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Q - - - - - S
Slovakia 1 1 - - p - - - - - - S - - - - - - - - - - -
Norway 1 1 - - p - - - - - - - S - - - - - - - - - -

Poland 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - Q Q - - Q Q Q - -
Israel 2 - - - q - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Croatia 2 - - - - - - - - Q - Q - - - - - - - - - - -
Iceland 1 - - - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Finland 1 - - - - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Turkey 1 - - - - - - - - - - Q - - - - - - - - - - -
Romania 1 - - - - - - - - - - - q - - - - - - - - - -
Albania 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Q - - -

Back!
12-09-2012, 16:55:03
according to the http://www.football-rankings.info site, friday's playoff draw will be seeded
RUs should be in 2nd pot even if they have a better ranking than some group winners
with last match home defeat vs Eire, Italy should for instance have dropped in 8th place behind Switzerland, who tho got in as RU

http://www.football-rankings.info/search/label/UEFA%20Under-21%20Coefficient
it's still updated at June 15, we expect a soon due final update

here confirmed

http://www.uefa.com/under21/news/newsid=1857658.html

by ranking Switzerland would have been in Pot 1 ahead Italy and France, but stepped down to Pot 2 as runner-up
Even so, France retained last spot in Pot 1 by mere 35 coeff pts over Sweden

Back!
14-09-2012, 16:11:05
http://www.uefa.com/under21/news/newsid=1858735.html

Spain v Denmark
Italy v Sweden
Czech Republic v Russia
Slovakia v Netherlands
Germany v Switzerland
England v Serbia
France v Norway

Back!
17-10-2012, 09:24:05
There have been no posts in the last 30 days in this forum.
Try using the controls below to search for any older posts that may exist

...sigh
:(

Funko
17-10-2012, 09:34:58
Serbian racists and Poles who can't close a roof.

Back!
17-10-2012, 09:37:57
TEAM Q S F W 13 11 09 07 06 04 02 00 98 96 94 92 90 88 86 84 82 80 78

Italy 17 10 6 5 Q - S Q Q W S W - W W W S Q F S Q Q Q
Spain 12 7 5 3 Q W Q - - - - S W F S - Q Q W F Q - -
England 12 8 3 2 Q Q F S - - Q Q - - - - - S S W W S S
Netherl 7 4 2 2 Q - - W W - - Q S - - Q - S - - - - -
Russia 6 3 2 2 Q - - - - - - - Q - Q - W - - - S W -
Serbia 8 7 4 1 - - Q F S F - - - - - - F - - S - S W
France 8 5 2 1 - - - - S - F - - S S - - W Q Q Q - -
Czech R 11 3 2 1 - S - Q - - W F - Q Q Q Q Q - - - Q Q
Germany 9 2 2 1 Q - W - Q q - - Q Q - Q Q - - - F - -

Greece 4 2 2 - - - - - - - Q - F - Q - - F - - - - -
DDR 2 2 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - F F
Sweden 6 4 1 - - - S - - S - - Q - - F S - Q - - - -
Portugal 6 2 1 - - - - Q q S Q - - Q F - - - - - - - -
Switzer 3 2 1 - - F - - - Q S - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ukraine 2 1 1 - - Q - - F - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Scotland 6 3 - - - - - - - - - - - S - S - Q - Q S Q -
Denmark 5 1 - - - q - - Q - - - - - - S - - Q - - - Q
Hungary 4 1 - - - - - - - - - - - Q - - - - S - - Q Q
Belarus 3 1 - - - S Q - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Norway 2 1 - - Q - - - - - - - S - - - - - - - - - -
Belgium 2 1 - - - - - S - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bulgaria 2 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Q - - - - - S
Slovakia 1 1 - - - - - - - - - S - - - - - - - - - - -

Poland 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - Q Q - - Q Q Q - -
Israel 2 - - - q - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Croatia 2 - - - - - - - - Q - Q - - - - - - - - - - -
Iceland 1 - - - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Finland 1 - - - - - Q - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Turkey 1 - - - - - - - - - - Q - - - - - - - - - - -
Romania 1 - - - - - - - - - - - q - - - - - - - - - -
Albania 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Q - - -


of the former U-21 winning countries:
- Serbia got out vs England
- Czechs got out vs Russia
- France got out vs Norway, and that's the surprise

otoh young French missed the final tournament for the 4th consecutive time, they last qualified in 2006
Norway only qualified once in '98, when they reached the Semifinal
Russia too, who had won it twice in '80 & '90, qualified for the first time since '98

the longest open qualifying streak is England's with 4 consecutive appearances now since 2007
Spain have 3
Italy had a streak of 6, which tho ended last time in 2011 when they got out in the playoff with a 0-3 in Belarus (then semifinalist) after a 2-0 home leg win (and they still hold the record streak of 10 from '78 to '96, only missing the '98 one before 2011)

Except holders Spain, the other 3 semifinalists from last edition didn't even qualify
the anomaly was tho rather in 2011, this time almost all qualifiers are mainstream countries, except hosts and Norway

http://www.uefa.com/under21/news/newsid=1877343.html

UEFA will release a full list of seedings on Wednesday. [today?]
The finals are played from 5 to 18 June

Back!
17-10-2012, 10:16:11
while we wait for the UEFA official updates...

http://www.football-rankings.info/2012/09/2013-uefa-under-21-final-draw-seeding.html


According to the regulations, the two top-seeds will be the host association - Israel (position A1) and the highest ranked team (B1).
The teams ranked second and third are seeded and will be drawn into positions A2 and B2.
The remaining four teams are not seeded and will be drawn into positions A3, B3, A4 and B4.



Spain 39345 41346
Czech Republic 35363 37364
England 34675 36676
Netherlands 33690 35690
Switzerland 33559 35560
Germany 33163 34830
Italy 32793 34794
Sweden 32055 33722
France 31612 33613
Russia 31292 33293
Serbia 29884 31885
Denmark 29466 31467
Slovakia 27532 29532
Norway 24214 26215


there should be no doubt that Spain will be top seed for group B
England and Netherlands will be seeded and won't meet in the groups
Germany Italy Russia and Norway could be drawn anywhere

This might allow for Group A with both Israel AND Norway
which would be the usual farce imho....

Mr. Bas
30-10-2012, 10:28:08
We have Virgil van Dijk, so you might just as well give up already. :beer:

Back!
05-06-2013, 08:35:15
http://www.uefa.com/under21/news/newsid=1959611.html#israels+special+day+u21s+start s

http://www.uefa.com/under21/season=2013/matches/index.html

England v Italy in the evening

anyone interested?

and Netherlands v Germany tomorrow nite

Funko
05-06-2013, 12:58:53
Yeah! Are Italy U21 any good?

Despite Pearce's exellent record they are apparently considering replacing him. A disagreement about whether he should be able to field his strongest sides in tournaments like this or whether some players should play in meaningless friendlies with the senior team.

Though I'm sure Ox was happy with his opportunity to play and score in Brazil!

Mr. Bas
07-06-2013, 12:44:01
We really seem to have switched places with the Germans these days. I missed the game unfortunately, but apparently, Germany was the more technically gifted, more refined and better passing side, but we won by playing a more physical game with bigger guys. And we scored the winner in the last minute of the game, header from one of the big lads (Fer) after a hoof into the penalty area.

Back!
07-06-2013, 14:28:29
I only watched a few bits here and there
based on what I gathered from the comments about the parts I missed,
oranges almost dominated 1st half, then the momentum swung completely, and after the equaliser I though poms were to take the whole prize

On Fer's header (from a set piece iirc), there were 6 or 8 germans zone-defending the box in front of the goal, completely immobile like chess pieces!!!
And Fer had just come in
:beer: