PDA

View Full Version : Rugby World Cup 2011


maroule
08-09-2011, 13:39:38
whoat? no threads on that? it starts tomorrow for god's sake...

predictions? on paper it's kind of easier to predict than the futchball one, I can only see one final and two scenarios; NZ doesn't choke against Australia, or it does and Australia takes it... I can't see any other team mounting a challenge to these two. France to fail in the quarters against England.

MOBIUS
08-09-2011, 22:03:39
Wales won't even get to the quarters. There, I said it.

I will be in Romania for most of this... :(

Greg W
09-09-2011, 07:26:13
I agree about the Kiwis chocking or not. Though whether it's in a final or a semi, who knows? I have no idea how good England will be, and South Africa fielded a very weak side in the Tri Nations (which we won), so I wouldn't read too much into their form.

The Kiwis should be red hot favourites though.

Back!
09-09-2011, 08:40:22
http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html

the 20 WC teams are also the top 20 in the ranking
coincidence?


A 1 90,55 NEW ZEALAND
C 2 88,84 AUSTRALIA
D 3 85,69 SOUTH AFRICA
A 4 83,78 FRANCE

B 5 82,89 ENGLAND
D 6 80,79 WALES
B 7 78,83 SCOTLAND
C 8 78,50 IRELAND

B 9 78,40 ARGENTINA
D 10 74,54 SAMOA
C 11 73,88 ITALY
A 12 72,48 TONGA

A 13 71,95 JAPAN
A 14 71,56 CANADA
D 15 70,83 FIJI
B 16 70,30 GEORGIA
B 17 65,69 ROMANIA
C 18 65,00 USA
C 19 61,92 RUSSIA
D 20 61,42 NAMIBIA
_______________________________

A 8,8 78,06 average
B 10,8 75,22 average
C 11,6 73,63 average
D 10,8 74,65 average


http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Rugby_World_Cup
"the rankings are now very well established and provide us with a credible and succinct way of seeding teams for the rugby World Cup pool draw", according to Rugby World Cup Ltd (RWCL) chairman Syd Millar

odd pool distribution came out from the draw, tho

pool B teams are all lower-ranked than the respective team in pool A (with the exception of B-3rd Argentina above A-3rd Tonga)

same with teams in pool C lower than pool B ones (with the exception of Australia-England)
this is reflected in the pools average ranking positions and points

By pools:


A 1 90,55 NEW ZEALAND
A 4 83,78 FRANCE
A 12 72,48 TONGA
A 13 71,95 JAPAN
A 14 71,56 CANADA

B 5 82,89 ENGLAND
B 7 78,83 SCOTLAND
B 9 78,40 ARGENTINA
B 16 70,30 GEORGIA
B 17 65,69 ROMANIA

C 2 88,84 AUSTRALIA
C 8 78,50 IRELAND
C 11 73,88 ITALY
C 18 65,00 USA
C 19 61,92 RUSSIA

D 3 85,69 SOUTH AFRICA
D 6 80,79 WALES
D 10 74,54 SAMOA
D 15 70,83 FIJI
D 20 61,42 NAMIBIA



curious USA-Russia match in Pool C,
not exactly two Rugby SuperPowers, it hasn't the same resonance now as USA-USSR in the '80s would have

Back!
09-09-2011, 08:49:18
should everything go according to the ranking, this would be the QF table

AUSTRALIA - WALES
ENGLAND - FRANCE
---
S.AFRICA - IRELAND
NEW ZEALAND - SCOTLAND

Though whether it's in a final or a semi, who knows?
to meet in a semi, either AUS or NZL should not win their pool

possible overturns: I frankly don't see any chance about pool winners, except maybe Kiwis choking vs LeCoqs
about runnerups:
Tonga over France? you wish ;)
Argentina over Sotland? that's the closest
Italy over Ireland? in their dreams, albeit not completely impossible
Samoa over Wales? are you serious?

maroule
09-09-2011, 13:11:32
"Tonga over France? you wish "

considering how poor Tonga was this morning (esp dropped balls and uncoordinated play), Lièvremont should be sleeping soundly

Fistandantilus
09-09-2011, 15:23:59
That ranking system seems sound. Why doesn't FIFA use something like taht?

Greg W
10-09-2011, 02:53:31
Wow, Romania certainly gave it to Scotland for a lot of that match! The score does not reflect the match, that's for sure.

Looking forward to England v Argentina tonight. :beer:

Oh and I was referring to whether the Kiwis choke in a final or a quarter or a semi, not about whether it's against Australia in a final or semi. :)

maroule
12-09-2011, 07:53:24
"Tonga over France? you wish "

considering how poor Tonga was this morning (esp dropped balls and uncoordinated play), Lièvremont should be sleeping soundly

and considering how poor France was, Tonga can go narcoleptic without any fear

Back!
12-09-2011, 08:20:23
Wales won't even get to the quarters. There, I said it.

possible overturns: I frankly don't see any chance about pool winners, except maybe Kiwis choking vs LeCoqs

Wow, couldn't see any of the matches, by SAF-WAL 17-16 must have been thrilling

Wow, Romania certainly gave it to Scotland for a lot of that match! The score does not reflect the match, that's for sure.

Looking forward to England v Argentina tonight. :beer:


must B a tough pool, England only won 13-9
the score says Argies ahead 9-3 at the beginning of 2nd half, and England 10-9 with Young's try at 67'
how actullay was the match?

maroule
12-09-2011, 10:06:50
wales-boks was a great match, with Wales a goal kick away from victory

the little I saw of England was quite boring... but then again Argentina make you look like a boring team, very difficult to play against (they choke you, slow the match, and are fiercely aggressive)

Beta1
12-09-2011, 16:33:44
England - Argentina was dire all round. Very impressed by argentinians ability not to score with a 4 man overlap - even their backs play like their forwards....

England were1 dimensional - how long are we sticking with Johnson? For someone who was known as an enforcer as a player a lot of his team think its OK to sit back and watch the match - especially in the backs. Couple of good line breaks with no-one anywhere near to support and a lot of players "jogging" slowly forward...

Greg W
13-09-2011, 13:21:01
Yeah, Wales v Boks was a great match. I so wanted Wales to win, they played the best Rugby in that match. And by best, I mean most entertaining.

Australia v Italy was a dreadful first half. Took us 45 mins to wake up, then we put 4 tries on them in 12 mins, then we went back to sleep a little.

Eng v Argies was exceedingly dull as previously mentioned. My only excitement was when I thought the Argies were going to win.

Fistandantilus
13-09-2011, 15:00:34
Australia v Italy was a dreadful first half. Took us 45 mins to wake up, then we put 4 tries on them in 12 mins, then we went back to sleep a little.


What a disrespectful cat and mouse play. :mad:

Back!
14-09-2011, 11:41:14
"Tonga over France? you wish "

considering how poor Tonga was this morning (esp dropped balls and uncoordinated play), Lièvremont should be sleeping soundly

and considering how poor France was, Tonga can go narcoleptic without any fear

You read it here first

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/matches/match=10929/report.html#tenacious+canada+defeat+tonga

maybe because Canada fielded no french-speaking player
:p

maroule
15-09-2011, 11:56:39
there is at least one, their star second row is playing in France (he is one of the most booked player in the country, he fights all the time, very popular with the fans)

Greg W
17-09-2011, 13:48:21
I haven't even seen the game as I was out on a date, but... Oh my god. :o :o :o :o :o

Funko
19-09-2011, 08:34:28
IIIIIIIIIIRELAND
IIIIIIIIIIRELAND
IIIIIIIIIIRELAND

etc.

Back!
19-09-2011, 12:36:48
Greg, now you know it, everytime you'll go out on a date, Wallabies will lose

Your choice

Mr. Bas
19-09-2011, 22:34:50
Did we win?

Greg W
19-09-2011, 22:36:08
Greg, now you know it, everytime you'll go out on a date, Wallabies will lose

Your choicePoor Wallabies! :beer:

Fistandantilus
19-09-2011, 23:21:33
So Aussies are out?

MOBIUS
20-09-2011, 10:07:48
Greg, now you know it, everytime you'll go out on a date, Wallabies will lose

Your choice

Haha, that's what I thought too! Good job I read your post in time, not like that silly funko... :p

Back!
20-09-2011, 14:05:26
So Aussies are out?

taking it seriously (I know it was a joke)

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/tournamentrules/index.html
If at the completion of the pool phase two or more teams are level on match points, then the following criteria shall be used in the following order until one of the Teams can be determined as the higher ranked:


The winner of the match in which the two tied teams have played each other shall be the higher ranked;
The team which has the best difference between points scored for and points scored against in all its pool matches shall be the higher ranked;
The team which has the best difference between tries scored for and tries scored against in all its pool matches shall be the higher ranked;
The team which has scored most points in all its pool matches shall be the higher ranked;
The team which has scored most tries in all its pool matches shall be the higher ranked;
Should the tie be unresolved at the conclusion of steps 1 through 5, the team that is higher ranked in the updated Official IRB World Rankings on October 3, 2011.



first of all, the intro paragraph says "two or more", then point 1 seems to apply to the case of two tied teams only
...???
let's take it in a wider sense, so it becomes

1. TIED PTS (not PF)
2. POOL Scored-DIFF
3. POOL Try-DIFF
4. POOL SCORED
5. POOL TRIES
6. IRB Ranking AFTER Pool matches

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/standings/pool=C/index.html

Considering that Aussie, Ireland and Italy all win their remaining matches vs USA and Russia, it will all come down to last Pool match Ireland-Italy on Sunday Oct 2

Unless Italy overturn the odds, Aussies will be runner-up
Should Italy incredibly win, they'll close the circle and the 3 pool-top team will all have one win and one loss between themselves
But before we can apply Point 1, they should be tied on Pool Points
In case all get their bonus point in beating the 2 weak teams, they'd get thus before last match
AUS 15
IRL 13
ITA 10

so for Aussies to be out, they should fail to get the 4-tries bonus point BOTH vs USA and vs Russia (or fail to beat one of course)

Greg, I'm sure you planned your next dates for this Friday, and then for Sat 1st, didn't you?

The Shaker
20-09-2011, 14:56:37
did you mean 'no they are not out'?

Funko
20-09-2011, 15:00:38
:lol:

Back!
20-09-2011, 15:11:05
indeed, I let myself get carried away

:cute:

what I actually meant:

it's very hard, several unlikely cisrcumstances must converge
but with a little help from Greg, we might still make it happen!

Greg W
21-09-2011, 12:34:33
taking it seriously (I know it was a joke)

Greg, I'm sure you planned your next dates for this Friday, and then for Sat 1st, didn't you?Actually, my next date is indeed this friday! :gasmaske_eek:

Fistandantilus
21-09-2011, 13:23:56
taking it seriously (I know it was a joke)


Actually, it wasn't. I'm not really following it closely (despite french coworker seems to think it's the most important thing in the world right now) and thought it was in the knockout stages already :p

Back!
21-09-2011, 15:19:01
Best Unintentional Joke Evah!

:beer:

Funko
26-09-2011, 11:15:54
Poor Scotland.

Funko
26-09-2011, 11:25:51
It'd take the return of MoSe to point out all the permutations of winners in England's group.

An England win would make it all academic. But theoretically it could be Scotland as group winners.

maroule
26-09-2011, 13:10:32
I'd love to see that happen but I can't see Scotland winning
MoSe, what would it take for argentina to be number 1 of the group?
Argentina would be an ever worse adversary than England for France

Funko
26-09-2011, 13:27:58
Argentina bonus point win and Scotland win without bonus point, they top group.

maroule
26-09-2011, 17:12:07
not likely, but an Irish win against Australia was even more far fetched

Back!
27-09-2011, 07:59:01
France could still go out vs Tonga

Back!
27-09-2011, 08:10:03
Springboks too, they could still go out vs Samoa and behind Wales

If Aussie get the bonus vs Russia (how couldn't they?), Italy "just" needs to beat Ireland
(provided they win with bonus in the running match vs USA)
Should instead Aussie win without bonus, the 3 sides could still get all tied at 14 pts; in which case it's not clear how the 1st tie-breaker rule exactly works, but Italy would need the bonus too, vs Ireland

Funko
27-09-2011, 08:12:31
It is clear, 1st tie breaker rule is ignored if 3 teams are on equal points. It goes straight to points difference.

Back!
27-09-2011, 08:15:55
as for the England group, you asked for Mose and you'll have to wait for him
or work it out with wiki

Back!
27-09-2011, 08:20:45
Is it?
it would have been clear had they said
"in case of only two tied teams, the winner of the match they played each other shall be the higer ranked
in case of more tied teams, skip to rule #2"

they way they've written it it's NOT clear to me, it's implicit, at best

maroule
27-09-2011, 08:23:24
I already got my answer :p

I can't see an upset on France, Australia or South Africa, but Italy can certainly beat Ireland (at least more plausibly than Scotland beating England)

Funko
27-09-2011, 08:24:06
Italy got the bonus point.

Funko
27-09-2011, 08:25:49
Is it?
it would have been clear had they said
"in case of only two tied teams, the winner of the match they played each other shall be the higer ranked
in case of more tied teams, skip to rule #2"

they way they've written it it's NOT clear to me, it's implicit, at best


I was going with the wording from here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Rugby_World_Cup#Pool_stage

The winner of the match between the two teams (does not apply if more than two teams are tied);

Not sure that could be misunderstood.

Back!
27-09-2011, 08:50:01
yes, wiki is much better than the original world cup site, where I took the rules I pasted

:beer:

MOBIUS
08-10-2011, 21:34:08
WOO! :beer:

That is all... ;)

Greg W
09-10-2011, 03:46:12
That about Wales or France? Or both? ;)

MOBIUS
09-10-2011, 17:30:41
It was indeed an all inclusive Woo! Greg, you know me so well... :D

Greg W
09-10-2011, 21:37:47
:lol:Wales won't even get to the quarters.How wrong were you? :D

I can't help but think that, should the All Blacks beat us next weekend, then they'll win the cup. France only seem to have one major upset in them per World Cup and that was against England (though the rankings would suggest otherwise).

If we somehow manage to beat the All Blacks, then it's a much more open final IMHO. Unfortunately I can't remember the last time we beet the All Blacks in NZ, so I think the Blacks will win on the next two weekends to wrap it up.

Funko
10-10-2011, 07:28:10
You would think England had lost to Tonga the way the press are hammering them here. No disgrace losing to France is it? The performance was a bit crap, but France played really well in spells too.

Semi-Finals will be really interesting.

MOBIUS
10-10-2011, 08:25:27
:lol:How wrong were you? :D

Clearly I was trying to embarrass them into action to prove me wrong - it's obviously working very well so far.

They're going to lose in the semis... :cute:

Funko
10-10-2011, 09:46:15
Tizzy said watching England in QF was like watching Scotland... so maybe that's what there is to be embarrassed about. :(

Back!
11-10-2011, 10:51:00
A 1 90,55 NEW ZEALAND
C 2 88,84 AUSTRALIA
D 3 85,69 SOUTH AFRICA
A 4 83,78 FRANCE

B 5 82,89 ENGLAND
D 6 80,79 WALES
B 7 78,83 SCOTLAND
C 8 78,50 IRELAND

B 9 78,40 ARGENTINA
D 10 74,54 SAMOA
C 11 73,88 ITALY
A 12 72,48 TONGA
should everything go according to the ranking, this would be the QF table

AUSTRALIA - WALES
ENGLAND - FRANCE
---
S.AFRICA - IRELAND
NEW ZEALAND - SCOTLAND

to meet in a semi, either AUS or NZL should not win their pool

possible overturns: I frankly don't see any chance about pool winners, except maybe Kiwis choking vs LeCoqs
about runnerups:
Tonga over France? you wish ;)
Argentina over Scotland? that's the closest
Italy over Ireland? in their dreams, albeit not completely impossible
Samoa over Wales? are you serious?

So, indeed Argentina went to QF in place of Scotland, only to crash into the wall blacks

Ireland took Aussie's place as group C winners, causing an all-europe bracket and an all-southern one
Irish got the supposedly softer Welsh, but lost, Aussies got the supposedly tougher Boks, and won
S.Africa must not be happy, considering they were handed in QF one of the only two better ranked opponents
curious pairings came out in QF, and they all went according to ranking

1 b. 9
2 b. 3
4 b. 5
6 b. 8

Greg W
16-10-2011, 09:53:42
Shit!

Which is both a reaction and how we played. :(

maroule
17-10-2011, 07:17:42
well, you had been very lucky against South Africa, to be honest

now, talking about luck :cute:

Funko
17-10-2011, 08:14:06
Might as well give the Kiwis the cup now.

maroule
17-10-2011, 09:50:25
which wouldn't be shocking in itself, they are unquestionably the best team in the world

I don't know if France can actually win it, but I know for sure they'll play much better. They have one great performance in them, and they haven't performed it yet (their england match wasn't it, it was solid but nothing special, and their welsh match was atrocious).

in many respects, this is the ideal set up for France. You couldn't have written it any better. Some bloggers and journalists dismissing them out of hand will be surprised come sunday (esp by the physical intensity of the defence).

don't miss it, it will be worth watching... either you get to see France trashed (always enjoyable for you pigs) or you get to call the NZ chockers for another 50 years... you can't loose this one

Funko
17-10-2011, 09:56:01
Well I was in the Millennium stadium for the QF last time, which was the best sporting event I've ever been to. And even though you surrender monkeyed in the first half the second half comeback was incredible.

I think this NZ is better than that NZ, they seem more focused, and France haven't shown they can play that well yet... but there have been flashes of quality.

So I hope it's a good game, and finals often can be closer than you expect. But I think it's just too far for France to step up. They have got to the final without really having to play well yet. And they'll have to play very well on Sunday.

maroule
17-10-2011, 12:04:02
all true...

is this NZ better than the other one? I think they're one notch down in terms of quality with Carter out, but they had the priviledge of loosing, so won't be as complacent (and therefore will be harder to beat... this team won't have any problem trying a drop goal in the dying minutes)... however, they won't outmuscle the french scrum as they did the australian one, that's for sure


but to state the obvious, my hinch is based on nothing factual... certainly, as you point out, there is no shred of evidence to back an upset.

Funko
17-10-2011, 12:28:21
I think they are a bit more solid defensively than the previous team, but maybe they just haven't had a serious test yet. (I didn't see their semi-final.)

maroule
17-10-2011, 13:13:59
the semis were a serious test, but they were so superior that Australia looked shite... the NZ scrum certainly looked improved

Funko
21-10-2011, 12:39:10
Interesting stuff here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/oct/20/rugby-world-cup-france-all-blacks

Funko
24-10-2011, 08:03:19
Wow.

Well played France. :beer:

maroule
24-10-2011, 08:22:45
yeah, I was expecting something like that

the Saun edwards article was interesting but completely wrong... France didn't play the attritional war at all, the blacks did! but then again totally impossible to predict...

a few remarks;

1/ the best team in the world and in the tournament won, the best team on the night lost... I don't have a problem with Blacks winning, but I'm sure glald they had to shit their pants for it, after a lot of the bullshit we heard from their press...

2/ it's been said before but it's still true; there is one set of rules for all rugby players in the world, and one set for Ritchie McCaw...

Funko
24-10-2011, 08:53:15
I didn't think you'd be able to keep up that intensity for 80 mins, and I think the pressure really got to them. Both the pressure of the event and the pressure of your play.

English defensive coach FTW (or FTNarrowLoss)

maroule
24-10-2011, 10:18:21
yeah, David Ellis is well known and liked in France (at least among the rugby fans)

Fistandantilus
27-10-2011, 10:01:13
This was one of the very few times I was rooting for the french :(

maroule
28-10-2011, 12:19:27
ah!
you must have felt dirty and taken 5 showers

Funko
28-10-2011, 12:29:53
If he was feeling French wouldn't he have felt dirty and not taken a shower?

maroule
28-10-2011, 15:05:45
well, he wouldn't have felt dirty but quite seducing
why ruin it with a shower?