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paiktis
23-06-2011, 21:29:17
I was just passing with the SO outside syntagma square (where all the protests take place) and it seemed very quite and utterly funny.

I try to think of the overall situation and having read articles in domestic press, european press, american press, I don't know that's what I gather.

I think that in the end the EU is still going to exist.
But I have some questions regarding who will be the next german chancellor.
Anyway, I know nothing of this so I'll just keep saying that:

the "savior" plan will not work (again).
there will not be an unplanned default


now based on the next balance of powers in the EU: if germany agrees there will be a eurobond and finally a distribution of wealth in a unified economic system.

if germany (and other countries) do not agree but there's still a will to guard the euro
then what i see is this:

massive write offs of the greek debt, clean slate and then very careful new lending to greece.

nobody loses but the banks and they shouldn't have loaned in the first place. stupidity doesn't pay.

and ALL happy!

mr_B
23-06-2011, 21:33:46
true
should be good that stupidity and greed would me punished for once

Fistandantilus
23-06-2011, 22:03:52
I also approve of stupidity and greed to punish mr_B

mr_B
24-06-2011, 07:04:39
AND i AGREE WITH FIST

Funko
24-06-2011, 07:19:38
SO WE AGREE. MRG SHOULD BE FISTED FOR HIS GREED.

mr_B
24-06-2011, 08:31:44
DEAL

paiktis
24-06-2011, 12:45:25
there's no economic analysis like counterglow economic analysis :coolgrin:

Provost Harrison
24-06-2011, 22:30:18
So Marvin Gaye was in Stigmata Square?

Oerdin
25-06-2011, 01:37:03
There will likely be some write downs but there will be no clean slate. Greece will have to pay most of it's past debts.

mr_B
25-06-2011, 17:50:02
how are your countries
debts doing Oerdin?

Oerdin
25-06-2011, 23:26:39
Manageable but growing too fast due to a dysfunctional political system. Greece's problem is their debts are no longer manageable otherwise they wouldn't need any bailouts.

mr_B
26-06-2011, 12:57:13
so you really really believe your debts are manageable?
the propoganda is doing their work is the U S of A then

Lazarus and the Gimp
26-06-2011, 16:49:14
Beats me why Luxembourg isn't in the news.

GDP- $40.81 billion (2010 est.)
Gross external debt- $1.892 trillion (30 June 2010)

Oerdin
26-06-2011, 20:58:30
so you really really believe your debts are manageable?
the propoganda is doing their work is the U S of A then

Last I checked debt services takes up around 8% of the US national budget. Bad but manageable.

mr_B
26-06-2011, 21:11:04
and when was that?

mr_B
26-06-2011, 21:29:48
Beats me why Luxembourg isn't in the news.

GDP- $40.81 billion (2010 est.)
Gross external debt- $1.892 trillion (30 June 2010)

population: 500,0000
so we dont give a fok

Fistandantilus
27-06-2011, 09:53:14
But but, Greeks are friendly people! At least to italians. Their friendship toward us borderlines racism against others as I discovered while spending 10 days there on easter vacation :lol:

Other than the usual "One face, one race" saying which we heard several times here is a short (Darkstar would agree) was was story happened to me few months ago.

We (me, gf, couple of friends) are on a narrow road crossing a small village on the way to Delphi and obviously, as it always happens when mr tomtom can't connect and I'm the backup plan regarding the navigator role, we are completely lost.

Only thing we can do is stop and ask for directions but as I said road is narrow and there are more tourists than locals so finding a good place to stop ain't easy.

But! Being italian assholes we live by the motto "If something is forbidden you don't do it, but if there is someone else already breaking the law you're fine doing it too."

So, as there is this german bus choke full of tourists parked in a 'if you stop here you really cause trouble and traffic jams" place, friend of mine suggests to just stop behind it and we all blissfully agree.

Gf goes to find some greek to ask stuff about the road to the oracle but at the time I stupidly forgot that "asking for directions" according to my gf also means buying postcards, go shopping for useless trinkets and "you really have to buy me because I'm such a bargain.." accessories so I realize shortly after she goes out of sight we are in for a long wait.

And that is when the angry shopkeeper comes out yelling stuff at the german bus people saying they can't stop there and throwing random insults in their general direction. Me becomes worried.

After a fiery discussion the bus finally leaves and shopkeeper turns over me those full-of-anger-eyes and start yelling at me too.

As the only greek words I know are kalispera, kalimera and a few useless others I try to explain in my poor english that we are just waiting for gf to return and we will leave shortly, in fact she should have been back already.

Apparenlty my italian accent is easy to spot as he asks me "oh, but.. you're italians?" "Yes" "No worries then! Leave the car there as long as you like, not a problem at all!"

First reaction is he's making fun of us and it takes me awhile to realize he was not ironic and meant what he said, he even goes as far as to offer us all a coffee while we are waiting!

Flabbergasting stuff. Of course after that we eventually end up leaving insane amounts of money in his shop to buy the most ridicously overpriced souvenirs ever :o

Funko
27-06-2011, 10:24:42
I think it's maybe not that they particularly like Italians, they just absolutely hate the Germans because of WWII occupation.

An old pub friend of mine spent a long time in Greece... when he arrived he was hitchhiking, and had a German Army Surplus coat. Eventually someone really aggressive came up and spoke to him... when it turned out he was English they guy said "why you wear that coat?" with evident disgust. He replied "they make clothes that don't wear out" or something. And the Greek guy nodded sagely and invited him to stay with him, have a meal etc.

Funko
27-06-2011, 10:25:01
Maybe not all Greeks, but still widespread.

Fistandantilus
27-06-2011, 10:31:29
Yeah, could be.

paiktis
27-06-2011, 16:26:40
Yeah I've come across this "Antigerman" thingie even long before the crisis (in the army) and it's sad because germans, the ones I've met were really polite and well behaved.
But I guess there is still somewhat an "ingraved" "dislike".
I don't know what's the spirit nowadays though but I'd find it very suprising for someone to be rude to a german tourist simply because it happens to be german. Normally that doesn't happen since you've got that personal touch, and why be rude face to face? it's inpolite and "inhuman".

For the italians, yeah, greeks seem to really like them, i don't know why but this is really ingraned in the psyche. and the una faca, una raca, is something everyone seems to know :coolgrin:

paiktis
27-06-2011, 16:36:38
jes this /I\ :D
_______I

Oerdin
28-06-2011, 19:42:00
So has Paiktis set a police car on fire yet? I understand it is all the rage in Athens and as an added bonus he could claim it was a protest about his frenulum disability. ;)

paiktis
28-06-2011, 20:21:18
haha :)
No I strongly disagree and I am enraged at the enragers!
The way I see it, there was a very big completely peaceful demonstration some weeks back. That was during the first general strike. No violence at all and people had been in the syntagma square for days without one single incident.

Then these.. "protestors" come and destroy.... letting police use tear gas (they can't do it if the protest is peaceful) and as a consequence the crowds of peaceful people who were there to protest have to evacuate the square (and take with them a huge presure that they were puting in the government).

The way I see it these violent "protestors" are the govs. best friend. The gov. isn't afraid of them. What it is afraid of is huge peaceful crowds gathering. And with these violent "protestors" the gov. gets an excellent opportunity to attack and break up the huge rallies...

On a personal note, I tried to go to syntagma square today and protest PEACEFULLY but couldn't reach it even not by afar, the tear gas atmosphere was that suffocating...