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Greg W
03-07-2010, 14:05:27
Oh my, German goal after 3 minutes! :eek:

Greg W
03-07-2010, 14:24:54
23mins and Klose should have made it 2-0!

Greg W
03-07-2010, 14:38:16
Goal to Argentina! Well, except for the small matter of 4 Argentinians offside!

Greg W
03-07-2010, 14:42:56
And the linesman flags for a foul! Hang on, he arms for a foul! He dropped the flag... :o

Greg W
03-07-2010, 14:51:09
1-0 to Germany at halftime.

Germany look dangerous on the attack pretty much every team. Their speed, their vision, their movement, their passing game - all good. Only some profligate finishing has cost them what could have been a greater lead.

Argentina started very slowly. They have defensive issues, looking almost like Australia or England at times as Germany cut them open. But they have started to look dangerous in attack and shown that they could still pull this one back yet. If only their defence can hold up. And Messi can keep a shot under 15 feet high!

Greg W
03-07-2010, 15:25:37
Germany 2-0!

Klose was awfully close to being in front of Podolski though. I'd like to see the line on that one!

Greg W
03-07-2010, 15:31:21
3-0 to Germany! No doubt about that one. Awful defending from Argentina! Germany through...

Greg W
03-07-2010, 15:37:19
Yellow card to Mascherano and he's out of the Semi. Oh, hang on...

Greg W
03-07-2010, 15:39:14
C'mon, just one moment of brilliance from Messi before we bid him goodbye...

King_Ghidra
03-07-2010, 15:44:07
This is just the art of simple football played brilliantly. Pass and move, pass and move. It takes three of their players to carve open twice as many defenders.

I for one prefer to see the individual brilliance of football, but right now no team is playing better than Germany. They are teaching the rest of the world a real lesson, with what i think is still a very moderately talented team (with one or two exceptions).

Greg W
03-07-2010, 15:45:51
4-0 Germany!

Greg W
03-07-2010, 15:49:08
Yep. And it just goes to show that a brilliant team will normally beat a team of brilliant players.

What gets me is the speed in the transition between defence and attack. One moment they're defending with 9 or 10 behind the ball. 20 seconds later they're most of the way down the field with a few passes and some great runs, with the opposition defence cut to shreds.

maroule
03-07-2010, 15:54:43
what a spanking!
great!

now Argentina joins the ranks of the big flops... Maradona and is players will be eviscerated for that, and the team traumatised for a decade...

King_Ghidra
03-07-2010, 15:57:25
now Argentina joins the ranks of the big flops...

:lol: and coincidentally they were your tip to be a flop ;)

well getting to the QF is not a flop imho...but if it makes you feel better...

Greg W
03-07-2010, 16:02:56
Well, it's not a BIG flop. Whether it is a flop at all is open to debate I guess. The result certainly is though.

There's a point though - does your floppiness relate at all to who you're drawn to play? In England's case I'd say it's not a mitigating circumstance as they were their own worst enemies in finishing second in the group. In Argentina's case though, it was natural progression.

maroule
03-07-2010, 16:37:14
having lived five months in Buenos Aires, i can tell you all the argentines will talk of a massive flop, and the press will be merciless

floping is in the eye of the beholder, and they'll know they have flopped...
and Maradona will be sacked... oh joy

Mightytree
03-07-2010, 17:08:09
Ok ...

I didn't expect that.

:beer:

Ellipsis
03-07-2010, 17:30:14
I expected Germany to win, but that was decisive.

novacane
03-07-2010, 20:21:37
I think this is, potentially, the best German team in living memory. I think they have been thrilling at one end, and surprisingly solid at the other where Boateng was hugely impressive today. They are a very talented and disciplined group of young players.

I am delighted to see a team, who took a gamble on a 5-6 youngsters, threw them in alongside 5-6 experienced internationals such as Schweinsteiger and Lahm (who still incidentally have years ahead of them, because they were also introduced at a young age), be rewarded with relative success. They are truly the model. Das Model.

Mightytree
03-07-2010, 20:22:29
There's no way we have to be afraid of this Spanish team, but FFS, the chances Paraguay had in that game ... :bash::bash::bash:

Drekkus
03-07-2010, 21:26:26
Scheisse, Germany was impressive. And spain less so.

Greg W
04-07-2010, 07:25:13
Paraguay showed just how to shut Spain down. For all their flair, for Villa, Torres, Iniesta, Xavi and Alonso; for all they they were toothless for the first 60 minutes or so. It was only when Paraguay tired that Spain started Creating chances.

As for those penalties... :eek:

I am shocked after seeing the replay that the ref didn't give Paraguay another shot as there were 5 Spanish players in the box when the kick was taken.

Fistandantilus
04-07-2010, 10:16:22
Yeah and there was another penalty for Spain just after the one they missed. Guess they balance them out :lol:

King_Ghidra
04-07-2010, 16:35:45
Paraguay showed just how to shut Spain down. For all their flair, for Villa, Torres, Iniesta, Xavi and Alonso; for all they they were toothless for the first 60 minutes or so. It was only when Paraguay tired that Spain started Creating chances.

I don't really agree with this. I just don't think Spain were on their game. Torres has been poor all tournament so pretty much every time it ended up at his feet Spain lost it. Xabi Alonso was misplacing many passes. The spain we imagine - slick short passing moves - was only playing in their own half.

Mark Bright on bbc commenatry made the ludicrous claim that Villa and Torres were all down the middle, which was entirely the opposite from the problem. Villa and Torres were playing like wingers most of the time. We all know Villa plays in a very similar way to Henry in his pomp a lot of the time. He gets the ball wide left, looks to skin someone and takes a shot. Great when it works, but the rest of the time it finds villa losing possession or crossing to an empty box. Torres was just playing like a shit winger, running down blind alleys or crossing it off the pitch.

Spain looked much better to me when fabregas replaced torres and they played through the middle more. That is playing to their strengths - short passing, great first touches, and we finally saw a couple of decent chances and a proper goal.

maroule
04-07-2010, 19:35:20
I was surprised they didn't bring their other lanky forward, the one who replaced Torres last time to such positive effect

Back!
05-07-2010, 07:02:28
The spain we imagine - slick short passing moves - was only playing in their own half.

That is playing to their strengths - short passing, great first touches, and we finally saw a couple of decent chances and a proper goal.

Hi, I chime in after the weekend and after you said it all already

Re: Spain play in their own half, that's what I've been posting here about in the last 3 weeks, Drekkus.

Re: proper goal:
and yet, it had to bounce off a post first, and then Villa hit the inside post too before it finall got in....
:clueless:

Back!
05-07-2010, 07:10:07
This is just the art of simple football played brilliantly. Pass and move, pass and move. It takes three of their players to carve open twice as many defenders.

I for one prefer to see the individual brilliance of football, but right now no team is playing better than Germany. They are teaching the rest of the world a real lesson, with what i think is still a very moderately talented team (with one or two exceptions).

again, I only have to concur with what you posted

Back!
05-07-2010, 07:38:39
1-0 to Germany at halftime.
...
Argentina started very slowly. They have defensive issues, looking almost like Australia or England at times as Germany cut them open. But they have started to look dangerous in attack and shown that they could still pull this one back yet. If only their defence can hold up. ...

and yet, I have to say that in the last 15' of 1st half, and in most of the 2nd half till Germany doubled ('68) Argentina had got hold of the game, they progressively applied more and more pressure, and managed to build a good deal of deecente chances, albeint none blatant.
Germany was not sitting back nor in panic, they kept on defending as a well organised team, had a couple attack forays, but the pressure and the initiative of the game was in argies hands for a good 35-40 mins.

I remember that at 65' I was thinking:
"what a great game! maybe the best in WC so far.
Argentina probably deserves to equalise now, and it might get even better"
Bang! Klose 2-0

Klose was great in *braking* as to remain behind the ball-line.
He probably wanted to first stop the ball and then put it in.
Well, his stop was awful, the ball bounce forward all the small-box depth.
It practically turned out as a perfect tap-in, although I think that's not what he wanted to do. All alone with the goal wide open, it made no difference
:D


In summary, despite Brazil got ahead and risked to go 2-0 with that great Stekelenburg save on Kaką, despite they enden the game only 1 goal down, I was left with the feeling that Brazil had been much more powerless and miles away from the slimmest hope of equalising vs.Holland, whereas Argentina looked effectively in contention and concretely close to equalising, before the dam broke in the last 20'

Greg W
05-07-2010, 13:26:36
That was kind of what I was saying. They were doing wuite well there towards the end of the second half. But I was always worried that Germany would just cut them open at any moment. And they did.I don't really agree with this. I just don't think Spain were on their game. Torres has been poor all tournament so pretty much every time it ended up at his feet Spain lost it. Xabi Alonso was misplacing many passes. The spain we imagine - slick short passing moves - was only playing in their own half.

Mark Bright on bbc commenatry made the ludicrous claim that Villa and Torres were all down the middle, which was entirely the opposite from the problem. Villa and Torres were playing like wingers most of the time. We all know Villa plays in a very similar way to Henry in his pomp a lot of the time. He gets the ball wide left, looks to skin someone and takes a shot. Great when it works, but the rest of the time it finds villa losing possession or crossing to an empty box. Torres was just playing like a shit winger, running down blind alleys or crossing it off the pitch.

Spain looked much better to me when fabregas replaced torres and they played through the middle more. That is playing to their strengths - short passing, great first touches, and we finally saw a couple of decent chances and a proper goal.Oddly enough, that period also coincided with when Paraguay got tired and started giving Spain much more time on the ball. More time and space made them look much better. As did Fabregas coming on and pushing Villa back into the middle, where he had been playing as a wide left winger until then.

I don't necessarily disagree with your analysis, but I also think that Paraguay's high pressing game gave Spain so little time on the ball that it made it very hard for them to play their usual game. Every time they got the ball, bang, there was a defender on their hammer. To me, that helped make them look more ordinary.

Funko
05-07-2010, 13:33:55
I think this game puts the England match into perspective a bit.

Greg W
05-07-2010, 13:47:12
And makes me feel a hell of a lot better about our first match!

Funko
05-07-2010, 15:40:35
:D

Back!
06-07-2010, 07:10:55
at least England scored two goals vs Germany

Funko
06-07-2010, 07:42:30
And hit the bar twice, they count as half a goal each at least. ;)

maroule
06-07-2010, 08:20:26
oh I like this game

let me try; and the mighty semi-finalist Uruguay, the powerhouse, could only draw against the modest yet plucky French team! ah ah, we're vindicated

Funko
06-07-2010, 08:24:33
Imagine what you could have done if you'd been in an easier group!

Back!
06-07-2010, 09:07:37
pushing your imagination at your wildest, you could have been in a group with Paraguay, Slovakia, New Zealand, the weakest group in WC history!

Greg W
06-07-2010, 13:50:28
at least England scored two goals vs GermanyYeah, but we did it with 10 players for 2/3 of the game. :p

And at the end of the day, England scored one goal! The other was ruled out by the officials. :p

Funko
06-07-2010, 14:13:49
Well Kewell shouldn't have handballed it. Naughty Kewell.

:D

Greg W
06-07-2010, 14:41:48
Kewell didn't handball it in that match. :p

Funko
06-07-2010, 14:47:29
:lol: Which match was that?

Greg W
06-07-2010, 14:49:50
That was the Ghana match! Cahill got sent off against Germany! :p

Funko
06-07-2010, 14:52:11
I had forgotten about Cahill. He whinged a lot too didn't he.

Fistandantilus
06-07-2010, 14:59:42
:lol:

Greg W
06-07-2010, 15:26:04
I had forgotten about Cahill. He whinged a lot too didn't he.Almost as much as the English about the 2nd non-goal!

Mightytree
07-07-2010, 18:37:07
The media have been hyping up the German team so much the last couple of days that we can only lose to Spain. I've got really bad feeling about this game ...

Drekkus
07-07-2010, 19:10:16
Spain is by far the better team. The germans are defending with 10 men, waiting for a quick counter. Spain are masters of the game, but find it hard to crack the defensive positions.

Mightytree
07-07-2010, 19:20:46
Reminds me a lot of the EC final.

Drekkus
07-07-2010, 19:24:44
i really hope spain scores first, so germany actually has to push forward

Mightytree
07-07-2010, 19:48:42
This is shockingly bad. It's like we're collectively asleep. We can't make two passes in a row to save our lives and keep giving the ball away going forward. Pathetic. :bash:

Drekkus
07-07-2010, 20:10:03
Blam, that is what you call a header.

10 exciting minutes left to play.

Fistandantilus
07-07-2010, 20:20:29
Bye bye Germany.

Drekkus
07-07-2010, 20:24:02
fully deserved win for spain.

Now we will finally see two attacking teams play each other in the final. Very, very excited about that game.

Mightytree
07-07-2010, 20:24:22
I can't wait to see how the German pundits will try to excuse this SHIT. Fucking morons pissing away a WC semi-final like that. No aggressiveness for 90% of the game. Idiots. :bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

Mightytree
07-07-2010, 20:33:26
Now we will finally see two attacking teams play each other in the final.

The Dutch haven't played a single good game offensively so far. "Finally two attacking teams"? As if we hadn't played good offensive football this tournament. :hmm:

Fistandantilus
07-07-2010, 20:34:19
Blame the octupus

Drekkus
07-07-2010, 20:35:31
:lol:

Drekkus
07-07-2010, 20:36:28
Now where's that quote of mine where I claim spain were playing world class, and our italian spain hater told me otherwise :D

Fistandantilus
07-07-2010, 20:46:12
The Dutch haven't played a single good game offensively so far. "Finally two attacking teams"? As if we hadn't played good offensive football this tournament. :hmm:

No, you played excellent, amazing, cynical counterattacking football.
You scored on a goal kick!!! and had the luxury of scoring very early on a set piece against the argies. Then you expoited the space they left behind.

Nothing wrong about it but you clearly have lots of problems scoring against an organized defence. You fell behind twice and lost both times.

Drekkus
07-07-2010, 21:07:58
The dutch so far have faced 5 teams that leaned on the defense. Only Brasil didn't and promptly got ahead in the 10th minute. And then holland had to fight back from behind.
I'm not saying holland played six brilliant games, but it usually takes two to make a good game.

Mightytree
07-07-2010, 21:56:23
Nothing wrong about it but you clearly have lots of problems scoring against an organized defence. You fell behind twice and lost both times.

Which team is a good attacking team then? By your definition it can't be Spain either, because they had HUGE issues scoring against an organized defense throughout the whole tournament too. :hmm:

We fell behind against Serbia and lost because we failed to convert at least one of our numerous chances, including a penalty. We also were down one man for more than an hour. I'd say considering the circumstances we played pretty damn fine attacking football that game. We also played really awesome in the first half against England. We had plenty of really good chances there, none of which were the result of a counterattack. And you can't really blame us for scoring after 3 minutes against Argentina, can you? Also, you may want to check how many of our goals against Argentina were actually due to counterattacking ... :hmm:

The problem against Spain was simply that we hardly had the ball because we were too passive and let them play too easily. After Spain had scored and we had to be more aggressive, I thought we actually looked quite ok offensively. Seriously, I think the claim that we aren't a good offensive team just because we scored a couple of counterattack goals is total bollocks.

And as far as Holland is concerned, I think they've been extremely ordinary in their offense for the most part this tournament. I simply object to the claim that this is a final of two good attacking teams. It's not true. How many of the Dutch goals were actually due to good attacking and not due to shots from 40 meters out, deflected shots, own goals or goalkeeper mistakes? IMO The Dutch don't really belong in this final.They were totally dominated by the Brasilians in the first half of their QF, and then weren't really that great in the 2nd half either. Brasil lost that game because they put the ball into their own net and then self-destructed, not because the Dutch were that strong. And apart from Brazil they didn't really play anybody of significance. They remind me a lot of Germany from WC 2002. We didn't belong in the final back then either and then got dominated by Brasil. And I expect the Dutch will get dominated by Spain on Sunday too.

Sorry, but I just can't hold back my dislike for this Dutch team. ;)

Drekkus
07-07-2010, 22:18:03
Ah well. What irony if Germany supposedly played dutch and the dutch played german.

Greg W
08-07-2010, 01:37:52
Ah, so we will get another first time winner of the WC then. Cool.

Noting that I haven't watched the match... Shame in some ways to see Germany go out. They have been one of the more exciting teams to watch. Many of their goals were counterattacking football, but IMHO that's been more exciting to watch than many of the other sides. The sheer speed of their counterattack has been staggering at times.

Just watching the highlights, there could have been a few goals for both sides from the looks of it. But Spain did look more creative after they were stifled by Uruguay.

Back!
08-07-2010, 07:05:02
Now where's that quote of mine where I claim spain were playing world class, and our italian spain hater told me otherwise :D


1. WHO's italian???? :bash:

2. I'm not a Spain hater, I was being objective, and I was pissed off that Spain was playing the most boring football of the WC, without a single idea against weaker teams who erected barriers in front of their box.

3. Spain COULD play world class, but they were NOT DOING IT.
FINALLY, against a stronger team, capable of defending collectively and counterattack dangerously, they stepped up their game. They HAD to.
FINALLY, we saw Spain putting some ideas in their possession, trying to pry open the organised german defense and play more vertically, instead of JUST chewing the ball horizontally 90% of the time "because they have a superior midfield".

In this WC Spain played 6 games
5 SHIT games
1 decent semifinal
- FACT!

they still can do better, although I hope Holland wins

PS:
XAVI is world class
VILLA is lucky and overrated
:p

Back!
08-07-2010, 07:18:06
The problem against Spain was simply that we hardly had the ball because we were too passive and let them play too easily.

After Spain had scored and we had to be more aggressive, I thought we actually looked quite ok offensively. Seriously, I think the claim that we aren't a good offensive team just because we scored a couple of counterattack goals is total bollocks.

The problem against Spain was simply that you hardly had the ball because you finally faced a team that didn't let you the ball too easily.

After Spain had scored and you had to be more aggressive, all you could put toghether offensively were 10 frantic minutes throwing the ball in a crowded box, like ANY other team in the same position did and is capable to do. Seriously.....

You ARE a good offensive team: you are a good offensive team against teams with a weakly organised defence
Strong vs the weak, weak vs the strong
:p

I dont' think you played worse than your other games.
e.g., Argies put you back in your box for over half an hour, with much more pressure and a bit more danger than Spain honestly did. But you were ahead already, and Argies defense is terrible, so all you needed was a couple breaks at the right time
You played with the same team spirit, organization and initiative you always had. It's just the effect was different because the level of the opoposition was different.

you were a semifinal-worth team 4 years ago
you are a semifinal-worth team now

that's much more almost any other team in the world can claim
nothing to be sad or depressed about that

Funko
08-07-2010, 07:49:32
43 goals in 60 odd internationals, he must be VERY lucky.

Drekkus
08-07-2010, 10:30:53
btw, I never claimed Holland was a GOOD attacking team :D It's just that Holland is about the only team that has had more ball posession than the opponent in all 6 games, unlike Germany who had less than their opponents in all games after the group phase. I know ball posession doesn't say all that much, but what ever you say about Holland, they're not leaning back and let the opponent make the play.

Back!
08-07-2010, 11:06:10
true, they don't lean back
they just stand and let them thru

;) :p

when I saw robinho's goal, I thought:

did anyone explain holland that *central defenders* are supposed to be *central* by definition?
the two stood 20 metres apart, an open highway for robinho to run in the middle

Drekkus
08-07-2010, 11:21:21
:D
that was caused by the fact that during warm up Joris Mathijsen got injured and had a last minute replacement by Andre Ooijer, shifting positions around in the back. So there was apparantly some confusion about who was covering who. Not that it wasn't a very good play by the brasilians.