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Sean
17-05-2002, 17:36:08
£210 for two purple controllers, purple GameCube, Super Monkey Ball, Rogue Squadron, and a memory card. Damn this thing is tiny, especially next to the X-Box, and the disks and memory cards are tiny as well. The controller(s) is (are) a dream, but best of all, I can play it using my Radeon!

Mightytree
17-05-2002, 17:52:47
consolez suk

Fistandantilus
17-05-2002, 17:54:21
Funky will not be pleased. Unless you own a PS2, that is...

Sean
17-05-2002, 17:59:18
Why would I want a PS2 and a PSX?

PosterBoy
17-05-2002, 21:19:05
I don't know whether to get a gamecube or ps2
I don't particularly like most nitendo games and I can play my playstation games on a ps2, so I am biasing with that, but the graphics of Star wars look pretty good

Sean
17-05-2002, 21:47:29
The graphics on Rogue Leader are f--ing awesome, and I’m only on the first mission.

If you don’t like Nintendo games, a) why not?, and b) why bother with a GC?

Herman
17-05-2002, 22:43:16
I don't like Nintendo games because I played them on NES, SNES, and N64 and I think it's time they stop milking the same franchizes, and I'd also wish people stop mindlessly playing them and instead demand something new out of Nintendo.

Rogue Leader looks nice, sounds nice, and plays nice, but after a couple days you'll realize there's zilch to replay value.
Same with Luigi's Mansion.
And most games. :D

Herman
17-05-2002, 22:44:12
I would also be lynched by everyone I know for having a little purple cube disturb the awesomeness of the appearance of my home theatre system. :D

Sean
17-05-2002, 22:52:25
If you want good-looking, why do you prefer X-Box to PS2?

I get the impression that perhaps you haven’t been playing the same games as me. The reason people keep playing the Nintendo games is because they keep getting better and better and better. There is no killer game for the X-Box (no, Halo is not that great).

The replay value for the games is generally in the multi-player arena (c.f. Mario Tennis, ISS, Quake). I can think of very few single-player games that follow a set storyline with lots of replay value. The only case where they do is when there is more to unlock: Rogue Leader would appear to have gazillions of little bonus bits to do, which I can spot after only a couple of hours. Question is, have you actually completed it yourself or are you going on hearsay?

Herman
18-05-2002, 02:18:55
Originally posted by Sean
If you want good-looking, why do you prefer X-Box to PS2?
I own both Xbox and PS2.

I get the impression that perhaps you haven’t been playing the same games as me. The reason people keep playing the Nintendo games is because they keep getting better and better and better. There is no killer game for the X-Box (no, Halo is not that great).
I really disagree.
Halo really is great, tremendous replay value as the AI gets better and plays differently on each settings, you can play coop (great for small parties), play deathmatches, etc. :b:
I also really enjoyed JSRF and Rallisport Challenge.
Quite frankly, the only game that interests me on the Gamecube is Rogue Squadron and Resident Evil, and I got my fill of that at a friend's dorm. :)

I can think of very few single-player games that follow a set storyline with lots of replay value.
*cough* Halo *cough*

Question is, have you actually completed it yourself or are you going on hearsay?
I haven't fully completed Rogue Squadron, it was amazingly similar in gameplay to the N64 game I own so it didn't hold my attention for too long.

And after I got over RE's amazing graphics it was largely the same as the original PS game.

I'm sure there's tons of fun games for you on the GC, but from what I've seen and from what I've played it's not something I'd personally spend my money on. Not my bag, baby. I get my fill of GC games at a friend's house.

Herman
18-05-2002, 02:21:50
To be honest if I got a GC it'd be in a year or so, at least.

Nintendo has the uncanny ability to constantly delay games, they're right up there with Blizzard.

Zelda's now in the Feb 2003 timeslot...
And what is Nintendo thinking? Cell-shading? UGH.

Nintendo's boggling my mind: They're out and about preaching how they're not a kiddie company, but then all of their first party games are kiddie in appearance. The only "mature" content is from third (or in the case of Rare, second) party developers.

They're shooting themselves in the foot, especially with this half-assed attempt at multiplayer gaming they just announced.

Sean
18-05-2002, 10:14:58
Half-assed? They make the best party games!

The X-Box is still, to my mind, the ugliest console since the SNES. The sheer size of it counts against it, as well as that dirty green splodge.

I also like the cel shading, as it takes us away from this whole ‘more polygons faster now!’ mentality and tries to create a unique look.

I know about the delays :rolleyes:.

I will agree with you on Rogue Leader, though. It is very similar to the first game, and certainly shallower than X-Wing Alliance, the only other Star Wars game I own. OTOH, I couldn’t get into Halo after a couple of hours of cycling between single-player and multi-player.

What the hell, it’s not like I can’t play on an X-Box and you can’t play on a GameCube anyway :beer:.

Herman
18-05-2002, 19:00:40
Originally posted by Sean
Half-assed? They make the best party games!
I'm talking about their half-assed approach to online gaming.
Basically their "big announcement" was you can buy a ethernet/56K adapter for $35US and if the developer of the game goes and makes their own servers and network play, you can play on it.

The X-Box is still, to my mind, the ugliest console since the SNES. The sheer size of it counts against it, as well as that dirty green splodge.
Looks excellent in a home theatre rack. It sits right above my DVD player, and is actually smaller. :)

OTOH, I couldn’t get into Halo after a couple of hours of cycling between single-player and multi-player.
Your loss. :)

What the hell, it’s not like I can’t play on an X-Box and you can’t play on a GameCube anyway :beer:.
I still might get a GC after a price drop and Metroid Prime, Eternal Darkness, and another RE is out. :)

Sean
18-05-2002, 19:06:18
Uh-huh, so you only play multi-player online?

Metroid Prime looks the worst of the original Nintendo franchise games—just another Turok.

Herman
18-05-2002, 19:31:01
Originally posted by Sean
Uh-huh, so you only play multi-player online?
Nope, but it certainly doesn't hurt to have both, does it?
Xbox has 4 controller ports + broadband, and Xbox Live sounds like an awesome system. Developers are mandated to support the voice controller in the game (you can even morph your voice to sound different), it's still optional for players but why wouldn't you? :) You have buddy lists with your favorite opponents, you can challenge them to any game in your library while you're playing a totally different game. Once they accept the challenge you both just swap the DVDs and it connects you to a fat-piped Xbox server and you play with little to no lag.

You can also play unlimited Xbox games per month for either $10 or $15/mo (details are coming at E3), rather than Sony/Nintendo's strategy of letting publishers all charge seperately for their games. Which means if you're playing PSO, you pay $10/mo, if you're playing EA Sports games online, that's another $10/mo, etc. And they don't even keep track of global rankings like Xbox Live either. :)

Or if you don't want to subscribe to Xbox Live, you can just use XbConnect (which has already been out for months now) which is exactly the same as Sony/Nintendo's offerings.

So when I see a company just announce the availability of a modem, and then say the developers can do what they want with it, I think it's pretty much an afterthought on Nintendo's part.

Metroid Prime looks the worst of the original Nintendo franchise games—just another Turok.
Turok was one of my favorite N64 games. I'm already really looking forward to the new Turok game, but it's coming to all platforms so I wouldn't need a GC for it.

Sean
18-05-2002, 19:40:38
Oh, Turok was a fun game, especially Rage Wars, but it wasn’t all that. Not next to Goldeneye.

Of course it doesn’t hurt the X-Box, except that EA (who may be scum, but are big scum) aren’t playing ball, which means people will probably go over to the PS2. Witht he X-Box’s sales already looking poor (and MS making big losses), this could be another Great Console Disaster, like the 32X.

Herman
18-05-2002, 19:47:37
Originally posted by Sean
Oh, Turok was a fun game, especially Rage Wars, but it wasn’t all that. Not next to Goldeneye.

Of course it doesn’t hurt the X-Box, except that EA (who may be scum, but are big scum) aren’t playing ball, which means people will probably go over to the PS2. Witht he X-Box’s sales already looking poor (and MS making big losses), this could be another Great Console Disaster, like the 32X.
I'm not sure what you're talking about Xbox sales being poor. Here in NA it's doing extremely well, and that's what matters to me.

The local electronics retailer, Future Shop, has been sold out of Xboxes since the price drop wednesday, and even before the pricedrop Xboxes have been outselling GameCubes in North America, despite being $100US higher. Now it's a slaughter.

Gamecube wasn't really successful yet in Japan, or in North America, but Europe seems to be eating it up, Peculiar. :)

Don't worry to much about the losses. Recent estimates put Xbox construction costs at around $230-$270US, which means they were already pulling a profit for months before they lowered the price. And considering MS has $40B in the bank, I don't think it's much a big deal. They actually estimated losing $8B over 5 years on the Xbox (1), they're just trying to get the foot in the door.

And regarding EA: I can't believe some people can't see through their PR.
They're not making this year's EA Sports games online on Xbox because they want to charge $10-$15 to play any and all EA Sports games per month, which they're "allowed" to do on other consoles since publishers all charge their own thing. Under the Xbox, if it's going to go online it must be under Xbox Live, which means they can't rip off the consumer by charging that amount of money just for EA Sports games.

They're not looking out for customer's rights (as they say in their interviewS), they're looking for the customer's money.

And quite frankly, I've been really disappointed with their games lately. In NHL 2002, Yzerman is rated "65", which is HORRIBLE, there's no slapshot physics either. And FIFA World Cup 2002 was also really disappointing.

I'm going to probably switch to Sega's sports games.

Sean
18-05-2002, 20:25:46
Originally posted by Herman
[B]I'm not sure what you're talking about Xbox sales being poor. Here in NA it's doing extremely well, and that's what matters to me.

The local electronics retailer, Future Shop, has been sold out of Xboxes since the price drop wednesday, and even before the pricedrop Xboxes have been outselling GameCubes in North America, despite being $100US higher. Now it's a slaughter.

Gamecube wasn't really successful yet in Japan, or in North America, but Europe seems to be eating it up, Peculiar. :)Sure. The GC is currently outselling the X-Box in Japan (http://www.planetxbox.com/), and had a 1.1m head start (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-11-876795.html).

From CBS (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/15/tech/main509108.shtml).Worldwide Xbox sales have been slower than expected. Microsoft says it expects to have shipped 3.5 million to 4 million consoles by the end of June. That's down from an earlier estimate of 4.5 million to 6 million.



The other major player in the console market, Nintendo, has sold about 4 million of its GameCube units worldwide since their November 2001 introduction. GameCube already was selling for $199 in the United States, and Nintendo said there are no plans to cut that price.Slaughter, you say? I can’t seem to find good figures for North America, but I would imagine that the order there is PS2 -> X-Box -> GameCube.

This shows that sales for X-Box are poor, BTW, because they have had to revise their estimates down.

Anecdotal evidence from my local EB: staff in there yesterday, when I went to pick up a GameCube, were actively discouraging people from buying the X-Box, saying that it was dead in the water. This is included to show the value of anecdotal evidence, not because I think they are right.

Regarding EA: I do not like their sports titles, in particular their football games. Konami’s Winning Eleven series for the PSX/PS2 sets the standard there. However, EA have clout, and this will affect Microsoft.

I already have one Sega game for my GameCube: I nearly fell of my chair when I saw the Sega logo appear on a Nintendo console. Super Monkey Ball is a really fun party game. Sega’s sports titles used to be good, but I haven’t seen much in the way of new ones recently.

Herman
18-05-2002, 21:56:22
Originally posted by Sean
Sure. The GC is currently outselling the X-Box in Japan (http://www.planetxbox.com/), and had a 1.1m head start (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-11-876795.html).
Yeah, I know.
There's no Japanese-esque games on Xbox, I'm actually surprised it's doing so well.

MS should, IMHO, pull out of Japan and save the money.

From CBS (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/15/tech/main509108.shtml).Slaughter, you say? I can’t seem to find good figures for North America, but I would imagine that the order there is PS2 -> X-Box -> GameCube.

This shows that sales for X-Box are poor, BTW, because they have had to revise their estimates down.
They revised their estimates down because of poor European and Japanese showings, North America is exceeding expectations and is doing phenomenally well.

Anecdotal evidence from my local EB: staff in there yesterday, when I went to pick up a GameCube, were actively discouraging people from buying the X-Box, saying that it was dead in the water. This is included to show the value of anecdotal evidence, not because I think they are right.
The people from your local EB are morons, considering there are 250 Xbox games being announced at E3 and 75 already on the shelves. More than Gamecube...

The people telling you the Xbox is dead in the water are exercising wishful thinking, nothing more.

MS has $40B, is determined to make it work, and is getting more and more first party developers all the time as well as recruiting third party developers. 3DO, for example, swore they'd never do Xbox games over a year ago, and just now announced 3 in development.

And since Xbox is outselling GC by a large margin in North America, and has more games coming down the pipe, and has more marketing muscle, and has more powerful hardware -- I don't see how anyone can honestly say it's dead in the water.

My predictions are all consoles will survive this round, but Nintendo will pull a Sega and milk their franchises on multiple consoles instead of releasing a new console.

Herman
18-05-2002, 22:03:43
Quite frankly, Japan is useless to me. I don't enjoy many Japanese games, so I don't need the Japanese developers, and I'm so tired of the GC fanboys running around screaming "Our console, which has more Japanese titles and a famous Japanese brand name is outselling the big American console with no Japanese games in Japan!". Well, no shit. :D

If you actually looked at the figures for Japan, the GC's figures are also really pathetic. Japan is Sony's playground now.

And same goes for Europe. I really don't care if the Xbox is only going to sell 1M consoles there. What I care about is NA (that's where I live), and the Xbox is doing so well here more and more developers are jumping on board and making games, and I'm pleased.

Sean
18-05-2002, 22:46:02
What? Japan and Europe are each worth almost as much as North America in sales terms, so a healthy share of these markets is necessary for any console.

You brought up Japan, and then completely reversed the argument. You said you wanted Sega Sports titles, then said you didn’t want Japanese games.

The X-Box had only outsold the GameCube in North America by 0.2m on the sales up until the end of 2001. If you have any more figures for North America, I’d love to see them, because Google is just throwing up that story, even in the news search. I’m not entirely convinced that the GameCube being outsold by a large margin. In fact, the BBC says (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/new_media/newsid_1988000/1988824.stm) that Microsoft has been secretive, so how do you know, hmm?

Speaking of figures, I can’t find an estimate of the number of games to be previewed at E3 on any of the fan sites, or the official site. A cursory glance at Gamespot’s list (http://gamespot.com/gamespot/features/video/big_list_e32002/) mentions ‘really exciting games--games like Mario Sunshine, The Legend of Zelda, Shinobi, Soul Calibur II, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic’. That is three GameCube exclusives (well, Sould Calibur II will go to the arcades as well), a PS2 exclusive, and an X-Box exclusive. And that is the sort of recognition, even in America, that Japanese developers have (four of the five were from Japanese developers). Because they are the best, and they have been developing console games for the longest.

Sean
18-05-2002, 22:51:35
Back on to my original topic. Rogue Leader, the Maw mission is bloody irritating, and after a couple of dismal attempts I left it. I came back to it later, and, just as the mission was approaching the critical point, the bit where the TIEs swarm at you, I accidentally dismissed my wingmates. This created the second most fun (see below) I have had with this game so far, fighting off a swarm of TIE Fighters and Interceptors in a Y-Wing.

The msot fun moment I have had is at the start of the next mission, suicidally careening towards a Star Destroyer in my B-Wing, trying to destroy the shield generators amid a decade-of-disco’s worth of lasers.

And to think the first few missions were boring :D.

Herman
19-05-2002, 00:49:39
Originally posted by Sean
What? Japan and Europe are each worth almost as much as North America in sales terms, so a healthy share of these markets is necessary for any console.
Yeah, for overall success.
I think it's perfectly fine for a console to be only in North America.

You brought up Japan, and then completely reversed the argument. You said you wanted Sega Sports titles, then said you didn’t want Japanese games.
I meant Japanese in style games. Pikmin, Mario, etc. :D
I don't care about where they're made, just the style.
And IIRC, Sega Sports is based in the USA anyway.

The X-Box had only outsold the GameCube in North America by 0.2m on the sales up until the end of 2001. If you have any more figures for North America, I’d love to see them, because Google is just throwing up that story, even in the news search. I’m not entirely convinced that the GameCube being outsold by a large margin. In fact, the BBC says (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/new_media/newsid_1988000/1988824.stm) that Microsoft has been secretive, so how do you know, hmm?
VoodooExtreme.com posts weekly hardware sales in North America, and Xbox was consistently selling more than the GC per week (and PS2 consistently selling more than Xbox), and with the recent $100 price cut Xboxes and PS2s are flying off the shelves to the point of being sold out, while the GC's only real advantage (price) has been taken away. And without any AAA games in sight until the end of the year for the GCN, things don't look very good for North America Gamecubers.

Speaking of figures, I can’t find an estimate of the number of games to be previewed at E3 on any of the fan sites, or the official site. A cursory glance at Gamespot’s list (http://gamespot.com/gamespot/features/video/big_list_e32002/) mentions ‘really exciting games--games like Mario Sunshine, The Legend of Zelda, Shinobi, Soul Calibur II, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic’. That is three GameCube exclusives (well, Sould Calibur II will go to the arcades as well), a PS2 exclusive, and an X-Box exclusive. And that is the sort of recognition, even in America, that Japanese developers have (four of the five were from Japanese developers). Because they are the best, and they have been developing console games for the longest.
To be honest, I don't see why Mario Sunshine is "really exciting". If it wasn't Mario, but a new character, I can guarantee nobody would give a rats ass about the game. The graphics are average at best, and the gameplay looks identical to Mario 64.
And I really don't like the look of the cell-shaded Zelda, and I'm definitely not alone with that opinion.
Shinobi looks interesting, but isn't that coming to PS2?

The GameSpot list is a bit misleading. Notice, for instance, it shows 0 Xbox games from Microsoft on the list? :D

For the past couple months Xbox game announcements have been intentionally withheld for the most part, because MS wants to dominate E3 with Xbox.

Herman
19-05-2002, 00:58:16
Here's some "really exciting" Xbox games that will most likely be shown at E3:
Halo 2
Project Ego
Brute Force
Splinter Cell
Metal Gear Solid X
GTA3 Xbox (Rumored, confirmed over a year ago but not reconfirmed nor canceled since)
Dead to Rights
Indiana Jones
Quantum Redshift
LOTR: Fellowship of the Ring
ToeJam and Earl III
Crazy Taxi 3
MechAssault
DOOM III
Duality (this game is looking awesome -- check the IGN trailer)
House of the Dead 3
Ninja Gaiden (Rumored)
Sega GT 2002
Ghost Recon
Yager
Knights of the Old Republic (who can resist a Bioware-developed Star Wars RPG?)

Keep in mind these are the only announced and a couple rumored games, and they're expected to go all out with announcements for games (particularly MS' first party games). And this is just my personal list. :D

Sean
19-05-2002, 10:14:24
Thanks for the VoodooExtreme tip, but (but!) the last set I could find, from March, showed the X-Box outselling Gamecube by a whole 2,000 units and in the lead by 309,000. Now, sales will have picked up after the price drop but it has only been in effect for a couple of days. Sony, in fact, came out of that best with a rather dirty trick to preserve their lead, but that’s the sort of think MS does in PC land.

Most of those are cross-platform efforts. Oddly, the two that I am most excited about aren’t: Project Ego and Knights of the Old Republic. I would check the IGN trailer, but I’m not a subscriber. If you can (sssh!) FTP it somewhere I’d be happy to take a look at it.

Of course, you are working a lot on rumour here. The rumoured replacement for Zelda this Christmas is a re-working of Ocarina of Time, but until we get to E3 we won’t actually know. Nintendo have a tendency to wait for Spaceworld before making big announcements (like the cel-shaded Zelda). MS just don’t have that option.

Sean
19-05-2002, 10:45:11
Rumour mill: Gamecube to drop to $149 in the middle of E3 (to draw attention away from not many new games).

http://www.pojo.com/videogames/cube/articles/05172002_4.shtml

Nav
19-05-2002, 13:57:13
Herman, if you didnt already know this, you can actually get black versions of the GC. Which is good if your sense of style stops you buying purple products. :)

Sean
19-05-2002, 14:15:16
But that black isn’t as good as the X-Box black :).

Herman
19-05-2002, 21:08:17
It's not just the color, it's the shape. Where the hell am I going to put a top-loading cube in a home theatre rack? :D

Nintendo have a tendency to wait for Spaceworld before making big announcements (like the cel-shaded Zelda). MS just donít have that option.
MS will probably start doing it at Meltdown (which previously has been a Developer for PC Game conference where they discuss the latest iteration of DirectX and whatnot). I can see them announcing new stuff there, considering it's about six months after E3. Perfect for them.

Regarding the FTP: Do you have broadband? It's a hefty file, IIRC.

Herman
19-05-2002, 21:12:37
Most of those are cross-platform efforts.
I don't see it.
The only "cross platform" games I see are MGSX and GTA3 (which are must haves, considering what fun games they are). :D

The only other cross platform game looks like "Knights of the Old Republic", which I'm not sure even counts, considering the only other platform it's going to is PC and that's six months after the Xbox version. DOOM III is coming to PC too, but for consoles it's only on Xbox. And Ghost Recon is on PC too, but no other consoles.

Sean
19-05-2002, 21:46:16
I have mediumband :). Cable modem, but only 128kbps.

Herman
20-05-2002, 09:25:09
As of tuesday the Gamecube is $149US in the USA.

Sean
20-05-2002, 16:21:43
So it is cheaper by the price of a game. Again.