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paiktis
03-06-2010, 12:04:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo&feature=player_embedded#!

imagine having to go down with a rope on a ship and be awaited by that...

took some balls...

paiktis
03-06-2010, 12:06:49
I'd also like to point out having done (compulsory) military service that when someone tries to take your gun you hit him with the back of the gun in the head. If he indeed manages to take your gun (and you have another one) you shoot him. It's very clear cut rules (maintaining your calm comes naturally when in life threatening situations)

Drekkus
03-06-2010, 12:22:28
It's a sad sad situation over there. Always two sides to every story.

Nills Lagerbaak
03-06-2010, 12:28:23
The poor IDF.

paiktis
03-06-2010, 12:33:35
palestinian supporters are very often ultra fanatics. has to do with short comings in their personal lives i think.

on a geopolitical level, judging that the majority of the supporters were turks (since when turks cared about anything else except turkey) i think it was very much staged.
a game of chicken. that unfortunately took some lives and that is a tragedy.

turkish military (turkish gov i mean) is beautiful at staging things.

paiktis
03-06-2010, 12:49:27
i have something to do but i dont want to do it so i'll write a bit more if that's ok.

that reminds me of the imia episode in the aegean.

there were some rocks and each morning some greek mayor of some adjucent small island went there an raised the greek flag. what can you do.

then some turkish "journalists" (were they really) took a small boat and put down the greek flag and raised a turkish one.

doh.

then maybe we fucked up a little cause a captain of a greek frigate happened to pass by, saw the turkish flag and thought wtf????

so he casually came down and took the turkish flag down and raised the greek one.

also maybe we overreacted because we put out at the open sea all our frigates submarines etc etc in 10 minutes.

if that was a case of deranged journalists we overeacted. of it was turkish provocation then no.

but it is very suspicious what happened next. marines got down on one island. protected it as it were.

then turkish marines went down on another rock island.

but there were greek marines on that other island also.

so they arrest the turkish marines and make them take out their clothes. sounds kinky but that's what they did.


then both sides kind of said relax dont do it.

BUT thats the strange part, listen to this, one year later all turkish marines that were on tha island are now DEAD!!!!!

car accidents, freak assassination roberies etc etc why?
(greeks didnt do it)

Drekkus
03-06-2010, 12:54:02
Is this a true story? disgraced the turkish national feelings maybe?

paiktis
03-06-2010, 12:54:43
yes but to go so far as to kill them?
it wasnt just one or two, the whole marine team that was down on that island is dead now.

Drekkus
03-06-2010, 13:03:05
you have link/source for that?

paiktis
03-06-2010, 13:04:45
YES!
I will find it and post it. I think it's from bbc too

paiktis
03-06-2010, 13:09:15
a no. can't find it on bbc but it is there i remember seeing it.
but here is the reportage in greek
it was also in the turkish newspapers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_locQUZSwE&feature=related

paiktis
03-06-2010, 14:01:34
i did more search on the bbc and couldnt find anything...
also i read on some forums that turkish newspapers denied that this happened.
i also found out that it is virtually impossible to check this out since the names of the turkish commandos are confidential so, noone in the open public knows them, and so noone can tell with certainty, but 9 died on a helicopter crash, 2 in a car accident and 1 allegendly their leader was knifed outside a bar in turkey and was killed, according to the reportage. (12 were in imia according to the reportage)
apologies for the confusion, i suppose there is no way of knowing for sure now.

Funko
03-06-2010, 14:04:27
9 dying in one crash makes it much more realistic it could just be chance. The unit likely to stay together. If it wasn't just Greek papers making shit up. :)

Lurker
03-06-2010, 15:40:58
This is a very instructive thread.

Funko
03-06-2010, 16:20:21
So quick to criticise.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
03-06-2010, 16:26:25
I'm surprised by the total political and military incompetence displayed by Israel in this affair. Okay, they have Netanyahu, but still....

MDA
03-06-2010, 16:51:08
You've really got to wonder why they thought it was a good idea to hit those ships at all. They had intel that indicated WMD on board?

Israel once sank a US Navy ship for getting too close to their business and suffered almost no consequences, I don't expect this to change much of anything in the long run.

paiktis
03-06-2010, 17:11:44
I don't think they wanted to lose face, putting up a blockade and then allowing anyone who wished to enter it...

What suprises me is that turkey was so much involved. nearly 600 turks were aboard that's stupefying a number. Maybe some dissaray between islamist erdogan (pro muslims in general) and the kemalist military (pro-west and unfortunately too pro let's go to the west)

paiktis
03-06-2010, 17:16:52
But once you're dedicated to block a flotilla of ships there are two options i think. one is to sink them but you can't do that without total international condemnation or do what they did.
i admire the courage of the israeli soldiers though. it isn't a mistake they have managed to stick it out for so long.
would you do it? because it's for sure you might very well be killed climbing down that rope.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
03-06-2010, 17:28:50
If you start a blockade, you have to enforce it. But boarding these ships would have been more a job for riot police.

As for the fallout, Israel is slowly losing support in the West. The indicent with the US navy was at the height of the cold war, so not really comparable.

paiktis
03-06-2010, 18:04:12
Riot police in mid sea ships?
Is this the austrian navy speaking? :)

Dyl Ulenspiegel
04-06-2010, 07:08:51
Yeah, I forgot that police can't board ships. And tear gas doesn't work on the sea.

Drekkus
07-06-2010, 12:14:24
Iran to escort a convoy to Gaza. Total middle east blow up in 3, 2, 1...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/06/gaza-blockade-iran-aid-convoy

Funko
07-06-2010, 12:17:14
It's ok Tony Blair is the UN peace envoy, he'll save the world.

MDA
07-06-2010, 12:20:07
Hey Sodbuster, listen,
You wanna put that microbus in behind the suicide jockey?
Yeah, he's haulin' dynamite,
He needs all the help he can git.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
07-06-2010, 13:06:18
Could we just blow up Tony Blair and leave the ME alone?