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MOBIUS
04-04-2010, 18:26:52
Welcome to the Tory party of the 21st Century...

So, basically the same as it's always been then - the Bigot party.

Secret tape reveals Tory backing for ban on gays

The Tories were embroiled in a furious row over lesbian and gay rightson Saturday after the shadow home secretary, Chris Grayling, was secretly taped suggesting that people who ran bed and breakfasts in their homes should "have the right" to turn away homosexual couples.

The comments, made by Grayling last week to a leading centre-right thinktank, drew an angry response from gay groups and other parties, which said they were evidence that senior figures in David Cameron's party still tolerate prejudice.

In a recording of the meeting of the Centre for Policy Studies, obtained by the Observer, Grayling makes clear he has always believed that those who run B&Bs should be free to turn away guests.

"I think we need to allow people to have their own consciences," he said. "I personally always took the view that, if you look at the case of should a Christian hotel owner have the right to exclude a gay couple from a hotel, I took the view that if it's a question of somebody who's doing a B&B in their own home, that individual should have the right to decide who does and who doesn't come into their own home."

He draws a distinction, however, with hotels, which he says should admit gay couples. "If they are running a hotel on the high street, I really don't think that it is right in this day and age that a gay couple should walk into a hotel and be turned away because they are a gay couple, and I think that is where the dividing line comes."

Ben Summerskill, chief executive of the gay rights group Stonewall, said the comments would be "very alarming to a lot of gay people who may have been thinking of voting Conservative".

He added: "The legal position is perfectly clear. If you are going to offer the public a commercial service – and B&Bs are a commercial service – then people cannot be refused that service on the grounds of sexuality. No one is obliged to run a B&B, but people who do so have to obey the law. "I don't think anyone, including the Tories, wants to go back to the days where there is a sign outside saying: 'No gays, no blacks, no Irish.'"

Labour said that Grayling's comments ran contrary to the Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2007, which state that no one should be refused goods or services on the grounds of their sexuality.

Grayling voted in favour of the regulations, which apply to the provision of "accommodation in a hotel, boarding house or similar establishment".

Last month, a Christian B&B owner in Cookham, Berkshire, was reported to the police for refusing to take in a gay couple as guests. Susanne Wilkinson said she had expected a man and woman, but when two men turned up she did not feel she could accommodate them because to do so was "against her convictions". The couple said they were considering suing, not for money, but "for a principle".

Chris Bryant, the Europe minister, who last weekend became the first gay MP to be married in the Commons, said from his honeymoon in Edinburgh: "Anybody who thinks that the Tory party has changed should think what it would be like to have Chris Grayling as home secretary. It is impossible to draw a distinction between bed and breakfasts and hotels. It is very clear that very senior Tories have not realised that the world has moved on."

A Conservative spokesperson said last night that Grayling had been clear about the obligations on hotel owners, but declined to be drawn on his views on B&Bs: "Chris Grayling was absolutely clear that in this day and age a gay couple should not be turned away from a hotel just because they are gay couple."

The row will alarm David Cameron as he prepares for a general election that looks certain to be called on Tuesday. The Tory leader has gone out of his way to win over gay and lesbian voters by stressing his new-look party's liberal credentials. Last year, he apologised for section 28, the law passed by Margaret Thatcher's Tory government in the late 1980s that bans the promotion of homosexuality in schools. Cameron has also voted in favour of civil partnerships.

However, his progress in attracting the gay vote has been halted by a series of disputes involving his own MPs and MEPs. Tory MEPs last year refused to support a motion that condemned a new homophobic law in Lithuania.

Cameron was also left embarrassed during a recent interview with Gay Times, broadcast by Channel 4 News, in which he admitted he did not know his party's position on a series of votes involving gay rights issues in the UK and European parliaments.

Chris Huhne, the Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman, said: "Chris Grayling's plan would allow discrimination to thrive, as every bigot was given a licence to opt out of equality rules. These views… show how far the Conservative party still has to travel before reaching the modern age."

The culture secretary Ben Bradshaw, who is openly gay, said: "What is critical at this election is whether David Cameron is for real and whether his party has actually changed. Yet again the mask has slipped."

If elements (the guy who could be the next Home Secretary, no less!) of the Tory party think it's OK to ban gays, then banning people from B&Bs on the grounds of race is hardly a great leap...:rolleyes:

Asher
04-04-2010, 18:45:27
Iain :q:

Asher
04-04-2010, 18:48:22
Now that I've read the article, I don't think it's all that terrible.

If it's a small, family-run B&B then they can admit who they want as far as I care.

MOBIUS
04-04-2010, 19:18:59
Well I'm not even gay and I think it's the thin end of the wedge: If it's OK to ban gays from your B&B, then why not start getting racist as well...?

Asher
04-04-2010, 21:26:30
If it's a private B&B (assuming they are hosting from their home), then they can do whatever the fuck they want as far as I care.

Oerdin
04-04-2010, 23:03:57
I hear the Tories stand a pretty good chance of winning the next election.

Asher
05-04-2010, 01:09:32
Look at it this way: If I hosted a B&B in my home, I fully expect the right to tell pushy, obnoxious homophobic Christians to fuck off and find somewhere else to stay.

Greg W
05-04-2010, 02:15:18
But that's not how discrimination works. Women can have all women gyms and that's not sexist. But if men want an all men's club, that's discrimination! Same way that it's ok to make it illegal not to give a job to a person of ethnic minority if he/she has the same qualifications as their white counterpart! It's ok to discriminate against the majority, just not against any minority!

Asher
05-04-2010, 04:57:38
To be fair, discrimination against a majority is a rarity, by definition.

Funko
05-04-2010, 10:49:03
But that's not how discrimination works. Women can have all women gyms and that's not sexist. But if men want an all men's club, that's discrimination! Same way that it's ok to make it illegal not to give a job to a person of ethnic minority if he/she has the same qualifications as their white counterpart! It's ok to discriminate against the majority, just not against any minority!

Sounds like bullshit. Employment law here says it's illegal to discriminate on basis of race, sex or disability. This means you can't refuse to employ someone for being a straight white man any more than you can discriminate against them for any other reason.

There's seems to be this strange mass delusion here that straight white men don't have every advantage possible. They find it easier to get work are better paid, rise to higher positions (hold most directorships/political offices etc.). I'm sure that's true in Australia and the US too.

But if women or minorities do, despite all the obstacles, make it to decent positions they just get people bitterly complaining that they only got the job because of their minority.

Which is pretty offensive really, suggesting someone couldn't possibly be as intelligent or well skilled as the straight white man so must have got the job as some kind of positive discrimination.

MDA
05-04-2010, 11:16:53
Good post! Now get your bitch ass back in the kitchen and make me some pie.

Funko
05-04-2010, 11:26:46
:beer:

MDA
05-04-2010, 11:43:13
or, get Tizzy some wine, I suppose

Funko
05-04-2010, 11:47:36
Sadly I can't. She's at home, I'm at work.

Provost Harrison
05-04-2010, 12:02:22
You're at work today?

Greg W
05-04-2010, 15:57:42
Sounds like bullshit. Employment law here says it's illegal to discriminate on basis of race, sex or disability. This means you can't refuse to employ someone for being a straight white man any more than you can discriminate against them for any other reason.Well, it's enshrined in law here that Aboriginals get a bunch of rights that nobody else gets. One of which is employment. If an Aboriginal with the same qualifications applies for a job with any other number of people, you have to give it to the Aboriginal or you're discriminating against him.

I am pretty sure that it's more widespread than that too, in terms of minorities receiving rights if they have the same qualifications. Was talking to a person in HR about it years ago.

To give you further examples that I know are FACTS about advantages that Aborigines get:
- a certain number of guaranteed spots in Universities and TAFE
- access to better welfare benefits
- access to free or highly discounted housing
- preferred positions in government jobs (especially those dealing with Aborigines)

And don't get me wrong. After everything we have done to them, they deserve it all and probably more - actually, they need a lot of help that simply throwing money at the problem won't fix but that's another story. It's still discrimination enshrined in law though.

And to give a further example,the government recently legislated that preference is to be given to Gen Y people as they as a group have higher unemployment than the norm. A whole generation given legislated preference for jobs! It's a joke! :bash:

Asher
05-04-2010, 17:25:06
Aborigines get extra rights because you stole their land.

You are guests on their land. They get home field advantage.

Resource Consumer
05-04-2010, 17:33:49
"Private". Absolute bullshit.

If you advertise for business or ply for hire then you cannot run from discrimination.

Example. I may choose not to give you a lift in my personal car if you were a foul and decomposing Adlof Hitler (or Eugene Tereblanche for that matter) but if I advetise for business is it right that I should add "Dead racists excluded". Oh, but it is MY car, I can do what I like. Absolute weaselshit.

MDA
05-04-2010, 17:56:48
Aborigines get extra rights because you stole their land.

You are guests on their land. They get home field advantage.


I don't really buy into that sins of the father stuff. Greg didn't steal any land. It's great that the government wanted to try help out, but it's tricky determining when to call it even and remove those laws from the books.

Asher
05-04-2010, 20:03:32
"Private". Absolute bullshit.

If you advertise for business or ply for hire then you cannot run from discrimination.

Example. I may choose not to give you a lift in my personal car if you were a foul and decomposing Adlof Hitler (or Eugene Tereblanche for that matter) but if I advetise for business is it right that I should add "Dead racists excluded". Oh, but it is MY car, I can do what I like. Absolute weaselshit.
So you think if your business advertises, you cannot choose who patronizes your establishment?

What a bizarre line to draw.

King_Ghidra
05-04-2010, 22:41:57
Is it less bizarre to have a 'no blacks' sign in your shop window?

:hmm:

I actually do agree that this is not as cut and dried as the paper made out, because as we know certain religious and other minority services are indeed already exempt from the general application of discrimination laws. So the 'thin end of the wedge' that mobius mentioned already exists.

Asher
05-04-2010, 23:36:58
Is it less bizarre to have a 'no blacks' sign in your shop window?
People are bizarre.

Just seems like an arbitrary line to draw in legislation.

Nills Lagerbaak
06-04-2010, 07:41:20
I don't really buy into that sins of the father stuff. Greg didn't steal any land. It's great that the government wanted to try help out, but it's tricky determining when to call it even and remove those laws from the books.

He may not have stolen any land but still benefits from the stealing of the land.

Funko
06-04-2010, 07:53:02
It's certainly true that your average Aborigine is still totally fucked in Australia. Which possibly makes the positive discrimination justified.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
06-04-2010, 09:17:37
I hear the Tories stand a pretty good chance of winning the next election.

I'd rather expect a hung parliament.

Labour has a big advantage in the voting system. Last time, they won 35:32 % (popular vote).

According to the guardian, a 7% swing (assuming libdems no change), ie 28:39%, would still yield a hung parliament.

Funko
06-04-2010, 10:45:33
I expect Lib Dems will drop their percentage for a couple of reasons

1. It's very tight, so people more likely to vote for the big parties less 'protest votes' when the actual government is at stake.
2. They have a crap leader. (Admittedly this is true of all the major parties, but the Lib Dems have previously been a weak party with good leaders, now they are a weak party with a crap leader.)

MOBIUS
06-04-2010, 11:01:51
I too am hoping for a hung parliament, but if there's one thing being a lifelong Lib Dem voter has shown me, is that whenever there seems to be a glimmer of hope that things will change for the better, that they will be cruelly dashed, and usually for the worst case scenario - so I'm expecting a comfortableish Tory win...:rolleyes:

I don't think Clegg is a crap leader as such, just lacking a forceful and charismatic personality. I think he is growing into the role, but too slowly for my liking. Still, we shall see with the 3-way party leader debates that are happening this time around - which, in itself, is a coup for the Lib Dems!

Ironically Clegg was chosen by the party for his 'dynamic personality', so work that one out! Cable didn't stand because of what happened to Menzies Campbell and the ageist brigade. So IMHO Chris Huhne was and still is the best leadership candidate, I voted for him over Clegg, and I even voted for him over Campbell the first time around. His achilles heel though is that he holds a slender 500ish vote majority in his seat over the Tories...

Dyl Ulenspiegel
06-04-2010, 11:36:28
Well, try the guardian election map, it's fun. If the libdems lose 3% and labour 5% (30%), for a tory gain of 8% (40%) - still hung.

Higher losses for libdems, less for labour - more likely to get a hung parliament.

Since the last tory win (I think in 92?), labour's advantage in the voting system seems to have grown a lot.

Funko
06-04-2010, 11:45:48
Yes, they are redrawing the election boundaries soon, before next election I think. Which might even things up.

Unless we get a hung parliament and the Lib Dems somehow force proportional representation through a coallition...

Dyl Ulenspiegel
06-04-2010, 12:22:52
I think this has little to do with the boundaries. It's more about the conservatives "wasting" more votes in their strongholds.

Funko
06-04-2010, 13:04:55
And when the boundaries move some of those currently 'wasted' votes will be in more marginal seats.

MOBIUS
06-04-2010, 13:22:28
The boundaries controversy is just another indication why this country is a 'democracy' in name only...:rolleyes:

Dyl Ulenspiegel
06-04-2010, 13:39:52
And when the boundaries move some of those currently 'wasted' votes will be in more marginal seats.

Sure, but just "some", and it's just a side effect.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
06-04-2010, 13:40:14
The boundaries controversy is just another indication why this country is a 'democracy' in name only...:rolleyes:

I wish we had your problems...

King_Ghidra
06-04-2010, 16:35:54
One thing which is quite interesting about the UK system is the number of elected representatives it leads to. 650 this time round. That is really quite large for a country of our size.

The Italian parliament elects 315, the US house of representatives elects less than 450, the french less than 600, the germans 622, all of which in proportion to their population is considerably lower than us.

Obviously in our case and re the above arguments it is clearly tied to the individual constituencies, and one possible side effect of a PR system coming into play would be a culling of MP numbers.


Unless we get a hung parliament and the Lib Dems somehow force proportional representation through a coallition...

I just don't see it happening given the disastrous weakening of the two main parties it would cause. If that was the ultimate price of temporary power i suspect the two big boys would still reject it and return to the polls in order to maintain their long-term advantage. The day it does happen uk politics will never be the same again, that's for sure - it would likely be hung parliaments, coalitions and a lib dem kingmaker from there on, and you can argue the toss over whether that would improve anything, depending on whether you think a strong govt is a good or bad thing.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
06-04-2010, 17:30:30
For the nr of MPs: Not really. The French have I think 577 constituencies, the Germans 299 where in each 1 MP is elected.

King_Ghidra
06-04-2010, 17:58:19
fair enough. i was thinking of a strict party list system, but from what i can see, almost all of the places that actually use pr still have a strong regional element, as you suggest. either way, uk citizens currently get a lot of representation (and expense claims :p)

Dyl Ulenspiegel
06-04-2010, 18:20:09
Not sure what you mean. The french do not use PR (but two-round majority vote), and half of the german MPs (299) is not elected by PR, but by first past the post.

But if you think you're "overrepresented" - we have 183 clowns for 8 million people.

Funko
07-04-2010, 08:19:40
I just don't see it happening given the disastrous weakening of the two main parties it would cause. If that was the ultimate price of temporary power i suspect the two big boys would still reject it and return to the polls in order to maintain their long-term advantage. The day it does happen uk politics will never be the same again, that's for sure - it would likely be hung parliaments, coalitions and a lib dem kingmaker from there on, and you can argue the toss over whether that would improve anything, depending on whether you think a strong govt is a good or bad thing.

Yes, and I don't think the Lib Dems will have enough MPs to do anything.

I'd probably favour retaining Constituency MPs, but with the votes based on a transferable vote. Which would probably have less impact overall, but make some change. It is good being able to approach your local MP about local matters.

Funko
07-04-2010, 08:21:26
Yes, I'd favour something more like the French system. (burning trucks full of farm animals optional)

zmama
07-04-2010, 08:44:07
tsk tsk bbq's always good for getting the vote out!

Funko
07-04-2010, 10:03:11
Normally better to butcher the animals first, or at least take the fleeces off.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
07-04-2010, 10:13:53
And then put them into the dutch slowcooker.

Funko
07-04-2010, 10:19:57
With 40 bulbs of garlic.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
07-04-2010, 10:30:43
Garlic Party!

King_Ghidra
07-04-2010, 10:31:02
The fact that what you really vote for is a local MP does make a difference. I'm strongly considering (against all natural instinct) voting tory, not because i have any particular preference for dave as pm, but because the local tory candidate will be an excellent mp

her name is joanne cash and she is well named in that respect because she's married to a millionaire, the brilliantly named Octavius Black. But apart from that rather traditional tory association with money, she is a quite famous lawyer (named as one of Observer's 10 'modern freedom fighters', one of Vogue's 50 'women of the age', etc. ) and from what i've seen, a very deserving candidate. Bizarrely i think she's going to be fighting this campaign while five or six months pregnant, so good luck to her on that!

Certainly she has made far more strenuous efforts in my constituency than anything i've seen of the labour or lib dem candidates, so i think she'll be getting my vote. If that helps cam be pm well so be it, but i suspect parliament will be the better for her presence.

Funko
07-04-2010, 10:33:24
Are you sure that's not the biography of a Bond villain and his wife?

Funko
07-04-2010, 10:37:03
I changed my vote at the council elections after one of the candidates came to canvass...

That said: politicians, if you knock on the door on a Saturday morning forcing me to get up in case you are the postman I won't vote for you. On a Sunday I'll probably assume you are a Jehovah's witness and not bother getting out of bed so that's less bad.

MOBIUS
07-04-2010, 11:41:05
The fact that what you really vote for is a local MP does make a difference. I'm strongly considering (against all natural instinct) voting tory, not because i have any particular preference for dave as pm, but because the local tory candidate will be an excellent mp

her name is joanne cash and she is well named in that respect because she's married to a millionaire, the brilliantly named Octavius Black. But apart from that rather traditional tory association with money, she is a quite famous lawyer (named as one of Observer's 10 'modern freedom fighters', one of Vogue's 50 'women of the age', etc. ) and from what i've seen, a very deserving candidate. Bizarrely i think she's going to be fighting this campaign while five or six months pregnant, so good luck to her on that!

Certainly she has made far more strenuous efforts in my constituency than anything i've seen of the labour or lib dem candidates, so i think she'll be getting my vote. If that helps cam be pm well so be it, but i suspect parliament will be the better for her presence.

I read her biography and agree that she would make a great MP - despite her local party chairman doing his level best to get her deselected only a couple of months ago! Fair enough, but that just makes her an exception rather than the rule as far as the rank and file Tory party is concerned...

As for the Lib Dems in Westminster North, I rather think that guy is paper candidate seeing as they have no hope whatsoever of winning that seat (7.5% of the vote!). You'll be lucky if you even get one leaflet through the door. And that is not because they don't want to fight that seat, just that they don't have the resources to fight every seat in the country when the other two parties get many times more money in donations either from the trade unions or big business and can blitz a constituency with targeted mail drops and pay people to deliver leaflets!

Here in Cardiff, the Lib Dems are relatively strong (largest party on council, an MP and an AM), however when I became involved I was shocked at how few people were actually involved behind the scenes! Literally across an entire city of 330,000 there are something like a couple of dozen truly active members - of which there is a hard core of about a dozen. That is virtually our entire resource for getting the Lib Dem message out to the city!

Your local Lib Dem PPC is Mark Blackburn: http://markblackburn.wordpress.com/ or twitter if you prefer: http://twitter.com/markblackburn

PS, I'm impressed - he is making an effort!

King_Ghidra
07-04-2010, 11:51:03
funny that a few of the uk posters here (and i think of departed ones like kitsuki and EiF) have become politically active. working that back does that mean the new generation of uk political animals have had their skills honed on games of Civ?

Funko
07-04-2010, 11:53:33
Last time I saw Kitsuki he was chucking it in having been massively disillusioned by the amount of bickering mud-slinging etc.

Certainly EiF's facebook status seems to be purely updated with sneering anti-labour jibes. Not appealing to me at all.

Debaser
07-04-2010, 11:55:12
I used to love SimCity, maybe I should run.

*plans new railway in the shape of my signature*

King_Ghidra
07-04-2010, 12:13:08
Sadly one of the PM's powers isn't spawning godzilla attacks at will

Funko
07-04-2010, 12:13:37
Nav doesn't take kindly to that.

MOBIUS
07-04-2010, 12:18:27
Last time I saw Kitsuki he was chucking it in having been massively disillusioned by the amount of bickering mud-slinging etc.

So he finally came to his senses then? I always thought Kitsuki was too nice to be a Tory...

Funko
07-04-2010, 12:20:25
I am not sure the levels of bickering and mud-slinging are any less in the other parties.

MOBIUS
07-04-2010, 12:26:49
Everyone seems like a pretty harmonious bunch here in Cardiff within the party. There is plenty of inter-party mudslinging of course, but in general I can't think of anything where the Lib Dems have been out of order, at least in Cardiff. The other parties OTOH, well...

But I would say that, wouldn't I... :D

Provost Harrison
08-04-2010, 09:38:43
So he finally came to his senses then? I always thought Kitsuki was too nice to be a Tory...

Bless him, I had no idea he was giving up on the ratpack...

Funko
08-04-2010, 10:01:23
He may since have had a change of heart.

Drekkus
09-04-2010, 08:16:39
"Private". Absolute bullshit.

If you advertise for business or ply for hire then you cannot run from discrimination.

...

Exactely. :beer:

MOBIUS
14-04-2010, 11:23:47
http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/04/osbornes-gay-marriage-vow-undermined-by-tory-record/

Osborne’s gay marriage vow undermined by Tory record
8tweetsretweet

George Osborne yesterday said he would be “very happy” to consider same-sex marriage if elected. Speaking to gay rights campaigners who had gathered outside CCHQ to protest the Tory record on gay rights and Chris Grayling’s recent homophobic remarks, the shadow Chancellor claimed the the party had changed, and had “real policies to advance equality”.

A Tory spokesman said Osborne had told campaigner Peter Tatchell that:

“David Cameron and I are very happy to consider the case for gay marriage.”

His remarks cut little ice with the demonstrators, Tatchell saying:

“The Tories are obviously worried that Chris Grayling’s comments in support of homophobic discrimination by B&B owners have undermined their party’s image as being gay-friendly. We only got this meeting with George Osborne because of the planned protest and because of the anti-Tory backlash generated by Mr Grayling’s support for discrimination.”

But Tory claims to have changed were undermined by some of the comments left in response to a story headlined “Cameron pledges ‘heart and soul’ commitment to gay equality” on the grassroots Conservative Home website over the weekend. Examples include:

• Stewart Cowen: “Homosexuals have always been treated with suspicion everywhere. That’s because they engage in unnatural and dangerous sexual acts.”

• Ben Stevenson: “The state should not endorse sexual immorality. What business, therefore, does the state have in “support[ing] gay couples”?”

• bernard Otway: “can,t believe that everyone including call me dave have to Prostrate themselves before a section of the population that is no more than 5%, I am not the ,H, word,just wish they didn,t want to FORCE me by the statute book to support them,my religious convictions infuse my thinking,plus having lived in africa for 28 years,I never once saw a Gay elephant,lion,giraffe ,leopard,cheetah,crocodile,hippo,snake,etc etc etc“

To his credit, editor Tim Montgomerie took action and closed the thread, writing:

“Very disappointing thread. I’m closing it down as strangers are using this thread to, I believe, hurt the Conservative Party.”

Responding to Osborne’s comments, Daryn McCombe, treasurer of LGBT Labour, told Left Foot Forward that “warm words” were cancelled out by the Tories’ recent voting records. He said:

“I welcome any genuine progress by any party on LGBT rights, but time and again Cameron’s Conservatives’ warm words on LGBT rights are not matched by their votes in Parliament. Cameron led his MPs to vote against lesbian fertility rights and on camera Cameron claims he voted for LGB adoption rights yet he didn’t even vote.

“Meanwhile, Cameron’s allies in Europe continue to vote consistently against all equality! In this context Grayling’s support for discrimination is disappointing but not a surprise and Osborne’s latest platitude will mean little to the LGBT communities who’ve watched the Conservatives do anything on camera, but take no action off camera, to advance LGBT rights.”

Even 'Call me Dave' is in on the action...

The Conservatives are to homophobia what UKIP is to the BNP.

Scabrous Birdseed
14-04-2010, 12:44:16
Surely the Conservatives are to the BNP what the Conservatives are to homophobia as well? Few mainstream right-wing parties in Europe are as openly anti-immigration as the Tories.

(BTW, for the "Civ hones political skills" theory, you can chalk me up as well - I'm running for Stockholm city council in our elections this September.)

mr_B
14-04-2010, 12:56:14
ddd

MDA
14-04-2010, 13:24:04
they are all much more bitey than Syrians

MOBIUS
14-04-2010, 23:23:46
Surely the Conservatives are to the BNP what the Conservatives are to homophobia as well? Few mainstream right-wing

Yeah, you're basically right - the Tories are just better at hiding their true selves compared to UKIP and then the BNP just doesn't give a shit about being racists...

More on Tory homophobia:

Tory defectors claim Conservatives are duping voters on gay policy

Labour is buoyed by move that followed Grayling B&B furore, but Gordon Brown hints that unemployment is likely to rise

Labour paraded two Tory defectors who said they had abandoned the Conservative party over its stance on gay rights following shadow home secretary Chris Grayling's assertion that Christian B&B owners should be able to turn away gay couples.

Anastasia Beaumont-Bott, the former head of David Cameron's gay campaign, accused the Conservatives of an "elaborately executed deception" on gay policy, while David Heathcote said he had also quit the party after two years and joined Labour because he felt let down.

Beaumont-Bott, 20, a member for three years, said the Tory party as a whole had not changed in its approach to gay people, with no mention of new rights in its manifesto and had "dithered" in its response to Grayling's comments.

"It feels like there is a different message for every audience. I think we should think about what Mr Cameron's Conservatives stand for ... A leopard does not change its spots," said Beaumont-Bott, who said she suffered homophobic bullying as a teenager.

"The voice of gay people will not go away."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/14/conservatives-duping-voters-gay-policy

Funko
15-04-2010, 07:59:26
Surely the Conservatives are to the BNP what the Conservatives are to homophobia as well? Few mainstream right-wing parties in Europe are as openly anti-immigration as the Tories.

(BTW, for the "Civ hones political skills" theory, you can chalk me up as well - I'm running for Stockholm city council in our elections this September.)

For the feminist party?

MDA
15-04-2010, 11:34:15
the pink pirate party

Funko
15-04-2010, 11:41:49
That's what I said.

MDA
15-04-2010, 11:44:56
That's what she said.

MOBIUS
22-04-2010, 10:39:02
Geez, the Tories can't help themselves: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-urged-to-sack-mp-who-questioned-age-of-consent-1950669.html

Funko
22-04-2010, 16:22:41
David Cameron's notes for tonight leaked:

http://daveschneider.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Cameron-notes.jpg

Nills Lagerbaak
23-04-2010, 07:46:15
"We want change but not in Euros" is actually a great joke

devilmunchkin
23-04-2010, 09:46:49
I can't believe you all are having a serious conversation.

MOBIUS
03-05-2010, 01:18:29
More Tory nuttiness... (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/conservatives-philippa-stroud-gay-cure)


Rising Tory star Philippa Stroud ran prayer sessions to 'cure' gay people

Conservative high-flyer Philippa Stroud founded a church that tried to 'cure' homosexuals by driving out their 'demons