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Funko
22-03-2010, 13:58:12
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/mar/22/leo-messi-barcelona-la-liga-spain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rK6vyUQ6kQ

The reason not to write off Argentina?

The second goal. :beer:

Greg W
22-03-2010, 14:32:25
All three goals were good in their own way. :beer:

I don't think you can ever completely write off the big countries of world football, even with a druggie coach. Cos there's often one or more players who can just take a game away with a touch or three of brilliance! And if football were predictable, betting agencies would be out of business. ;)

MOBIUS
24-03-2010, 16:16:38
He may be Messi, but he's got some neat finishing...:cute::bash::clueless:

Lazarus and the Gimp
24-03-2010, 17:38:10
Incidentally, it's nice to see Guardiola single-handedly harpooning the notion that the continental footballers can be snappy dressers.

Walrus Feeder
06-04-2010, 21:10:01
An outstanding performance tonight against Arsenal. Great chipped finish which you see few players actually do - he made it look easy and his 4th late on showed for quite a small player what great balance and strength he has. With all the comparison with Rooney over recent weeks it shouldn't be difficult to see who is the best player. Both have contributed vastly to their club's causes almost single handedly this season but in terms of individual skill, flair, quality on and off the ball, professsionalism and watchablility, Messi wins easily.

Would be great for England to knock out the Argies in the World Cup (especially with Maradona in charge) but with Messi capable of such wonders i would be scared every time he got the ball in England's half.

Funko
07-04-2010, 08:13:16
Agreed.

maroule
07-04-2010, 09:11:07
mais non!? :eek:

Mais si! :beer::bounce:

he does stuff I do in my "become a legend" on PES10...

King_Ghidra
07-04-2010, 10:14:50
He certainly is the finest player in the world, perhaps of this generation. You don't have to join the debates about whether he may even be the best player ever in order to understand what it means to see the question being asked.

The really interesting thing now will be the clash with Inter. Barca may have destroyed Arsenal, but Inter anaesthetised CSKA. It is one thing for messi and barca to run riot over a weakened arsenal team, how they will do against a far more muscular, patient and disciplined Inter team will be very interesting indeed. It was 0-0 and 2-0 in the group stages when inter were playing shit, but they have certainly stepped it up since then.

Funko
07-04-2010, 10:32:11
Some heart for Inter for the way Arsenal came back at the end of the first leg I'd think. Mourinho's great at putting teams out to equally frustrate and cause problems for teams that want to play open football.

I think it will have echos of the Chelsea vs Barcelona ties in 2005 and 2006, which were great ties and could have really gone either way.

King_Ghidra
07-04-2010, 11:18:05
yep a good comparison

maroule
07-04-2010, 13:52:11
It was 0-0 and 2-0 in the group stages when inter were playing shit, but they have certainly stepped it up since then.


true, but the reverse is also true, Barca was pretty average in the group stage, and they have been stellar lately; certainly in the first leg (where they should have scored 5), less so in the second leg, but where it proves the damage they can do even with a lower quality of interplay, if they're on a normal day in the converted chances/goals ratio.

I would hate to see Inter stiffle the offensive play of Barça, but then again, for us to truly admire Barca, they have to beat teams as Inter and Chelsea, and not only teams like Arsenal and Lyon

Fistandantilus
07-04-2010, 14:27:17
The only thing I know is Inter won't be as desperate as to have to field Silvestre against Messi :p

maroule
07-04-2010, 15:03:07
yeah, that was desperate
but even Vermalen, who has been reliably good in the EPL, was made to look very tentative yesterday night

Rosiky was really crap as well. They could have used Cesc (drugs & rock&roll)

maroule
21-04-2010, 09:21:16
apparently the match Inter - Barça was great (couldn't see it)
they're talking about 2 non awarded penalties (to Barça) and a 3rd goal from offside position, don't know if it's real or sour grapes

the return match should be great

Fistandantilus
21-04-2010, 10:05:26
Yeah Milito's goal was offside and the one on Dani Alves (I think?) was a penalty.
It's odd because at the start there were some dodgy decisions going against Inter (Milito called offside when wasn't and the yellow to Eto'o episode) but in the end ref's mistakes advantaged Inter imo.

Still I think we deserved the win and played a great game. To make Barça look lost and confused as they were for large parts of the match is quite an accompilishment.

Back!
21-04-2010, 10:13:28
those cheating italians must have paid the ref for sure
it's their habit to fix matches, after all

Milito's goal was offside, he was ahead of the ball and any defender, when Sneijder hit his wrong header which became an assist for Milito
It's true tho that on 0-0 Milito was wronlgy flagged offside when he was all alone in front of Valdes.
So the refs conceded the 3rd irregular goal as compensation for their offside mistake in 1st half


The was one penalty for sure
Sneijder had brushed with his shin Dani Alves calves
Sneijder had restrained his momentum so the touch was very light, not enough to justify a fall. Yet, it was a contact, so it was a penalty. Regardless Alves' pantomime feigning an imaginary knee injury.

Can't recall right now about an eventual 2nd penalty
There have been a few frantic moments in Inter's box, possibly they saw some close distance arm deflection

The correct result should have probably be 2-2
but as Mourinho said: Barça memory is poor, one year ago they benefited from the incredible stick treatment Ovrebo dealt out to Chelsea, now they're repaid with the same money

Nothing is lost tho, a 2-0 at home would be enough for Barça as they did in the group stage
But they're able to put in a 5-2 at Nou Camp too, if needed

maroule
22-04-2010, 08:52:23
obviously, since I watched it, the following match was crap
Lyon played with an handbrake and never looked like provoking an upset, even when they had one more player... booooring

Back!
22-04-2010, 09:01:02
when the italian ref sent out Ribery, I thought he was part of an anti-german conspiracy

but then he pulled out of his hat a non-existant second Toulalane booking (it wasn't even a foul) and set things straight again

and Robben could do his magic again

btw, for being your national team keeper, Lloris looked rather poor and shaky yesterday

King_Ghidra
22-04-2010, 09:24:25
well ribery deserved to be sent off. and robben's magic had a heavy dose of luck in it, though i like the fact that he likes to shoot and those kind of things do happen when you roll the dice.

but i can't disagree with maroule, lyon didn't even look the better team with the extra man. very poor from them.

Back!
22-04-2010, 10:35:56
robben's magic had a heavy dose of luck in it, though i like the fact that he likes to shoot and those kind of things do happen when you roll the dice.

albeit this is the less shiny of the three, I intended that's amazing how he did the *same* thing in first knockout in Florence and then in QF in Old Trafford.
Both those shots being also decider for qualification.

this was a bit helped by an uninfluent Muller chip, and Lloris hesitation
but it's not just a lucky roll of dice, this is getting three twelves in a row!
:D

(for the math-odds impaired:
1 shot = 1/(6*6) = 1/36 chance
3 shots = 1/36^3 = 1/46656 = 0.002%)

King_Ghidra
22-04-2010, 11:41:58
:lol:

I knew a mention of dice would be like some kind of catnip to you

Drekkus
22-04-2010, 12:05:11
Messi made quite a mess of that Inter defender's teeth

maroule
22-04-2010, 13:08:14
btw, for being your national team keeper, Lloris looked rather poor and shaky yesterday

I thought he was quite poor too, esp on some instances on corners
Did one very good reflex block on Robben, late second half


The supposedly best keepers in the world have been having difficult matches lately (I thought santi iker was pretty poor against Lyon for example, and Cech seems to have lost it)

the Toulalan card was a joke but you knew that was bound to happen at some point, too much nervosity in Lyon and a ref eager to compensate... Lyon can't blame the ref though, just their own inertia

seeing as Barça was pretty apathetic too (they apparently run a collective 10miles less than in the match against Arsenal - and that they also travelled for hours on a bus), I hope the outcome won't be affected by that (both Inter and Bayern will fly for the return leg, avoiding the grinding journey)

King_Ghidra
22-04-2010, 14:28:12
The supposedly best keepers in the world have been having difficult matches lately

totally agree. most of the ones who were considered elite have had their share of problems in the last season or so.

Funko
22-04-2010, 14:42:47
To some extent the nature of the job no matter how elite you are?

King_Ghidra
22-04-2010, 14:51:14
maybe, but i think of times when certain players like cech seemed completely flawless. van der sar too to a certain extent. they've both been knocked off their pedestal somewhat.

the only one of that group i wonder about who i haven't seen enough of lately is buffon. don't know if he's still considered untouchable.

Fistandantilus
22-04-2010, 15:01:49
Buffon had a helluva lot of injury problems as of late (back, knee) I wouldn't consider him untouchable by any means :)

Greg W
22-04-2010, 16:47:18
Out of curiosity, how does Schwarzer rank in terms of keepers? I heard some stats recently that he has the highest save percentage in the EPL.

I mean, I would be hard pressed to swap him for anyone, but then I am biased. :cute:

King_Ghidra
22-04-2010, 18:13:26
i think the consensus in epl terms is he is a very solid keeper.

King_Ghidra
22-04-2010, 21:54:11
and right on cue:

Mark Schwarzer made several vital saves as resilient Fulham held Hamburg to a goalless draw in the first leg of their Europa League semi-final in Germany

Greg W
23-04-2010, 02:47:45
And after spending 17 hours on a coach no less!

Back!
23-04-2010, 07:24:42
I mean, I would be hard pressed to swap him for anyone, but then I am biased. :cute:
You mean, he's better than Kalac???
;)

Greg W
23-04-2010, 10:43:01
He's retired. :p

maroule
28-04-2010, 11:38:37
seeing as Barça was pretty apathetic too (they apparently run a collective 10miles less than in the match against Arsenal - and that they also travelled for hours on a bus), I hope the outcome won't be affected by that (both Inter and Bayern will fly for the return leg, avoiding the grinding journey)

well, Lyon certainly can't blame the road trip, they were even worse yesterday night...

Fistandantilus
28-04-2010, 12:44:48
You managed the amazing feat of making Bayern look good, how sad is that.

Back!
28-04-2010, 13:17:34
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/8649138.stm

maroule
28-04-2010, 16:20:35
I thought 3 games was indeed too harsh

what an amazing crap year for Ribery, I think Domenech sliped his mojo in his backpocket, unoticed

King_Ghidra
28-04-2010, 19:18:14
This is some bullshit right now. Refereeing is killing football for me.

novacane
28-04-2010, 20:01:05
Absolutely. Top level football is riddled with this rubbish. The players have a massive case to answer also. But I guess this is what happens when the stakes are getting higher all the time. I'd like to see FIFA crack down on simulation when they decide on their hot topics in the lead up to the World Cup. I'm happy to see a player booked for any kind of overreaction. I don't even care if players are booked incorrectly in some cases because it would then act as a bigger deterrant.

King_Ghidra
28-04-2010, 20:07:45
Indeed the players are absolutely complicit, i shouldn't place all the blame on the referee.

The shot of Busquets interrupting his writhing agony to glance hopefully at the referee's reaction will live long in the minds of anyone who finds this kind of thing embarrassing and sad for football.

I find it hard to stomach that the sport has a place for the 4th referee, a man whose job is nothing more than to shout at coaches who are six inches outside their technical areas, but can't find room for any kind of more sophisticated officiating or monitoring of the actual match.

Unsurprisingly since the red card the whole game has been absolutely dire.

novacane
28-04-2010, 20:42:37
A shame the game became so sterile but exactly what Barca deserve. A justified and admirable response from Inter. Glad they saw it through. God bless Jose.

Can't agree more about the 4th official.

Back!
29-04-2010, 07:05:40
The shot of Busquets interrupting his writhing agony to glance hopefully at the referee's reaction will live long in the minds of anyone who finds this kind of thing embarrassing and sad for football.

Busqum Booshamets Bumsuqets

imho far worse than Rivaldo, and than Dida in Glasgow
____

a padded helmet does't grant you a holiness patent, but yelling "get up quick" to a player with a head injury is no great display of fair play and sportmnanship either

Messi already had knocked one of Maicon's teeth off in S.Siro.
I'd like to see for instance if Messi would have had the face of yelling the same to Chech after hitting him on the head

maroule
29-04-2010, 07:28:24
Agree with most of it, and yes, Busquets made a huge ass of himself. Considering the furore with Henry, I assume he will be impaled in the public square.

Mose, you seem a bit myopic here; Lucio constant agony was pretty shameful, and so was Maicon at times, and so was sneidjer who protested like crazy on each legitimate challenge, etc. All teams do it, absolutely all of them (not all players, mind you), so it's useless to list wrongs and take a high moral stance.

My general point is that players are not complicit, they are actively trying to fool the ref, all the bloody time! It's like Madoff saying the SEC was complicit (for the record, they were not, they were just dumb, unqualified and lazy)

maroule
29-04-2010, 07:35:18
The conclusion of the Guardian is funny "This was a victory for a rearguard tuned to near-perfection: a virtuoso demonstration of the Italian defensive arts, without a single Italian on the field." I hadn't even noticed!

Barça will be eating their own balls with the Ibra-Etoo swap; Ibra never looked more ineffectual, and obviously Etoo still has 2 or 3 excellent years in front of him. They've made the swap too early, Ibra still needs to mature. He's looking more and more like Berbatov, superbly skilled, but suspect temperament and erratic scoring flow.

maroule
29-04-2010, 07:38:07
[QUOTE=maroule;1011846]Considering the furore with Henry, I assume he will be impaled in the public square.
QUOTE]

just to clarify, I was being ironical. In retrospect, I believe the english press furore was so extreme/hypocritical only because it was a nice narrative of 1/ comiserating with the irish (who read their papers) and 2/ burning a former idol (always a success).

as few people said it at the times, the commentors who raged against Henry now have an obligation to rage equally hard against any wrong doing, a la Busquets, which obviously they won't do.

maroule
29-04-2010, 07:38:50
Considering the furore with Henry, I assume he will be impaled in the public square.



just to clarify, I was being ironical. In retrospect, I believe the english press furore was so extreme/hypocritical only because it was a nice narrative of 1/ comiserating with the irish (who read their papers) and 2/ burning a former idol (always a success).

as few people said it at the times, the commentors who raged against Henry now have an obligation to rage equally hard against any wrong doing, a la Busquets, which obviously they won't do.

Back!
29-04-2010, 08:04:19
Who's MoSe?

If you read the beginning of my Germany-Italy Uefa Ranking thread, you'd see that I'm no fan of Italy, and least of all of Inter.
I hope that finally Germany takes 3rd place in Uefa Country Ranking, so we'll be forced to endure one less cheating diving feigning whining italian team already in 2011/12 CL

I have the greatest admiration for the dedication of the likes of Zanetti, Cambiasso, D.Milito, Eto'o
But I always thought Lucio and Sneijder were a bit on the mental side.
And T.Motta had some mental issues against Barça too, he began with provocative decalarations before the match and went on with his attitude on the pitch.

I wasn't making a case of bad catalans vs good italians (meh), you're making the wrong case with me.
I scoff at the catalan unsportmanship as a standalone case. Don't care and don't need to compare it to anything else

___

The problem is tho I thought Messi was the football Messi-ah, and that Barça was the paradigm of beautiful play and the herald of what team football should be.
Whence my disappointment is even greater.

In this case, the guilt of one cast a shwdow on the morality of his group.
If I don't see Bumsuqets life-banned from any organised sporting activity for unsportmanship, I'll never side for the Cheating Catalans again

BTW, you could also consider that:
- Uefa sent Ovrebo in last year semifinal to help Barça get past Chelsea, and Ovrebo succeeded
- Uefa sent De Bleeckere in this year semifinal to help Barça get past Inter. The belgian ref had almost accomplished his mission (not just with the red card). But then he got ashamed of himself, and stopped play for a non-existant handball (it was from very close distance, and Keita had his arm "embedded" is his belly, totally accidental and involuntary) just before the 2nd goal which would had (undeservedly) sent italians home

___

and Standard & Poors downgraded Spain rating too
take that
:p

Back!
29-04-2010, 08:30:40
well, Lyon certainly can't blame the road trip, they were even worse yesterday night...

but their girls succeeded where the men's side failed!

http://www.uefa.com/womenschampionsleague/matches/season=2010/round=2000061/match=2001501/report/index.html

Go Lionesses!
:D

King_Ghidra
29-04-2010, 10:06:04
Well let's see now if Bayern have enough political clout to win Ribery back for the final...

Back!
29-04-2010, 11:14:53
btw, lovely play by play on BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8647801.stm

I can hardly find any comment to argue with

2017 might be the save of the year imho

I don't see trace tho of Ibra's foul in 1st half which deserved a yellow far more than 1st Motta's one did
was that 2019 play?

___________

reports about italian press hint and sound like sorta "Inter writes history"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/apr/29/inter-champions-league-barcelona
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=778953&sec=uefachampionsleague&cc=5739

well, if I'm not mistaken, they only got into a final, and it's about 40 years they last did the same
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Cup_and_Champions_League_finals
no, sorry, it's 38
:p

IIRC Inter fans scoff at AC rivals when they list their (recent) past success, rebutting "let's talk about our present domination"
:rolleyes:

now claiming they "made history" sounds like a big huge own-goal
:D

___

disclaimer:
I hadn't read the guardian press report yet, before starting my "Camp Mou" thread
:D

Back!
29-04-2010, 11:33:01
let's count club appearances (leave alone victories) in the 37 finals which took place in between last two Inter ones
(1972 lost v Ajax, and this May 22 v Bayern)

8 AC Milan
7 Liverpool, Bayern, Juventus
5 Barça
4 Real M., Ajax
3 ManU
2 Benfica, Porto, Nott.Forest, OM, Steaua, Hamburg, Valencia

soooo....
great praise to Mou and Internazionale, but "history" is exactly the one word they should be carefully avoiding
:D

Back!
29-04-2010, 11:44:48
and for a better "historical" perspective, let's split and summarize final appearances by decade

played(won)

2001-10 1991-2k 1981-90 1971-80 1961-70 1956-60
Milan 3(2) 3(1) 2(2) 2(2) 1(-)
Barça 2(2) 2(1) 1(-) 1(-)
Real 2(2) 1(1) 1(-) 3(1) 5(5)
Bayern 2(1*) 1(-) 2(-) 3(3)
ManU 2(1) 1(1) 1(1)
Livpool 2(1) 3(2) 2(2)
Porto 1(1) 1(1)
Inter 1(*) 1(-) 3(2)
Juve 1(-) 3(1) 2(1) 1(-)
Valncia 1(-) 1(-)
Ajax 2(1) 3(3) 1(-)
OM 2(1)
Steaua 2(1)
Benfica 2(-) 5(2)
HSV 1(1) 1(-)
N.Forst 2(2)
Celtic 2(1)
Reims 2(-)


check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Cup_and_Champions_League_records_and_stat istics#By_club
for one-off remainders

Fistandantilus
29-04-2010, 12:39:58
Let's talk about our present domination.

Back!
29-04-2010, 12:43:00
Go Hamburgers!
Go Bavarians!

:beer:

maroule
29-04-2010, 13:13:50
all right Back, I did think you were MoSe, with your obsession with statistics and persecution syndrom, my bad

Bayern appeal; don't see how it could succeed, they bring nothing new to the table, even the way they phrased their argument is moronic. My take; it's a way to tell Franckie "sign your new contact with us, we love you (see, we didn't even makle a fuss when you screwed an underaged hooker)"

Back!
29-04-2010, 14:13:31
persecution syndrom

I don't understand what you talkin about

:p

Back!
29-04-2010, 14:16:38
and as Mou said, mine for stats is no obsession:

it's a dream!

:D

King_Ghidra
29-04-2010, 14:33:49
Milan's really great statistical achievement of note is that they have won 11 of the 13 semifinals they have been in. Benfica at 7 of 8 have just as good a record.

Liverpool have won 7 of 9, and most of the other teams with multiple sf appearances, 'the usual suspects' are at somewhere between 50-75%.

Chelsea meanwhile, 1 of 5...

Back!
07-05-2010, 12:44:28
persecution syndrom

I don't understand what you talkin about

:p


GO TELL'EM BLOODY MACARONI, ULI !!!!

There Are Too Many Italians In UEFA (http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/221/champions-league/2010/05/07/1913166/bayern-munichs-uli-hoeness-there-are-too-many-italians-in)

Uli Hoeneß lästert über Der Fall Ribery (http://www.welt.de/sport/fussball/article7516446/Uli-Hoeness-laestert-ueber-zu-viele-Italiener-in-der-Uefa.html)


ps:
this is to advise our resident cheese-eating surrender monkey (or was it frog?) to carefully review all his sources before deciding who's he addressing his slandering to
:p ;) :p