PDA

View Full Version : ManU get an average extra 66 seconds a game when not winning...


Funko
22-09-2009, 09:27:59
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/sep/22/manchester-united-goals-stoppage-time

After the controversy over Michael Owen's winning goal in Sunday's Manchester derby, the Guardian has looked at all of United's league matches at Old Trafford since the start of the 2006-07 season and discovered that, on average, there has been over a minute extra added by referees when United do not have the lead after 90 minutes, compared to when they are in front. In 48 games when United were ahead, the average amount of stoppage time was 191.35 seconds. In 12 matches when United were drawing or losing there was an average of 257.17sec.

Actual data FTW.

King_Ghidra
22-09-2009, 09:57:48
is that the implied causation it thinks it is though?

surely that extra-extra-time in the man u not-winning scenario is likely to be explained by teams attempting to waste time to preserve the draw or lead, thus causing the ref to add extra

when man u have the lead and the opposition have given up, a few passes around the back four, the ball in play all the time and the game quickly over.

Fistandantilus
22-09-2009, 10:45:08
If that's the cause, KG, other bigs should experience the same thing.
It would be interesting to see such data.

Besides, as much as a time-wasting cheating scum italians are I don't remember refs adding extra-extra-time that much (unless there is a sub or something).
I certainly remember several occasions in which the game has been stopped with a corner to be taken or such because the added time was over just by a few sec.

King_Ghidra
22-09-2009, 11:12:40
undoubtedly

what you need is data for all teams in similar positions, not just the biggies.

i really ask the question because when funko says 'actual data FTW' i think he should be careful he is not entering the realm of 'lies, damned lies and statistics'

King_Ghidra
22-09-2009, 11:36:00
btw i only actually just read the article and even on the superficial stats provided, man u rank beneath arsenal, liverpool and chelsea on this front. chelsea received 24 secs of injury time longer on avg.

Funko
22-09-2009, 11:57:02
It is true that I might have entered the realm of trolling with the FTW bit of this thread. But still interesting.

Funko
22-09-2009, 11:58:14
Another variable, ref is supposed to add 30 seconds for each subsitution. Do teams make more subs when winning/drawing than when losing or fewer. Do ManU make more changes when losing/drawing or fewer?

Debaser
22-09-2009, 12:29:55
Maybe slightly off the point, but I'd always been under the impression that once the 2/3/4 minute extra time board had been held up then that was the amount of extra time to be played regardless of what happened during that time (except in extraordinary circumstances). Is this not the case anymore? Was it ever the case?

Funko
22-09-2009, 12:32:22
It was never the case. It's always "the fourth official has indicated a minimum of x mins", any stoppages within that get added too.

Greg W
22-09-2009, 12:55:31
Yeah, stoppage time is exactly that, time added for stoppages during the game. At the end of the first half and then full time, they're supposed to make up for stoppages after the 45 mins is up - thus stoppage time. If there's stoppages during stoppage time, then that's added as well. There was an interesting point made by the commentators of the match (my coverage anyway) that some managers still seem to think that they can "waste" time by making changes late in a match or during stoppage time, when in fact it can be the opposite at times and there was conjecture that Fergie made a sub exactly to get that extra time added on by making the sub quickly.

That was an awesome match, regardless of whether a few extra seconds were added or not. :beer:

Funko
22-09-2009, 15:07:44
That's a very longwinded way of saying what I said.

Fistandantilus
22-09-2009, 16:14:29
They should just use effective time played and get rid with this madness.

And a free kick against if they don't cross the half in 15 seconds from achieving possession. Fuckers.

Funko
22-09-2009, 16:19:19
They don't even enforce the goalkeeper only holding the ball for 6 seconds rule.

Greg W
22-09-2009, 17:00:37
That's a very longwinded way of saying what I said.Damned straight! :beer:

*End Is Forever*
22-09-2009, 17:35:34
There were five goals and four substitutions in the second half on Sunday. That's four-and-a-half minutes of stoppage time (as per the rules) even if the referee didn't stop his watch once.

Cheshire Cat
23-09-2009, 07:19:54
ManU get an average extra 66 seconds a game when not winning...
The Devils should get 666

Funko
23-09-2009, 07:51:51
There were five goals and four substitutions in the second half on Sunday. That's four-and-a-half minutes of stoppage time (as per the rules) even if the referee didn't stop his watch once.

I'm sorry but are you really saying that if you count the time added on for the goal that was scored after 5mins 30secs it is an argument for there being a reason for there being time allowed to score it? :confused:

Fistandantilus
23-09-2009, 09:36:08
:lol:

*End Is Forever*
23-09-2009, 11:43:52
I'm sorry but are you really saying that if you count the time added on for the goal that was scored after 5mins 30secs it is an argument for there being a reason for there being time allowed to score it? :confused:

Of course not. Hughes queried afterwards why there were seven minutes of injury time. Clearly had there not been two goals and one substitution between the board going up showing a minimum of four minutes then the clock would not have run to 97.

Bellamy scored almost right on the the 90 minutes, so clearly the 4 minutes would have already been communicated to the fourth official. So that's a minimum of 4m30s. There was a substitution in stoppage time as well so we're already up to a minimum of 5 minutes.

Of course the "minimum" means that the original stoppage time could have been anything between 4m00s and 4m59s, which means that Owen's goal was likely to have been perfectly within time even assuming that the referee only added the minimum of 30s for Bellamy's goal even though (by Hughes' own admission) the celebrations for the equaliser ran to longer than 30s.

Funko
23-09-2009, 11:47:47
Well we're not Mark Hughes. The seven minutes is kind of irrelevant, they played a few seconds after restarting after the last goal, and you do have to restart.

As a neutral I assumed he'd be blowing shortly after 5 mins.

And obviously City should have defended better, throughout the game, but for however much added time there was, but it did seem like the ref was a bit generous with added time in this case.

MOBIUS
24-09-2009, 11:18:18
On MotD they timed all the stoppages and decided that the goal was scored one second after the game should have officially finished.

I demand a replay!