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*End Is Forever*
27-08-2009, 13:32:01
...taking place this evening

Pot one

Barcelona
CHELSEA
LIVERPOOL
MANCHESTER UNITED
AC Milan
ARSENAL
Sevilla
Bayern Munich


Pot Two

Lyon
Inter Milan
Real Madrid
CSKA Moscow
Porto
AZ Alkmaar
Juventus
RANGERS


Pot Three

Olympiakos
Marseille
Dinamo Kiev
Stuttgart
Fiorentina
Atletico Madrid
Bordeaux
Besiktas


Pot Four

Wolfsburg
Standard Liege
Maccabi Haifa
FC Zurich
Rubin Kazan
Unirea Urziceni
APOEL Nicosia
Debrecen

Is it just me or does this draw seem weaker than usual? Especially Pot 4. I don't see any dangerous floaters although trips to Israel and Eastern Europe probably aren't top of anyone's wish list...

King_Ghidra
27-08-2009, 15:26:17
pot 4 does look weak. but not unusually so for this stage.

imagine the following 'group of death':

Some poor bastard from Pot A
Real Madrid
Bordeaux
Wolfsburg

Ouch.

Easiest would be i guess:

Lucky bastard in Pot A
Porto/Alkmaar
Olympiakos/Kiev/Besiktas
Anyone except Wolfsburg

Fistandantilus
27-08-2009, 15:34:50
Group stage has always been a bit of a farce imho. I don't expect surprises.

Funko
27-08-2009, 15:52:21
Yeah, doesn't seem worse than last year. Second group stage FTW.

I think it just means the big team favouring seeding is working correctly.

*End Is Forever*
27-08-2009, 18:33:23
Group A

Bayern Munich
Juventus
Bordeaux
Maccabi Haifa

Group B

MANCHESTER UNITED
CSKA Moscow
Besiktas
Wolfsburg

Group C

AC Milan
Real Madrid
Marseille
FC Zurich

Group D

CHELSEA
Porto
Atletico Madrid
APOEL Nicosia

Group E

LIVERPOOL
Lyon
Fiorentina
Debrecen

Group F

Barcelona
Inter Milan
Dinamo Kiev
Rubin Kazan

Group G

Sevilla
RANGERS
Stuttgart
Unirea Urziceni

Group H

ARSENAL
AZ Alkmaar
Olympiakos
Standard Liege

*End Is Forever*
27-08-2009, 18:33:55
Out of interest, how the hell did Sevilla end up in the top pot...?

Scabrous Birdseed
27-08-2009, 18:56:16
Two Uefa cups and one Copa Del Rey in the past four years probably has something to do with it.

*End Is Forever*
27-08-2009, 19:18:38
I'm not sure beating all the sides that weren't good enough to quality for the last 16 of the Champions' League is worth a place in Pot 1.

Greg W
28-08-2009, 01:51:52
2 Cl last 8(?) appearances out of the last two, including one last 4? Perhaps more, I don't follow the Arse all that much. Would be my guess though, from memory they've done extremely well the last few years...

King_Ghidra
28-08-2009, 10:39:51
you seem to be answering a question no one has asked, greg

Fistandantilus
28-08-2009, 11:11:09
:lol:

Greg W
28-08-2009, 12:54:39
Nevermind me, was thinking Arsenal for some bizarre reason.

Funko
18-12-2009, 12:58:28
Knockouts

Internazionale v Chelsea
Lyon v Real Madrid
Milan v Manchester United
Olympiakos v Bordeaux
FC Porto v Arsenal
CSKA Moscow v Sevilla
Stuttgart v Barcelona
Bayern Munich v Fiorentina

Jose to Chelsea and Becks to ManU?

This is where it starts to get interesting.

King_Ghidra
18-12-2009, 14:33:18
yep the media must be weeing themselves with delight

King_Ghidra
18-12-2009, 14:33:55
Also, a few 'weak' teams will be making it to the latter stages, which will make it interesting

Funko
18-12-2009, 15:01:13
Although probably only 2/8 that aren't traditional quarterfinalists.

maroule
18-12-2009, 15:45:17
on the fly, I'd pick


Chelsea
Real Madrid
Manchester United
Bordeaux
Arsenal
Sevilla
Barcelona
Bayern Munich (the only one where I'm in doubt actually, all the others seem fairly clear cut)

King_Ghidra
18-12-2009, 16:31:33
i wouldn't disagree with that at all

Funko
18-12-2009, 16:36:12
*3

Greg W
17-03-2010, 08:07:56
on the fly, I'd pick

Chelsea :o
Real Madrid :o
Manchester United :bounce:
Arsenal :bounce:
Sevilla :o
Bayern Munich (the only one where I'm in doubt actually, all the others seem fairly clear cut) :bounce:

Barcelona :confused:
Bordeaux :confused:
3 out of 6 with two to go.

King_Ghidra
17-03-2010, 08:30:44
inter looked uncharacteristically assured for this competition. they've got me all excited about progressing further.

as for that madrid abomination, wow. this lyon team is probably the worst one in the last five or six years. in fact it's the first time they've been here not as french champions iirc.

and sevilla royally failed last night too with everything in their favour. very surprising.

maroule
17-03-2010, 08:44:21
Barcelona and Bordeaux are still reasonnable bets but yes, the final count is pretty bad, 3 wrong out of 8 is quite bad

Funko
17-03-2010, 10:07:21
inter looked uncharacteristically assured for this competition. they've got me all excited about progressing further.

Totally. They were very impressive.

Back!
17-03-2010, 12:22:05
and 4 group winners out, so far

Greg W
18-03-2010, 00:51:52
Well, no surprises in the last 2 matches at least. And now no restrictions on who can get drawn against who, so depending on the draw we could see some weaker teams go through (again) and some stronger teams drawn against each other (again again).

maroule
18-03-2010, 09:04:26
7 clubs are praying to get CSKA...

Bordeaux is also pretty fragile at the moment and Lyon had probably maxed out with its match against Real, so easier preys... probably the only way to see a french team in the semi would be to draw them together (which would be boring)

I'm still slightly unconvinced by inter, I think they also maxed out against chelsea because of the whole mourinho context (namely chelsea soiling their pants), they'd probably shit bricks against the two favorites (man and barça)... they'd probably beat arsenal though, the Special One has dark juju magic against arsene

Funko
18-03-2010, 09:22:54
He has a pretty good record against Fergie too, and not just with Chelsea. See Porto 2004.

Fistandantilus
18-03-2010, 09:56:03
This year CL is a joke, look at how many french teams are still there :rolleyes:

Funko
18-03-2010, 09:58:04
I know, and half as many English teams as normal.

maroule
18-03-2010, 10:13:49
This year CL is a joke, look at how many french teams are still there :rolleyes:

don't worry, it won't last

Funko
18-03-2010, 10:33:33
The commentators on the Chelsea Inter game said that if Inter hadn't got through Italy would have lost a CL place to Germany, is that true?

MoSe?

Fistandantilus
18-03-2010, 11:22:02
It's just delayed a year, in 2011 we will sure lose a spot anyway cause it's when 05/06 reusuts get dropped and those were heavily in favour of Italy.

As of now we are still barely ahead as you can see here (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2010.html) but...
if Juve loses against Fulham and Bremen, Hamburg and Wolfsburg all win Germany will surpass Italy tonight anyway :D

Back!
18-03-2010, 11:32:57
according to mr_B, MoSe has died
:confused:


dunno about Italy in detail, but I have this link

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2010.html


Let me see...

Germany catched up almost a point this season so far
they still need almost two more

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/calc.html
Inter got 2 points for the win and 1 bonus for qualifying, so 3 divided by 7 italian clubs
3/7 =0.429

Had it got out, Italy would have been left with 1.5 coeff lead and only Juve to improve their score (but don't count out our Cottagers yet!)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/ccoef2010.html

Much depends on how many German teams will qualify this evening in EL, they all 3 start ahead in score

I think Germans still need a dozen points more than macaronis to push them down
Passing a round yields from 3 to 5
Say:
Juve wins at Craven (2+1p), but then both crash out in QF without a point
HSV gets thru by losing 0-1 in Brussel earning 1 qualif point
W & W unexpectedly crash at home tonite
Bayern and Hamburg get to semis with two wins each (5p), but then get eliminated on goal diff (2p)
this would be enough to get rid of one of those pesky whiners, effective UCL 2011-2012

Hopefully more serious german teams will advance, having Wolfsburg & Werder home advantage and first leg 1-1 away
It will all be much clearer tomorrow, but if overall krauts get 2-3 more teams to semis than italians, it could be done

If not that, we'll just have to wait one year
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2011.html
when the cheaters will be hugely set back by the loss of the 5 coeff points advantage from 05/06, their last lucky season

___
edit: x-post
I'm not as quick
:)

Funko
19-03-2010, 11:22:29
Internazionale v CSKA Moscow
Arsenal v Barcelona
Bayern Munich v Manchester United
Lyon v Bordeaux

Semis

Inter or CSKA Moscow v Arsenal or Barcelona
Bayern or Manchester United v Bordeaux or Lyon

Suralex will be happy with that one!

Funko
19-03-2010, 11:23:17
Some good looking matches there. And a French Semi-Finalist!

Back!
19-03-2010, 12:01:09
repeat of previous year final would be a first for champions league, you'll have to check for pre-93

of course we had a repeat, but non B2B

Funko
19-03-2010, 12:04:53
Wikipedia format of winners makes that easy to check.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Cup_and_UEFA_Champions_League_win ners

Nope, never happened.

maroule
19-03-2010, 13:33:25
Lyon v Bordeaux (the closest one to call, Bordeau has been clearly superior for the last 18 months, but i think Lyon will just nudge through thanks to their much higher experience of the competition

Bayern Munich v Manchester United

Arsenal v Barcelona

Internazionale v CSKA Moscow

Funko
19-03-2010, 14:49:18
Yeah, I think they all appear a bit one sided which is a shame. Does that mean there's more potential for exciting upsets?

I think it really does look like a decent chance of a repeat of last years final (and result)

Greg W
19-03-2010, 15:08:50
Yeah, but then again, Real Madrid, Chelsea and Sevilla all looked like certainties to go through in the previous round. I want to see Arsenal v Barca, especially if Fabregas can stay fit, though it's a massive shame that RvP now looks like not being fit until May at the earliest.