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MOBIUS
13-01-2009, 20:50:59
Church clinic 'destroyed in Israeli missile strike' (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2009/01/13/church-clinic-destroyed-in-israeli-missile-strike-91466-22683740/)

Man, those Israelis are harsh - condemning the Palestinians to bad teeth...:(

Still, at least they were nice and gave the clinic staff a phone call warning them of the attack 15 mins before flattening the place with missiles.

Oerdin
14-01-2009, 00:02:08
I'd like to see a video. The videos of secondary explosions in mosques and schools has been great. "The evil Zionists are destroying our mosques and school but we had no weapons there!" Which would explain the massive secondary explosions seen on film, how?

Oerdin
14-01-2009, 00:04:09
Oh, or the UN school last week where Hamas cried up and down that they hadn't fired from it, the UN paid Palestinian teachers declared no one had fired from the school, but then the AP interviewed people in the neighborhood and loads of them all admitted that Hamas was firing mortars from the school hoping to use the kids as human shields. It's all Israeli's fault though... Nothing to see here.

Greg W
14-01-2009, 00:22:22
There's always two sides to every story. And somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

MOBIUS
14-01-2009, 00:38:31
Indeed

Israeli dead = 13
Palestinian dead = 900+

Two sides to every story...:rolleyes:

MOBIUS
14-01-2009, 00:42:16
Incidentally, more Israelis have been killed and wounded as a result of friendly fire than have been killed in the latest round of rocket fire Israel used as its pretext for war...

Imagine that: Israeli citizens are at more risk from their own army than they are from Hamas rockets!:eek:

Oerdin
14-01-2009, 03:05:25
That's because every Israeli home now has a basement with in improvised bomb shelter. It sounds like you're just angry that not enough Jews are dying because it sure isn't from lack of Hamas trying. Have you ever noticed that 7:45am is the period of most active Hamas rocket fire? Why is that? Simple because that's when the streets are full of Jewish children trying to go to school so Hamas intensifies fire to try to murder children.

Greg W
15-01-2009, 01:15:33
Originally posted by MOBIUS
Indeed

Israeli dead = 13
Palestinian dead = 900+

Two sides to every story...:rolleyes: Yes, cos casualty figures tells the ENTIRE story. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Seriously, you're more one eyed than Oerdin is...

MOBIUS
15-01-2009, 02:02:54
You're right, perhaps Hamas wouldn't have launched the rockets if Israel hadn't broken the ceasefire in the first place with its assassination policy.

Perhaps Hamas wouldn't have launched the rockets if Israel had kept to its side of the ceasefire bargain by lowering a blockade whose only effect was to collectively punish all of Gaza.

No wonder the entire world (with moderate Jews at the forefront!!!) is turning against Israel as we speak - and you call ME one eyed...!?

If that is the case, then you and Oerdin are totally blind!:(

notyoueither
15-01-2009, 05:44:37
Originally posted by MOBIUS
Indeed

Israeli dead = 13
Palestinian dead = 900+

Two sides to every story...:rolleyes:

The Israelis are pretty good at this thing, and the Palestinians suck when it comes to people who shoot back?

MOBIUS
15-01-2009, 15:10:08
Update: After deliberately targeting Welsh medical equipment, Israel has declared war on the UN.

Funko
15-01-2009, 15:14:10
It has issued a declaration of war on the UN?

MOBIUS
15-01-2009, 15:28:25
Unofficially. They hit the UN headquarters in Gaza with at least precision 5 strikes.

MOBIUS
15-01-2009, 15:30:23
You'd think Israel doesn't like the UN, considering how often they destroy UN buildings and kill and injure UN personnel

Funko
15-01-2009, 15:37:55
The UN should stop putting it's people in these dangerous places then maybe it wouldn't happen.

Oerdin
15-01-2009, 17:48:55
Originally posted by MOBIUS
You're right, perhaps Hamas wouldn't have launched the rockets if Israel hadn't broken the ceasefire in the first place with its assassination policy.

What a lame talking point. You do realize that Hamas canceled the cease fire before that, right? :sleep:

MOBIUS
15-01-2009, 20:13:43
Er no, the assassination in question occurred DURING the ceasefire that Hamas was upholding at the time.

Don't take my word for it, take Rabbi Michael Lerner's (he's Jewish) word for it: It breaks my heart to see Israel's stupidity (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5446519.ece)

BTW, what is your position on the Israeli strikes on the UN headquarters in Gaza - with WP rounds no less...?

MDA
15-01-2009, 20:27:42
I'm still pissed about them sinking one of our naval vessels.

Most of the moderates on both sides seem to have gotten the hell out if they had the means. Somtimes it seems like all that's left is the destitute sandwiched between the fanatics.

Oerdin
16-01-2009, 00:42:17
That's just not right. The 6 month cease-fire signed on June 19 of this year expired and Hamas declared that it would not be extended.

n other words, the six-month truce that Israel and Hamas, the militant Palestinian leaders of Gaza, agreed to on June 19 is over. On Friday, Hamas officially declared in a statement that the ceasefire had expired, saying the truce would not be renewed because Israel was failing to fulfill its “fundamental conditions and obligations.” The end of the truce was greeted by relative calm, with only a scattering of rocket attacks and no major Israeli military activity. Officials and analysts on both sides say that things are likely to deteriorate further in the short term, but that both sides need the truce, so they will probably grope their way back to it. The question is how soon and after how much suffering.

Israel and Hamas accuse each other of bad faith and of violations of the Egyptian-mediated accord, and each side has a point. Rockets from Gaza never stopped entirely during the truce, and Israel never allowed a major renewed flow of goods into Gaza, crippling its economy. This is at least partly because the agreement had no mutually agreed text or enforcement mechanism; neither side wanted to grant the legitimacy to the other that such a document would imply.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/20/world/middleeast/20gaza.html

Oerdin
16-01-2009, 00:50:51
Oh, BTW this UN compound, just like the UN school, was being used as a fire base by Hamas terrorists. Under the Geneva Convention protected places only remain protected if they are not used militarially. Sadly, Hamas has used just about every protected place to fire (UN buildings, schools, hospitals, mosques) from and under the laws of war it is 100% legal to fire back once you receive fire.

Listening to Mobius mash his teeth over this sounds like a broken record. He mumbles a half truth ("Israel fired on a UN building") only to find out the reason was the UN didn't stop Hamas terrorists from running all over the building and firing from the building. Israel doesn't break a single law by returning fire where as Hamas commits a war crime (using protected sites as military sites) every time they fire from these buildings.

MOBIUS
16-01-2009, 01:00:55
Did you even read the Times article I linked to? No, of course not, otherwise you'd realise that your own quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
"...because Israel was failing to fulfill its �fundamental conditions and obligations.�"

Corroborates what he said about the assassinations and not lowering the blockade. Seems pretty clear to me, Oerdin, that those actions fall into the 'failing to fulfill its �fundamental conditions and obligations'.:rolleyes:

Oerdin
16-01-2009, 01:03:43
No, that's just Hamas trying to come up with excuses to continue the Jihad. They've always done this over and over again. When they're losing they'll agree to a cease fire just long enough to rearm then they cancel the cease fire and go for another round. They always use the same vacant words every time.

MOBIUS
16-01-2009, 01:26:20
Originally posted by Oerdin Oh, BTW this UN compound, just like the UN school, was being used as a fire base by Hamas terrorists. Under the Geneva Convention protected places only remain protected if they are not used militarially. Sadly, Hamas has used just about every protected place to fire (UN buildings, schools, hospitals, mosques) from and under the laws of war it is 100% legal to fire back once you receive fire.

Firstly, the UN itself utterly refutes Israel's claim that Hamas were firing from the building - but then, Israel also claims it is not using WP munitions when overwhelming evidence to the contrary proves otherwise.

Secondly, when is it ever 100% legal to fire on hospitals and UN buildings even when being fired on when those buildings are filled with civilians?. Show me exactly where it says that.

Listening to Mobius mash his teeth over this sounds like a broken record. He mumbles a half truth ("Israel fired on a UN building") only to find out the reason was the UN didn't stop Hamas terrorists from running all over the building and firing from the building. Israel doesn't break a single law by returning fire where as Hamas commits a war crime (using protected sites as military sites) every time they fire from these buildings.

Phosphorus denial outweighed by evidence (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5526955.ece)

War in Gaza: UN aid compound set alight ‘by phosphorus shells’ (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5526929.ece)

No wonder Israel is desperate to keep the World's journalists outside of Gaza...:hmm:

MOBIUS
16-01-2009, 01:36:40
Originally posted by Oerdin
No, that's just Hamas trying to come up with excuses to continue the Jihad. They've always done this over and over again. When they're losing they'll agree to a cease fire just long enough to rearm then they cancel the cease fire and go for another round. They always use the same vacant words every time.

Jeez, no wonder Siro keeps spewing out his lies on Poly all the time - some sucker actually believes them!?:rolleyes:

Obviously you ignored my An Unexpected Victim of the Gaza Conflict (http://counterglow.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42060&perpage=50&pagenumber=1) links.

Israel seems to think it can get away with their assassination policy without any repercussions whatsoever and then cries foul when Palestinians retaliate with suicide bombers and recently rockets.

HERE (AGAIN COS OERDIN MISSED IT THE FIRST TIME AROUND!!!) (http://www.counterpunch.org/niva08272003.html) :)

But a nearly certain predictor for a suicide bombing is when Israel assassinates a senior commander or political leader of a militant group, especially when it does so during or in the negotiations for a truce by these groups on attacks on Israelis. Examples from the past few years include:

* Israel's assassination of the two leading Hamas commanders in Nablus on July 31 2001 that put an end to a nearly two-month Hamas cease-fire on Israeli civilians, leading to the August 9 Hamas suicide bombing in a Jerusalem Sbarro pizzeria.

* Israel's assassination of the senior Hamas militant Mahmud Abu Hanoud on November 23, 2001 while Hamas was upholding an agreement with Arafat not to attack targets inside of Israel following the September 11 terrorist attacks on the US, leading to the Jerusalem and Haifa Hamas suicide bombings on December 1 and 2.

* Israel's assassination of leading Fatah militant Raed Karmi on January 14, 2002 during a cease-fire declared by all the militant groups in late December, leading to the Fatah linked Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade first suicide bombing on January 27.

* Israel's July 23, 2002 air attack on a crowded apartment block in Gaza City that assassinated the senior Hamas military leader, Salah Shehada, while also killing 15 civilians, 11 of them children, hours before a widely reported unilateral cease-fire declaration by the Fatah-linked Tanzim and Hamas, leading to the Hamas suicide bombing on August 4.

* Israel's assassination on December 26, 2002 of three prominent members from Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade while representatives from Fatah, Hamas and other factions were meeting in Cairo to formulate a cease-fire on Israeli civilians to last through the Israeli elections on January 28, leading to the Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade suicide bombing on January 5, 2003 that killed twenty-two Israelis.

Holy correlation Batman!:eek:

Oerdin
16-01-2009, 04:39:27
Originally posted by MOBIUS
Firstly, the UN itself utterly refutes Israel's claim that Hamas were firing from the building

Gee, you mean just like the UN utterly refuted firing occurred from the Palestinian run UN school? Yet once again the UN is shown to be talking out of its ass and their local Palestinian employees not only looked the other way as Hamas fired mortars from the school but also lied about then were caught lying.

That's happen so often many people no longer believe the UN's claims. Hamas does this all the time, the UN denies it all the time, and in the end they always are shown to be wrong. They're at best clueless.

Greg W
16-01-2009, 05:54:55
Originally posted by MOBIUS
You're right, perhaps Hamas wouldn't have launched the rockets if Israel hadn't broken the ceasefire in the first place with its assassination policy.

Perhaps Hamas wouldn't have launched the rockets if Israel had kept to its side of the ceasefire bargain by lowering a blockade whose only effect was to collectively punish all of Gaza.

No wonder the entire world (with moderate Jews at the forefront!!!) is turning against Israel as we speak - and you call ME one eyed...!?

If that is the case, then you and Oerdin are totally blind!:( The thing is, I am not one eyed. I have never stated that it is Israel's or the Palestinian's fault. I am merely stating that you blame EVERYTHING on Israel. According to you, the Palestinians sound like peace loving hippies being slaughtered by the war mongering Israelis.

As I said, the truth is somewhere in the middle.