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Resource Consumer
08-01-2009, 09:04:17
I could never quite get this Taylorism/Time and Motion stuff.

Why is it better to take the pot to the kettle and not the kettle to the pot?

Funko
08-01-2009, 09:08:01
The two journeys must use less energy, which probably means the weight of an empty pot plus a full pot is less than the weight of a full kettle plus the weight of a full kettle minus the amount of water you've left in the pot.

Plus, on a more practical level, the kettle needs a fixed heat supply and the pot doesn't.

King_Ghidra
08-01-2009, 10:51:08
what is the pot in this scenario? is it being filled from the kettle or filling the kettle?

MOBIUS
08-01-2009, 11:15:34
Is the kettle black?

protein
08-01-2009, 11:18:44
is this what scientists think about?

wow.

MoSe
08-01-2009, 11:39:56
Originally posted by MOBIUS
Is the kettle black?

and does it have fish in it???

MoSe
08-01-2009, 11:44:11
anyway, "If the kettle won't come to the pot, the pot will go to the kettle"

protein
08-01-2009, 11:50:38
wouldn't you have the pot on the counter next to the kettle?

...and isn't "better" subjective?

MoSe
08-01-2009, 11:54:48
Originally posted by protein
isn't "better" subjective?

protein, my kinsman in Relativism!

:love:

MDA
08-01-2009, 12:05:18
can you smoke a kettle?

Funko
08-01-2009, 12:16:59
Originally posted by protein
is this what scientists think about?

wow.

Scientists would think about filling a sphere of radius n from another sphere of radius N which start d apart in a vaccuum, this sounds like engineering to me.

MoSe
08-01-2009, 12:17:28
Originally posted by Resource Consumer
I could never quite get this Taylorism/Time and Motion stuff.


this reminds me of:

when I was about to turn 18 and was getting my first little jobs to earn some coins, offices used to hire young hands for their mailing chores: that is stuff like folding letters, inserting them into envelopes, applying address labels and stamps on the envelope, and the like (it was ~1980 and emailing had yet to catch on).

I began that way, and often got paid for the job, instead that by the hour, so the sooner I completed the assigned batch, the better

Soon I learned to strive for economising my movements, and the time a single task took me.
For instance, dropping a closed mail on the "done" pile while fetching an empty envelope with the same single movement of the hand, picking up an envelope so that I was already holding it in the right way to open-and-insert without having to shift the grab, organising the piles to minimize the swing of the arm, and so on

Later, when at the university I attended a course in "Economy and Organisation Basics", I learned that I was spontaneously applying the principles of Taylorism

:hmm:

Funko
08-01-2009, 12:18:26
Originally posted by protein
wouldn't you have the pot on the counter next to the kettle?

...and isn't "better" subjective?

In this case it's about making your factory more efficient

MoSe
08-01-2009, 12:24:54
Originally posted by Funko
this sounds like engineering to me.

F. W. Taylor was indeed a mechanical engineer

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Frederick_Winslow_Taylor_crop.jpg/200px-Frederick_Winslow_Taylor_crop.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Winslow_Taylor)

MoSe
08-01-2009, 12:28:54
Originally posted by Funko
Plus, on a more practical level, the kettle needs a fixed heat supply and the pot doesn't.

maybe in the future microwave technology will become so cheap and miniaturised that each pot will have its own MW embedded in its sides to heat the liquids in it, while getting energy wirelessly from a source in the room...

:cute:

Funko
08-01-2009, 12:32:05
At the moment the theoretical best for wireless energy transmission is 35% efficiency compared to close to 100% for a decent wire.

If someone is looking at making a process more efficient, I can't imagine using wireless energy will appeal very much, so I think we can discount that.

:beer:

protein
08-01-2009, 12:35:02
Originally posted by Funko
In this case it's about making your factory more efficient
making your factory more efficient might make the workers unhappy and the product less desirable. which is not making things better.

i should work for a trade union.

MoSe
08-01-2009, 12:45:19
Originally posted by Funko
If someone is looking at making a process more efficient, I can't imagine using wireless energy will appeal very much, so I think we can discount that. well, but a futuristic tech endeavour could be indeed "Efficient Wireless Energy"
:)

sounds like a SMAC Tech
:D

and anyway Taylorism is obsolete by now, the focus is on flexibility and individual satisfaction.
The comfort of a self-heating wireless pot would overcome the lesser energy efficiency from the end-user's PoW.
Only the kettle manifacturers would be discontented

MoSe
08-01-2009, 12:55:13
Originally posted by MDA
can you smoke a kettle?

lol

well, of course, if you mean to tarnish or blacken its outside by exposing it to wood smoke...

:cute:

Venom
08-01-2009, 15:27:20
Someone got a huge government grant to study this, didn't they?

Funko
08-01-2009, 15:46:41
Originally posted by protein
making your factory more efficient might make the workers unhappy and the product less desirable. which is not making things better.

i should work for a trade union.

I never said it'd make it better.

protein
08-01-2009, 15:58:35
i thought the question was "why is it better to take the pot to the kettle and no the kettle to the pot?"

i think it's best if you spend a good amount of time on a great cup of tea and stop worrying about what expends more energy and then you'll feel happier and be more productive.

protein
08-01-2009, 15:59:41
better still, quit your job, fly somewhere that they grow tea and have it there.

Funko
08-01-2009, 16:01:23
I didn't spend any time thinking about it. :)

I bet most people do put the mugs near the kettle when they make a cup of tea though.

protein
08-01-2009, 16:03:33
i'm not saying you did. am i coming across like i'm digging at you?

i have everything within arm's reach when cooking/making drinks/making music/playing games. it's easier.

Funko
08-01-2009, 16:11:07
Which is more efficient, fly me to the tea or fly the tea to me? ;)

MOBIUS
08-01-2009, 16:15:38
Depends how much tea you regularly drink.

MoSe
08-01-2009, 16:23:26
not mentioning having to fly your mug too

and flying cows if you take it with milk
and flying toasters if you like a toasted sandwich with your tea

protein
08-01-2009, 16:24:10
more efficient at making you lazy or more efficient at broadening your life experience?

MoSe
08-01-2009, 16:26:34
Originally posted by protein
i have everything within arm's reach when cooking/making drinks/making music/playing games. it's easier.

imagine how miserable would be the human race if men's arms wouldn't reach as far as their [own] penis...

:nervous:

protein
08-01-2009, 16:27:46
less energy would be expended.

Funko
08-01-2009, 16:49:40
Originally posted by MoSe
not mentioning having to fly your mug too

I can use a local drinking vessel.

King_Ghidra
09-01-2009, 13:23:18
a nuclear wessel

Immortal Wombat
09-01-2009, 19:21:30
a gin palace