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View Full Version : OK, so How Much Exactly do These Guys Take Home?


VetLegion_
04-09-2008, 16:24:06
I work with computers (that's vague, I know) and I thought I would compare what I make with what people in the same field make in USA.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/index.htm

It was easy enough to find the data. Now I need your help to interpret it.

In my country when we talk about salaries we always talk about net sums. If someone tells you "I earn $1000 a month" that is what he actually gets. The employer has to pay income tax on that sum, also mandatory health insurance, pension fund deductions and other taxes.

From what I understand, US salaries are always stated as gross amounts. Right?

So, for example, when it says that Software Development Engineer at Microsoft earns $92,064 annually, it's the gross amount?

How do I find out the net amount from that? I have no idea how much taxes people in Seattle have to pay. Can anyone help me with this?

JM^3
04-09-2008, 16:28:23
I would probably guess 30-40% goes to taxes/etc? This is assuming a nice house, I think.

JM

MoSe
04-09-2008, 16:30:27
isn't there an IRS site to check?

JM^3
04-09-2008, 16:51:10
My assumptions on that 30-40% number:

15-20% state+local
15-20% federal
<2% health
if you want to go into an IRA/etc retirement thing, there are probably some benefits (don't know how much), but you might need to do another 10%? just to take advantage of them

JM

Bob
04-09-2008, 16:54:47
call Microsoft

Provost Harrison
04-09-2008, 17:05:23
I often call Microsoft...

Bob
04-09-2008, 17:06:53
I often call IBM

MoSe
04-09-2008, 17:14:13
I Often Call IOC

Bob
04-09-2008, 17:16:46
Ich Bin Müde

Resource Consumer
04-09-2008, 17:27:51
I call them crap

Asher
04-09-2008, 18:44:16
Yes, it's gross in North America

Drekkus
04-09-2008, 18:48:34
are you dutch?

Asher
04-09-2008, 19:26:39
Do I look like I like wooden shoes up my ass?

Don't answer that.

Drekkus
04-09-2008, 19:33:22
Shoes? How many can you fit in there?

Actually i was asking the Vet guy, but thanks for the festive image

VetLegion_
04-09-2008, 20:05:44
I'm Croatian :)

Oerdin
05-09-2008, 00:02:23
The salaries in the US are all stated as gross because each of the 50 states has slightly different tax laws.

MoSe
05-09-2008, 07:37:38
actually, I had very few job interviews in my career (was mostly self-employed), but here the companies I talked with asked for gross both for previous and exepcted wages in their interview forms.
Only in smalltalk with friends and colleagues we use to state the net.

"If someone tells you "I earn $1000 a month" that is what he actually gets"
true indeed, but with the employer instead I agreed about the yearly gross

Nav
06-09-2008, 13:32:58
Salaries in the uk are always stated as gross.

That's cos if they were stated as net amounts we wouldn't feel as rich and spend less, thus forcing the government to go bankrupt and be bailed out by Roman Abramovich (by selling Ronaldo)

paiktis
06-09-2008, 20:31:02
vetty you talk about how much you are getting amongst yourselves because that's how it goes.

however if you're talking with an employer and fixing the sum of your salary you'll be talking in gross sum.

That's because the employer can't be bothered to calculate what your net salary will be. And because there are different insurance funds, each taking different sums. I'd assume it is the case with 3rd world croatia as well.


So it's one thing talking between friends, that's always the clear sum
and another fixing the pricewith the employer, that's always the gross sum.


There can't be a list with clear sums, not only beause of country specific differences but also because of insurance funds differences.

paiktis
06-09-2008, 20:32:22
anyway anything above 1500 euros clear a month is a good start for us balkan scum. we're not german factory workers.

(it's unbelievable BTW that bulgaria is EU and you're not)
happy for bulgaria don't get me wrong, but it means you have fucked up big time.

paiktis
06-09-2008, 20:49:49
and of course knowing what a seattle microsft worker gets (like who cares) isn't going to do you any good.

you'd also have to know how expensive his daily life is, so as to calculate how fucked you are.
but don't judge with america, judge with other european countries, it's more realistic and humane. you're a european country so you'll have more keep ups by health, social security etc than an american, also theoretically many more changes to not die on the street and to be slim.
judge with germany it's not scandinavia, it's not uganda. or with the EU middle range adjusted for everyday expences.
(and also since you're balkan, there's also the "black money" :D)

paiktis
06-09-2008, 21:00:11
btw i just got a cyprus euro coin. there's also the word "cyprus" in turkish.
Turkey is in the EU

Asher
07-09-2008, 00:50:42
Originally posted by paiktis
and of course knowing what a seattle microsft worker gets (like who cares) isn't going to do you any good.


One thing I've discovered is for the young computer professionals, there's not much of a concept of regional salaries. I've had friends up and live to Redmond (Microsoft) and Mountain View (Google) on a couple week's notice. The local Canadian companies are competing for good talent with the American companies in silicon valley, New York City, and the Seattle areas as well. So it matters very much what a guy in Seattle makes.

mr_B
07-09-2008, 07:42:13
you are soooooo schjmart

VetLegion_
07-09-2008, 11:27:31
Originally posted by Asher
One thing I've discovered is for the young computer professionals, there's not much of a concept of regional salaries. I've had friends up and live to Redmond (Microsoft) and Mountain View (Google) on a couple week's notice. The local Canadian companies are competing for good talent with the American companies in silicon valley, New York City, and the Seattle areas as well. So it matters very much what a guy in Seattle makes.

Yep. It's a small world for someone with skills which are in demand.

VetLegion_
07-09-2008, 11:35:34
Originally posted by paiktis
[B]and of course knowing what a seattle microsft worker gets (like who cares) isn't going to do you any good.

you'd also have to know how expensive his daily life is,

Well of course. A software engineer in Seattle is payed much more than I am in terms of dollars, but against that I have cheap health care (I'm going to fix a tooth tommorow, won't cost me a thing, in the US it would set me back a couple of hundred $ from what I hear), low crime, quick access to any European citiy should I wish to visit it...

The dollar figure by itself doesn't tell me everything, but it is telling anyway. I'd triple or quadruple my income by moving to the US and doing the same things I do now. Would it be worth it? I don't know.

VetLegion_
07-09-2008, 11:40:44
Originally posted by paiktis
[B]anyway anything above 1500 euros clear a month is a good start for us balkan scum. we're not german factory workers.

Germany factory workers aren't that well payed any more. China made sure of that (BTW I went to China for the Olympics, great country, still poor).

In Croatia the average NET monthly salary is 600 Euros. I earn more but it is still small money compared to what I could earn abroad.

(it's unbelievable BTW that bulgaria is EU and you're not)

Yeah! But soon, we shall be too.

happy for bulgaria don't get me wrong, but it means you have fucked up big time.

The economy is going well, so I'm not complaining. But it is common knowledge that Bulgaria and Romania weren't ready. However once you let Greece in standards are so low that you have to let anyone in :cute:

Asher
07-09-2008, 19:44:59
Originally posted by VetLegion_
Well of course. A software engineer in Seattle is payed much more than I am in terms of dollars, but against that I have cheap health care (I'm going to fix a tooth tommorow, won't cost me a thing, in the US it would set me back a couple of hundred $ from what I hear), low crime, quick access to any European citiy should I wish to visit it...

I'm certain that every software engineer in Seattle has dental insurance through their employers, so it wouldn't cost them anything either.

KrazyHorse
08-09-2008, 17:50:58
Assuming that Washington State is similar to MD, and going from my wife's paycheque the gov't taxes (federal, state and local), FICA (social security+medicare), plus employee contributions to employer health care insurance will take out in the high 30% range.

In other words, for high-middle incomes (60k to 100k pa) based around employment income, multiply whatever they give you by ~0.62 or so. That will be your take-home amount. That does not include whatever contributions you choose to make to a retirement plan (my wife gets 7% of her gross salary deposited tax-free into an IRA on top of her regular paycheque; she also gets employer matching of additional contributions up to 600$ IIRC, and she takes full advantage of that).

KrazyHorse
08-09-2008, 17:57:02
For much of the high-middle employment income range federal, state and local taxes are fairly flat.

Above 120k or so (IIRC) FICA contributions disappear, so the marginal rate actually drops at that point (~7.2%). Also, FICA contributions are matched by employers, so (bearing in mind that the incidence of a payroll tax is almost entirely on employees) this is a significant gift to highly-paid professionals (almost 15% marginally).

Asher
08-09-2008, 18:45:45
You going to play fantasy hockey this year KH?

Oerdin
08-09-2008, 20:05:35
Originally posted by paiktis
anyway anything above 1500 euros clear a month is a good start for us balkan scum. we're not german factory workers.

(it's unbelievable BTW that bulgaria is EU and you're not)
happy for bulgaria don't get me wrong, but it means you have fucked up big time.

What? That's less then $3000 a month. I know illegal Mexicans who make more then that.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
08-09-2008, 20:22:47
So with KH's rate and a 1.20 rate of $/€, the 92k $ gross would be about 48k € net or 3400-4000 € monthly. Remaining difficulty is to adjust for some public services and transfers, but for order of magnitude it's ok. Work hours shouldn't differ too much in that sector?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
08-09-2008, 20:26:32
Originally posted by Oerdin
What? That's less then $3000 a month. I know illegal Mexicans who make more then that.

And that's despite all the tax they have to pay!

VetLegion_
08-09-2008, 20:56:46
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
So with KH's rate and a 1.20 rate of $/€, the 92k $ gross would be about 48k € net or 3400-4000 € monthly. Remaining difficulty is to adjust for some public services and transfers, but for order of magnitude it's ok. Work hours shouldn't differ too much in that sector?

Yes, I calculated with €/$ = 1.4 and got that the net take-home amount is about 3400 euros monthly (~$4500).

That's excellent by Croatian standards (I estimate that the average programmer here gets about €1000), but it shouldn't be atypical in Austria. I know people in Vienna who work in IT and earn much more.

With regards to working hours, I think that the fact that Americans work more than Europeans holds here too.

VetLegion_
08-09-2008, 21:01:12
Originally posted by Oerdin
What? That's less then $3000 a month. I know illegal Mexicans who make more then that.

Aren't immigrants payed about the minimum wage (or less)? If the minimum wage is $5,75 per hour (as I seem to recall) the poor fellow would have to work a whooping 522 hours to get $3000. That's over 70% of all hours in a month ... :hmm:

I'm not saying that you don't know any Mexican illegals who get that much, but I doubt that it's the norm.

MoSe
09-09-2008, 10:41:05
LOL, I know that I'm a dork, that I got my degree at 35 but I am a low-skilled IT personnel as I never have really put in practice what I studied, which is by now obsolete.

I got in this company in 2001, with the task of managing the IT Help Desk outsourcer, so , not exactly a technical job, but with the responsabilty of a service and 3rd-party minions.
Then due to a merger (actually we got acquired) I got reassigned to the Provisioning of Data Connection Services for Corporate Customer segment.
I'm just an operator now, senior, but operator. We receive the details of a service that got sold to a company with all its options and components. Basing on that I put together a diagram of all the bits needed to build the customers vpn (private network), I gather the needed info about equipment to order, IP addresses plans for the network etc., and dispatch the tasks to all the colleagues who configure the circuits and backbone servers, and/or the external providers for the Local Loops, fiberoptics and the like. I the organise and manage our technical personnel intervention at the customer premises to test and activate the service.
I indulged in these boring details only because I didn't know how to better specify the classification of my job. Nothing deeply technical, just a medium-low skill gear to make the ends meet between the ordering of a data connectivity service and its delivery.

Fine.
When I got in as IT Help Desk manager, I got ~30k€ as yearly gross. It was a definite improvement wrt to my previous "Excel teacher" self-employed income. I got the job becuase I asked a bit less than other 5 applicants, who asked for 35k€ (I had got insider infos...). For sure had I not obtained my albeit belated degree, I would have had to lower my requests (down to 20-25k€).
When we got acquired by another TLC company, in part public-owned, we realised that their personnel slaries were lower than ours on average, so the natural increase and advancement of those who came from our acquired company got stopped, waiting that the others grew to attain a balance.
When I got reassigned, I actually found myself to do the same job as collegues with less seniority and without a degree, who get significantly less than me.

I get ~36k€ gross now, this becomes ~26k€ net.
26/12 should yield ~2150€ net per month
Actually there's a "cute" habit here, that the company "holds" a part of the employers wages for the company's finalncial profit, and gives it to the employees with a few months delay, depending on the specific industrial sector national contract frame agreed with the unions.
This means in my case for instance that I get 1900+€ net each month. The "withheld" ~3k€ get to me as an additional "13th month" wage just before Xmas, and as a "production bonus" in may for the remainder.

My undergradauted colleagues who perform my same tasks (albeit new products and services, top customers and the most intricate networks are assigned to me) get 1200/1300€ per month (that's more than 30% less than me!). My direct responsible, not a boss but the undergraduated too "group coordinator" or our workgroup of 6, gets I guess ~1500. A colleague with Project Manager responsibilities whom I refer to for the planning and deadlines of my activities, also gets less than me, ~1600 too.

I know, I'm an ambitionless low-skilled mollusk without a life to spend my earnings in.
Still, colleagues with a much deeper technical background and greater organisational responsibilities, hover in the range of 2000/2500 monthly net(*).
And with all the employers cuts (often masked as "forced relocations" from Milan to Rome, or the alienation of a branch) many of those colleagues sent CVS all around, but 90% of them only got offered jobs with a significantly inferior income. That's to say that it's not just me, but the current situation of our TLC/IT market.

____
EDIT
(*) always multiply by ~13.7 to get the yearly net, for what I explaind above
PS: in USD, that's currently for me a yearly net of $ 36500-37000, and a gross of $ 50500-51000

Bob
09-09-2008, 10:48:56
You're right. You're a dork.


And experience (being old) beats IT-skills (being educated), at least on payment day. That's why they call you senior developer rather than skilled developer.

Today I had to explain a top-experienced (very old) programmer what x ** y means :rolleyes:

MoSe
09-09-2008, 10:51:18
is it like f**k?

Bob
09-09-2008, 10:53:01
No, I like explaining even better

MoSe
09-09-2008, 10:58:30
that's your narcisistic side.
narcissiscticitsticistic.
whatever

Tizzy
09-09-2008, 11:00:52
It's not as good as xyzzy

Bob
09-09-2008, 11:01:52
nazistic

MoSe
09-09-2008, 11:05:52
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
a 1.20 rate of $/€,


???

isn't it €/$=1.4xxx these days???
(i.e. $/€ ~= 0.71)

Bob
09-09-2008, 11:08:25
Not for Austreuros

MoSe
09-09-2008, 11:17:35
Euröst

Bob
09-09-2008, 11:20:29
AEIOUro

MoSe
09-09-2008, 11:27:15
what's your income in trips to the pub?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
09-09-2008, 11:45:09
Originally posted by MoSe
???

isn't it €/$=1.4xxx these days???
(i.e. $/€ ~= 0.71)

ppp

Dyl Ulenspiegel
09-09-2008, 11:45:50
Originally posted by MoSe
Euröst

Only the swiss accept Röstis.

Bob
09-09-2008, 12:42:32
Ah, the Röstischwur!

Dyl Ulenspiegel
09-09-2008, 14:43:45
Röstibank, Röstigraben, Röstifant

Bob
09-09-2008, 15:37:41
Schmarrn

Dyl Ulenspiegel
09-09-2008, 16:29:00
Unterwasserrösti

paiktis
09-09-2008, 20:49:46
One thing I marginally like about a "free (slavery) economy" is that if you're willing to bust your ass off you can earn money.
But moving to america is a bit drastic and is a life altering decision. croatia shouldn't be so crap and america is not what it was for after ww2 europeans.
so definitely no.

paiktis
09-09-2008, 20:56:39
anyway a friend of mine who had the same skill as you (IT computers whatever) moved to holland. he didn't like it and never said the money was better. but he did meet a great dutch girl and they're going to marry now and expect a child.
so leave if you want to, for a change but not to earn money.
that's what's great about life. you never ever know what's coming your way. that's the greatness of it. people who have a purpose are the ones screwed up.
and money is the least important thing

Funko
10-09-2008, 07:43:11
Yeah. :beer:

Bob
10-09-2008, 08:45:23
Money is the least important thing in life if you own plenty of it

Funko
10-09-2008, 09:01:30
Dunno, have seen 'happiness' studies where dirt poor subsistence farmers come out happier than multi-millionaires.

Assuming you have food and shelter, family/relationships and community seem to be the factors that make people happy.

Bob
10-09-2008, 09:07:10
Good old Maslow, his pyramid is powered by money these days

MoSe
10-09-2008, 09:10:50
Originally posted by Funko
family/relationships and community seem to be the factors that make people happy.

I met my community on the inernet

Funko
10-09-2008, 09:13:42
Bit of an arsehole.

Bob
10-09-2008, 09:13:56
time to define MoSelow's Nerd Pyramid

Funko
10-09-2008, 09:17:20
I meant that Maslow was a bit of an arsehole.

Can't beat a good x-posting. :beer:

Bob
10-09-2008, 09:20:33
MoSe is in fact a very nice person

King_Ghidra
10-09-2008, 09:24:39
but infinitely unhappy

MoSe
10-09-2008, 09:29:57
Last time I saw a psychologist she said:

- You keep eating because there must be something missing in your life, it's too empty

I replied:
- what's missing in my life is emptiness, it's not empty enough

and I started by canceling the sessions with her

Bob
10-09-2008, 09:34:21
eat more!