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View Full Version : How will Europe respond to the Russian invasion of Georgia?


TCO
08-08-2008, 19:31:49
We're busy elsewhere. Just wondered what you all with your musketeers and temples and palaces were going to do.

Asher
08-08-2008, 19:34:23
I believe history has shown that ignoring aggression until it is on a large scale is prudent. Right?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
08-08-2008, 19:41:22
Where's elsewhere?

Asher
08-08-2008, 19:50:46
Afghanistan, Iraq, Portage la Prairie Manitoba.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
08-08-2008, 19:55:36
No gymnastics forum?

mr_B
08-08-2008, 20:49:10
doooooooooooooooo di doooooooo
and heeej TCO get the fok out of CG and land back into poly poly poly poly will you

btw i don't hate you, i just think that you are a polynerd who thinks he know it all

bye bye and take tje other polys wizzz you will you.

btw2 i asked fff for at leat 6 times who and what you were/are and he answered: just a polynerd

TCO
08-08-2008, 22:32:36
don't answer a question with a question.

Bob
08-08-2008, 22:33:03
I think a boy(!)cott of russian gymnastics forums will teach them!

Shining1
09-08-2008, 14:45:19
Iraq is fucked up *because* the military only threw 100 000 guys in there.

It's no excuse whatsoever for sitting anything out.

Koshko
09-08-2008, 20:50:46
This is especially true considering that we had over 500,000 people for freaking Desert Storm.

Koshko
09-08-2008, 20:52:25
Also USA shenanigans has a major role in this, because there just can't be an international incident anywhere without our involvement.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
09-08-2008, 20:56:56
Another "Great Game" episode.

Sir Penguin
09-08-2008, 21:35:36
Too bad for them Batman is American.

SP

Dyl Ulenspiegel
09-08-2008, 21:54:14
What about Twatman?

Oerdin
10-08-2008, 00:33:09
Definitely Austrian. :p

TCO
10-08-2008, 03:28:59
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article4488503.ece

Greg W
10-08-2008, 03:37:35
Originally posted by Koshko
Also USA shenanigans has a major role in this, because there just can't be an international incident anywhere without our involvement. Unless they just don't care about the place or can't get any money out of it. Like East Timor.

Koshko
10-08-2008, 03:54:01
Eh well no one cares about cases like that sadly.

TCO
10-08-2008, 05:04:45
Originally posted by Greg W
Unless they just don't care about the place or can't get any money out of it. Like East Timor.

Can't you guys have some kind of sphere? I would prefer that we are not the policeman of evertyhing and just get involved selectively.

TCO
10-08-2008, 05:05:51
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08092008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/raping_georgia_123664.htm?page=2

Above article on "sides" or on US action is debatable (although I think the Russians more in the wrong). But regardless military analysis is interesting.

The Mad Monk
10-08-2008, 05:32:31
georgia has OOOIIIILLLL...

Koshko
10-08-2008, 05:55:22
Actually Georgia does not have oil. It has oil pipelines from the Caspian Sea running through it.

Asher
10-08-2008, 05:57:07
Georgia is a bunch of pussies. They're backing out.

TCO
10-08-2008, 06:21:14
They're getting obliterated. It's no surprise.

Russia suckered them into the whole thing. No way, the beuarocratic, fucked up Russians can move coordinated air-ground-naval forces that fast with that little fucking up, without planning the thing well in advance. They are executing a war plan and were prepped and ready to go. And provoked the thing deliberatley with the shelling into Georgia.

Now they will move a little closer to annexation of Ossettia and the other parts of Georgia that are qausi-independant.

Saakshvillil should have held off or planned his own little escapade better.

Oerdin
10-08-2008, 12:07:12
To bad the Georgians couldn't have bombed any bridges to keep the Russians out.

Oerdin
10-08-2008, 12:08:56
BTW the Russians aren't as hard up for cash as they were in the 90's. The oil firms have been renationalized and now they have lots of hard currency to keep military equipment running.

MOBIUS
10-08-2008, 12:15:48
Originally posted by TCO
Can't you guys have some kind of sphere? I would prefer that we are not the policeman of evertyhing and just get involved selectively.

You mean only going for illegitimate fuck-ups like Iraq, or clusterfucks like Somalia...?:cute:

Shining1
10-08-2008, 13:16:16
Russia has oil. High time the U.S.A invaded. =D

Scabrous Birdseed
10-08-2008, 13:16:26
Actually East Timor was a double interest for the US: Suharto was a key ally in the region and there was some sort of natural resource I can't remember, possibly natural gas.

TCO
10-08-2008, 15:58:11
So, you are chiding us for not being more around the world taking care of our interests? What is this? Why doesn't the EU get it's act together tand go patrol a hemisphere or something. You all can have Africa.

TCO
10-08-2008, 15:59:04
Some cool stuff on the web:

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/08/the-explosive-c.php (love the maps)

http://www.slate.com/id/2191588/entry/2191589/

Greg W
10-08-2008, 16:07:37
Originally posted by TCO
Can't you guys have some kind of sphere? I would prefer that we are not the policeman of evertyhing and just get involved selectively. So the US sphere is what, exactly? Anywhere with oil?

As I said, I guess it's just the selective nature of things. The so called "sphere" seems to be very subjective to a furriner.

From memory, East Timor does have massive amounts of Natural Gas, yeah.

TCO
10-08-2008, 16:39:57
I'm being acerbic when I talk about spheres.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
10-08-2008, 16:55:41
Originally posted by TCO
So, you are chiding us for not being more around the world taking care of our interests? What is this? Why doesn't the EU get it's act together tand go patrol a hemisphere or something. You all can have Africa.

Spheres are so 20th century.

LoD
10-08-2008, 16:57:25
Oil patches are the new spheres.

Bob
10-08-2008, 18:21:44
spheres rocked my ass when I was a school boy

Dyl Ulenspiegel
10-08-2008, 18:23:11
gymnastics spheres?

Bob
10-08-2008, 18:26:39
yeah, at the Gymnasium.

Koshko
10-08-2008, 20:00:13
Basically we are looking at the Cold War v2.0. This isn't the first recent incident in some way involving the US vs Russia.

Greg W
11-08-2008, 01:32:46
Damn, and I thought v2.0 would be against China. :(

Oerdin
11-08-2008, 02:18:00
Naw, the first two are always with the same country. The Russians would feel slighted if Germany got two rounds but they only got one.

Koshko
11-08-2008, 03:46:54
Originally posted by Greg W
Damn, and I thought v2.0 would be against China. :(


Nah. That's a different war. It will get a new name. Probably World War 3.0.

TCO
11-08-2008, 04:59:48
Originally posted by Oerdin
BTW the Russians aren't as hard up for cash as they were in the 90's. The oil firms have been renationalized and now they have lots of hard currency to keep military equipment running.

I'm not alluding to the incredible extents of rust and wastage of the post CW 90s. I still think in terms of CW stuff really. The Russians have never been incredible experts in expiditionary warfare and rapid staff planning and response. Plus there is just a lot of stuff going down. That whole thing is way to slick for a bearocratic outfit like the Russkis to get it down except for planning it.

Bob
11-08-2008, 05:16:29
That's not a good song

Drekkus
11-08-2008, 07:08:54
just an old sweet song
keeps Georgia on my mind

Funko
11-08-2008, 08:05:19
If Russia makes it to Atlanta, we'll send over a peacekeeping force.

mr_B
11-08-2008, 08:22:51
Originally posted by TCO
We're busy elsewhere. Just wondered what you all with your musketeers and temples and palaces were going to do. AMERICA FOCK U!!!

the "peacekeepers"

Dyl Ulenspiegel
11-08-2008, 08:25:15
Originally posted by Funko
If Russia makes it to Atlanta, we'll send over a peacekeeping force.

To assist in the burning of Atlanta.

mr_B
11-08-2008, 08:32:59
or Atlantis

Dyl Ulenspiegel
11-08-2008, 08:35:57
Underwater burning

mr_B
11-08-2008, 08:44:58
smoke on the water YAAAAYYY

Bob
11-08-2008, 08:47:58
Burn

Drekkus
11-08-2008, 10:17:03
Originally posted by mr_B
smoke on the water YAAAAYYY Smoke under water!!! Did you know that that is actually a very easy song to play on the guitar(hero)?

mr_B
11-08-2008, 10:20:09
no need to call me hero on thos forum Drekkus.

Bob
11-08-2008, 10:22:58
No need to call him

Drekkus
11-08-2008, 10:33:44
call him in my life
call him any, any, anytime

MDA
11-08-2008, 15:18:45
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
georgia has OOOIIIILLLL...


BLACK GOLD!

GEORGIA TEA!

King_Ghidra
12-08-2008, 10:45:59
it's all over! journos can go home now

Funko
12-08-2008, 10:47:26
Russia go through to the semi-final, Georgia into the repechage.

Funko
12-08-2008, 11:03:47
Just listening to Bush saying it's unacceptable for a country to invade a sovereign state in the 21st Century - with absolutely no sense of irony at all!

MDA
12-08-2008, 11:12:27
that's why he threw in the "democratically elected leader" bit

if it was a hereditary monarchy or something like that, it would have been fine :rolleyes:

Funko
12-08-2008, 11:13:45
Are you threatening us? The North Sea is running out of oil, we're really not worth it. :nervous:

King_Ghidra
12-08-2008, 11:42:22
on a related topic here are some thoughts which this affair has brought to the front of my mind.

1) russia using this incident to send a message out about its feelings on the NATO joining stuff. obviously they're anti the expansion of nato, and they're making an example of georgia and raising questions about nationhood, alliances etc. the best question i heard raised was 'what if georgia had been a NATO member?' the USA had pushed for that very thing and it was the sensible voices that went against that by citing the fact they had unresolved border conflicts.

2) there was a lot of speculation that western diplomatic efforts were largely irrelevant, because russia has money and oil and thus western disapproval is mainly limited to just that. yet nevertheless the russians have defused the situation, so they obivously feel they have something to gain by playing it straight, even if it's only goodwill. imho they are masters at brinkmanship and diplomacy.

3) citizenship, nationhood and legality.
these things seem to get very complicated when you have a large number of foreign nationals in your country. russia seems to be effectively going for a civ-style cultural capture in ossetia by handing out passports.

4) rise of nations
in the last twenty years, with a single superpower, i think national competition and patriotism and suchlike have taken quite a backfoot to other cultural concepts e.g. the global village (whether that is a real thing in a meaningful way or not) - but i get the feeling we are heading for, or already in, another macro-national focused era. the rise and ambition of china, the return to power of russia, i think this is going to give us a lot more national showiness and competitiveness on a global scale of the kind we saw in the cold war. these countries want to be superpowers again, and not just economic ones, military, political ones.

i've got no interest in this national bullshit. i've spent most of my adult life throwing off the ideas of patriotism and blind national loyalty that i somehow ended up with after my youth. and i really don't want to be painted as an evil or arrogant westerner to someone else

i wish china the best of luck with the country's direction. despite the human rights blah blah we hear, i have no doubt many chinese are far better off than they have been in the last 30, 50, 100 years. the best result is the upward curve to continue in all areas of their lives, including the gradual advance of libertarian govt/media. but what really worries me is that if the game becomes about butting heads with russia and the us/eu, then those kind of things start to take a backseat to the willy waving. we've already seen russia reinstate the red square military parade. that kind of emphasis leads nations back the wrong way imho.

btw i'm not saying the single superpower usa world was a utopia, obviously not, but at least the lack of a rival took the national focus away from the world's broader efforts in sport, the arts, science etc.

of course some might argue the cold war was a brilliant thing that actually motivated many advances and kept peace on a large scale or something. i don't know. personally i find the idea that something is only worth celebrating because it puts your nose ahead of someone else to be poor. and i just have this gut feeling that nationalism and national competition generally motivates a lot of waste on irrelevant stuff, and at the very least engenders the wrong thoughts in people's minds about other human beings.

those are some confused thoughts i know. but that's what intenret forums are for right

Dyl Ulenspiegel
12-08-2008, 11:58:17
Originally posted by Funko
Are you threatening us? The North Sea is running out of oil, we're really not worth it. :nervous:

He's talking Norway or Saudi Arabia. Oh wait, not Saudi Arabia.

Funko
12-08-2008, 12:02:35
Originally posted by King_Ghidra


1) russia using this incident to send a message out about its feelings on the NATO joining stuff. obviously they're anti the expansion of nato, and they're making an example of georgia and raising questions about nationhood, alliances etc. the best question i heard raised was 'what if georgia had been a NATO member?' the USA had pushed for that very thing and it was the sensible voices that went against that by citing the fact they had unresolved border conflicts.

Yeah, that is a big deal. Theoretically NATO would have been at war with Russia but there's no way NATO could actually afford a war with Russia, militarily, politically or financially no matter what it's current superpower status might be. I think Russia would know that and I'm not sure it'd have really changed it's actions.

mr_B
12-08-2008, 12:12:06
Originally posted by Funko
Just listening to Bush saying it's unacceptable for a country to invade a sovereign state in the 21st Century - with absolutely no sense of irony at all! :lol:

Bob
12-08-2008, 14:16:03
nuke those fuckers and tibet too

Funko
12-08-2008, 14:29:07
You know tibet backwards is tebit.

MDA
12-08-2008, 14:32:26
Originally posted by Funko
Are you threatening us? The North Sea is running out of oil, we're really not worth it. :nervous:

all your fish and chips will be ours!

Funko
12-08-2008, 14:33:08
All your bass are belong to us?

Greg W
12-08-2008, 14:42:24
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
2) there was a lot of speculation that western diplomatic efforts were largely irrelevant, because russia has money and oil and thus western disapproval is mainly limited to just that. yet nevertheless the russians have defused the situation, so they obivously feel they have something to gain by playing it straight, even if it's only goodwill. imho they are masters at brinkmanship and diplomacy.I heard that Russia had used an interesting argument. That if NATO (or was it the US? Forget the details to be honest) could back Serbia's civil war of independence, then why could Russia not back the independence of two regions in Georgia?

Which is kind of a hard one to argue against.

mr_B
12-08-2008, 14:52:02
All you Bas Op belong to us

MoSe
12-08-2008, 15:04:04
Originally posted by Funko
You know tibet backwards is tebit.

that's a serious case of MoSeDeprivation, I advise U2C a doooodidoctor, A-SAP

Dyl Ulenspiegel
12-08-2008, 16:02:03
Originally posted by Greg W
That if NATO (or was it the US? Forget the details to be honest) could back Serbia's civil war of independence


Kosovo's.

Greg W
12-08-2008, 16:07:43
See, couldn't even get that bit right. :lol:

Funko
12-08-2008, 16:09:09
We are very shocked.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
12-08-2008, 16:24:54
SHOCKED

Greg W
12-08-2008, 16:49:09
Shows how much attention I pay to foreign affairs. :cute:

mr_G
12-08-2008, 17:35:47
Originally posted by Dyl Ulenspiegel
Kosovo's. Dutchbat did some great things there.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
12-08-2008, 17:37:24
Dutch batman?

Drekkus
12-08-2008, 17:38:14
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
it's all over! journos can go home now too late

mr_G
12-08-2008, 17:40:15
too late too late said winnetoo
the semen is allready into

MDA
12-08-2008, 19:07:04
Originally posted by Funko
All your bass are belong to us?

:lol: that's... horrible

TCO
12-08-2008, 20:14:45
Interesting comments by Ghidra.

Dyl Ulenspiegel
12-08-2008, 22:16:14
:brwncard:

Koshko
13-08-2008, 00:27:51
Originally posted by Funko
Just listening to Bush saying it's unacceptable for a country to invade a sovereign state in the 21st Century - with absolutely no sense of irony at all!


He's good at that. Check him telling Bob Costas that he doesn't think America has any problems in a recent interview.

Bob
13-08-2008, 06:50:10
Originally posted by TCO
Interesting comments by Ghidra. :lol:

King_Ghidra
13-08-2008, 08:10:20
:D

mr_B
13-08-2008, 08:11:57
Interesting post by TCO

Drekkus
13-08-2008, 08:44:27
Originally posted by mr_G
Dutchbat did some great things there. That was in Bosnia :lol:

Bob
13-08-2008, 09:31:54
Good old Bosnia, what happened to her?

Drekkus
13-08-2008, 10:22:41
Didn't she marry Herzegovina?

Dyl Ulenspiegel
13-08-2008, 10:27:35
Herzogin Ova!

Bob
13-08-2008, 16:18:39
All hail Emperor Serb!

Dyl Ulenspiegel
13-08-2008, 16:20:37
BURP BURP