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protein
22-07-2008, 11:12:16
anyone see it last night? the worst band in the world with the worst prospects and terrible track record given thousands of pounds by people who have absolutely no idea how the music industry works now.

worst investment evah!

Funko
22-07-2008, 11:13:53
You forgot to say they also had the worst name.

Hamfatter.

They have got tons of publicity out of it already, they did a really good pitch, knew all their numbers etc. but I still never thought they'd get an investment.

protein
22-07-2008, 11:17:12
it was for a return of album sales too! if i was there i'd have been screaming "noooo! noooo! nobody buys albums anymore! stop! noooo!"

Funko
22-07-2008, 11:23:37
It was all revenue off the album including radio play singles etc. But still...

The others all wanted a percentage of all revenue including live at least.

Funko
22-07-2008, 11:29:00
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/07/dragons_den_reappears_this_eve.html

I liked this comment

And even if the music were fantastic, the public is still going to be hard pressed to get excited about a band who make the Levellers look like Take That. Peter Jones cleary saw an opportunity to get involved with a band that he could pose with in publicity photos and be the best looking.

protein
22-07-2008, 11:29:27
yup. the others would have stood to maybe make some money back.

it's going out of fashion now but lots of bands signed recently are on a "360 deal" which means the record company makes money out of all of your revenue.

we were one of the last old fashioned record deals before 360 came in. the thought of the record company making money from publishing, gigs, tshirts, tv appearances etc makes my skin crawl.

Funko
22-07-2008, 11:38:22
Problem is for the record companies though, if they can't make money back on album or digital sales because sales are so low how can they get their investment back?

Funko
22-07-2008, 11:39:30
Which is even more reason why it was a bad investment.

Debaser
22-07-2008, 11:52:33
Originally posted by protein
we were one of the last old fashioned record deals before 360 came in. the thought of the record company making money from publishing, gigs, tshirts, tv appearances etc makes my skin crawl.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm not trying to be funny, but don't the record companies book and pay for the gigs, pay for the tshirts, and arrange and sometimes pay for the tv appearances?

Doesn't strike me as that unfair that they want their cut of the profits when essentially they facilitate all that stuff happening.

protein
22-07-2008, 18:12:10
no, the booking agent books the gigs, the band pays for the gigs and the tshirts and the management arrange tv slots.

the record company give you an advance set against future record sales which the band and management spend to make the record, promote it, tour it etc. for that initial investment the record company make you work to pay it back and then after you have paid it back, take more than half the revenue from sales from every single record until you are out of contract. i think that's more than enough.

lots of bands are contracted for two albums, do one, don't make a huge amount of money but make a big fanbase. then make a new album but deliver an absolutely shit one to the label to get dropped (and contractually get the money for the next album anyway) then present the real album to another label, get another record deal and a small advance and then they have a huge amount of capital to play with and promote their gigs and album.

this is what The Music did. i think it's quite a cool business model.

or even better, rush out your albums, remain hot property and then start your own label ala dizzy rascal/streets/portishead.

Debaser
22-07-2008, 18:45:34
Ah, ok, didn't know that management and the record company were totally separate like that. So what you're saying is you could be sitting on your bus one day photoshopping up a sexy tshirt design, you could order 200 prints over the internet to be delivered to somewhere you know you'll be in a couple of weeks, then pick them up and sell them all at gigs/over myspace etc, and the record company would want half the profit? Yeah, seems a bit rude.

Debaser
22-07-2008, 18:47:38
That said, if a band signs up for that then they can't really complain about it too much, but it does seem a cunty business model.

protein
22-07-2008, 20:05:39
i think that if you do sign the 360 deal, the record company would want to be very much more involved in the whole gig and t shirt thing and make sure that the profits were maximized.

yeah, i was interested about the whole management and record company thing. when i think of manufactured bands i think of record companies inventing them, but really it's managers that create acts like that, record companies are just interested in any act that will shift units. the more clout the manager, the more likely the record deal.

that's why i think ok tokyo will probably end up with a deal.